Any advice from an attorney to my attorney?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

What did she do when her first marriage ended?

She was truly a victim in that case.  Ex was convicted felon, alcoholic.  She worked full time which I think really kept her BPD traits under better control.  He didn't work, beat her, abused her, etc.  She just wanted out.

[Brian1977]

What did she do when her first marriage ended?

She was truly a victim in that case.  Ex was convicted felon, alcoholic.  She worked full time which I think really kept her BPD traits under better control.  He didn't work, beat her, abused her, etc.  She just wanted out.

[MeandThee29]

She hasn't learned to attend to her own feelings, so she expects others to make her bad feelings go away. Likely, she was relying on you (and others) to make herself feel worthy, and now that it's clear you cannot do this, she blames you (and others) for her feelings of low self worth.

If, in her mind, you are to blame then it makes no sense for her to get help because someone else other than her is the cause of her problems.

Oh my, those are gems. They also blame for their own shame. And project their problems on you.

[ForeverDad]

As a comparison, Bipolar and Borderline PD may have similar symptoms but they are quite different.  Bipolar is said to be a chemical imbalance and meds do help tremendously.  However, Borderline (and other PDs) are behavioral imbalances, the traits are at extreme ends of the normalcy ranges.  With BPD it is exacerbated but self-centered perceptions where the person always has to be right and in control, where feelings and moods trump facts and reality.  Meds may help moderate a pwBPD's behaviors but the practical solution is intensive therapy diligently applied for years.

[Brian1977]

I went to court yesterday for temporary Orders Hearing.  BPDw didn’t show up, very quick and painless.  She has been packing for two days, now prepared to leave this weekend after my daughter graduates tonight.  If you have read my past messages, I felt fine with the order, it is basically just the standard order about mail, money, physicality, etc, but also gave me exclusive use of the house.

Someone please tell me this is “normal” and perhaps an overdose of FOG; but we have both cried a lot the last two days, even crying together (I don’t mean at the same time, I mean actually crying together).  We don’t hate each other, we’re not indifferent to each other.  My wife definitely does not want to get divorced, but she’s not even getting an attorney (she completely trusts me, which she should because I would never screw her; of course her family wants her to get an attorney which I can also understand and have no problem with...again, I just want to be fair). 

The main thing I’m focusing on is that she still doesn’t want to talk about getting help...at least not for BPD.  It’s so weird because she says she is seeing her pastor (I know that to be true), attends group therapy (related to her childhood abuse) and a psychologist (this one I’m not so sure about because when I press her about it she won’t tell me who she’s seeing or even what for, and she says she won’t tell me because I would contact him and use it against her.  She then professes she’s had every psych test done and medicine just turns her into a zombie.  I tried to explain to her that I feel she needs specific help for BPD from someone who’s familiar with it, and the research shows treatment is not some test and there is no magic pill, it’s just specific talking therapy that can help her control her emotions and thus her anger/outrage.  She said to send the information to her sister where she is heading.

I’ve never seen my wife so weak.  Packing up her stuff, I see how very broken she is.  The complete opposite of how strong she can appear during a rage.  My heart is broken, while I can’t feel what she is going through I understand because I have done so much research on BPD.  We talked more the last two days than the last month.  While I feel she is full of excuses, I know that a lot of it is true in her mind.  I try to explain that her threats when she is angry are not tolerable, her answer is “but I never carry them out.” 

I feel like I’m rambling, not even sure what kind of responses I’m looking for.  I’m still very conflicted about my feelings...again, my love is still very alive and real, but I go back to my journal and realize how unhealthy things are the majority of the time.

[MeandThee29]

I feel like I’m rambling, not even sure what kind of responses I’m looking for.  I’m still very conflicted about my feelings...again, my love is still very alive and real, but I go back to my journal and realize how unhealthy things are the majority of the time.

Many of us feel the same. I know I do. I truly love mine, but being together nearly destroyed me. If we tried to make it again on their terms, I doubt that it would last week. Mine disregulates and doesn't remember many of the really bad interactions. Then they flip them on me, saying that I'm mentally ill. There were so many cycles, I can't count them. There was also a suicide attempt, and I'm concerned about that.

One of their people convinced them that if we just started over in a new place, all would be well. I told that to my therapist, and she laughed. She said it's very common among those battling mental illness to think that, but it never works out unless you treat the problem. Uprooting me from friends and family would take away much of my life too, which is what they want. Not healthy.

Starting over may help if you trying to get away from people who are dragging you down, but not if you bring the problem with you. I have a friend battling cocaine addiction, and moving did help her with that, but she's also active in her recovery with a 12-step program. Being with different people in a new place has helped her. But she's working her program.

[formflier]

  but I go back to my journal and realize how unhealthy things are the majority of the time.

Very wise of you to have a journal and to regularly consult it to stay anchored to "your reality".

Hang in there.  Keep working the process.

Best,

FF

[mart555]

My wife definitely does not want to get divorced, but she’s not even getting an attorney (she completely trusts me, which she should because I would never screw her; of course her family wants her to get an attorney which I can also understand and have no problem with...again, I just want to be fair).  

Yeah... that will likely change.  They go from being the victim (ie: Take everything) to feeling powerful (I'll take all you have and will screw you in court!).  Ie: she'll split and you'll be seen as the demon.  These cycles are damn annoying.  I'm at cycle 4 I think...  

And she may end up carrying out threats.  I got the "I never wanted to hit you, I did it because I wanted to be sure that you don't take me back.  You know I don't want to cause you arm" on Christmas eve...  I then found out that she had written to her sister that morning and said "I can't fake it anymore, I want to hit him until he stops moving".  I got that same threat a few months later and was assaulted at my office two days later.  Nothing major, but an assault none the less with a nasty bite mark.  There was no sign of violence before that.    Rage episodes can be scary.  Thanks to the no-contact I feel a bit safer but I know how much anger there is inside her.  There was none of that before mid december.  Things can change fast. 

[hope2727]

I understand what you are experiencing and am so sorry you have to go through this. I've been there. As a decent, lovinghumna being its so hard to attack the ones we love. However, My biggest regret is that I didn't just go full bore at the beginning. Its what multiple professionals told me to do and I should have. It cost me tens of thousands of dollars and years of my life. You cannot logic a broken brain and pwBPD do not react based on our logic. If I had been the bad/strong person up front I could always have given things back later. Its a bit like staff management. Be tough up front so the expectations are set high. Then be nice later as a reward or kindness not as an expectation. I've learned the hard way on both the divorce and employee front. So listen to your lawyer. Yes your wife is a hurt person and this will be painful for both of you. So be the strong one and take the tough stance to protect everyone involved then give back kindness from a position of power and safety once its all over. Seriously learn from my mistakes.

[Panda39]

Someone please tell me this is “normal” and perhaps an overdose of FOG; but we have both cried a lot the last two days, even crying together (I don’t mean at the same time, I mean actually crying together).  We don’t hate each other, we’re not indifferent to each other. 

I would say yes it is normal to mourn the end of a relationship/marriage and to care about the other person and at the same time to know that to end the relationship/marriage is still the right decision.  It's Gray, it's not black and white.

I felt much the same when I left my marriage.  I didn't deliberately go out of my way to hurt my husband but I was still ending it because the relationship was not working for either of us (or our son).

Ultimately, in my case my leaving was a catalyst for positive change for all of us, me, my ex and my son.  The end of a marriage/relationship does not necessarily have to be a bad thing.

Panda39

[hope2727]

Yes totally normal. It is sad. Very sad. Cry, grieve, and honour your loss. Then rebuild your amazing new life and find peace and happiness.
So sorry you have to endure this.

[ForeverDad]

If you look up the traits of BPD, there are more than a few.  All of these traits would be 'normal' if balanced.  But these are BPD traits since they're out of balance and to one extreme or another.  People with BPD can and do have different levels of action, reaction and overreaction.  Be thankful her perceptions are not as aggressive as others described here.  However, be cautious... separation gives distance and her behaviors may appear less abnormal when apart but they're lurking below the surface if you get back together.

As for her comment about meds.  Bipolar does have a chemical imbalance basis and so meds can help greatly there.  But Borderline is a disorder focused greatly on perceptions, particularly of close relationships.  Meds may moderate the severity of the BPD behaviors but intensive therapy diligently applied for years is the primary answer.

[MeandThee29]

I understand what you are experiencing and am so sorry you have to go through this. I've been there. As a decent, loving human being its so hard to attack the ones we love. However, My biggest regret is that I didn't just go full bore at the beginning. Its what multiple professionals told me to do and I should have. It cost me tens of thousands of dollars and years of my life. You cannot logic a broken brain and pwBPD do not react based on our logic. If I had been the bad/strong person up front I could always have given things back later. Its a bit like staff management. Be tough up front so the expectations are set high. Then be nice later as a reward or kindness not as an expectation. I've learned the hard way on both the divorce and employee front. So listen to your lawyer. Yes your wife is a hurt person and this will be painful for both of you. So be the strong one and take the tough stance to protect everyone involved then give back kindness from a position of power and safety once its all over. Seriously learn from my mistakes.

Yes, that's what I was told too. You can always dial back, but you can't get back something you give up right away.

So contrary to my nature though. I'm not a negotiator, I'm a giver.

[ForeverDad]

Yes, that's what I was told too. You can always dial back, but you can't get back something you give up right away.

So contrary to my nature though. I'm not a negotiator, I'm a giver.

My observation has been that our second nature is to be too fair, too nice, too overlooking for our own good.  If we get a good, proactive, experienced lawyer then we can appreciate the lawyer looking out for Gifting traps and too-fair inclinations that would sabotage us as the more stable parent.

Remember, this isn't you the healthier parent versus the misguided problematic parent.  This is about you ensuring the best outcome for your children as well as for you.  The standard flight instructions... "In the event of an emergency put on your own oxygen mask first before helping others."

[MeandThee29]

My observation has been that our second nature is to be too fair, too nice, too overlooking for our own good.  If we get a good, proactive, experienced lawyer then we can appreciate the lawyer looking out for Gifting traps and too-fair inclinations that would sabotage us as the more stable parent.

Remember, this isn't you the healthier parent versus the misguided problematic parent.  This is about you ensuring the best outcome for your children as well as for you.  The standard flight instructions... "In the event of an emergency put on your own oxygen mask first before helping others."

Exactly what my lawyer said. He said I'm too nice and not thinking about my future when I need to think about my future. I have "preparing for launch" young adults who live with me and who are not financially independent,  and I hope to retire in 10-12 years, not dependent on them. He's been kind about it, but I need my lawyer.