Can I set boundaries without cooperation from household?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hello, everyone

I'm so glad to have found you all - I have been feeling kind of alone. I'm a newbie (although I've been lurking for a little while). My younger S32 (the youngest of four in our family), has been diagnosed with BPD. I wouldn't be surprised if she has OCD as well. It has been hard getting a Dx for her, as I see that it is for many of you and your family members. We have seen many many Ps because she always ends up hating them and we have to switch. She has actually returned recently to one of them and the only thing I like about him is that he is willing to tweak her meds for anxiety. He doesn't seem to think she has BPD but I am sure of it. Luckily he is supporting her new DBT counseling.

S was very sensitive as a child but I never would've guessed that in the future she would suffer like this. She has never lived away from home. My parents had always sheltered us so I figured her staying at home had to do with fear of taking care of herself--all the siblings had to get out of the house and learn how to be independent on our own, and especially understand mistakes would be made. She has always been terrified of making mistakes. She was married for about a year to a very horrible individual, and they lived with my parents. She began to display noticeable symptoms when she was 12, including paranoia about people hating her, looking at her wrong, extreme anxiety, extreme anger. I lived away from home at this time (I'm 40). My parents had no idea what was going on but did take her to a P that diagnosed her with an anxiety disorder and OCD. She saw him for a long time. She hasn't been in therapy consistently, but the hope is that she will stay in it now.

She had one successful job that she held for 3 years and did very well in it. Since the end of her marriage several years ago, she has not been able hold down a job for more than a a few months, and often for just a week or two. She always concludes the people are against her. She has no friends...she will make a friend and think they're the most amazing person in the world and a few weeks later she rages at them and ends the friendship.  She isn't on social media anymore because she would lose control and rage at people (whether she knows them or not). Via social media, she also got involved in what I would call religious cults or scams. She has lost a lot of money to these sorts of movements. Sometimes she says she is a prophet and sees angels and demons. I am a religious person, but don't believe her about this which she says hurts her feelings.

I am 40 and have been away from home since I graduated from college. I went back to school for a career change and am in the last year of my Ph.D. program. In fact, it has to be the last year because they have a time limit and they gave me this extension. I am terrified I won't finish and all these years will have been for naught. I moved back in with my father last year (my mother died a few years ago) to save money and finish up the dissertation. I was looking forward to spending time with my dad and sister since my mother's death reminded me of how short life is, and I regretted not spending more time with her before she died.

Most days are not spent doing anything but dealing with my sister. I feel like my dad and I are a slave to her needs, wants, rages, threats. She spent 3 days in a psychiatric ward but because she doesn't have insurance, she had limited options as to where to go. The place where she went to was horrible. That day, she started screaming at the top of her lungs, saying she wanted to die, and running out the door in her pajamas to "get help." I did not want to take her but I had no idea what to do. I felt like I couldn't keep her safe - I am not fast enough to catch her running down the street. So I took her to the hospital. They kept her in the ER until a bed opened up at the psych hospital. She was in the hospital for 7 days but in the psych ward for only 3 days. On the one hand, I was so glad for her to get out of that place, but on the other hand it seemed like too short of a stay. She told us she lied a lot to the doctor to get out. In the span of 3 days, she "fell in love" with a fellow patient (a meth addict who she gave one of my dead mother's rings to), and developed a whole new personality. It wore off after a couple of weeks, thank God. The guy she fell in love with never contacted her after leaving the psych ward.

My dad had said repeatedly she was not to go to a psych ward because he thought they would lock her up indefinitely, torture her, etc. a la One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest--he had very antiquated ideas about the status of mental health care. He still doesn't bother to read or educate himself about her disorder, medication, anything. I think he is always in denial. He doesn't think she needs to get on disability because it won't be long until she can get a job...but he's been saying that for years. He is also overworked, so I know all of this is very overwhelming.

She is very attached to my father, even though half the time she says the vilest things about him. He does everything for her, supports her financially, cooks and cleans, sits with her for about an hour when it's bedtime and even rubs her temples! We are in financial straits but S will call/text him during the day (even though I'm in the house with her) begging him to come home. He often does it because she threatens to hurt or kill herself if he doesn't. His job is commission only so being away from the office is a big deal. He will usually call or text me to comfort her while he is on his way. She can be perfectly fine and I will go to another room to do work, and then minutes later I'll get a text from my dad that she is doing horribly and to go sit with her.

We are both exhausted, mentally and physically ill from taking care of her and listening to her rages, which often are just an hour or more of verbally abusing us. I have been reading a lot in "Walking on Eggshells" and this site about setting limits. I think I am ready to do it. My dad does not want to because he says she won't go along with it. Can I be successful if he isn't setting limits with her? One thing I'm afraid of is setting limits, and then having the fallout land on him. I don't want to make his life any harder. I am honestly afraid he is going to fall over any day now - he has a heart condition.

OMG this is long!

[CatsAreCool]

Hello, everyone

I'm so glad to have found you all - I have been feeling kind of alone. I'm a newbie (although I've been lurking for a little while). My younger S32 (the youngest of four in our family), has been diagnosed with BPD. I wouldn't be surprised if she has OCD as well. It has been hard getting a Dx for her, as I see that it is for many of you and your family members. We have seen many many Ps because she always ends up hating them and we have to switch. She has actually returned recently to one of them and the only thing I like about him is that he is willing to tweak her meds for anxiety. He doesn't seem to think she has BPD but I am sure of it. Luckily he is supporting her new DBT counseling.

S was very sensitive as a child but I never would've guessed that in the future she would suffer like this. She has never lived away from home. My parents had always sheltered us so I figured her staying at home had to do with fear of taking care of herself--all the siblings had to get out of the house and learn how to be independent on our own, and especially understand mistakes would be made. She has always been terrified of making mistakes. She was married for about a year to a very horrible individual, and they lived with my parents. She began to display noticeable symptoms when she was 12, including paranoia about people hating her, looking at her wrong, extreme anxiety, extreme anger. I lived away from home at this time (I'm 40). My parents had no idea what was going on but did take her to a P that diagnosed her with an anxiety disorder and OCD. She saw him for a long time. She hasn't been in therapy consistently, but the hope is that she will stay in it now.

She had one successful job that she held for 3 years and did very well in it. Since the end of her marriage several years ago, she has not been able hold down a job for more than a a few months, and often for just a week or two. She always concludes the people are against her. She has no friends...she will make a friend and think they're the most amazing person in the world and a few weeks later she rages at them and ends the friendship.  She isn't on social media anymore because she would lose control and rage at people (whether she knows them or not). Via social media, she also got involved in what I would call religious cults or scams. She has lost a lot of money to these sorts of movements. Sometimes she says she is a prophet and sees angels and demons. I am a religious person, but don't believe her about this which she says hurts her feelings.

I am 40 and have been away from home since I graduated from college. I went back to school for a career change and am in the last year of my Ph.D. program. In fact, it has to be the last year because they have a time limit and they gave me this extension. I am terrified I won't finish and all these years will have been for naught. I moved back in with my father last year (my mother died a few years ago) to save money and finish up the dissertation. I was looking forward to spending time with my dad and sister since my mother's death reminded me of how short life is, and I regretted not spending more time with her before she died.

Most days are not spent doing anything but dealing with my sister. I feel like my dad and I are a slave to her needs, wants, rages, threats. She spent 3 days in a psychiatric ward but because she doesn't have insurance, she had limited options as to where to go. The place where she went to was horrible. That day, she started screaming at the top of her lungs, saying she wanted to die, and running out the door in her pajamas to "get help." I did not want to take her but I had no idea what to do. I felt like I couldn't keep her safe - I am not fast enough to catch her running down the street. So I took her to the hospital. They kept her in the ER until a bed opened up at the psych hospital. She was in the hospital for 7 days but in the psych ward for only 3 days. On the one hand, I was so glad for her to get out of that place, but on the other hand it seemed like too short of a stay. She told us she lied a lot to the doctor to get out. In the span of 3 days, she "fell in love" with a fellow patient (a meth addict who she gave one of my dead mother's rings to), and developed a whole new personality. It wore off after a couple of weeks, thank God. The guy she fell in love with never contacted her after leaving the psych ward.

My dad had said repeatedly she was not to go to a psych ward because he thought they would lock her up indefinitely, torture her, etc. a la One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest--he had very antiquated ideas about the status of mental health care. He still doesn't bother to read or educate himself about her disorder, medication, anything. I think he is always in denial. He doesn't think she needs to get on disability because it won't be long until she can get a job...but he's been saying that for years. He is also overworked, so I know all of this is very overwhelming.

She is very attached to my father, even though half the time she says the vilest things about him. He does everything for her, supports her financially, cooks and cleans, sits with her for about an hour when it's bedtime and even rubs her temples! We are in financial straits but S will call/text him during the day (even though I'm in the house with her) begging him to come home. He often does it because she threatens to hurt or kill herself if he doesn't. His job is commission only so being away from the office is a big deal. He will usually call or text me to comfort her while he is on his way. She can be perfectly fine and I will go to another room to do work, and then minutes later I'll get a text from my dad that she is doing horribly and to go sit with her.

We are both exhausted, mentally and physically ill from taking care of her and listening to her rages, which often are just an hour or more of verbally abusing us. I have been reading a lot in "Walking on Eggshells" and this site about setting limits. I think I am ready to do it. My dad does not want to because he says she won't go along with it. Can I be successful if he isn't setting limits with her? One thing I'm afraid of is setting limits, and then having the fallout land on him. I don't want to make his life any harder. I am honestly afraid he is going to fall over any day now - he has a heart condition.

OMG this is long!

[Notwendy]

Hello Cats are Cool.

This is a tough situation and involves relationships between several family members that have been going on for a long time.

There isn't a quick solution, but being in the last year of your studies, writing the dissertation is a main priority. One tough part of this is that it is relatively less structured than the traditional studies you were in earlier. There were class times, and then tests, or papers due. With the dissertation, you have a lot of room to make your own schedule- but as you said- a deadline eventually.

Your living situation is on "crisis mode"- people reacting to the latest ( and frequent ) drama. So it's easy to be distracted by the current needs. You've also taken on a family role of emotional caretaker to some extent, which means your family members will look to you to get their needs met.

But you have needs too. If I had a crystal ball, I'd predict that- a year from now, your sister will still have BPD, whether or not you finish your PhD. Not finishing your PhD won't help your family but it will demoralize you. So IMHO, the issue here is to change focus from the family drama and on to your goals,

You need a place to go to write/study every day. It would be ideal if you could live somewhere else, but that may not be possible. Are you near your university or any university or library? It would help to set a schedule for yourself to be out of the house- every day - like a job- and this becomes a priority- go to the library and write.

Self care- eat nutritious meals, get some exercise.

A support person- on campus counseling, a counselor, or 12 step coda groups for family members of people with disorders ( BPD family dynamics are similar to families with an alcoholic so these programs can help)

A faculty member as mentor- someone to help you be accountable. Set up regular meetings by phone or skype, or in person- to keep you on task. Make small goals and have the support person hold you accountable.

In short- coping involves self care, not letting these issues derail your goals and your plans. It doesn't mean not caring about them, but not taking care of you won't help them. and it won't help you.

[Harri]

Hi Cats!  I am glad you decided to leave lurker mode.   

Yes, it is possible to set boundaries without the co-operation of your father and sister.  It will be difficult, but it can and should be done.  I know you are concerned about both of them and maybe especially your father.  It is difficult to see someone you care about engage in such unhealthy behaviors and not feel responsible or want to step in and help.  The thing is, his choices are his to make.  You can make your own choices.

I know that sounds cut and dried and even harsh.  It does not have to be that way though.  You can set boundaries and still be compassionate and supportive of your father while taking care of you (Notwendy is so right about that).

Where would you like to start?  Pick one thing, texts and calls, going to campus or the library to work on your dissertation, etc.  lets see where we can go with this.

[CatsAreCool]

Hello, @Notwendi and @Harri

I'm so sorry it took so long for me to reply. Thank you so much for responding - I think you were both right and offered me a lot of insight. I was able to take some steps in prioritizing my school work - blocked out time to go to a coffee shop every day. My sister actually seemed to be responding well to boundaries - she really likes clarity and structure. She was even kind of cheering me on regarding the dissertation.

But of course, I shouldn't have gotten too excited. One day, out of nowhere, she said that something I said showed my "bad attitude" and that it was my tone that gave me away. She reacted VERY strongly - saying she wanted me dead, screaming, and packing to go to a homeless shelter. I have felt for a long time that I trigger her for some reason. My dad came home and calmed her down, but I heard her saying she can't live with me. I wasn't sure what to do - I actually felt scared of her threat to kill me (even though she says it from time to time). I just decided to pack a few things and go to my boyfriend's. Later my dad and I talked and decided maybe it would be better for both my sister and I if I moved out, at least for a little bit. So while she was at therapy I came back to my dad's house and packed as much I could into the car and took it back to my boyfriend's house. Luckily I have him and he is glad to have me at the house.

So now I am figuring out a new routine to focus on my goals, but stay in touch with my dad in order to help in any way I can. My sister is still furious and hates me. I hope she flips back to the other side soon.

Thanks again for being there! I'll be updating the forum and try not to be a "lurker" by participating more!

[Harri]

Hi again!  Thanks for the update. 

I am glad to hear that you are safe and staying with your boyfriend and that your father was supportive of the move.     How long ago since you moved?  How is your dad coping with it?

That your sister responded well to your boundaries and more structure is good too.  Boundaries can help a lot but they are not a cure as you know especially because they are more about us and what we do and how we respond.

Anyway, let us know how the dissertation work is coming along and how you are coping with the changes with your move and focusing more on you.  I think you would benefit by learning the tools we offer here and reading the articles we have tacked to the top of the page and in our Library. 

And definitely do not go back to Lurkerdom.