Nearly broke up and now I feel so alone

[Puchiko]

I will say in advance that some of this is going to sound worse than it actually is; I have difficulty describing the relationship in properly warm ways when describing mostly the bad times. They have always been by far the exception to the rule and we have always been happy together. I WANT to stay with her, and she seems to want to stay with me as well. We still love each other and we both desire self-improvement and a lack of further conflicts.

A couple of months ago, I lost several family members, and the stress resulted in continual fights between me and my pwBPD. She is my world -- I love her more than anything and have been pursuing a life with her for many years now, although she lives in a different country, which has made it harder to reach end goals. I myself have autism, which is a double-edged sword, as it means I have issues of my own to deal with at all times, but also understand her on some levels I otherwise wouldn't. We've always fought to an extent, but things have always worked out and we knew at the end of each day that our love for each other was real and the fights were not really "what we thought of each other."

These fights got worse and worse until finally reaching a boiling point as I ended up having a major nervous meltdown from all of the stress built up in me. I said a bunch of awful things to her, things that I normally wouldn't, and that I absolutely do not believe in any way, shape, or form. She decided to break up with me. I deeply regret it and have apologized many times. Either way, after a brief break of a week, she stood by her decision. It was the first time she'd ever really left me. I was able to talk to her and show her enough positivity that she was convinced, sincerely, to stay together. She maintained later that she wasn't forced to stay together and that my positivity gave her feelings of hope. We have been rebuilding our relationship. -- that's how both of us have seen the new state of it.

The thing is, she no longer shows me any affection whatsoever, and I'm scared that may never return. Once she's decided that "things have changed", she most often sticks to her guns eternally. Our sex life died a long time ago under such things. She told me that while she wants to show me comfort and love, there is a "block" in the way of it right now. And while we've been through things that strained our relationship before, I don't believe that it's ever gone so far that she could not be affectionate with me at all.

So now she cannot emote, even in text, kissing me, or holding me close, and she no longer calls me by the affectionate pet names she's always used. She mostly only calls me by my first name (we aren't normally that level of formal), or silly things that aren't really the same. It's hard to endure, since now in terms of that I am treated perhaps worse than she treats even her friends. We still spend time together, perhaps even more than before. We were doing things together perhaps once or twice a week before. Now, it's more that we go a day without doing something maybe once or twice a week; basically that part has reversed, for the better, and I've mostly been letting her lead in terms of deciding when we spend time together, and how.

The thing is, again, it's hard to endure how chilly she is compared to in the past, and it's also terrifying because I'm worried that I will never see her affection properly again. There are little hints here and there, but never any sign of the things I'm actually in need of, even after two months. I can't discuss it with her directly -- doing so puts pressure on her and makes it even less likely to heal. I basically have to swallow my needs and suck it up, but it's getting harder to do so with each day that goes by.

I am seeking strength to keep going, and advice about how/if the affection is likely to ever return. Is this a matter of broken trust? Is this a matter of vulnerability? Will it heal? CAN it heal? Have I done irreparable damage? This woman is the one I want to spend my life with, and I've had many, MANY years to determine that and work toward that goal.

Has anyone else been through something like this with success? I do not want to give up on her. Ever since the brief break-up, I have been working on self-betterment and we haven't fought even once, although early into the recovery phase I let my insecurities get the better of me and multiple times created conversations about the situation and about how I was afraid that she wouldn't be able to show love for me romantically again. Maybe I screwed it up too much already by doing that, but I was in a panic. It took a couple of weeks for me to calm down and collect myself, and to avoid bringing up the topic again further.

Please, no "this relationship is unhealthy, get away". I've already heard plenty of that when I've asked for advice on other forums. I am specifically trying to create something healthy here by learning to be more understanding and tolerant, and I have been successful in that regard. I'm just scared that my hard work won't pay off and that the relationship may never recover, and I really, really want to be wrong about that.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

i want to make three points here.

the first is that, in different ways, and for different reasons, these dramatic changes in the relationships happen to all of us.

generally speaking, both partners tend to try to hold onto the honeymoon phase of the relationship. unfortunately, its just not sustainable, and thats not unique to being in a relationship with someone with bpd. relationships evolve and devolve. in fact, trying to return to this may even be causing her resentment toward you.

people with bpd traits struggle when it comes to who they are, and who they think we want them to be. and they resent themselves over it, and they resent us for it. and unwittingly, we often play directly into this dynamic, pushing for those qualities that we liked so much, when to some extent, they were a courting ritual.

take her at her word that the relationship is what it is for now. you can hope that it will improve, and it may, but its vital to be realistic as to what that entails.

it does not entail eliminating your needs. i cant stress that enough. while there are, i think, necessary sacrifices (and not just sacrifices, but being pragmatic) when it comes to loving someone with bpd, as there are in any relationship, we have to be reasonable about those too. if this were how it was going to be forever, if there was no sex, and little affection, are you prepared to stay?

as to how to get the affection to return:

relationships thrive when they are able to successfully navigate the normal phases of relationships. when they are able to, for example, move past the honeymoon phase, the conflict, the realization that ones partner is not perfect, and come out even stronger. people with bpd traits tend to struggle with this. often times, so do we.

the answer may lie in letting go of the old iteration of the relationship, and beginning to realize what the next phase looks like. it may mean reattracting her, or attracting her in a different way, and getting a feel for what that looks like.

what do you think?

[Puchiko]

In terms of the honeymoon phase, we lost that a long time ago. And I understand that holding on to that is completely futile. I've long since let go of the idea of what the relationship was when it began over 10 years ago, as beautiful as that may have been. What I miss is instead what the relationship was even at the mere end of last year.

Effectively, the affection only stopped (really quite abruptly) after that last big fight a couple of months ago. She accepted staying together in the end (after a few days away, as mentioned) of her own will, that of course wasn't something forced on her, but things since then have been difficult. She did try to emphasize that she feels she has changed, but it's of course rather abrupt. To me it feels a bit like she forced this new distance. Whether out of a lack of trust and ability to be vulnerable, or... I don't know.

I know she's who I want to be with -- full stop. I've been in numerous , frankly embarrassing amounts of relationships with men and women of different types and from different walks of life and she's the only one who ever made my heart feel full, even if she isn't doing so right now. I dealt with the lack of sex for a long time already and learned to live with it.

I'm not sure if I can live with an eternal lack of affection and being called primarily by name like an acquaintance or not, although the alternative of being without her seems much worse even than that, after all these years. I've never found anyone who could understand me the same way or make me feel, frankly, any good at all. I realize that kind of attachment is common in relationships involving someone with BPD; in my case, however, I've been through a lot of very low lows with her, had time apart of my own volition in the past, and in the end, I still feel this way.

Ever since what happened, I've been doing all I could to better myself, learn to manage difficult times better and avoid senseless conflict that won't get us anywhere. I think I've been doing a good job at that, and at keeping my struggles to myself because expressing them to her right now in an active way or creating fights over it will--and I understand this--only make it all much worse. This is of course difficult by its own right, since normally couples need to discuss things to really work through them, but with her that's never been the answer. I could plead her into the ground for hours on end but all it would do is leave her broken and exhausted even if she gave in to it in the end. It was not good to do that.

I believe that in rebuilding any relationship, both people have to play their part. I can't tell if she's playing hers, if she's working on anything on her end, because of the distance she's putting between us. She still refers to me as her girlfriend and she still actively seeks out time with me, but I can't tell if she's "trying", or if she's just treating me as a close friend however is convenient to her without breaking up with me because she knows that will hurt me... or something. And discussing it isn't an option -- more or less just an automatic key to making sure the worst comes to pass. My mind has trouble not focusing on unresolved issues, and becomes very preoccupied with them much of the time. I'm told this is related somehow to my autism, but I try not to let labels spell doom for me.

I'm rambling... the point is, I DO want to come out of this stronger as a person and as a couple. It's just that I'm having a lot of trouble keeping the strength given the sheer amounts of blind faith and swallowing of pride this takes, and I have very little in terms of support. My friends are (surprisingly, given they often haven't been before) supportive of my efforts and have said things like "Give her time, she'll melt again", but in general they can't do much to help me right now. Most of them are very passive people who have difficulty emotionally supporting anyone without ending up in very bad shape themselves; some lock up entirely.

This girl and I have been together so long that it seems hard to believe our bond and our love could break like this. But while she did describe it as a "block" initially while saying that she did still want to show me those feelings and couldn't, I haven't got a lot of reason to believe that's necessarily still what she feels. When things first happened I had trouble leaving well enough alone and engaged in too many difficult conversations with her (albeit without fighting). I emphasized things too much, was far too needy. How she felt early into this situation doesn't necessarily reflect how she still feels -- although I would really like to believe it does, since she showed some signs of hope, and no matter how much she'd wanted to break up or just be friends in the heat of how bad things were at the time, she ultimately chose not to close herself to the possibilities, and had allowed herself to stay with me, stating explicitly that I'd made her see hope in that instant, and that she had felt it could bloom again. I really, really hope she still feels that way. But like Schrodinger's cat, it feels like a situation where seeking an exact answer is taking a dire risk.

Still rambling... I've been trying my hardest to stay strong and positive, as I've believed that showing her positivity, taking responsibility for my part in what had happened, trying to grow as a person, and not letting her see any signs of my pain or weakness, were the best ways I could handle this in the end. I read a lot of things about rebuilding broken relationships, and a lot of them advised time apart, but that would never work with her, it would just finalize everything. So there wasn't any good advice out there for me, except the very sensible advice to work on myself as best I could. To take responsibility.

Like, is there a possibility that this is an issue of broken trust? It's not that I betrayed trust in a direct way, but with such horrible fighting, her trust in the relationship, her security, may be harmed. And trust can heal, but improvement, responsibility, and consistency are key in healing it regardless of BPD or not... I think? Maybe as I continue to do the best I can, my efforts will be seen and the security that allows her to be vulnerable will return? But I know that in many ways, there are parts of that which ARE more difficult when BPD is involved...

Sigh. I hate talking about things in ways that sound so clinical, but it's just the way my brain works; it always wants direct answers and understanding, and that rarely exists, especially in simple ways, when it comes to feelings. With her even moreso.

I am trying my hardest to take her at her word, but it's possible that I already damaged her opinions of things since I've last heard her word, and it's very hard for me to tell exactly. She normally would have had her feelings more or less on her sleeves with me, but the new distance of things has her more guarded and hard to read, and less openly expressive of how she feels. Granted, I suppose I'm more guarded with mine as well as I try my hardest to put on the most sincere positive face I can, although maybe that's different since I'm doing it to keep a positive atmosphere and not make things more strained? I don't know. Maybe it's the same in some way.

My main struggles are whether there's any chance the affection WILL return, which I know that no one can necessarily tell me, and how to stay strong. As well as whether what I'm doing even makes sense as something that could do good for things at all...

[Puchiko]

I had a talk with her today in brief and more or less told her how I was feeling. I didn't get much in terms of useful answers, though.

She said that she's been happy with how things have been for the past several weeks and that it's comfortable for her. And that she loves me just as much as ever, but wants to be more independent than in the past (that's fine in itself, that's how things have been and does not bother me, things have been largely good outside of what's "missing"). Spending time regularly, but with time to work on herself as well.

In general, that's all good. It came up that we used to be rather co-dependent, on the whole. We both agree that was definitely a problem. I just feel like there's a middle ground to be found somewhere in-between this current distance, and co-dependence.

I couldn't get a clear answer as to whether she agrees in that regard or not, but I think I was able to make it clear again what I am hoping for without upsetting her too much. A loving and affectionate relationship, but not co-dependent. Something better than before built upon the more comfortable, fight-free atmosphere we've created. That's what I'm hoping for. But of course these things have to be two-sided.

In the end, she didn't give me any more of a definite answer. I'm still effectively stuck in the same spot, not knowing if the affection will ever really return or not. At least I was able to get my feelings across without applying drastic pressure to her, but...

[once removed]

so, i think youre actually approaching all of this pretty soundly. i know what its like to analyze it all. i have some ocd traits myself.

youre very right that while communication is vital, chasing her or pressuring her are simply not going to achieve the desired result.

even pushing for answers, i would think, could be fraught. putting myself in her shoes, i might not have answers to give, or i might not know how to give them. or, quite frankly, my answers might change.

so what youre talking about is a balance, really, that is ultimately up to you, to how you define a healthy relationship, to what extent youre willing to sacrifice, but also where you intend to go from here.

it is my suspicion that a lot of this is likely telegraphing insecurity to her - thats not a judgment, it can be a very insecure thing, being in a relationship with someone with bpd traits - and if im right, she can feel that, and it will sort of manifest in the relationship as a whole.

but if im right, i want to stress that youre not wrong to feel that way. i dated a gal with bpd traits in high school. she seemed to only be attracted to me when i was at my most confident. that wasnt something, for me, that was sustainable.

at the same time, its a reality of loving someone with bpd. they thrive off of our confidence, our security, our leadership.

so its not really just a matter, or shouldnt be, of what and to what extent youre willing to sacrifice, how long youre willing to wait. i would stipulate that the trajectory is not sustainable, and its more a matter of changing your approach, and to what extent youre willing to do that.

what do you think?

[Puchiko]

Hmm. Well, it's definitely plausible that she can sense my insecurity. It's difficult to feel fully secure in a situation where the love feels so "half-dead". I try to put on the most positive air I can and show her a good time with sincerity. I would never outright force something, being insincere won't do anyone any favors is my belief.

She's gotten a little warmer over time and calls me by some cute nicknames on occasion, but nothing "committed" like she used to (no "lover names" if that makes sense), and still often insistently uses my first name.

However, I don't know to what extent that might effect her personally. I do think it might "passively pressure" her to some extent, and I'm not sure how to fix that, although she still actively seeks time with me and I get a slight feeling that since that last talk, she might be "trying".

But it's only a feeling; I don't have any concrete evidence of this beyond her calling me cute more often, things like that. But it still feels like a punch in the face when she calls me by first name when previously that isn't something she'd really do unless the conversation was very serious.

In terms of changing approach, I may be open to the idea, but it depends on exactly what I need to do, as I don't have ideas on how to change my approach to better improve this.

I do get what you mean about thriving off of our confidence and leadership, though. When the relationship first started a very long time ago I very much took charge of it and this only reduced over time as she began to reject things increasingly often. A middle ground was mostly found eventually in the past, but right now she sort of has full control... she doesn't show discomfort with this, but appearances aren't actionable facts.

Also, I really want to express that I appreciate your responses. I don't have people to talk to this about who really understand or have much in way of advice, and that's why I came here. It's not something I can take for granted.

[Puchiko]

This post is going to be another one where things just flow. I don't want my emotions in all of what I say here to be taken as the absolutes of what I'm feeling, though I'm feeling rather down right now.

I'm still having a tough time of it. In general, I don't have much of a useful support network, but yesterday a friend who was also having relationship troubles decided to peace out from my life (nonsensical "if I leave, everyone will be happier" stuff; I thought this friend was more mature than this), leaving me even more alone than I was before.

She still isn't showing affection. She calls me by silly names at times that may seem affectionate (calling me beautiful, cute, etc), but she never uses any that are "committed" if that makes sense. She won't call me her love, or sweetheart, or babe, or things like that. She normally would be doing a mix of both and really only using my name if the situation were serious. As a result, hearing my name from her still kinda kills me. There's occasional flirty jokes but only on very base levels that aren't super "directed."

A couple of days ago, she was talking about how she feels good about herself in the last months, which is an unusual and rare feeling for her. But she said that it doesn't carry over well online, especially toward me. She said that with me, she doubts herself, and feels like she doesn't do enough. All I really expect of her is her love, which she admittedly isn't really providing right now, but I try not to give her the impression that she "isn't doing enough." If anything, I try to help her understand that if she's doing her best, that's all I can really ask of her, but I don't think that's entirely getting through.

Possibly relatedly, the other day, she had a brief upset over the fact that I've been spending my free time rather passively at times (low energy etc), and in her upset, she was like, (paraphrasing here) "If I don't spend time with you whenever I'm awake, you'll feel bad all the time?" I didn't say such a thing, and disagreed. She said that she doesn't want to be responsible for my happiness, and that it sucks. (She isn't responsible for it. There was probably a time when that was true, but not anymore.) And she said that when my days seem dull and she overthinks it, she feels like she has to be around me more to give me happiness, and feels guilty for not doing enough. For spending more time on herself, and less on me. I'm not trying to make her feel that way, and she usually doesn't seem to have this in mind, but it was a troubling moment.

I don't really know if this self-doubt or guilt is related to her lack of affection for me. It's almost like there's a barrier around her feelings for me right now.

As a side note, she seems to be happy with the higher level of control she's had over how my time with her has been spent, given that I normally was the one making most of the suggestions of what we should do together, and since the near-break-up, that has reversed. It's not that I purposely took major control of everything before, but she rarely really chimed in. At the moment, I'm the one rarely chiming in -- or feeling able to, really. Just suggesting to do something feels like I could potentially interrupt things she'd rather be doing, I worry.

The situation is generally just staying the same. I'm still held at somewhat of a distance, and she seems to basically avoid the things that come with actual romance, whether it's affection, lover pet names, or saying she's happy to be together, or anything like that, even if the context would normally lead to that kind of stuff naturally. She had said she was happy to be together at one point after the near-break-up, but that was before some difficult conversations that I put on her during the damage control phase (in the first few weeks following the near-break-up) when I couldn't keep myself together and my insecurities were running wild. I want to believe she still feels that way, and is glad to be rebuilding as we have been, and she hasn't given any direct indications otherwise, but I do find it very hard to keep the faith without absolutely any reaffirmations right now.

I'm still doing my best to stay my path, and bring her as many good times and smiles as I can. Her smile is the most precious thing there is to me in many ways. But I admit that I keep stumbling, and that it gets very draining at times. I've had a very long time to determine that I want to spend my life with this woman, and it feels like it would all be so much easier if she'd give me a clear sign. It's hard to just "keep the faith" and continually take things on words that I haven't heard since all of this began.

All of the time that she and I spend together seems great. I wish I knew what she's feeling and thinking, but it feels so elusive. I don't want to believe that she could just permanently lose her romantic love for me and never get it back. Knowing her as I do, I have trouble wrapping myself around that possibility. But without a sign, it's hard to keep reminding myself how much she and I have always meant to each other and that it probably couldn't really be destroyed that easily, especially when she and I both seem to be working on ourselves as a result of what happened and staying together. The closest I've had to any sort of sign was me asking "Our recovery is continuing, but our relationship has been a lot better in many ways than before, hasn't it?" and her responding that she "thinks so, yes". But that could just be a sign of her personal happiness stemming from her increased independence, instead...

A lot of this sounds very full of despair, probably. I'm not feeling it all the time. My life is very quiet right now, though, and there isn't much I can do to change it that I haven't already been doing, so things feel much louder than they maybe would otherwise be. The anxiety feels like a lot without anyone to really turn to, and for obvious reasons, expressing my insecurities or anxieties to her right now would only make a huge mess of things.

She blames herself too much. In everything, really. Of course things are her fault sometimes, but sometimes they're mine, and it feels like she basically insistently is taking all of that burden onto herself overall. Whenever the subject of something that went wrong or something bad from the past comes up, she always insists that it was her fault, or that she went wrong far more than me. I wish I could sort out THAT imbalance, because she doesn't deserve to feel like everything bad came from her. The big fight we had that led us down this path was pretty much entirely on me and how I poorly handled my stress, for example. I'm not to blame for everything either, but I'd say the overall blame is more of an equal responsibility.

She's spending most of her time in creative pursuits. She says that she's happy and upbeat, she says she feels good. When it comes to her doubts with me, she said, roughly, "It's not you, honestly. I'm causing myself to feel guilty." I just don't know what to make of her side of things right now. I really wish I knew what she was going through -- and I wish I could make it easier for her. I want her smile. But I want to be happy, too, by her side. It's not possible for me to be strong all the time, especially without being able to see a clear light at the end of the tunnel, a clear sign of where things are going. I'm doing my best for now, still...

[once removed]

this really reminds me of the situation ive found myself in in most of my relationships. i never dealt with distance well, and the anxiety would overwhelm me.

its kind of a catch 22. that anxiety will tend to push someone away, especially a person with bpd who generally just doesnt know what to do with someone elses anxieties. as a result you feel more anxious. if you get thrown a bone or a crumb, it will feel great for a moment, and then youll find yourself feeling worse and wanting more. if she gets a feeling of obligation, whether its showing you affection or spending time, that will push her away.

she seems to be happy with the higher level of control

heres the thing:

you have a lot more control than it feels like right now.

number one, you get to decide if this is unsustainable or hopeless, and when/whether its time to walk away. that has to come from a place of conviction.

but number two, what is going to help the most in the short and the long term is getting ahold of the anxiety. if youre feeling socially isolated, and very much like this is an ongoing situation, its going to kind of feed itself; its going to become your entire day, your every waking moment, and its going to drive you crazy.

it will not be easy to get ahold of (personally, i never succeeded). it would be a good idea to either seek out some meds or supplements (i can recommend several that enormously reduced my anxiety). it will help. it will also be a good idea to back off and let her lead. plan out your next full week. fill it with anything big or small; things that will help you pass the time and get your mind off of her. if youre anything like me, it will be really hard, and there will be some discomfort with distancing yourself, wondering if your distancing is pushing her to distance, and its very hard to find the motivation to do anything but worry about the situation when youre anxious. but if you can push through those feelings, you begin to conquer them, and equilibrium tends to naturally follow, you find a new normal. likewise, find connection, people you can talk to. if its difficult right now to find friends, join a facebook group or something like that. post here, in the threads of others. anything that just connects you to others. it will help.

in doing so, you become more independent, and that is one way of responding to this situation by increasing your attractiveness to her.

These fights got worse and worse until finally reaching a boiling point as I ended up having a major nervous meltdown from all of the stress built up in me. I said a bunch of awful things to her, things that I normally wouldn't, and that I absolutely do not believe in any way, shape, or form. She decided to break up with me. I deeply regret it and have apologized many times. Either way, after a brief break of a week, she stood by her decision. It was the first time she'd ever really left me. I was able to talk to her and show her enough positivity that she was convinced, sincerely, to stay together. She maintained later that she wasn't forced to stay together and that my positivity gave her feelings of hope. We have been rebuilding our relationship. -- that's how both of us have seen the new state of it.

have the two of you revisited this? if so, how recently, and what was said?

[Puchiko]

its kind of a catch 22. that anxiety will tend to push someone away, especially a person with bpd who generally just doesnt know what to do with someone elses anxieties. as a result you feel more anxious. if you get thrown a bone or a crumb, it will feel great for a moment, and then youll find yourself feeling worse and wanting more. if she gets a feeling of obligation, whether its showing you affection or spending time, that will push her away.

Well, I'm trying to avoid giving her such a feeling, but you basically make it sound like a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation where affection will never, ever come no matter if she feels obligated or not. Am I misunderstanding? Either way, I am mostly managing not to directly share my anxieties with her and doing my damnedest not to let her see them, although I know it's impossible to prevent her from sensing them entirely. I'm trying my best to "be strong" and not be overwhelmed.

In terms of medication for my anxieties, nothing has ever worked before -- most of the time, things have made it much worse. I'm open to recommendations, just a bit skeptical since I've tried a lot of things. I also have a sleep disorder that doctors have always failed to do anything for (which has made scheduling more or less anything virtually impossible in life). I seem to just be a bit of a wreck in how I'm built, haha. Overall I can say I've gotten a hold of my anxiety a LOT, even though not completely, compared to when all of this started. It's seemingly impossible to stop the non-stop analysis running in my brain, but in the earliest parts I was clawing desperately and actively for answers and hope rather than the current state of background pleading in my head of "please, let there be hope".

Regarding what you said at the start of your post, while it's easy to say "if you get thrown a bone or a crumb, it will feel great, then you'll feel worse and want more", I think that's only half-true for me. I felt that the first time she began to show any sort of cute or half-affection behavior toward me again, and it has left me wanting since, but effectively at this point if I were to receive a single sign that she'll ever kiss me or call me a lover name by her own volition again even once, it would calm me down because I'd understand that I'm on the right track. Right now I feel like I'm stuck in a "together, but friends" spot and that's what's killing me, a sense of no momentum. To be honest, I can live without affection for weeks, months, but not knowing if it will ever return at allis the part that kills me.

Regarding the rest, I understand that it's ideal to have more of a life of my own. It's more difficult for me than it should be, though. I'm autistic, which makes social matters much harder in general. I also had a very sheltered family life, which didn't help -- plus, of course, the pandemic. I would probably at least be getting out of the house sometimes, if the world were more normal right now. In all, though, it's difficult for me to be very social, especially with random strangers -- it took a lot to convince myself to post here as it was, and that was after being rejected or ignored pretty much anywhere else I tried to talk about what was going on. Just a lot of "you're too codependent" and "maybe you have BPD too" (I don't) and "leave while you can". Which of course was very discouraging. Again, I'm not saying "no, I can't do that"... it's just tough. I'm a little reluctant to post in other parts of the forums because I feel like I don't know enough to be of help to anyone or say anything of meaning, but I've been thinking about it. Do you have any advice on how I should approach that?

have the two of you revisited this? if so, how recently, and what was said?

We haven't really revisited it since the early days after the fight. I was extremely apologetic and have done my best to repent and show that I can and will be consistently better, but whenever it did come up, she kept telling me she wasn't even thinking about it anymore and wanted to focus on the present rather than the past. Or that she had said and done a lot of horrible things in the past herself and felt that she was worse. Things like that. She's always the sort who rebukes apologies with "don't apologize" or statements that she did worse than me, and never outright says "it's okay" or "I forgive you". (Of course, I still always try my best to apologize for my wrongdoings, whatever they may be.)

She's more or less told me clearly that she believes in forgiving people for stupid things they say, and strongly believes in the idea that people often say things they don't mean during fights, which shouldn't be taken as what they really believe. Which, while somewhat true, I don't believe it's a super healthy mindset since it indirectly excuses saying hurtful things when wound up. Still, while she's never explicitly said "I forgive you" to me, she's consistently not shown upset over what was said and hasn't brought it back up, and she seems to somewhat wave it away if I bring it up.

As a side note, I was talking earlier in the day about self-improvement and some of the things I was trying to work on, namely about not invalidating or minimizing things others say, because she asked what I'd been up to while she had been asleep. Her response to it was that she also thinks she also needs to improve, and to say "let's improve together."  While she's been sometimes talking about working on herself right now (including in relation to the increased distance/independence), she hadn't really talked about doing such things together, or improving together, up to now. In fact, she'd hardly ever used the word "together" in any way after the difficult conversations we had in February shortly after the incident that almost broke us up. I don't want to say that she's not opening up at all. It seems possible that she is, although very slowly. But if so, obviously it's a lot less cut and dry, or definite, than my very logical and analytical mind would like. Simply that as well, if I could see the light at the end of the tunnel -- if I knew she was working toward the same overall goals or will get there eventually -- my anxieties would shut up significantly, even if we didn't get there for quite some time. My mind works like that.

[once removed]

Well, I'm trying to avoid giving her such a feeling, but you basically make it sound like a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation where affection will never, ever come no matter if she feels obligated or not. Am I misunderstanding? Either way, I am mostly managing not to directly share my anxieties with her and doing my damnedest not to let her see them,

im talking about the nature of how insidious anxiety can be, and putting myself in your shoes. it may not apply, or it may apply more to me than you. its a good and strong move not to wear it on your sleeve with her. i always found that even when i was able to do that, i would obsess like crazy and i found it hard to get out of that cycle, especially to get my mind on other things.

I'm open to recommendations, just a bit skeptical since I've tried a lot of things.

you might look into sam-e, ashwaghanda, and passion flower. they did wonders for me. if you currently take any medications, do check for possible interactions.

regarding sleep, you might also look into melatonin, though it sounds like you may have.

I felt that the first time she began to show any sort of cute or half-affection behavior toward me again, and it has left me wanting since, but effectively at this point if I were to receive a single sign that she'll ever kiss me or call me a lover name by her own volition again even once, it would calm me down because I'd understand that I'm on the right track. Right now I feel like I'm stuck in a "together, but friends" spot and that's what's killing me, a sense of no momentum.

is there zero affection of any kind? no touching, no verbal affection?

Regarding the rest, I understand that it's ideal to have more of a life of my own. It's more difficult for me than it should be, though.

its hard for me too. connection is good in general, but im primarily suggesting it a coping mechanism. support and connection can help a lot with anxiety.

I'm a little reluctant to post in other parts of the forums because I feel like I don't know enough to be of help to anyone or say anything of meaning, but I've been thinking about it. Do you have any advice on how I should approach that?

i came here around ten years ago after my relationship ended very badly. helping people improve their relationships with someone with bpd was the last thing i ever saw myself doing. someone told me that posting to others here would challenge me and build my skills. it did. it does.

but theres no better support than two people who are going through it, can relate to each other, are learning, and can help each other learn. there are lots of people in circumstances similar to yours, and supporting them will help you too. and the more you teach the concepts youre learning, the more youre practicing them, the better youre learning them, the sharper youll be in applying them to your own relationship. "always a student, always a teacher".

We haven't really revisited it since the early days after the fight. I was extremely apologetic and have done my best to repent and show that I can and will be consistently better, but whenever it did come up, she kept telling me she wasn't even thinking about it anymore and wanted to focus on the present rather than the past.

okay. it sounds like its something she doesnt want to revisit, so id follow her lead and not push.

The thing is, she no longer shows me any affection whatsoever, and I'm scared that may never return. Once she's decided that "things have changed", she most often sticks to her guns eternally. Our sex life died a long time ago under such things. She told me that while she wants to show me comfort and love, there is a "block" in the way of it right now.

its clear theres a block of some sort. has she explained what exactly that block is? indicated in any way as to whether its permanent?

when you say your sex life died, are you saying the sex life stopped before any of this happened, and after fighting?

also, how long have the two of you been together?

[Puchiko]

regarding sleep, you might also look into melatonin, though it sounds like you may have.

Yeah, that was the first thing that the doctors tried back in the day. Nothing they threw at it ever worked. It's non-24 sleep-wake disorder they've said. My biological clock is constantly shifting, sometimes a little bit at a time, sometimes wildly. Sometimes the amount of time I am awake or asleep feels rather random, despite good sleep hygiene and bed habits. When I sleep, I still typically sleep very well. But I don't have a normal type of pattern. I had to work from home on my own schedule even before the pandemic.

is there zero affection of any kind? no touching, no verbal affection?

It's hard to tell for sure how it would be in person, it's a long-distance relationship and we haven't gotten to see each other in quite a while due to the pandemic. But as far as online is concerned, there's been absolutely nothing. She might call me cute when I'm acting silly-cute or something like that but I think she'd do the same for a friend. She either doesn't respond to any signs of affection on my part, or responds in different ways than she ever would have in the past. She doesn't show revulsion, but she basically dances around it such that she has replied without returning it. All we have right now is "I love you". She always responds to that, and says it herself without prompting on rare occasion (she used to say it a lot).

there are lots of people in circumstances similar to yours, and supporting them will help you too. and the more you teach the concepts youre learning, the more youre practicing them, the better youre learning them, the sharper youll be in applying them to your own relationship. "always a student, always a teacher".

I might try. I'm just nervous as I don't want to inadvertently lead anyone the wrong way. I've definitely been doing a lot of reading on the site and its tools have been useful so far.

its clear theres a block of some sort. has she explained what exactly that block is? indicated in any way as to whether its permanent?

She hasn't explained, and she likely doesn't know, herself. She's never been very good with that sort of thing, the in-depth aspects of feelings or what's going on in her head. There has been no indication as to whether it's permanent or not, she's said that she's open to things, but she did describe it as some kind of block. It's really likely she isn't sure, herself. She said that she wants to show me comfort, warmth, and love, but when I talk to her romantically, she finds herself unable to respond without forcing it, and she doesn't want to force it. She hasn't forced it. She said that typing or saying the words is easy, but feeling them is harder, and she wants to be genuine. That's roughly how she put it, when saying there's some kind of block. All of this was not many days after the fight, before I had put her through any difficult conversations.

I want to believe it's not permanent, but I certainly fear it. She said early into this that she was just feeling afraid and conservative, and was hesitant about actively being affectionate. That was the same time she said she was happy to be with me.  Later on (during one of the difficult conversations I put her through a couple months ago) she said maybe she seeks a more friendship-level relationship given that she feels unable to provide affection, and said that it's hard to think about it. She said she felt like she had been forcing herself to think about it, but didn't know how to deal with it. She thought her previous statement of being afraid was accurate, however, and has multiple times said she wasn't closed to the idea of it.

She became a bit warmer over time, but not to the extent of any affection or pet names. I don't know which of her words to believe since they weren't really consistent and there's no recent information at all in this regard, but I try not to press her about her feelings on this. She doesn't take it well, and it frustrated her a lot when I would do so during those first few weeks after we almost broke up. If I'm too clingy or show too much need, it makes her uncomfortable, of course. I suspect a lot of this isn't so much her actually wanting to "just be friends" (she did allow the relationship to continue, besides), but instead maybe her being internally afraid that if she were to reopen her heart and affection were to return, so would the problems. This hunch comes from the fact that she has stated recently that she doubts herself when she's around me.

when you say your sex life died, are you saying the sex life stopped before any of this happened, and after fighting?

It died a long time ago. Years ago. There had still been things here and there (before the fight) but it basically amounted to her pushing herself for me on rare occasion rather than unfolding naturally. When the honeymoon phase ended many years ago, I got disproportionately upset at the reduction in sex and pressured her too much, and I believe that any sign of pressure for things like this just reduces or even ends her interest in it. I've been able to live with this loss, because I am a creature of love and affection, not specifically a sexual being. I like sex, I miss it, but I rarely think about the loss.

Actually, thinking about it, despite the pressure I'd put on, it still stuck around regularly, although less, until 2016. At one point in 2016 she was on medication that led her to do some things she absolutely wouldn't have otherwise, including a very light instance of starting to cheat on me (although she stopped it before it really went anywhere). The guilt stuck with her, I believe, and ironically has basically prevented her from being very interested in sex at all from then on. So any instances after 2016 were her pushing herself.

also, how long have the two of you been together?

About 10 years. The only reason the relationship is still long-distance is that she has major social anxieties (can barely bear to go outside unless I'm with her) and lives in a different country, so the process of getting to be together long-term in person has been more difficult than it should be.

[Puchiko]

It's been almost a week now, so here's an update.

Things have gotten worse lately, but not in the way I would have expected.

She's been having some misunderstandings and disagreements with her family and there were a couple of times where she felt poorly understood by me, too, such as a joke that went a little bit awry.

She actually has showed a tiny bit of affection amidst all this, and a bit of affectionate warmth, but the problem is, she's now left feeling really, really terrible about herself and I seem to be unable to find any sort of angle to cheer her up since it's essentially gotten to the extent where she internally must be thinking "I know that I'm bad, so anything good that's said about me isn't really valid."

That's something I'm sure many of us are deeply familiar with. But she's in it really deep right now, and I'm not sure how to help her, given the increased distance that's been between us ever since the near-break-up that we suffered. I want to help her, I want to see her shining again. She was doing fantastic for a long while -- perhaps the best I'd ever seen in terms of her self-esteem and inspiration.

Now she's in a creative rut, believes all of her creations to be dissatisfying and awful, and is feeling so badly toward herself that she seems to be shutting down.

[once removed]

It's really likely she isn't sure, herself. She said that she wants to show me comfort, warmth, and love, but when I talk to her romantically, she finds herself unable to respond without forcing it, and she doesn't want to force it. She hasn't forced it.

its hard to tell how much of this is you, and/or the relationship, and how much of it is her.

she may (and i would wager does) have issues around intimacy. if the sex relationship died out, she may be someone who has a very difficult time with romance.

and when i say its hard to tell how much of that is her, and how much of that is you, thats sort of what i meant when i was talking about new ways of attracting her - making yourself more attractive. connecting. but then i dont have a very good idea of how youre approaching it, or how youve approached it before.

people with bpd traits often struggle with these things. uncomfortable with who they are, how they are...uncomfortable in their relationships, and relating to others. they thrive on another persons confidence and leadership.

the difficult thing is that its going to be hard to accomplish any of this in a relationship where you are physically separated.

and I'm not sure how to help her,

its probably not something that you can fix. be present. be there emotionally. be strong and upbeat. if nothing else, someone she feels better when she talks to.

it never hurts to just ask "how can i best support you right now?".

[Puchiko]

She was always very openly romantic and lovey-dovey with me before the big fight happened, and I've seen her be that way toward others at points in the past too; I don't think it's that she has a difficult time with it. There's clearly some sort of block there, though.

As it stands now, some days she seems affectionate (although not nearly as openly or directly as she used to be before the fight) and others she's more distant. It's not quite a full-on hot-and-cold thing, and in fact she herself seems aware of it, along with the fact she's not doing it on purpose.

Something she said, while self-doubting, was that she wasn't sure she was meant to love, because "one day I want to kiss and cuddle with you lots, the next I want to focus solely on creative stuff, and the next..." (she didn't finish that statement.)

Personally, I am seeing improvement as time goes, and moreso when she's in good spirits than when she's feeling down, since self-doubt seems to cloud it all a lot more. I am certainly doing what I can to try to be a beacon of light and warmth to her right now, in any case.

[Puchiko]

Well, I haven't posted in quite a while, so I suppose there's enough to say now.

She's reaffirmed her love for me and effectively said that she did, in fact, "fall for me all over again". Her affection is still reduced, not zero, and she still doesn't use proper pet names as often as she used to by far -- but she has occasionally. She's also stated very clearly that she very much wants the relationship to work, wants us to make it. Forever, so to speak.

Pretty much all of my anxieties regarding the relationship and her love have shut up for the time being.

However, she's dissociating an awful lot -- she's constantly lost in daydreams about the characters in her creative work at the moment, and has expressed that I'm the only reason she wants to stay in "this reality" at all rather than being lost entirely in those dreams.

She's pretty much always in poor spirits because her actual creating isn't going very well most days and even on the days when it does work, it doesn't seem like it's been enough for her. Or from random downswings. She's hardly been in good spirits at all the last several days, even for brief bouts.

There hasn't been a lot I can do for her, and it feels almost like she's slowly slipping away into that world.

[once removed]

the relationship could stay in this sort of limbo (gets better, gets worse, stays where it is) indefinitely or so long as the circumstances are what they are.

are you good with that? have any next steps in mind?