Events of the past changed in their minds? Is this BPD or something additional?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

On a visit 2 weeks ago with Dad and uBPD mom, my Mother said something that absolutely shocked me.  She told me that I was deaf until I had my tonsils out and that was why it was done.    My tonsils were taken out between first and second grades.  I definitely was not deaf --  It was 50 years ago, but I know that my own memories would be totally different had I been deaf.  And at that age, I would not have been attending regular schools, either.

I do believe that she believes it in her own mind.  I did not engage it one way or another.  Neither did I mention this to my Dad because he is in enough pain from living with her day in and day out.

I realize that you are not professionals.  But does anyone know, does an alternate reality come into play with BPD or is something additional going on with her?  Or perhaps she did just make it up to get a reaction?  Should I just forget I ever heard this (no pun intended)?

[todayistheday]

On a visit 2 weeks ago with Dad and uBPD mom, my Mother said something that absolutely shocked me.  She told me that I was deaf until I had my tonsils out and that was why it was done.    My tonsils were taken out between first and second grades.  I definitely was not deaf --  It was 50 years ago, but I know that my own memories would be totally different had I been deaf.  And at that age, I would not have been attending regular schools, either.

I do believe that she believes it in her own mind.  I did not engage it one way or another.  Neither did I mention this to my Dad because he is in enough pain from living with her day in and day out.

I realize that you are not professionals.  But does anyone know, does an alternate reality come into play with BPD or is something additional going on with her?  Or perhaps she did just make it up to get a reaction?  Should I just forget I ever heard this (no pun intended)?

[Harri]

Hi.   

A lot of people use the term deaf when they really mean hearing loss.  Swollen tonsils (and adenoids) can cause temporary hearing loss, usually of a more mild degree, though sometimes moderate, but a lot of lay people refer to it as being deaf.  The type of hearing loss does not involve the nerves, but rather the structures of the middle and outer ears.  Is it possible this may be going on with your mom telling you what she said rather than her trying to get a reaction of of you? 

All that said, I would not bother trying to correct her either way.  I think you are right that she believes what she said possibly based on very limited understanding of anatomy and physiology.   You know better.   

I can see where she might use such a history with problems with tonsils and possible middle ear dysfunction to talk about how difficult it was for her to have a child with 'medical problems'.  That would annoy me to no end.  I'd rather pick my battles though.

[todayistheday]

Is it possible this may be going on with your mom telling you what she said rather than her trying to get a reaction of of you? 

She SHOULD understand the difference as she went to nursing school and did practice for a couple years.  But, who knows. 

In either case, it's odd that she would have never mentioned it for 51 years.  It is opposite of her personality to keep things inside that she can use either for "woe is my life" or "you have ruined my life" or anything else.  My Dad says that she still harps on him about things that happened before they even got married in 1960. 

In the 1960s, Tonsillectomies were as common as tubes in the ears now.

 

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother "rewrites" history a lot.

I think it is about "feelings equal facts". If she feels it happened that way, then it did.

Your mom may know better since she is a nurse, but her feelings may have altered how she perceived what happened.

[Witz_End]

I don't know if this is the case or why it would be the case here, but...

I wonder the same thing with my uBPDw.  As an example, she had had a relationship with a diagnosed sociopath which did not end well and left her feeling emotionally raped.  According to her, last December I told her that it was her fault - basically that she had screwed up and subjected herself to it.  She harbored this all the way through Christmas and brought it up in February, several months later.

I could not remember the details of the conversation, but did know that I never ever had seen her as at fault or anything but a victim.  I also know myself well enough that I would see that as brutal to say.  Even if I saw it that way, I wouldn't even say it in a rage.  I communicated this to her and offered that maybe I had said something that awkwardly expressed something else or that had been misheard or misunderstood.  She was adamant that I had not only said it clearly and explicitly, but had clarified that that was what I really meant.

I did not realize BPD was at play here till very recently, so at that point I was blown away and even questioning my own sanity.  Could I really have deviated so far off course, acting against the grain of who I am and not remembered it?  How and what would that mean?

I have noticed a couple other times since where I knew I had been very tuned into the details of a conversation and she told me that I (or she) had said something completely different than I remembered.

I do believe the "feelings equal facts" theory may be onto something.  In the example I gave, it could be that either she *felt* I was saying it was her fault or that something I said led her to *feel* that it was her fault, so the fact became that I said it was her fault and retroactively she filled in details to support it, remembering emotional interpretation as if it was said verbatim.

I have no clue where that might apply to a medical diagnosis, which would seem to be a bit different of a thing.  Since altered perception seems very closely tied to emotion, what would be going on there?  I have no clue.

[Notwendy]

Witz end- what you are saying goes along with my own observation that pwBPD tend to see things from victim perspective. I don't know if there's documentation of this, but it's what I've observed and victim perspective adds emotions to the feeling=facts. If they perceive that they are a victim, then they must be.

There is a payoff to victim perspective and I think it is to avoid shame. A victim is not responsible for what happens. It isn't their fault. If it isn't their fault, there's no shame.

Unfortunately, without accountability, there also isn't learning. We learn early on that if we say or do hurtful things to a friend, they won't play with us anymore. This teaches us to play nicely with friends if we want someone to play with us. As adults, we know that if we treat others poorly, they won't want to spend time with us.

We learn that our behavior has consequences. If a person is in victim perspective, then they don't take account, they don't learn. I don't know where BPD occurs with a child, or teen, but I think this perspective changes the learning pattern for them.

For the medical issue with the tonsils, I don't know where the feeling turned into fact. Maybe there was some fluid in the ears - common with kids who have ear,  nose, throat infections. That can effect hearing temporarily and that was exaggerated in her memory.

[Panda39]

I have seen the feelings = facts thing too with my partner's ex or maybe it's some "magical thinking".

I first learned about BPD because I Googled "Chronic Lying". 

My Partner's ex makes up stories in her head...she feels it/believe's it therefore it is...she's buying a $2M house next week when she's living on $1,200 per mo...what the heck?  She's going to pay for her daughter's college tuition with a "Family Trust" that doesn't exist, she's going to send the other daughter to summer camp when she has no money, the list goes on and on of all the things she's going to do...promises...promises...

It goes on and on...she can't do what she wants (shame), she want's something to be true (she wants what she wants), and she then convinces herself that it's true (she's the hero), only to discover it isn't true (shame).  This is a cycle that she repeats over and over again.  I believe this behavior, this inconsistency, this "lying" (to herself & to others) is what contributed to my partner's D18 developing PTSD.  These promises and failures have been damaging.

todayistheday,
I'm not sure why your mom decided to tell you this after so many years. What was the conversation leading into this revelation?  Because to me this sounds like she is not making herself out to be the victim, but instead was the rescuer...the hero...who saved you from deafness.   Did she need to feel like the hero in that moment?  Was it part of some FOG...you owe her something because she saved you from deafness?

It's all just so weird sometimes...trying to make sense out of things that make no sense.

I couldn't resist 

Take care,
Panda39

[todayistheday]

todayistheday,
I'm not sure why your mom decided to tell you this after so many years. What was the conversation leading into this revelation?  Because to me this sounds like she is not making herself out to be the victim, but instead was the rescuer...the hero...who saved you from deafness.    Did she need to feel like the hero in that moment?  Was it part of some FOG...you owe her something because she saved you from deafness?


Take care,
Panda39

Not sure why the 'deafness' issue came up.  I was getting over a sinus infection when I visited.  She asked me about it and I told her that I was taking something for it.  She went off into "you have always had those, in fact you had your tonsils out because ..."    

Recall that in the 1960s, tonsils were pretty routinely removed.   I had already been to school for a year.  At that time, people with disabilities were not mainstreamed, so I seriously doubt that if I'd had an impairment, I would have been in the scool that I was in.  But, I don't need to argue the fact.  It's just weird that 50 years later she would come up with something so outlandish.  I was wondering if it's a regular occurance for a BPD to do such a thing, and if they really believe it (she seemed to).