uBDP wife broke law, now threatening divorce, 2 kids

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I found out that my uBPD wife, with whom I have two children, about 8 and 10 years old, had made at least one illegal audio recording of a conversation we had on our property in the last month or so. I caught her the same day because I walked past her later that day and, still being emotionally dysregulated, she let me listen to the recording. I have no concerns over the recording's content. We live in a two-party consent state, so this crime is punishable by 12 to 14 months in jail, or a fine. For evidence, she e-mailed me admitting she was recording me, threatening to use it against me by having a lawyer listen to it, and saying she was going to continue recording me no matter what. It has shut down verbal communication almost entirely, so we use written communications now. She had also told me to go ahead and call the police after she revealed the recording to me (I only called the police later, to find out my options, but not to immediately press charges).

I had told her previously that recording me is illegal without my consent and/or awareness, and that none if it can be used in court, not that it would help her anyway. At the time, she was perpetuating an argument, and I was trying to leave. (I admit I should have just left sooner, though when I finally tried, she prevented me from doing so by opening my vehicle's door. Eventually I was able to close and lock it, before safely driving away.)

There are many unknowns about what might happen if I press charges, and lots of things a lawyer would probably advise me of. I'm aware it will further trigger my wife, who has already began filing for divorce. My main concerns are for my children. Pressing charges could help a custody case later, perhaps, if things come to that. I am a good and very present father for my kids. Seems like having things on official record could only help, if she doesn't throw false allegations at me in retaliation. She is a pretty severe case but at the extreme end. But also, pressing charges holds her accountable to the law, and shows her I will not tolerate illegal activity, nor threats against and her continued recording behaviors. The officer acknowledged that my high functioning uBPD wife sounded good at flying under the radar, as they often do. They are trained in our state in mental health issues.

If she were to get a jail sentence (after I give my statement, everything else is up to the police, district attorney, etc, possibly with some input from me), it would at least give me and the kids some space and time for awhile, but my wife and the kids do love each other, and a parent in jail would also be stressful for them. I am confident I could manage them and my remote work, though it wouldn't exactly be easy, especially during COVID-19. For her, hard to say. I would suggest to the authorities (and have already) that I suspect BPD, and maybe they would send her to mental health court. Instead of jail, she could be ordered to attend treatment. But I already know that forced treatment probably wouldn't be useful, as I have tried everything the typical informed non-BPD tries. Now I realize she has very little self-awareness or willingness to see her problem, even after seeing her therapist. An official diagnosis may or may not help much in court if one comes out of pressing charges, though I have documented lots of her behavior carefully.

As with all things with respect to this disorder: there are no clear "right" options. Just multiple options with varying degrees of downside, and some hope for upside. I am hoping upside at least comes after a few years when we all get through this. Any gut feelings or experiences from anyone else here? I will start talking to a lawyer soon but at this stage, I'm still trying to gain a bit more perspective. I have some time but am gearing up for what may come. Which will be predictably unpredictable, I'm sure.

[AlmostRyan]

I found out that my uBPD wife, with whom I have two children, about 8 and 10 years old, had made at least one illegal audio recording of a conversation we had on our property in the last month or so. I caught her the same day because I walked past her later that day and, still being emotionally dysregulated, she let me listen to the recording. I have no concerns over the recording's content. We live in a two-party consent state, so this crime is punishable by 12 to 14 months in jail, or a fine. For evidence, she e-mailed me admitting she was recording me, threatening to use it against me by having a lawyer listen to it, and saying she was going to continue recording me no matter what. It has shut down verbal communication almost entirely, so we use written communications now. She had also told me to go ahead and call the police after she revealed the recording to me (I only called the police later, to find out my options, but not to immediately press charges).

I had told her previously that recording me is illegal without my consent and/or awareness, and that none if it can be used in court, not that it would help her anyway. At the time, she was perpetuating an argument, and I was trying to leave. (I admit I should have just left sooner, though when I finally tried, she prevented me from doing so by opening my vehicle's door. Eventually I was able to close and lock it, before safely driving away.)

There are many unknowns about what might happen if I press charges, and lots of things a lawyer would probably advise me of. I'm aware it will further trigger my wife, who has already began filing for divorce. My main concerns are for my children. Pressing charges could help a custody case later, perhaps, if things come to that. I am a good and very present father for my kids. Seems like having things on official record could only help, if she doesn't throw false allegations at me in retaliation. She is a pretty severe case but at the extreme end. But also, pressing charges holds her accountable to the law, and shows her I will not tolerate illegal activity, nor threats against and her continued recording behaviors. The officer acknowledged that my high functioning uBPD wife sounded good at flying under the radar, as they often do. They are trained in our state in mental health issues.

If she were to get a jail sentence (after I give my statement, everything else is up to the police, district attorney, etc, possibly with some input from me), it would at least give me and the kids some space and time for awhile, but my wife and the kids do love each other, and a parent in jail would also be stressful for them. I am confident I could manage them and my remote work, though it wouldn't exactly be easy, especially during COVID-19. For her, hard to say. I would suggest to the authorities (and have already) that I suspect BPD, and maybe they would send her to mental health court. Instead of jail, she could be ordered to attend treatment. But I already know that forced treatment probably wouldn't be useful, as I have tried everything the typical informed non-BPD tries. Now I realize she has very little self-awareness or willingness to see her problem, even after seeing her therapist. An official diagnosis may or may not help much in court if one comes out of pressing charges, though I have documented lots of her behavior carefully.

As with all things with respect to this disorder: there are no clear "right" options. Just multiple options with varying degrees of downside, and some hope for upside. I am hoping upside at least comes after a few years when we all get through this. Any gut feelings or experiences from anyone else here? I will start talking to a lawyer soon but at this stage, I'm still trying to gain a bit more perspective. I have some time but am gearing up for what may come. Which will be predictably unpredictable, I'm sure.

[AlmostRyan]

I meant to say she is a severe case in terms of painting me bad, acting out to me, etc, but that she isn't at the most emtreme end of the spectrum. I've read about such extremes. I didn't see a way to edit my post for clarity.

[Turkish]

You have a 20 minute window to edit a post here, then it locks.

It sounds like you're very angry to at this point contemplate turning her over for charges (and like you said about the virus, who knows what would happen?). What has been happening to build this up? How are your kids handling this conflict?

[AlmostRyan]

Last summer, during a long family vacation she dictated (as usual, and silly me, I caved again to the same place... I've since learned to assert my own opinions), she basically said she made a mistake in having any kids and staying married all these years (~19 years). Coloring the past with current emotions basically, because we had a lot of really good years, including most of the year before that vacation. Otherwise, yes, rollercoaster.

I didn't get angry then (perhaps I was too shocked) and told her I thought maybe she was going through a midlife crisis of sorts. I offered to give her space. A few months later, I read the Stop Walking on Eggshells book, because I had always told her I felt as though I was walking on eggshells with her when she was angry with me for weeks on end over seemingly minor things. The book's title jumped out at me when I was browsing the family section on my Kindle. Suddenly, her life story of childhood abuse and broken relationships, and all our years of a rollercoaster marriage, started making more sense.

I've always been supportive of her when she has questioned her own parenting or self-esteem issues. I did feel something about her was off but couldn't quite put my finger on it, and she seems to have some insight into it too. Still, I didn't know anything about BPD then. After that vacation, her behavior went further and further downhill. As it did, I first thought about my marriage slipping, and then I saw how her behavior was affecting the kids (them losing sleep, having weird physical symptoms). She started overtly alienating them from me and from her own parents (who I am close with), and told the kids she planned to divorce me after they were done with their school careers. I thought that was odd, and knew I couldn't tolerate 10 years of that. I did get quite angry, venting the bulk of it in therapy, the gym, etc. By then I had read up on BPD (5 books and lots on online research). After my intellectual understanding of things was built up, my emotional understanding started to catch up. I focused on being stable for my wife and kids. The kids' behavior improved as I improved my own behavior by reacting less and staying more calm with my wife, and with them. I stopped tolerating any abuse from her by walking out and stating I'd talk to her when she was calm. The kids started to catch on and call her behavior out as well. They have been doing well in school and they do have a stable home life overall. I directed my thoughts of anger more toward the undiagnosed disorder than her, learning that the disorder doesn't define her. I stopped taking her criticisms personally. The anger become more manageable. But while I've stabilized myself and the kids, she continues to spiral downward, partly culminating in the aforementioned recording incident and preventing me from leaving the house to get away.

At this point I am carefully weighing the most appropriate action, while keeping emotion out of it to the best of my ability. Fundamentally, I've been pretty nice all along. I ask myself why I shouldn't press charges and finally let her face the consequences of her actions. Granted, the kids and I will feel consequences of that too, on top of the existing ones that will continue regardless. No easy decisions in the land of Oz.

Thanks by the way for your reply and your note about editing!

[ForeverDad]

Of course we're here as peer support, not lawyers nor law enforcement so our perspective is mostly what has been within our experiences.

It may be against the law to record without permission in two party states but in practice I doubt she would get much in the way of legal consequences.  I would think the risk of jail is small.  However, I live in a one party state so what do I know?

I haven't heard of any members getting jailed for recording their spouse, though there have been a handful of cases where the court specifically ordered the parents not to record the children.  On the other hand, knowing that seldom does recording become a huge issue in court, recording can be a protection for us when it documents we're not the ones creating an incident.  I almost got carted away from my home when I called 911.  Two officers responded and one asked me to hand over my quietly sobbing preschooler to his mother and "step away".  Months later my new lawyer told me police default to separating parents in domestic disputes and the men always are the ones removed.  He marveled that I didn't suffer the usual fate.  I explained that my son screeched and clung to me tighter and so the officer looked at me for a few moments, said "work it out" and they departed.  I had recorded part of our domestic dispute before and after my call so later after I downloaded it the police used it to charge her with Threat of DV.  Of course, court was lenient and after a few months ruled she was not guilty... her death threats were discounted since she didn't have a weapon in her hands.

Just as making serious threats didn't result in my court doing much when it could have been more severe, I suspect your local court won't do much to punish your spouse for recording even though it too is against the law.

Consult a local family law attorney ASAP, especially since you know a divorce is very likely.  Better yet, consult with a few so you can determine which is experienced enough and has solid strategies.  Not just any lawyer can handle our sort of difficult cases.  Our most essential handbook for divorce cases is Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder available on the authors' sites (William Eddy and Randi Kreger) also book and digital version are at Amazon.  It assists in helping find the proactive lawyers we need.

I invested in a few digital recorders, back in the day before phones could record.  I saw it as self-protection.  My then-spouse was making threats and starting to experiment with allegations, I felt I had to have some sort of proof I wasn't the one misbehaving.  Neither courts nor lawyers were interested in listening, but the police listened.  That helped me avoid getting as disadvantaged since most professionals were inclined to give the woman (spouse or mother) default preference.

Last summer, during a long family vacation she dictated (as usual, and silly me, I caved again to the same place... I've since learned to assert my own opinions), she basically said she made a mistake in having any kids and staying married all these years (~19 years). Coloring the past with current emotions basically, because we had a lot of really good years, including most of the year before that vacation. Otherwise, yes, rollercoaster.

I've been there, done that.  I had happy years at the beginning of my marriage but gradually her childhood terrors increased after occasional triggers and, to her, traumas.  But she was going down a worrisome path and after a decade I thought having a child would make her happy again, able to see her child innocently discovering the world.  (Bad idea, having a child doesn't fix serious mental health issues.  Instead, it made unwinding the imploding marriage vastly more complicated.)  By the time our son was 3 years old she was reliving her childhood traumas through him.  We separated after 15 years and the divorce was final after 18 years.

[AlmostRyan]

I'm sorry to hear you and your son went through that. It sounds like your plan to have a kid with her was with the very best intentions. And I'm betting she also had the best intentions. As you moved forward, did you go no-contact? Did you do parallel parenting?

Sadly, things can go south quickly. Or maybe in a boiled-frog way at first. In my case, my wife recently said she thought having kids would bring us closer together. That wasn't my understanding when we were planning to have kids though. But I doubt she really felt that way back when we had kids. We remember things very differently, and I now know it's almost certainly because of her coloring the past with current emotions and thinking. For what it's worth, the second pregnancy was much more difficult for her, and she has had some health issues and concerns which I'm pretty certain stem from mind body stuff.

Along those lines, her current thinking is incredibly disturbing, not helped because of the added stress of the global pandemic. I have had to stop her from taking the kids out on outdoor get-togethers with another family at the start of COVID-19, when her plans were clearly out of bounds with the local shelter-in-place rules. It's amazing (but predictable) how they ignore facts and disregard rules so that "objective" reality fits their selfish narrative and needs. Thankfully, she has stayed within those specific rules since then, but does go out on non-essential trips that she really shouldn't. I'm not perfect either and wandered within 6 feet of a neighbor during a chat, and my kids called me out. Nobody is perfect. Mistakes are bound to happen. I fully admitted to mine, but my wife only digs in and cannot admit fault in most cases. I expect it though now. That helps me a lot.

Well, we'll see what the local lawyers say about the recording. The police and the local NAMI chapter seem supportive of it as possibly getting her onto a better path. Though, any hope for that has to be tempered with expecting and preparing for the worst. Thanks for sharing your real world experiences. Oh, and good book recommendation, I also read Splitting awhile back when I was preparing for the worst, but when we were still sort of trying to co-parent (co-parenting would be impossible as things are). Looks like the worst is showing to be inevitable.

[livednlearned]

I have no concerns over the recording's content.

Does that mean the principle of the matter for you is to get her to stop recording? Like an injunction prohibiting her from doing this in your home?

And from there, to file for divorce?

If yes, then once you are in the divorce process, is your goal to get primary custody of the kids?

Sometimes these serious legal issues seem like smoking guns, but in my experience they mostly end up being one step of many toward a goal, like full custody or whatnot. At least in family court, it seems more like they are looking for a pattern of behaviors. I was amazed how much bad behavior family court tolerates, and how much rope they give.

It's a good idea to be clear about your goal/s, and then get feedback from multiple attorneys about their suggested strategy and tactics for reaching those goals. Maybe even state it that way. "My goal is ______. What strategy and tactics would you propose to help me reach this goal."

For example, if your goal is (say) to get her tossed in jail, it might not go over well in front of a judge, especially if the recorded content is inconsequential. She could get a verbal warning, or two. Or three. My ex was given three and four bites of the apple for bad behavior for reasons I learned the hard way and that have to do with the structure of appeals and the business of being a judge. You may also get a verbal warning, for bringing a matter into his/her court where more serious crimes are backlogging the docket. Just some examples of the messy humanity that can overshadow your case even when things seem to be weighed in your favor.

If your goal is to set up a series of documented attempts to create a safer home environment (e.g. no recording) and she receives an injunction that she defies, then you start to create a documented history of her inability to follow court orders, which, in my experience, is more important in the eyes of a judge than anything that occurred in the marriage. Not saying I agree with it, just that it sure seemed to work that way in court.

Also, it might be different in other types of court, but in family law court, judges want you to solve the problem. A judge will give both parties an opportunity to pull themselves together, which as you know, is challenging for someone with BPD. So if you do end up using this item in family law court, have a solution in mind and consequences for non-compliance.