Scared of Living with my BPDgf

[strugglingBF]

So my uBPDgf and I used to live in the same household.  She and her two kids (18M and 20F) and me and my two kids (12F and 14M).  Due to an assault of my GF's daughter on my son, we have since split households and live separately.  GF's daughter is suspected BPD and most definitely narcissist.  GF parents her out of fear of how far she will take actions (numerous bouts of aggressiveness and major disrespect toward me and her mother while living together).  I struggle with a number of thoughts when thinking about the future:

1. GF's daughter is very unstable, can't hold a job, got her first DUI and totaled her car a couple weeks ago, can't stay in school, dropped out of Ross Medical school.  Hangs with a generally future-less crowd and is drinking and smoking (weed) herself into the gutter.  I will NEVER live with GF's daughter and I have made that clear.  If I ever decided to live with GF again, I will always feel uneasy that GF's daughter will not make it on her own and look to move back in with mom.  This creates a lot of fear and uneasiness in me just thinking about the possibility.  Yes, GF's D is only 20...but she shows no signs of learning any lessons, showing any remorse, etc.  She cares about herself only and participates in all her relationships (including that with her mother) only to the point of getting what she needs out of you.  Talking to her about anything is like talking to a 10 year old in a 20 year old's body. 

2. GF is BPD and I worry about ever occupying the same house with her again.  My son is on the negative side of her splitting, which can create uneasiness and uncomfortability in him in his own home (she targeted him almost daily with some type of unnecessary criticism when we lived together).  Her splitting got so bad with him on occasion that I would ask her to leave our home, or I would lose my temper on her as well...which only made things worse.  Her splitting was and is always worse when her daughter is acting up, which is almost a weekly occurrence.  Almost as is she needs something on my side of the relationship (my son) to make a villain and equal the chaos her daughter is causing. 

I worry about these things because my life was in such constant chaos when we lived together (BPDgf and her daughter create quite a combo and feed off eachother), and since they moved out I at least have a safe haven for me and my kids in our house.  I am so much more comfortable in my home now, and I worry about screwing it up again.  I need to be able to raise my kids in a stable environment free of constant blow-ups, police calls, etc. 

All this being said, it would be nice to have some kind of plan to eventually live with my GF again (if we make it, which is the goal at the moment).  BTW...GF refuses to go to therapy to work on our relationship (I stay away from the BPD topic, but figure if I can just get into couples therapy it will rear its head regardless).  She knows our previous therapist suspected her of it, which makes her even more defensive.  She will come up with the strangest reasons not to go to therapy.  For example, last nights reason was, "I am not going to therapy until this relationship starts getting better first"...which usually involves me changing in ways X, Y and Z.  Basically, I need to start showing improvement in her eyes before she will agree to couples therapy.  Then she proceeds to tell me all the reasons she thinks I need solo therapy, and that I don't know who I am.  All while I sit there dumbfounded. 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Rev]

All this being said, it would be nice to have some kind of plan to eventually live with my GF again .

Hi my friend...

I would invite you to try something.

Have a friend read this out to you like you were their therapist.

If you can't read it to yourself out loud in front of a mirror.

What might you say to them?

Rev

[strugglingBF]

Glutton for punishment, I guess.

[Ozzie101]

What about for your children (particularly your son)?

You say your goal is to someday be able to live with your GF again. What would your requirements be? What would need to happen in order for that to be something you'd do?

[Rev]

Glutton for punishment, I guess.

With all due respect, you have children who are minors in this situation.  Your words belie a certain level of lack of awareness of their needs.

In the part of the world I live in, what you describe here is warrants a call to youth protection.

Perhaps I am wrong and maybe you are not sharing the complete picture. I myself have found myself minimising in my own Therapy at some point and stayed in a relationship that was abusive. So I'm naming my baggage here. But I work with the public in the mental health field. I would rather err on the side of caution.

I mean this in the most sincere friendship. These relationships are very, very difficult to remove from our minds. Part of the defense of a pwBPD goes beyond "convincing" you of their "facts" - they arrange that you actually absorb them into your very being. For this reason, there are people in my field who will never offer help to people with BPD without proper safeguards for their practice in place.

Rev

[Rev]

What about for your children (particularly your son)?

You say your goal is to someday be able to live with your GF again. What would your requirements be? What would need to happen in order for that to be something you'd do?

Yes Ozzie!

[strugglingBF]

I really would need her to approach that relationship in a positive manner.  Most of her interactions seem to be intended to focus on things he doesn't do (play sports, clean his dinner plate, etc.).  She should lift him up for the things he does do well or has interest in (grades, band, video games).  She thinks he plays video games too much.  To an extent she might be right.  He loves video games and his friends play, so they play online together with headsets so they can talk.  He just isn't a sports kid.  He isn't the type of kid to go play outside for a couple hours, like my daughter.  My daughter also has friends in the neighborhood (my son doesn't).  And girls just usually are not into video games, so my daughter's focus is on different interests (Tik Tok, facetiming with friends, etc.).  My son gets good grades and is a very kind and sensitive kid (aside from the normal teenage indifference occasionally).  But mild indifference from him is blown out of proportion by my GF.  My son can be quiet at a dinner table and my GF will tell me later he was super rude and disrespectful for not joining in on the conversation. Basically, unless he plays a sport, runs a mile, does 20 push-ups, is super outgoing (which isn't him)...my GF will find something to pick at.  He has been a target our whole relationship.  When we lived together, if he hung out on the first floor with a tablet or something (using headphones) she would ask him why he wants to hang out on the 1st floor and if you are going to use a tablet why not use it in your room.  Meanwhile, my GF's daughter walked around the house daily FaceTiming boys and girls with her phone on speaker so everyone in the house had to hear her entire conversation (consistently containing profanities) and all the background noise from the house of whomever she was talking to.  If I politely asked her to put headphones in I was accused of being an evil dictator of the house and targeting her daughter.  I could go on and on with inconsistencies in my GF's thinking (especially between our kids) that would blow your mind.  The funny thing is my daughter is more of the back-talker hot head type (not anywhere close to the scale of her kids) and my GF gets along with her better.  My son is more reserved and quiet and still can't fly under her radar.

So I think to myself...if we ever live together again (with her daughter of course on her own somewhere else) I am going to have a pretty short fuse with regards to treatment of my son.  I let too much go when we lived together before.  I am in a stronger place now and will not tolerate making my son uncomfortable in his own home.  Thing I worry about is if my GF can actually control it.  Can she control her treatment (splitting) toward my son.  It makes me very uneasy.  I guess it is an option to live apart till both of our kids are on their own.  Problem is that can be 6-10 years if I project out my youngest going to college for 4 years and being in and out of my home during that time period.  

[strugglingBF]

In the part of the world I live in, what you describe here is warrants a call to youth protection.

Perhaps I am wrong and maybe you are not sharing the complete picture. I myself have found myself minimising in my own Therapy at some point and stayed in a relationship that was abusive. So I'm naming my baggage here. But I work with the public in the mental health field. I would rather err on the side of caution.

I mean this in the most sincere friendship. These relationships are very, very difficult to remove from our minds. Part of the defense of a pwBPD goes beyond "convincing" you of their "facts" - they arrange that you actually absorb them into your very being. For this reason, there are people in my field who will never offer help to people with BPD without proper safeguards for their practice in place.

Rev

Rev, you make very good points that make me question my behavior and acceptance of the "reality" or "world" my GF has created around me.  CPS has been out to my house 3-4 times in the past 3 years, mostly due to situations that didn't involve my kids.  But their concern is for any kid in the house, not just which ones were involved in the situation.  So my kids have been forced to have confused involvement in CPS interviews in the past.  I am a person that just wants to live in a quiet corner of the world where I can enjoy my kids, family, friends, interests IN PEACE.  Dating a BPD has totally turned my world and how I view it upside down.  I think you said this in different words, but they create an alternate reality around you that you begin to accept because of your care and love for that person.  I have actually told myself at times in the past 4 years, "maybe more people live like this than I realized growing up, and maybe I have just had it good until bringing this person (my GF) into my life."  Silly reasoning isn't it?  I realize that now, but when you are in the thick of it you convince yourself otherwise.  This person (my GF) has had police calls/involvement in her life almost constantly, regardless of the person she was dating at the time.  I think almost all of her relationships, at least the ones that lasted past the honeymoon phase, had police involvement at least once.  She is the common denominator to all of them. 

[Ozzie101]

If I were you, I'd make a list. Some of them hard, tangible things, like GF's D not living in the home. Ever. A detailed, extensive list. Take some time doing it so you cover all bases. Post it here for feedback. Then, take a hard, brutally honest look at it. How many items on the list are likely to happen?

Your priority and focus should be on your children. Your son is the target, but your daughter is in this, too. Even if GF treats her well, do you want her to grow up to accept a relationship with a person who treats her the way GF treats you or your son? Children tend to repeat the relationship models placed before them. Just something else to think about.

It's good that you see that your son should feel safe and comfortable in his home. And I'm glad you saw that and moved out. What's the likelihood that her attitude will change?

[strugglingBF]

Reading my posts back out loud.  I have made too many excuses for my BPDgf, both now and over the years, sometimes to the detriment to me and my kids.  This troubles me inside and makes me feel like a bad father.  My kids should be first and foremost in my mind, and I have failed at that numerous times over the past 4 years.  I have put my GF and her ridiculous ultimatums and behaviors before my kids and it isn't ok.  I try to make everyone happy, but GF first and then my kids at times...because my GF has the capability of making my life much worse than my kids do (if that makes sense).  I should have split our households much sooner than I did, and it took my son getting assaulted by her daughter for me to wake up.  Pretty crappy I let it get that far.  BTW...GF's daughter was charged with 2 counts of domestic assault and did 6 months of probation.  They let her off probation early, and honestly they didn't get her any of the help she needs.  

[Ozzie101]

have actually told myself at times in the past 4 years, "maybe more people live like this than I realized growing up, and maybe I have just had it good until bringing this person (my GF) into my life."  Silly reasoning isn't it?  I realize that now, but when you are in the thick of it you convince yourself otherwise.

I've been there! You're not alone in that. The wake-up call is not a nice one, is it? And it can take time and effort to detangle and get out of the fog.

This person (my GF) has had police calls/involvement in her life almost constantly, regardless of the person she was dating at the time.  I think almost all of her relationships, at least the ones that lasted past the honeymoon phase, had police involvement at least once.  She is the common denominator to all of them.

This should tell you a lot about her potential to change and your possible future. I'm not saying it's hopeless. We've seen some pretty bad situations turn around. But really, really think about it and keep this fact in mind when you're considering her and your kids, especially.

[Ozzie101]

Don't be too hard on yourself, struggling. You're not alone. I can say most of us here have made mistakes and mishandled priorities. Don't focus on that. Focus on the future and what you can do now.

I have put my GF and her ridiculous ultimatums and behaviors before my kids and it isn't ok.  I try to make everyone happy, but GF first and then my kids at times...because my GF has the capability of making my life much worse than my kids do (if that makes sense).

It absolutely makes sense. It's kind of like they say, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." The trick is in not neglecting or ignoring the wheel that runs smoothly.

When I was growing up, the sister just younger than I am (who I now suspect of having some sort of PD) was the "squeaky" wheel. I was the quiet, compliant, obedient one. She was the one who threw tantrums. My grandparents were concerned that I would be overlooked or neglected in some way because of that. They'd seen it happen with my grandfather's brother and his two daughters. My parents are wise people, though, and I never felt neglected. This is sort of like that. You're in crisis control mode. Relationships with BPD tend to be very intense and reality-bending. You're starting to realize that now. Go with it.

[strugglingBF]

If I were you, I'd make a list. Some of them hard, tangible things, like GF's D not living in the home. Ever. A detailed, extensive list. Take some time doing it so you cover all bases. Post it here for feedback. Then, take a hard, brutally honest look at it. How many items on the list are likely to happen?

Your priority and focus should be on your children. Your son is the target, but your daughter is in this, too. Even if GF treats her well, do you want her to grow up to accept a relationship with a person who treats her the way GF treats you or your son? Children tend to repeat the relationship models placed before them. Just something else to think about.

It's good that you see that your son should feel safe and comfortable in his home. And I'm glad you saw that and moved out. What's the likelihood that her attitude will change?

You hit on one of my biggest fears...the example and model I am creating for my kids.  I was lucky enough to have parents that adored eachother and treated eachother respectfully.  I can remember maybe 2 fights between my parents growing up.  My kids have probably witnessed 100 between me and my GF with varying degrees of intensity.  I can't even describe to you how often this crosses my mind.  There are times I will talk to my kids about relationships, usually after they might have witnessed a fight or unusual behavior from my GF (splitting, etc.).   They are kids that have no concept of BPD.  To them they are probably really confused how an adult can act that way, so this is when I try to smooth things over.  In all honesty, protecting my GF's image sometimes more than I should.  

[strugglingBF]

Ozzie, I like your list idea.  I think I will do that exercise and post it here eventually.

[Ozzie101]

They are kids that have no concept of BPD.  To them they are probably really confused how an adult can act that way, so this is when I try to smooth things over.  In all honesty, protecting my GF's image sometimes more than I should. 

What would you think about sharing some things about BPD with them? We have other posters who have dealt with that issue and have threads about it. Not an area in which I have any expertise. But have you looked through the forums? You're likely to find some advice there. Or start a new thread asking that question specifically.

I like your list idea.  I think I will do that exercise and post it here eventually.

I hope you will! I know it often helps me to put things down and look at them in black and white.

[Rev]

  She is the common denominator to all of them. 

Dude,

I have read all your posts... congratulations to you for doing so much soul searching before you even posted all of this.

There is soo much research about the deep seeded stuff in men that prevents us from naming stuff like this.

Keep at this - keep reaching out...  the strongest power you will ever exert is the power of steely resolve to just do the right thing in silence out there - but in full view in here.  Your voice here = carry it in your heart out there.

We are so in your corner.

Total fist pump on this one = and a big hug.

Rev