I put down a boundary and said if she cuts me off then...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

It looks like my ex isn’t coming back this time. She told me last Wednesday that she is now moving on. Just a week ago she wanted me to ring her. We’ve had a very warm Bank Holiday here and it has made me miss her all the more and long for the beautiful holiday we had together in Greece. The withdrawal has really been on me this weekend, despite being extremely busy and I miss her terribly.

On the other hand I looked at our email exchange from February and we were arguing about the same issues in the relationship way back then. She blocked me on WhatsApp and then got upset when I blocked her back. Her accusing me of ghosting her when she was doing exactly that to me. It’s been a rollercoaster of push/pull and I don’t miss feeling awful all the time but I do miss her company. I suppose when there is any kind of contact I at least feel connected.

I don’t know if she will contact me again. The contempt for me was at its height the last time we talked and she accused me of abuse and then two days later not being interested in her life. I explained that she had sat on my what’s app for a week and not  communicated. When I asked her why she replied ‘laziness.’ Everything she has said to me in the past few months seems designed to hurt to the maximum degree. Despite all of this I yearn for her. The previous time she dumped me and reconnected I resolved that I would try to do things differently. Unfortunately she was so angry at me it was extremely difficult not to react plus I was so distraught at the three weeks of silence I couldn’t hide my hurt and she didn’t want to deal with my feelings.. This time I put down a boundary and said if she cuts me off then she can’t expect me to welcome her back with open arms. This has resulted in what looks like the final break up. Yet I yearn for her still.

[RomanticFool]

It looks like my ex isn’t coming back this time. She told me last Wednesday that she is now moving on. Just a week ago she wanted me to ring her. We’ve had a very warm Bank Holiday here and it has made me miss her all the more and long for the beautiful holiday we had together in Greece. The withdrawal has really been on me this weekend, despite being extremely busy and I miss her terribly.

On the other hand I looked at our email exchange from February and we were arguing about the same issues in the relationship way back then. She blocked me on WhatsApp and then got upset when I blocked her back. Her accusing me of ghosting her when she was doing exactly that to me. It’s been a rollercoaster of push/pull and I don’t miss feeling awful all the time but I do miss her company. I suppose when there is any kind of contact I at least feel connected.

I don’t know if she will contact me again. The contempt for me was at its height the last time we talked and she accused me of abuse and then two days later not being interested in her life. I explained that she had sat on my what’s app for a week and not  communicated. When I asked her why she replied ‘laziness.’ Everything she has said to me in the past few months seems designed to hurt to the maximum degree. Despite all of this I yearn for her. The previous time she dumped me and reconnected I resolved that I would try to do things differently. Unfortunately she was so angry at me it was extremely difficult not to react plus I was so distraught at the three weeks of silence I couldn’t hide my hurt and she didn’t want to deal with my feelings.. This time I put down a boundary and said if she cuts me off then she can’t expect me to welcome her back with open arms. This has resulted in what looks like the final break up. Yet I yearn for her still.

[ct21218]

Have you thought about taking some time alone to work on yourself to find out why you attract these dysfunctional women?  I recently got out of a relationship and plan to be alone for at least 3-6 months before I start dating again.

[Skip]

Lather, rinse, repeat...



Man Follows Shampoo Directions And Dies In Shower After Repeating and Repeating and ...

You are going to die doing this too, RF, if you don't break the cycle.

The question is not "why did she want a ring last week, gone this week", the question is who is she, who are you, and are you a good match?

And you don't know the answer, RF.

She is a highly emotive person (blues are bluer, greens are greener, blacks are blacker) and she fears her own emotional swings (because they can destroy her - this is the root of suicidal thoughts in BPD) and lives a life that protects her from that (this is where the avoidance comes in).

Metaphorically, think of a beautiful horse - it's a highly reactive fear animal. People who have horses love them, respect them, and know that they have a much different personality and power than a dog or cat or parrot.  I have several friends who are horsemen/women and they have incredible relationships with their horses. Key to that is they understand them.

It might be worth noting that some residential treatment centers for BPD are horse farms. They use horses to teach people with BPD traits that others think differently.

My read is that you don't know "who is she, who are you, and are you a good match"? You don't know.

You don't know. There are so many disconnects in the things you tell us and more importantly the things you tell yourself. Read the things you say - they places you post - and look at the things you do. It's crazy city.

So let go of the "how could she possibly..." and buckle in and try to understand the answers to the questions. What she does makes perfect sense to her. Just as what you do makes perfect sense to you. Just as what a horse does makes perfect sense to her.

The key to all relationships is self-awareness (know who you are and who you want to be), empathy (understanding others who think differently than you), and pragmatism (are you compatible).

You give this intellectual acknowledgement, but you don't live but it.

It's making you miserable.

Who is she, who are you, and are you a good match?

[RomanticFool]

I love the horse analogy. They are skittish animals and you have to be extra careful with them when enticing them in to eat a carrot.

I am attempting to change how I deal with her. I told her that I will give her a credit on a piece of work we did together and that I admire and respect her talent. I also told her I didn't want any money from the recent holiday we went on.

I said I will respect the fact that she has moved on and if that means she has met someone else than so be it. I wished her happiness and hoped that she finds the happiness which she couldn’t with me.

She sent a two word reply ‘Thank you.’

I wished it was more but at least she wasn’t threatening to expose me to all and sundry as an abuser.

I think she is 50% wonderful and 50% demon. At times she appears completely devoid of empathy. I don’t know who she really is. I’ve only seen the demon recently.

Yes she is protecting herself from me and her own feelings.

I think I’m the caring loving man that she fell in symbiotic reverie with but she also thinks I’m a demon. I feel like I love the bones of her. I feel like without her my life has no meaning and yet I’m frightened of her. I don’t want to live without her but I don’t want the demonic version of her. She feels the same way about me. I think I have been overly harsh with her at times but that’s because I felt she said such outrageous things I couldn’t let it go. She is a frightened horse but also a manipulative and hurtful abuser. I don’t know who she really is and I don’t know who I really am half the time. We probably don’t get on for that reason. I adore her though.

[ct21218]

Do you get that this is not about her at all?  You will attract another with the same issues until you do the internal work.

[RomanticFool]

Well yes, so people keep telling me. It feels like the ones I love the most are the most elusive.

[RomanticFool]

Her two word reply has killed me. She didn’t say she hasn’t met someone so I’m fearing the worst. I feel so awful. We were on holiday just over a month ago and I’m plagued by thoughts of her sunning herself with my replacement. She told me that she had moved on.

[ct21218]

You are simply prolonging the pain by continuing to reach out to her and ruminating over your relationship.  The longer you do this, the more pain you will be in, and the farther you will get from a truly healthy future relationship.

[RomanticFool]

Well it depends on whether she’s met someone else or not. If she has then it’s a world of pain. If she hasn’t, I may be able to do things differently. But it’s not looking good. She shows no signs of any interest in me anymore. When she tried to reconnect 8 days ago I gave her short shrift as she had ended the relationship and cut me off for two weeks. I don’t see that there’s any way she would have kept away from me this long without some kind of male interest. She told me she had moved on but then again she has said that a few times in the past too. The fact that she has replied could be significant but in all honesty I think it’s over. I just feel bereft and lonely. I miss her and the intimacy but I think even if she came back now she’s caused me so much pain I couldn’t forgive her. However, what I can do that I haven’t done in the recent past is be kind to her. That would be a new approach. Not to try and get her back but because that is the person I want to be.

[ct21218]

Why does it even matter what she is doing?  This will never be a healthy or sustainable relationship.   None of your relationships have been and you cannot change her behavior.  You are not viewing this through a clear lens.

[RomanticFool]

I know. But I love her and still want her. She isn’t coming back this time.

[Skip]

Why are you posting on the detaching board?

Think about it.

If you post on Bettering, you will get some push back on how you are handling the situation and some redirection. You don't want that.The Detaching board is more validating. Right?  

RF, you're killing yourself. You got a lot of helpful advice after the last relationship and early on in this one and you know it makes sense, but then you let your emotions drive the car. You jumped into a no-win situation.

You know (you have posted it) that you made some bad macro-choices here, you trigger on her reactions and do self defeating things, that she has a boat load of issues, and you both blame the other for everything that has gone wrong.

You know this one is over.  You know that it needs to be over.

You guys are not a good match. You  played this wrong. You didn't think dating while being married would be terminal

Each of those things alone would have sunk this ship.

So why does it hurt? Your fear of abandonment is in full force. It is killing you that she is rejecting you. Almost everyone here struggles with abandonment anxiety.

This is what happened in the last relationship. It had gone long past being satisfying, but your fear of abandonment kicked in and you hung on for dear life, months after the relationship was dead.

Let her go. Learn from this. Accept the loss. Start the grieving process.  We will stand with you as you go through it.  It will hurt.  Fear of abandonment is a wicked ass kicker. You can't avoid it when a relationship tanks - you have to swim through it.

[RomanticFool]

Because I haven’t seen her for 5 weeks and as much as I still want her I am actually detaching from her very slowly. I can’t pretend I don’t want her back but even if she did come back I don’t think I could go through with reconnecting again. She’s caused me too much pain. It’s not a black and white situation. I love her and desire her but she is bad for me. I need to detach from her for my mental and physical health.

[ct21218]

I know you said are are sober.  Do you have a sponsor?  Has he ever had you write out your ideals in a relationship?

[RomanticFool]

Yes, I’ve done step 4 numerous times. I’ve been discussing with my sponsor this current situation and it’s been painful and testy. The trouble with AA is that there is a tendency to compare addictive relationships with alcoholism and while from the outside the mechanism and patterns may seem similar, to me there is a world of difference. Getting off alcohol was not in the same ball park as this kind of agony. In SLAA they say that the withdrawal from a relationship is worse than getting off heroin. All I can say is give me heroin any day of the week. Anything is preferable to this monotonous pain.

[ct21218]

That is true, but there is plenty of action you can take to get out of your own head.  Pick up a commitment, reach out to the newcomer.

I went through an extremely painful breakup recently and I had a commitment to go to the day after it happened and another lined up the day after a court date.  It kept me busy.   I also spend time volunteering.  When I have other purposes, it keeps me from ruminating and and changes my perspective dramatically.

[RomanticFool]

Let her go. Learn from this. Accept the loss. Start the grieving process.  We will stand with you as you go through it.  It will hurt.  Fear of abandonment is a wicked ass kicker. You can't avoid it when a relationship tanks - you have to swim through it.   

Thank you. I wish there was a way of rekindling this relationship. Are you certain there is no salvaging it? Isn’t the fact she replied to me today some indication that she isn’t entirely done?

I ask this because I wonder if deep down she really loves me and all the pushing me away is temporary. I know that sounds preposterous but I have something she wants; the keys to a career she thought she couldn’t have. She has shown herself to be selfishly pragmatic. I think women like her are extremely rare. I’d love to see if I could do things differently in my fantasy world. I guess ultimately she doesn’t love me or isn’t capable of it. As I said, it’s not black and white. In my heart I know it’s over. I can’t bear life without her.

[Skip]

Thank you. I wish there was a way of rekindling this relationship.

You can probably recycle again before it is over for good.

Are you certain there is no salvaging it? Isn’t the fact she replied to me today some indication that she isn’t entirely done?

She probably isn't done with trying. You aren't done with trying. But neither of you are going to wake up a different person tomorrow and suddenly this will work. You two have tried and neither of you are willing to do what it takes - and both of you would need to make big changes to change the viability of this relatonship.

I ask this because I wonder if deep down she really loves me and all the pushing me away is temporary.

Too good to leave, too bad to stay. That is your relationship. As the time goes on, the "too bad to stay" gets bigger and bigger. It big now.

I know that sounds preposterous but I have something she wants; the keys to a career she thought she couldn’t have. She has shown herself to be selfishly pragmatic.

You could by handcuff and handcuff her to you bed post, too, but this is NOT the way to reverse a toxic relationship.

I’d love to see if I could do things differently in my fantasy world. I guess ultimately she doesn’t love me or isn’t capable of it.

Would you be willing to give her "all the time she needs" to think about the relationship and wait for her to call you? Will you file for a divorce from your wife because its the right thing do, and not make it conditional on AA friend being your girlfriend?  Will you go to therapy to get in touch with your attachment struggles and learn how to respond more constructively to conflict in a relationship? Will you work with members here to learn how to apply relationship tools to keep a relationship stable (at least your role in the relationship - you can't fix other, but they may very well follow)?

Could you do all of this, starting tomorrow?

[RomanticFool]

I’m willing to do all of those things. Indeed I want to learn the tools here properly.

Not sure she is up for a recycle though. She said she has moved on. Remains to be seen whether than means with somebody else. I feel like I want to try things differently.
Even if it doesn’t work with her, I don’t want to be in this position again.

I’m going back to SLAA tomorrow and am going to work on the attachment issues. I am looking for a cheapish therapist at the moment.

A week ago she wanted me to call her. Could she have found someone else in the meantime? Is it possible? Or did she say she has moved on so I would chase her?

I want to get healthy in relationships.

[Skip]

I want to get healthy in relationships.

Those things are about getting healthy.

Call a lawyer, file your divorce. You wife thinks its trial separation.  You know you are done. Set her free. And open the door for yourself to date healthy women. This should have no contingency on it. Do the right thing.

Leave the AA gal alone. Don't block her on social media or make an announcement. Maybe just apologize for being needy (its ok to say this) and tell her you understand if she needs some space.  And then give her the space.

Don't hunt down a cheap therapist - find a good one and go less. You can a lot of work here and have the therapist do the heavy lifting and guide your recovery.

[RomanticFool]

I made a grand gesture yesterday of letting her off the money for the holiday and assuring her she will be credited for the work we did together. On top of that I wished her well. She hasn’t responded any further than the ‘thank you’ so for the moment I’ll leave it at that. It doesn’t seem to be about space this time. I don’t think she is coming back.. I have a strong feeling she has met somebody else. She said she had moved on.

I don’t need a lawyer for a divorce. I can do it online. I will call my wife and speak to her about it.

I’m going to a SLAA meeting today and will see how the land lies there. I still won’t get a sponsor unless I block my ex on all channels. Something I still don’t want to do.

Do you think from what I’ve said she has met someone? I haven’t seen her for over a month and she seems to have distanced herself from me now. Nine days ago (Sunday) she asked me to call her but I didn’t as I was still upset that she had cut me off for two weeks. She got annoyed with me very quickly when I put in the boundary and we had an almighty WhatsApp row. That seems to have been the final straw for her. On Wednesday she cut me off WhatsApp and said she was done and had moved on.

[hmf2234]

One thing from my own experience that I can tell you is that they never ever truly move on. After living together for 3 years with my ex she immediately started hooking up with her ex from 4 years past after we broke up, and she has always kept in touch with him while we were together. Didn't realize it at the time but looking back at it I came to the conclusion her little story about keeping in touch with her ex's friend was really her actually contacting him directly, so she made up a story to not damage our relationship.

She has since moved on and found herself a new puppet to string along and manipulate, when this happened she told me I should move on because she is moving on. She told me this while never admitting that she actually has started a new relationship. I always knew because I see right through her lies and secrets, but ultimately she never admitted it to me. For 8 months she kept in touch with me post breakup because she never really found a true replacement, but once he came along the true NC really began for the first time.

No two people are the same, but considering all the similarities between pwBPD I would assume she is occupied by someone else. No doubt about it. That definitely seems to be the case in my scenario. I assumed I would never hear from her again, but 2 months after NC she tried calling me 3x in a row. I ignored the phone calls for my own sanity and I am maintaining NC. I am finally feeling myself slowly break away from the mental bondage chains she has enslaved me with. I will not compromise my healing by giving into her needs for attention. I refuse to be sucked back in especially since she is with someone else. I will not be an emotional tampon like her previous ex was while she was with me.

End the cycle my friend. It will save you so much turmoil, I wish I knew better throughout this past year. Light that bridge and never look back no matter how impossible your urges to contact her are. Healing is not pretty, it is an ugly beast you have to battle... but once you suffer through the process the other side is absolutely beautiful!