How to break out of the Karpman triangle?

[kiwigal]

My hubby and I need help with something. He will be reading here with me. My MIL refuses to resolve any conflict with me.. despite offering to meet with a counsellor, talk safely, not revisit old offences but just talk about her needs and mine with goals going forward. Bottom line: Doesn't want to change and doesn't want to talk.

But instead my FIL has contacted H (their son) and said that he will talk but is standing mum down from the situation.

There is no way I want to talk to my FIL and engage in the triangle.. they are a dysfunctional unit and he is an enabler

What do you say in order to shut that down? Is it just a matter of H saying "no thank you".. or do you offer an explanation?

[Harri]

In general I would think saying No thank you would be sufficient.  It is hard to say without knowing more though.

Can you describe the triangle(s) you see here and each persons role?  Are you able to work out a scenario where you and your husband would not be on the triangles but can move to the winners triangle?

Escaping the Karpman Drama Triangle
If you find yourself embroiled in a Karpman Drama Triangle, resist the temptation to play the exaggerated role of the victim, rescuer  or persecutor  in which you have been cast (or have cast yourself), and counter with an action that causes your opponent to see their extreme position (without you telling them).

Move to the center. Stop participating as a victim, rescuer or persecutor. Instead, find and hold a center position. The center of the drama triangle contains elements of each corner - it is a combination of sensitivity, compassion, and responsibility - with a solutions focus, even if the solution is retreat.

Refuse to accept your opponent's force. Do not struggle with the other participants in the triangle, or yield to them. Instead, make a counter move with one opponent that allows them to fully take an awkward, indefensible, or unreasonable position. If you have successfully taken the center, your opponent will back off, rather than unmasking themselves and their exaggerated role.

In the style of Eastern Philosophy, we don't want to cast a loved one as an adversary in our mind. Rather, we want to understand their bad habits and unskillful means and counter with awareness and enlightened skills.
...

Start Using the Caring Triangle / Winning Triangle
In 1990, Acey Choy M.Ed., PTSTA, introduced the Winning Triangle in the Transactional Analysis Journal as the antithesis of the Karpman Triangle. Her work has been heralded by Dr. Karpman as "excellent". Choy contrasts the unhealthy dynamics of each role of the Karpman triangle with healthy dynamics. Fjelstad, in her book, Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist, offers a similar model.

victim, rescuer, persecutor triangle

Assert rather than persecute. Instead of the actions of the persecutor,  who blames and punishes - give up trying to force or manipulate others to do what you want. Take on the new behaviors of "doing " and "asserting ". Ask for what you want. Say no for what you don't want. Give constructive feedback. Initiate negotiations. Take positive action.

Be vulnerable, but not a victim. "Victims " often feel overwhelmed, too defeated to solve their problems and emotions. They look to someone else to do it for them. Instead of the victim  role you need to be emotionally mature (vulnerable, not needy), accept the situation you are in and take responsibility to problem solve and function in a more healthy and happy way. Put real thought into what you want and how to get it, and take action to make it happen.
Be caring, but don't overstep. We do not want to let our fears, obligation and guilt to control us or allow us to be manipulated into taking care of another person when it really isn't healthy to do so. Instead of being the rescuer  and doing the thinking, taking the lead, doing more than our share, doing more than is asked of us -  simply be a supportive, empathetic listener and provide reflection, coaching, and assistance if the person asks and is taking the lead themselves. It is important to recognize the other person as an equal (not one-down) and give the other person the respect of letting them take care of themselves, solve their own problems, and deal with their feelings as they choose. Remember, the rescuer  has the most pivotal position on the drama triangle - you are in the strongest position, at least initially, to redirect the dynamic into healthy territory.

[kiwigal]

This is really good!

My MIL is the persecutor acting as the victim. Her position is; "You asking me to talk and take ownership of my behaviour, is making me sick, and you are cruel to ask that of me." My FIL is the rescuer "Dont talk to your MIL, she is too fragile, I will talk for her". And we become the victims portrayed as the persecutors "I wish we would fix you or help you see why what were asking is not unreasonable, and now I feel hopeless"

I guess taking the centre would be "Im sorry mum is so tired right now. I realise Im not easy to understand sometimes, but talking to mum directly with a counsellor, rather than trying to relay information through you, is a great way to move forward with understanding. I'll leave that door open for another time".

Does this sound okay?