What Keeps Us Here?

[theuproar]

I'd like to hear you share your opinions/stories about why you stay with your BPD partner.  There are several reasons.  One is that I believe knowing your purpose in enduring a difficult relationship can be the fundamental basis/ontology of bettering it.  You are choosing this inherently troublesome path and you have power in your choice.  This will help you become more rooted and stable for your partner.

Two, I want to hear your stories because it might lend some validation and legitimacy to my own.  I constantly question everything because I believe that is the intelligent thing to do, and this of course includes my r/s.

Three, I often hear from therapists, psychiatrists, and counselors that only a person who is sick themselves would want to enter into a r/s like the one you'll have with a pwBPD.  Desiring a person with this disorder must mean there's something wrong with you.

I'm really looking forward to hearing your thoughts.   

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[theuproar]

For me, I don't always have an explanation.  I am constantly under attack by her.  It is exhausting (she of course says I'm exhausting, as well).  But I stay and have no intention of leaving anytime soon.

Most importantly, I really, really love this human.  She is hands-down the most beautiful woman I have ever seen.  She is wildly creative and intelligent in this really defying-convention kind of way.  She takes risks, loves adventure, and is very loving to her friends.  Our life goals are almost identical, as well.

I also stay because I see a person that is very, very misunderstood and has had a horrible life.  I want to be the one thing in her life that's constant - the light that never goes out.  She deserves this, even at her worst (and I've been through her worst with her, still stuck around).

My therapist has suggested that maybe I am playing out traumatic dramas or patterns from my childhood, and while there may be a nugget of truth in there, there is zero part of BPD that I'm enjoying.  So I don't think her theory of me finding familiarity and comfort in this is true, although I did grow up having dysfunctional familial and romantic relationship because of mental illness.  What I will say, though, as far as pathology goes, is I do experience quite a bit of anxiety with the thought of being without her, and even just being alone in general.

[Sandb2015]

Good afternoon the uproar,

First, it’s been explained to me that somewhere in our youth, we had chaos, trauma or abuse and our minds become wired for it, perhaps looking for a rs that fits our wiring. Imagine your real dream rs with someone other than your current, perfect, getting more love, attention and acceptance than you could ever want.

Ask yourself an honest question after imagining that perfection, does it almost feel uncomfortable? Unobtainable, fantasy?Not for us?


I’ve been viciously thrown out, discarded during a 4 year period and than on 12/19, really thrown out. I’ve been fighting ever since being invited to see her, popping up unannounced, cast away, threatened, welcomed and blocked, devalued and crushed, mix and replay... .

I’m a calm guy, normally charismatic, social, approachable, confident, not easily rattled, logical, considerate.

Now I can’t even look people in the face, a shadow of who I am, I didn’t lose it. Panic attacks, crying, nightmares of her being intimate with someone else. I wake to overwhelming depression, anger and hamster wheel thinking the second my mind wakes up before I even open my eyes.  Torture. I know it will get better, I try to focus on that, sometimes works like a bandaid on a heart attack, I’m doing what I can.

I don’t blame my rs, it did bring out unhealthy things in myself that had a lot to do with how I feel now, I can help that, I can be better just for me.

I have my hope that she may come around enough to join me in getting better so we can have a healthy relationship.

I can’t do what I was doing before, I won’t waste getting better to sacrifice that just to have my love by my side.

I love her and I have hope because I’m determined. Only with change, I realistically know she may not come around

[theuproar]

Good afternoon the uproar,

First, it’s been explained to me that somewhere in our youth, we had chaos, trauma or abuse and our minds become wired for it, perhaps looking for a rs that fits our wiring. Imagine your real dream rs with someone other than your current, perfect, getting more love, attention and acceptance than you could ever want.

Ask yourself an honest question after imagining that perfection, does it almost feel uncomfortable? Unobtainable, fantasy?Not for us?

Responding to this, yeah I've been told by my therapist that I grew up in an abusive environment, although I don't agree with that assessment.  Things were weird, sure, because my mother and other family members were/are very mentally ill, and I had one or two very severe physically abusive events.  I still don't view myself as a victim, though.  My therapist's theory, though, is that in staying with my pwBPD, I'm replaying these dysfunctional scripts over and over because it's "comfortable".  That's where I strongly disagree.  Nothing about my partner is comfortable.

That said, though, re: your question about perfection, normalcy is a huge turn-off for me.  I don't like well-adjusted people and don't have a lot in common with them.  I was married for 10 years to a very conventionally put-together human, and I was bored out of my mind.  It was uncomfortable.  Maybe there's a thread of truth in that regard, then.

[Sandb2015]

Just my theory,

I’ve heard it and agree.

We find chaos, we find the work comfortable, we need the “normalcy” of the unhealthy rs to fit somehow.

Did you say boring?... .Think about that.


My horoscope from today’s NYP,


Plans you made weeks, months, maybe even years ago will pay off between now and the end of the month. Nothing you say or do or even think in life is ever lost - what goes around always comes around again. Never forget that.

What the heck? 

[theuproar]

I get it.  I think there's truth to it, for sure.

I like chaos.  I thrive in it.  However, my idea of chaos is everything around me in disorder, while my partner is my anchor.  I appreciate them being just as "off" as me, because that's comforting, but I also want them to have my back.  In my r/s, I am all alone in that regard.  The only support and soothing available to me is that which I provide myself.

[Steps31]

Uproar -

Thanks for posting that question... .
It's something I think long and hard about everyday, but don't know exactly how to ask the question here without repeating myself.
I'm currently not with my BPD partner or even in contact, but I've been using the time away to educate myself and heal and prepare and better myself, if and when I do choose to try again with her.
I think we must REALLY love these people to subject ourselves willingly to this "danger."
I also understand your point about needing the chaos somehow, but that's another matter... .

[Sandb2015]

I want safety, the work it takes and to count on it... .TRUST!

Trust amidst the chaos... .

Meeting someone very very exciting, it’s a perspective isn’t it? That “off “ is great. When your “off” has defined boundaries that create excitement in life, isn’t that great?

When your partners “off” doesn’t have the definitive boundaries, who is the anchor, we are I think.

Love, bond, connection, trust they’ll always be by your side when crap goes downhill, that’s exciting in such a boring way.

I’m a mixed bag of unlimited triviality... .,,take it with a grain of salt.

[Purplex]

This is a very interesting topic! From what you guys are saying I can already see some paralells to my reasons to stay.

First he is an exceptional personality, quirky, kind, passionate, creative and smart. I was always drawn to people who stand out in some way or another. I feel like he has so much potential that got damaged by his terrible childhood and other events out of his control. I feel like he deserves a somewhat happy life and I want to support him in achieving that. We have similar life goals even if they sometimes seem unachievable. He was never violent or aggressive towards me and he is determined to get better. I suffer by proxy so to speak, not because he is actively hurting me, but rather because his depression and pain rub off on me and cause issues that affect me too. I deeply belive that people can change and heal if they are truly commited and courageous and look for help in the right places.

I like chaos.  I thrive in it.  However, my idea of chaos is everything around me in disorder, while my partner is my anchor.  I appreciate them being just as "off" as me, because that's comforting, but I also want them to have my back.  In my r/s, I am all alone in that regard.  The only support and soothing available to me is that which I provide myself.

This is very relatable to me theuproar! I feel similar in terms of chaos. For me it offers some kind of relieve, clear priorities to focus on, no opportunity to overthink things. I feel alive. I have a purpose. I'd like my partner to take over once my energy is used up, be there for me. As in your case, I can't rely on that at all.     

A good friend recently told me, that maybe we seek out damaged individuals, because deep down we feel like we are damaged ourselves.
Maybe not damaged as a victim, but as a survivor.
There doesn't have to be something wrong with us, but maybe we made experiences that caused us to look at the world from a different angle and therefore it's easier to relate to other victims or survivors. There is a connection, an understanding that others don't necessarily have.   

I think this this might be true for me.
 

[Sandb2015]

Since we the nons that choose to stay despite the extreme difficulties, those of us that are taking the time to discover ourselves may recognize that perhaps the majority of pain we suffer “alone”really comes from our own damage somewhere in our lives.

Do I dare say that many less damaged  people would just not tolerate it and walk with few scars and afterthoughts?

We are attached in such a way, our damage has made us more willing to tolerate it “ we are built for it”.  This makes us so much more vulnerable

Those of us that believe in our rs, I guess see the potential of something better.

If it’s just the chaos we desire, our dreams came true, we’ll get more than we can ever tolerate.

If we get “better”, maybe we can deal better in the short term, if our partner gets help also, we can maybe have what we want without the pain or so much less with someone we can count on.

[415]

i'm not even going to capture a quote because i'd have to capture the whole thread!  Me too... .me too... .me too.   I didn't have any type of an abusive upbringing.  Mine was more of a situation where my parents probably gave me what i wanted and not what I needed. My mom is a people pleaser though, to a fault.  I have that too.  My therapist asked me if I want to rescue my wife.  I know the answer is supposed to be no, but if I were to answer honestly i'd say yes.  The good times were really good.  The bad times I seem to delete.  I've been a caretaker of her for 11 years.  Do I want to rescue her?... .Yes, yes I do.   It's like watching someone you love about to step in front of a bus and asking yourself do you want to reach out and save them.  Yes i want to save her.  To save "us".  Save our future.  My rational mind seems to be constantly want to scream "why would you do this to yourself and to us?  You are destroying what should be a fulfilling life full of love!"

[415]

I've had 3 dysfunction gf's/wife in a row.  4 if we go back to high school.  One even died at 35 years old (we were no longer together), due to how she lived her life as far as I know.   I don't even trust myself to choose someone, considering I either can't see this behaviour for a while or I somehow ignore it.  Now that I think of it I don't know what "normal" would be?  When I tell my family/friends what's currently going on in my marriage/divorce, most of them say something like "she did what?... .that's incomprehensible"

[415]

Panic attacks, crying, nightmares of her being intimate with someone else. I wake to overwhelming depression, anger and hamster wheel thinking the second my mind wakes up before I even open my eyes.  Torture. I know it will get better, I try to focus on that, sometimes works like a bandaid on a heart attack, I’m doing what I can.

Panic attacks - yes
Crying - yes
Nightmares of her being intimate with someone else - yes
My mind wakes up before i even open my eyes - yes
Torture - yes
all "yes" Sandb2015.   Funny thing is is that i've had breakups before where i've felt like this but this one seems to be really holding on longer.  I've had nights of 1hr sleep.  I started out by being to sad/depressed/panicked/shocked to go to work.   Now i go to work but hate coming home.  I live close to a National Park and last weekend i went out there, stayed in a hotel and spent most of the weekend in the pool/hot tub.  I had a huge wave of sadness when i checked in as i realized that i'd never checked into a hotel without my wife in over 11 years.  Then i got sad thinking about having to go home on Sunday.  Waves of emotion.  I hear you.

[Turkish]

Three, I often hear from therapists, psychiatrists, and counselors that only a person who is sick themselves would want to enter into a r/s like the one you'll have with a pwBPD.  Desiring a person with this disorder must mean there's something wrong with you.

Desiring is different than once in.  As I learned in at-risk youth mentoring years ago,  "you don't know what you don't know." It was a challenge to the youth to try somethimg different that what had been [not] working for them.  We default to what has worked for us.  Whether dysfunctional or not,  many people have no outside perception.  We know what we know.  

I had a mother with BPD (and PTSD, Depression and Anxiety). I didn't know.  Not everyone here had BPD or BPD like parents.  I think it's valuable,  though,  to take a deep dive in personal inventory no matter your FOO. As my T said,  "there's nothing wrong with being a Rescuer." I think it's good to own your own motivations though. But as I said,  desiring is different than once in,  especially if you have kids. Complications can pile up and cloud feelings.

[Red5]

What Keeps Us Here?

"Here" for me is ever present "regret" at the moment, what happened to cause the breakup was awful, there is no real excuse for what she did, how she acted… BPD or not, unacceptable.

But as '415' wrote…

The good times were really good.
Yes they were,

The bad times I seem to delete.  
So do I… and that is a lot of deleting,

I've been a caretaker of her for 11 years. 
Me2, eleven years… the first two I didn't even realize what I was doing,

Do I want to rescue her?... .
I do!

"What keeps me here"… guilt, feeling of responsibility, I actually feel like I let her down.

Just cant let go, I still want to "fix" her.

Red5

[theuproar]

I understand wanting to fix someone.  I have that same urge, too.  It's not that I believe there's something fundamentally wrong with my SO; it's that I see her so miserable and I want to make that right.  I have a feeling that's unhealthy, because most of her problems probably have nothing to do with me.  It is also hard to see someone so miserable and not think it has something to do with you.

But is there really anything wrong with caring for someone so much that you'll weather their storms?  I don't think so.  You have to take care of yourself, for sure, but surely there is a way to balance your own needs with those of someone that desperately needs support.

[MyBPD_friend]

Good question, I don't really know why I'm still here.

I have a good life and a wonderful healthy wife since 30 years.
For some reason I still think of my ex friend with BPD.
I went 100 % NC in April 2018. It was a fast, deep intense relationship with the classic BPD pattern, it was not an intimate affair but we got very close.

The reason for to end this finally and for the 2nd time was a big lack of trust to her and her mostly not resonding to me or late response.

It felt very toxic and unhealthy for me, it got clear to me that we triggred each other.
She never wanted to explain her behaviour to me.

However, I might run into her again this weekend or kn the future. We live within a distance of three hours and one border.

I believe I am here also to understand more of what was going on with me and her.
Don't now how to react if I see her again.
Last year by the end of January she saw me in a club, came close me and then to my table - we looked at each other without a word for posting  minutes - that was a bizarr experience.

[once removed]

i think there is certainly a common element (not true in every case) of two wounded people coming together, bonding in part based on those wounds, and in some cases, elements of that bond threaten the stability of the relationship.

thats one common scenario we see a lot on the Detaching board, there are many more.

people on this board remain in their relationships for different reasons. some are logistical/practical ie staying together for the kids, finances, etc. some are out of a deep sense of commitment. some are in a "too bad to stay, too good to go" situation. others have turned their relationships around, and are thriving, and, certainly, some stay for unhealthy reasons. sometimes its a combination of any of the above, as it was for me.

Desiring a person with this disorder must mean there's something wrong with you.

there are mental health professionals that will espouse this view point, sure. i would suggest if that is the message, they are in the minority.

in some cases, perhaps they are speaking more to the generalized scenarios like i made above. i dont consider that to mean that a person is fundamentally flawed. there are many aspects of our partners that both attract, and at times, overwhelm us.

bottom line, if you have made your way to this board, that would tend to suggest your relationship is in some level of turmoil, and that you are reaching out for support (a great step to take).

to me what Bettering entails is a fundamental effort at steering the relationship into healthier territory, and we often must take the lead in doing that. its not an easy task. it tends to require looking at and learning new ways of doing things. it may involve perspective and feedback that really challenges us as individuals. it may even involve examining those unhealthy reasons that keep us in the relationship, which can be one of the hardest things to do, because that change can either make or break the relationship.

[Randi Kreger]

Good afternoon the uproar,

First, it’s been explained to me that somewhere in our youth, we had chaos, trauma or abuse and our minds become wired for it, perhaps looking for a rs that fits our wiring. Imagine your real dream rs with someone other than your current, perfect, getting more love, attention and acceptance than you could ever want.

Ask yourself an honest question after imagining that perfection, does it almost feel uncomfortable? Unobtainable, fantasy?Not for us?


I’ve been viciously thrown out, discarded during a 4 year period and than on 12/19, really thrown out. I’ve been fighting ever since being invited to see her, popping up unannounced, cast away, threatened, welcomed and blocked, devalued and crushed, mix and replay... .

I’m a calm guy, normally charismatic, social, approachable, confident, not easily rattled, logical, considerate.

Now I can’t even look people in the face, a shadow of who I am, I didn’t lose it. Panic attacks, crying, nightmares of her being intimate with someone else. I wake to overwhelming depression, anger and hamster wheel thinking the second my mind wakes up before I even open my eyes.  Torture. I know it will get better, I try to focus on that, sometimes works like a bandaid on a heart attack, I’m doing what I can.

I don’t blame my rs, it did bring out unhealthy things in myself that had a lot to do with how I feel now, I can help that, I can be better just for me.

I have my hope that she may come around enough to join me in getting better so we can have a healthy relationship.

I can’t do what I was doing before, I won’t waste getting better to sacrifice that just to have my love by my side.

I love her and I have hope because I’m determined. Only with change, I realistically know she may not come around

What you are describing here are the effects of severe verbal and emotional abuse. I hope that you are taking very good care of yourself. I really recommend that you see a therapist.

[Sandb2015]

Good afternoon Randi,

Reading your book last night helps as well as a coping mechanisms and healing, seeing things as they are and trying to focus on me while trying to stay connected to my love, that's a tough balancing act but doable.

Yes indeed, I'm seeing a T and I'm looking for something a little more aggressive, this particular T isn't providing the questions,  I'm not giving up, it's work to find the right one and mostly out of pocket which feels especially empty which makes it difficult.

Thanks Randi,

Scott

[TexGuy]

I gave my word when I married her.  I won't walk away from that promise without very good cause.  Safety of the children or infidelity would be the only things to end this for me.  So until she leaves me, which I expect she will some day, I'll continue to try and love and help her.  It is a burden but I chose it.

[Sandb2015]

Another thing Randi,

I have been in the push/pull pattern as of 12/19 and i'm keenly aware of what is happening to her, with her and only recently after feeling a healthy measure of detachment am I feeling less "obsessed" and seeing it for what it is.  It is only until a few weeks ago with the ups and downs, I do see and hear an awareness from her, a significant awareness that seems to originate from her, not with my doing.  I've been the one initiating contact, she is starting to do it on her own in a limited but very noticeable way. 

I've lost my sense of days, time etc., getting it back and I am hearing "I love you" form her and I don't make a big deal.  That, after hearing I don't anymore during the episodes and after being tossed.

This all has an expiration date... .If she comes down to "baseline" long enough with the sense she does love me and she does want an us, that is when I will insist that "we" need counseling and we'll take it from there.  I'm not in denial anymore as to how this affected me and as much as I blamed her, with one finger pointing at her, I point 5 at myself because she did bring to the surface, my lack of emotional intelligence.

I don't have blind faith or think love cures all.

I do want a life with her, as I heal, repair, see what make me tick so to speak, there is a chance given her awareness I haven't seen hardly ever over 4 years and slight battles she has won with herself before my very eyes.

I see the potential until I don't, that's why I "stay".

[Red5]

I gave my word when I married her.  I won't walk away from that promise without very good cause.  Safety of the children or infidelity would be the only things to end this for me.  So until she leaves me, which I expect she will some day, I'll continue to try and love and help her.  It is a burden but I chose it.

I felt... .and still feel the same as you Tex, .

... .Safety of the children

But ^this^ happened... .

Tough stuff Man ; (

Red5