My Mum is impossible to deal with (and I fear suicidal) HELP needed

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello, this is my first post, I’m at my wits end and would appreciate any advice.

For years I thought my mum had NPD but I’m realising it’s maybe more BPD with narc traits.

I haven’t really got any nice memories of her growing up even though I lived with her until I was 18. That’s not saying she was all bad I just have no memories except the dramatic things did like throwing me out the house, slapping me, raging and taking my things she had bought etc etc. And of course her attempted suicide when I was 15 because I went out with my friends.

In short she wasn’t a mother to us.

She hates when we have opinions that don’t match hers and gets very defensive about her own views and will never agree to disagree. She sees it a personal attack. Even us liking our own father after they separated or liking his partners would be a slap and thrown out the house.

She has tried to separate my sister from her partner on numerous occasions because she doesn’t like him (he’s a very opinionated man) even two weeks after my sister gave birth to their second child.
She hates my brothers ex wife because she has stopped her seeing her grandchild (at my brothers request) as she is not healthy for him. She hates that I speak to my brothers ex (like a sister to me) and even left her a voicemail recently saying there will be consequences if she doesn’t leave me and my sister alone!
My brother is No Contact and so is my sister as of recently. I have been NC for many years of my adult life. But since I moved abroad I have tried to have some relationship.

The issue now is that she wants this intense relationship with me, messages me every day, across all social media and email. If I don’t reply within a day she accuses me of ignoring her for weeks and says I’m selfish. I even screenshotted the dates of when we spoke to say we spoke everyday not weeks? And she says ‘oh you have time to do that but not message me back’

I’ve had to mute my notifications as it gives me severe anxiety seeing her name pop up on my phone all the time, commenting on everything I do. If I take a trip and didn’t tell her prior she says I’m keeping things from her and gets upset.

She says all the time ‘everyone says how lovely I am and how awful you are to me’. All I’ve ever asked is that she stops messaging me so much as I have two jobs and study and a partner. She says she is my mother and should come before all all those things!

She said she is a victim and we have bullied her all our lives. We were good kids. We were terrified of her and all left home at the first chance we got.

She’s been sending me abuse all over Christmas and NY and I don’t know what to do anymore.

If I go NC she will probably either harass me as she does my brother (found out all his fiancée info and their address etc so he now has a restraining order) or harm herself as she keeps saying ‘when I’m dead..’ or ‘this will be the death of me’ ‘ you’ll be happy then’

Sorry this is so long, thank you to anyone who has read it.

[SunnyVale]

Hello, this is my first post, I’m at my wits end and would appreciate any advice.

For years I thought my mum had NPD but I’m realising it’s maybe more BPD with narc traits.

I haven’t really got any nice memories of her growing up even though I lived with her until I was 18. That’s not saying she was all bad I just have no memories except the dramatic things did like throwing me out the house, slapping me, raging and taking my things she had bought etc etc. And of course her attempted suicide when I was 15 because I went out with my friends.

In short she wasn’t a mother to us.

She hates when we have opinions that don’t match hers and gets very defensive about her own views and will never agree to disagree. She sees it a personal attack. Even us liking our own father after they separated or liking his partners would be a slap and thrown out the house.

She has tried to separate my sister from her partner on numerous occasions because she doesn’t like him (he’s a very opinionated man) even two weeks after my sister gave birth to their second child.
She hates my brothers ex wife because she has stopped her seeing her grandchild (at my brothers request) as she is not healthy for him. She hates that I speak to my brothers ex (like a sister to me) and even left her a voicemail recently saying there will be consequences if she doesn’t leave me and my sister alone!
My brother is No Contact and so is my sister as of recently. I have been NC for many years of my adult life. But since I moved abroad I have tried to have some relationship.

The issue now is that she wants this intense relationship with me, messages me every day, across all social media and email. If I don’t reply within a day she accuses me of ignoring her for weeks and says I’m selfish. I even screenshotted the dates of when we spoke to say we spoke everyday not weeks? And she says ‘oh you have time to do that but not message me back’

I’ve had to mute my notifications as it gives me severe anxiety seeing her name pop up on my phone all the time, commenting on everything I do. If I take a trip and didn’t tell her prior she says I’m keeping things from her and gets upset.

She says all the time ‘everyone says how lovely I am and how awful you are to me’. All I’ve ever asked is that she stops messaging me so much as I have two jobs and study and a partner. She says she is my mother and should come before all all those things!

She said she is a victim and we have bullied her all our lives. We were good kids. We were terrified of her and all left home at the first chance we got.

She’s been sending me abuse all over Christmas and NY and I don’t know what to do anymore.

If I go NC she will probably either harass me as she does my brother (found out all his fiancée info and their address etc so he now has a restraining order) or harm herself as she keeps saying ‘when I’m dead..’ or ‘this will be the death of me’ ‘ you’ll be happy then’

Sorry this is so long, thank you to anyone who has read it.

[Methuen]

Hi Sunnyvale

Welcome to our bpdfamily.

(I like calling this site family cs. we all support each other here, which is what healthy families do with each other. Hence this site is a kind of family for some of us.)

First I want to say I am sorry you are going through this.  It sounds like you are abroad, which is already a change that brings stress of its own, although hopefully there is some adventure there too.

The issue now is that she wants this intense relationship with me, messages me every day, across all social media and email. If I don’t reply within a day she accuses me of ignoring her for weeks and says I’m selfish.

As a pwBPD, it could also be that she's suffering anxiety and a sense of abandonment with you being far away.  By texting you every day, maybe she's having her own high emotional needs met.  My mom does this too, and she lives in the same town as me.  I'm an only child.  When my mom was driving more (she doesn't drive as much in the winter because she's afraid), she was showing up at our house at the most inopportune times unannounced (on top of all the unrelated daily texting), and completely unaware of high maintenance and abnormal this is for a mother.  It's absolutely suffocating.  I get what you are going through.  If I tried saying anything gently to mom, she would fly off the handle like you described your mom does, and say a bunch of crazy irrational mean things.

It's not quite that bad for me right now for a few reasons.  But it probably will get bad again (later rather than sooner is my best hope).

Your mom's texting every day could also maybe be an extinction burst since you are now abroad?  

I’ve had to mute my notifications

Good for you

If I don’t reply within a day she accuses me of ignoring her for weeks and says I’m selfish.

Personally I would ignore these comments from your mom, as your replying to them is just adding fuel to the fire, and keeps her returning with even more damaging comments.  And so it goes, and the relationship continues to be damaging.

The best reply to these comments from her is silence.  It sends a strong message.  She may get worse for a while (extinction burst), but then hopefully it subsides.  That will work with email, but Facebook and social media are another ball of wax since they have a wider public audience that your mom could possibly use as a platform (worst case scenario).  Has that ever happened?  

On the other hand, a better approach if you want to try and maintain a relationship with your mom, is: if she sends you a message that isn't negative and harmful, I would reward that behavior with a reply.  

If that happens enough times, she will figure it out.  It's straight behavioral theory - kind of like Pavlov and his dogs.  Reward the positive behavior.  Ignore the bad behavior.

 

I even screenshotted the dates of when we spoke to say we spoke everyday not weeks?

This is called JADEing.  Your are justifing and explaining.  That doesn't work with a BPD, which is why you got the following reply:

‘oh you have time to do that but not message me back’

This is an example of the distorted thinking of a BPD.  You can't rationalize, explain, defend, argue or justify like you do with a BP, because their thinking is distorted.  It's part of the disease.  So these communication skills that work with healthy people (JADE), only serve to make a bad situation even worse with a BP.

Instead, try validation, validating questions, SET, etc.  

https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/04.htm
https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

BPD's have trouble with emotional regulation.  If your mom is behaving like this right now, there's a good chance she's dysregulated.  Using SET and validation skills, and NOT JADEing, won't "fix" your mom, but it can help you navigate a relationship with her so that there are hopefully fewer crises, or less intense crises.

The other thing you can do, is just let her be, and eventually she will self-sooth, or get over it (until the next time she dysregulates).  

The main thing is to keep yourself emotionally safe.  Being abroad helps keep a physical distance.  Until she self-soothes, it sounds like you could use some emotional distance as well.

Take care.  

[TelHill]

Hello SunnyVale & Welcome!  

My mother was diagnosed with bpd a few years ago, but she's had it ever since I can remember. She refuses therapy. She does take meds because she believes her mental illnesses are depression and anxiety only.

My mom is verbally aggressive and rages when she believes someone has insulted her or is abandoning her.   This happens often. She insults me, screams at me and gives me the silent treatment.   It's hard for her to regulate her emotions.

I've been NC/LC most of my adult life, until the last few years. I am now a pt caregiver. I vacillate in my decision to go NC/LC or remain in the caregiver role. I feel a strong bond of love towards her. However, I don't trust her and dislike her behavior. I am scared of her sometimes, to be honest.  She has gotten worse with age.

There are lots of great tips and tools to how to react to a bpd parent's behavior that are accessible on the tabs above. The tools I found most helpful were to keep boundaries (for example, tell her very little about my life) https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries and keeping away from the Karpman Drama Triangle (for example, my mom does not like me washing my hair when I'm here. I would tell my dad - I have an oily scalp like you, can't you explain that to her or yell at her to knock off her crazy hair washing talk; I ignore her taunts about my hair washing. I wash my hair. Her anger fades in a minute this way. It would simmer for a long when I participated in the Drama Triangle)   https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

When she threatens suicide, you may wish to ask her if she needs you to call 911 to keep herself safe. You are concerned she might harm herself. You are not a psychiatrist or social worker. They have training and experience to help her in a crisis.

I hope things work out for you. I know how painful and difficult it is to have a bpd mom.  Take care.  

[Woolspinner2000]

Welcome SunnyVale, 

I'm really glad that you reached out to us here. Thank you for sharing some of your story! It can be hard to begin to reach out to others, especially when you have been raised by someone who shows signs of BPD. I also had a uBPDm (undiagnosed BPDmom), and one of the challenges I have had (and many others here too) is learning who I can trust. Our online family here is very understanding of what you are going through, and they are good listeners. You will be safe to share here.

Methuen and TelHill have shared some good thoughts. Here we often encourage that you set some boundaries on phone messages and texts, just as has been mentioned. Boundaries are for keeping you safe, and don't expect that your mom will respect them. In fact, a pwBPD will often push harder against them, so stand firm in what you wish for yourself to keep you safe physically, emotionally, and whatever other ways you need to keep safe. A suggestion for you would be to tell your mom that you will text/call/whatever you set up on X day each week. You get to pick the day. She will text and call and send nasty grams to try and get a response from you, but stay firm and don't respond until the time you set up. Also I would not go back and read her messages that she sends during that time. You might even be able to block them on your phone. It's terrible to feel such fear when their name appears on your phone!

What do you think of that idea? Will it be helpful?

 
Wools

[SunnyVale]

Wow thank you so much for the responses. It’s so good to hear this from people who understand the behaviour of BPD. It’s taken me a long time to realise that using normal communication doesn’t work effectively, and as pointed out I am even still trying to do it without realising.


I will take all your info on board.

I have tried numerous times to set boundaries with her and the cycle is I say it, she rages about me being so horrible to suggest we only speak a couple times a month, the she acts like it never happened and back to harassing me with messages.
I have tried to explain to her that we do not and will not have this idealic relationship she wants due to our past, I have told her I forgive her the past if we can move forward. But we can’t move forward because her behaviour is the same. I said this before I realised she was BPD and thought she was just a bad person.

The sad thing is she genuinely believes her own side of this and I can see how hurt she is. But it is very unhealthy for me and puts me in a terrible headspace that effects my relationships here.

I am the other side of the world and terrified of her turning up at my door or getting a call that she has harmed herself.

She is due to come out in 10 days for a holiday (that I had no real say on obviously) for six weeks! I’m literally terrified. She’s told me she is cancelling the holiday and I have to pay her back £6k for the money she will loose. She won’t cancel it but I wish she would. What should I say to her?

She has had my grandma leave me a message (her mother is an enabler) saying I need to call mum as she isn’t sure what’s happening - obviously my mum left out the part where she has sent me essays of abuse.

I am receiving messages from her friends calling me a terrible person and how can I be doing this to my mum!

I just don’t know how to even respond to my mums messages at the moment and more and more come when I don’t respond. I feel like I’m 15 again not 31.

I don’t think I want a relationship with her but is that selfish? I get nothing positive from the relationship only stress and depression.
But it’s a disorder so is it fair to have no contact? If a relative had a physical disability you would make the effort and do what you can to make their life easier even if it made yours harder, so does that apply here too?

[Methuen]

But it’s a disorder so is it fair to have no contact?

Personally, I don't think NC is about "fairness". 

I think it's about safety.  I think the bigger question is do you feel safe with her?  Physical safety is only a part of the equation, the other part is emotional safety.

In some relationships, a person may not feel safe if they are being abused, physically, sexually, financially, and/or emotionally.

Safety is a basic human need, and also a human right. 

When someone doesn't feel safe in a relationship, something needs to change in the situation for them to feel safe again.

For some people that change may involve low/no contact.   Everybody's situation is slightly different, and we all have to figure out what level of contact with the BPD SO works for us, and/or what strategies we can use to manage a relationship with our BPD family member.  So there's no easy answer to your question.

As for fairness, a lot of things in life aren't fair.  We only have to look around the globe, in our own country, in our communities, on our street, and in our own homes to see that a lot of things are unfair that are beyond our control.  Our mother's BPD is unfortunate, but it doesn't excuse them for mistreating or abusing us.

Safety comes first.  We have to look after ourselves so we can look after our own children.  That is one way we can break the cycle.

Our mom's are adults, and ultimately responsible for their own behavior and decisions.

She’s told me she is cancelling the holiday and I have to pay her back £6k for the money she will loose. She won’t cancel it but I wish she would. What should I say to her?

This is tough because you are overseas, and 6 weeks is a really long time.  I don't have a good answer.  The best suggestion I have is:

"Mom, it sounds like you are saying you need to cancel the trip.  The value of the ticket is good for one year from the date of purchase, so you will be able to rebook it at a future date."

Others on this board will probably have a better idea.  That's all I have. If nothing else, it buys you time to regroup and think.