How should I word this?

[kiwigal]

I know so many of us here are facing the holiday angst.
It creates so much trauma in our bodies, and I find that it raises a PTSD response in me, which shuts down my ability to think with any amount of clarity.
Thats one of the reasons Im so thankful for this board.

My question is.. my in laws have this party in a couple of weeks. Just a few weeks ago my brother in law rung me and ranted to me and quite frankly, he was borderline abusive. I held my own, and kept repeating the same bottom line rhetoric: "If you'd like to talk and understand, we can do that with a counsellor"
He is not BPD.. just very enmeshed into BPD with his wife and my mother in law who are both narcissistic.

This party is at his house, and its a big thing Im going. My mother in law text me and asked if we could turn up an hour early, so the grandkids could play together, and we could get some photos. It sounds reasonable enough, except its awkward as can be, and any kind of 'faking it' gets misconstrued as "its all okay". Im wanting to avoid falling back into false agreement, at all costs.

But I also don't want to get into explaining myself either. How do I communicate a nice boundary, and say politely "no"?

[Harri]

How about something simple like:

Oh, unfortunately that timing will not work for us.  I am sure we will be able to carve out some time during the party.

Thoughts?

[kiwigal]

Hi Harri.
Im so thankful for your input. You've been a rock to me here.

I just tried that and got the response that you can imagine any BPD person gives ie, "these are my expectations".. "here is why"... "You need to give me more reasons"

Ugh.  I feel like Im going to have to disengage for my sanity.

A counsellor I spoke to months ago told me "its not your husbands job to get through to her (my mother in law), but you can if you insist". Im beginning to question that.
Does that even work when you're not blood?
I am really querying that counsel as my experience is, that when you aren't blood, you're nothing.

I am also done on trying to negotiate with someone who disregards my boundaries and then tries to put things back on me. This is not the first time it has happened in the lead up to this celebration and I am not sure I can even do relationship anymore. It's been such an exhausting and painful ordeal trying to keep my head above water in a family system that is invalidating, toxic and blaming. The thing is, is that I am sensitive and empathic soul and that part of me needs guarding. I don't want to lose it.. maybe I need to go 'no contact' for a while?

[kiwigal]

Ps. I should add that regarding doing photos during the evening.. She wants photos prior of just the grandkids. Then photos during of the family. And of the guests. Her reasoning for not wanting to do them all at the same time was something along the lines of not wanting guests who don't have grandkids to feel like they are 'showing off'.
(Never mind that they are getting all their grandkids to perform during the evening!)

I would have felt better about this, if this were an expectation communicated up front. But it is not what we agreed to.
We agreed to turn up, to come as a family with a special performance ready and to make it a special evening. So Im resentful of feeling like the expectations are on her terms.

[Harri]

 

I can understand her wanting to have time for pictures of the kids before everyone else gets there but if you don't want to go then don't.  The chances of her accepting what you said and not pushing back were pretty slim right?  He acceptance is not a requirement for saying 'no that does not work for us we will be there at ___ time" unless you let it be.

I know I said that pretty bluntly.  I do not mean to be harsh here.  Boundaries do not need to be respected for them to work.  Sure it is the ideal and you would think it would be enough to say no, however you are dealing with a woman who can't accept that and has proven that she will push back. 

She can debate, argue and try to make demands all she wants.  You do not need to respond or change your plans or explain yourself to her.   Work on being firm in your response and let her have her reaction.  The more you try to explain and be heard, the more it will back fire on you and the more difficult things will become.

So Im resentful of feeling like the expectations are on her terms.

I think a lot of people would feel this way.  There is a choice though.  You can let the resentment fuel your responses or you can accept that she is who she is and then respond with boundaries that protect you and your own family.   There is another choice where you can go early and take pictures and continue to use boundaries to protect yourself.  Again, she can make all the demands she wants and have all sorts of expectations.  That she does so does not need to govern your response. 

Change things up.  She tries to set the rules, you come up with your own that match your values.   

Does that make sense?

[GaGrl]

So many expectations!

As to the must-have for reasons, say more, etc. -- here is where we say...

"No" is a complete sentence.

You don't owe her anything more than a confirmation you will be there at a time that works for you.

[kiwigal]

Awww

[Harri]

Hi kiwigal, how are you doing?  I can't tell from your last post.

[kiwigal]

Hi Harri.
I am sorry, I wrote far more than that. But for some reason it didn't post.
I am so grateful for this thread and your help here.
Your message to me, shifted something in me.
After I processed, I wrote this (to myself):

Dear Problem.
I’ve never thought much about how to describe you.
At times you seemed so large, so looming, so terrifying. Like a shadow ready to pounce the moment I upset you. It was easy to upset you, I learned: Simply don’t comply.
Then in the days to come, I questioned myself as empathy filled my being and I saw you as hurting. And then you seemed so small. Just a dose of compliance away from calm.
I learnt you had companions. If I upset you, I upset your crew. We sometimes call that crew, the monkeys. Only your monkeys aren’t funny. Or cute.
But back to you. I’ve noticed something.
Sometimes I can move away from you.
I just say, “This is what I need”. Then I move towards my needs. That’s it, really.
Sometimes when I do that, you are really demanding. You start throwing questions at me, lots of them. They are like your weapon of choice. You put on a big person judge hat and demand that I sit in the chair of accused while I undergo interrogation. When I see your court room, I sometimes feel so helpless.
But here’s the thing, problem. Whenever we are in the ‘room’, it’s the same rhetoric. You sit their demanding what you need: control.
Yet I’ve noticed something. If I stop explaining, if I stop engaging, it is like your guards of guilt and obligation let their grip go, and I get passed a little note from my other self that say’s; ‘Don’t forget you can walk out of here’.
You know what, Problem?
When I walk out of that room, I am reminded that we all have a choice.
So, I’m changing my relationship with you.
Firstly, at the moment, I am healing. Healing both of my fear of speaking up and the wounds I’ve born from yourself.
So, I give myself permission to heal. To find flowers and beauty and sunshine. To choose softly. To give my energy to where it matters most.
To step aside and get space from your storm.
I won’t create a false shelter for you by being obliging.
Because you, like me, get to choose.
It’s time for you, Problem, to grow up.
I pray you will learn to recognise true relationship can exist, without control.
For now, I accept the invitation towards becoming centred and whole and being myself.
Regards. Me.

For now I am going to step aside and let hubby negotiate the terms of the photo stuff.. it's easy.. we will turn up a little early to get some, and that's that. I need to disengage for a while so I can stay away from opening myself up to negotiation and control. When its safe, I'll pick up back where things were: polite, superficial and free

[kiwigal]

So many expectations!

As to the must-have for reasons, say more, etc. -- here is where we say...

"No" is a complete sentence.

You don't owe her anything more than a confirmation you will be there at a time that works for you.

I loved this SO much "No is a complete sentence". Woah thats powerful. It gave me permission to acknowledge for myself that I always have a good reason to decline, I don't need to explain it! So good, thank you!

[kiwigal]

Ps, Harri.. THIS:
"Change things up.  She tries to set the rules, you come up with your own that match your values"

That was such a new idea for me!
Can you give me an example? Id really love to develop this skill.

[Imatter33]

The letter to yourself is so powerful. Happy to have found that today. I love this community!

You sounded in control as you wrote that, how are you feeling as the holiday gets closer?

[Harri]

For now I am going to step aside and let hubby negotiate the terms of the photo stuff.. it's easy.. we will turn up a little early to get some, and that's that. I need to disengage for a while so I can stay away from opening myself up to negotiation and control. When its safe, I'll pick up back where things were: polite, superficial and free

"Change things up.  She tries to set the rules, you come up with your own that match your values"

That was such a new idea for me!
Can you give me an example? Id really love to develop this skill.

You already did it!      See the first quote.  *That* is changing things up.  

I hate to use the term game but I will.  We often say we are in a no win game with our pwBPD.  That is true if you look at it from the perspective of it being a game and you allow them to set the rules for your behavior in an effort to appease, not rock the boat, keep them from dysregulating, etc.  Now I am not saying to act in ways that will rile them up or cause more conflict but come up with your own ideas for how you can meet your needs and theirs with as little conflict as possible while also maintaining your your own choices and power to make those choices.  

Changing it up involves a combination of many things:  radical acceptance, multiple tools and a willingness to allow the other person to have responsibility for their own self.  

Does that make sense?

Oh and your letter had me sitting here with tears in my eyes and a big smile on my face too.  Thanks for sharing.

[kiwigal]

Awww you know what? This is like having your own personal coach saying "You DID IT" and I feel soo empowered. Thank you!   

[kiwigal]

The letter to yourself is so powerful. Happy to have found that today. I love this community!

You sounded in control as you wrote that, how are you feeling as the holiday gets closer?

  I LOVE this community too. It's been a lifeline. I am feeling okay about the holiday - but can I just say, I am SO looking forward to having it behind me

It was so freeing to write that letter. It came out of me almost as if I had another very assured side of me, that was finally being set free. Earlier that day I had literally sobbed my heart out on my mothers shoulder. I felt like I had no fight left in me. She didn't say much. She just held me and reminded me I didn't have to face them. After she left, I had come here to read Harri's words and something written just 'clicked' in me. A clarity. We really aren't meant to walk these roads alone and we get so much strength from each other  Thank you for sharing your encouraging words with me. How are you doing? From one warrior to another x