So confused by BPD wife's most recent behaviors (we are separated).

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Been with her for 16 years, she's 39, I'm 37.  The last 6 years in particular have been the most tumultuous (will save the details).  We have 3 kids (2 still in the home with her, 16, 10, both boys).

Beginning about a year ago, it seemed 4 out of 7 days involved threats of divorce, and general angered behavior.

Four months ago, it became every day, and I began fearing losing her.  I tried everything to get her to come around.

I moved out 4/22/21 after a series of four abusive outbursts that day. I went to stay with a female friend.  By 5/10/21, BPD wife had me convinced to come home.  Was miserable yet again,  but decided to stay through a surgery she was having on 6/3/21, and told her on 5/27/21 that I'd be heading back to stay with the female friend on 6/8/21 because I felt safer/happier there.  So I did.

By 6/9/21, BPD wife was coming around to where I was staying to hang out and work things out with me.  6/10/21, she came over again.  6/11/21, I went to BPD wife's house to hang with her.  6/12 and 6/13 the female friend and I both stayed the weekend with BPD wife.

-6/14 - I flew out of town for work. BPD wife and female friend hang out at wife's house. Wife and I speak off/on all day and have great fruitful conversations, and do again on the morning of 6/15.  

-6/15 - BPD wife tells me that she's hanging out with a male that she won't name.  I determine who it is on my own.  It is a sociopathic former friend that we cut contact with 5 years ago.  I ask female friend (who had been waiting at BPD wife's house all day to spend time with her) to remove the rest of my things.

-6/16 - I remove more of the rest of my things.  BPD wife and sociopathic guy ridicule me by text/phone most of the day.  Sociopathic guy moves in.

-6/19 - by now she has been sleeping with sociopathic guy (no protection), and is in new relationship with a second guy (that she didn't know prior to 6/19). She has both men driving our car, sleeping at our house, spending time with our kids, spending her money, etc.  Both men are in their late 20's.

-6/21 - she tries to manipulate me into giving her $3K of business money for her to get a divorce lawyer

-6/22 - she tells me she has retained a lawyer (even though we had always agreed to mediate), she got the money to do so from her first husband (I'm the second).

-6/24 - she tells me she's sorry and misses me.  I give her instructions for reconciliation (baby steps which don't include getting back together).  We agree to mediate our divorce.

-6/26 - I tell her I'm worried for her.  She calls me back crying and asks me to take her in for mental help.  I tell her that I will pause the divorce if she gets help.  I ask that she have somebody else take her, as I'm not ready to see her yet.  She reveals that sociopathic friend stole a large sum of money from her, and that she has asked him to stay away.  She will still not proceed with my reconciliation instructions.

-6/27 through 7/1 - she writes and calls me daily.  She asks for me to pause the divorce, and is acting as though I'm going to be coming home at some point soon.  She says she'll break up with second guy as soon as I move out from female friend's place, and demands that I do so for her to begin our reconciliation.  "I love you, I miss you, I'm sorry." She abruptly ends conversations when I make valid points (and has since 6/15, she's never really done that before, she usually stays and fights).  We had started a productive conversation on 6/29 that hasn't been finished.  She begged for it to continue on 7/1, but she wouldn't have said conversation with me if I wasn't alone (I could not get alone).  I again ask that she get some help as I'm very worried for her, and her illogical/reckless actions over the last several weeks.  I don't hear from her again after telling her that on 7/1.

-7/2 - I don't hear from her most of the day.  She tells me she wants to talk to me when I'm alone.  I message and call her when I'm alone and get no response (she's one to respond/answer right away).  She does call back for a short conversation, but she is evasive and tells me she's falling in love with the second guy.  

I do want to proceed with mediation but can't without her cooperation.  I do not feel as though as I want to proceed with our marriage, but I do miss her, want the best for her, and care for her immensely (and am having tons of trouble making sense of this part for myself).  I'm worried about her new lifestyle, and how it's affecting our home, property, and kids. I don't want to blindside her with a divorce filing.

I really don't know what to do.  It could be the hooks she has in me, but for some reason I feel better when I'm getting along with her, but it's not lasting as long as it usually does, and there was a massive shift in her behavior 6/15 (prior to that, there was no recklessness, just constant contact and begging for me).  I don't know how to manage this new behavior.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[NovoComeco]

Been with her for 16 years, she's 39, I'm 37.  The last 6 years in particular have been the most tumultuous (will save the details).  We have 3 kids (2 still in the home with her, 16, 10, both boys).

Beginning about a year ago, it seemed 4 out of 7 days involved threats of divorce, and general angered behavior.

Four months ago, it became every day, and I began fearing losing her.  I tried everything to get her to come around.

I moved out 4/22/21 after a series of four abusive outbursts that day. I went to stay with a female friend.  By 5/10/21, BPD wife had me convinced to come home.  Was miserable yet again,  but decided to stay through a surgery she was having on 6/3/21, and told her on 5/27/21 that I'd be heading back to stay with the female friend on 6/8/21 because I felt safer/happier there.  So I did.

By 6/9/21, BPD wife was coming around to where I was staying to hang out and work things out with me.  6/10/21, she came over again.  6/11/21, I went to BPD wife's house to hang with her.  6/12 and 6/13 the female friend and I both stayed the weekend with BPD wife.

-6/14 - I flew out of town for work. BPD wife and female friend hang out at wife's house. Wife and I speak off/on all day and have great fruitful conversations, and do again on the morning of 6/15.  

-6/15 - BPD wife tells me that she's hanging out with a male that she won't name.  I determine who it is on my own.  It is a sociopathic former friend that we cut contact with 5 years ago.  I ask female friend (who had been waiting at BPD wife's house all day to spend time with her) to remove the rest of my things.

-6/16 - I remove more of the rest of my things.  BPD wife and sociopathic guy ridicule me by text/phone most of the day.  Sociopathic guy moves in.

-6/19 - by now she has been sleeping with sociopathic guy (no protection), and is in new relationship with a second guy (that she didn't know prior to 6/19). She has both men driving our car, sleeping at our house, spending time with our kids, spending her money, etc.  Both men are in their late 20's.

-6/21 - she tries to manipulate me into giving her $3K of business money for her to get a divorce lawyer

-6/22 - she tells me she has retained a lawyer (even though we had always agreed to mediate), she got the money to do so from her first husband (I'm the second).

-6/24 - she tells me she's sorry and misses me.  I give her instructions for reconciliation (baby steps which don't include getting back together).  We agree to mediate our divorce.

-6/26 - I tell her I'm worried for her.  She calls me back crying and asks me to take her in for mental help.  I tell her that I will pause the divorce if she gets help.  I ask that she have somebody else take her, as I'm not ready to see her yet.  She reveals that sociopathic friend stole a large sum of money from her, and that she has asked him to stay away.  She will still not proceed with my reconciliation instructions.

-6/27 through 7/1 - she writes and calls me daily.  She asks for me to pause the divorce, and is acting as though I'm going to be coming home at some point soon.  She says she'll break up with second guy as soon as I move out from female friend's place, and demands that I do so for her to begin our reconciliation.  "I love you, I miss you, I'm sorry." She abruptly ends conversations when I make valid points (and has since 6/15, she's never really done that before, she usually stays and fights).  We had started a productive conversation on 6/29 that hasn't been finished.  She begged for it to continue on 7/1, but she wouldn't have said conversation with me if I wasn't alone (I could not get alone).  I again ask that she get some help as I'm very worried for her, and her illogical/reckless actions over the last several weeks.  I don't hear from her again after telling her that on 7/1.

-7/2 - I don't hear from her most of the day.  She tells me she wants to talk to me when I'm alone.  I message and call her when I'm alone and get no response (she's one to respond/answer right away).  She does call back for a short conversation, but she is evasive and tells me she's falling in love with the second guy.  

I do want to proceed with mediation but can't without her cooperation.  I do not feel as though as I want to proceed with our marriage, but I do miss her, want the best for her, and care for her immensely (and am having tons of trouble making sense of this part for myself).  I'm worried about her new lifestyle, and how it's affecting our home, property, and kids. I don't want to blindside her with a divorce filing.

I really don't know what to do.  It could be the hooks she has in me, but for some reason I feel better when I'm getting along with her, but it's not lasting as long as it usually does, and there was a massive shift in her behavior 6/15 (prior to that, there was no recklessness, just constant contact and begging for me).  I don't know how to manage this new behavior.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Rev]

I really don't know what to do.  It could be the hooks she has in me, but for some reason I feel better when I'm getting along with her, but it's not lasting as long as it usually does, and there was a massive shift in her behavior 6/15 (prior to that, there was no recklessness, just constant contact and begging for me).  I don't know how to manage this new behavior.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Hi Novo ...

I just wanted to say welcome - really sorry that you are here, very happy that you have found us.

And - I wanted to say "thank you" for sharing your story, including the detailed step by step out line.  If it's okay, maybe you could just fill out a bit of context?  You've asked for advice, so before I, or anybody else, do that responsibly, it would help to understand how your story is anchored in the day to day.

1) You have a third child that you don't seem to name. How old?  Where do they live?
2) Are you in therapy?  If you are, what are you working on?  If not, to you have an understanding of how to shop for one who understands men's issues?  I say this because with what you describe here, there are many moving parts and you will need coaching to navigate this. All people do when there is this level of complexity.
3) Are your children safe?  Who is advocating for their needs? Are they free to speak their minds? Are they confident enough to do so?
4) Are you in a part of the world where the pandemic is still having a negative social impact?  How are you dealing emotionally with the effects of the pandemic? Where are your energy levels generally?
5) Are your parents involved in the life of your children?  If so, is it positive?

Now... my friend, well done to protect yourself and take a stand. Personally, that took a lot for me (my ex was predatory) and I didn't have children with her. Don't lose sight of that self respect. You will need it to weather the emotional journey that is coming. Regardless of where this ends up, many of the decisions that you will take, you will need to take on your own - and that takes energy because validation is elusive in cases like that. Self compassion and clear, unwavering boundaries are your allies.  So, spare no moment to pat yourself on the back, even for the small things.  Finally, my mentor who helped me get out of a really bad situation, kept reminding me to not try to have a conversation with a person who was not there - in other words, she got me to focus on seeing my wife (now ex) for who she is, not who I thought she was or worse, who I hoped she could be ... if only _________ (fill in the blank).

I hope this really helps.

Hang in there. In the meantime, know that you will find solidarity here.

Write back if and when you are ready.

Rev

[NovoComeco]

Hi Rev, thank you for welcoming me.

1) You have a third child that you don't seem to name. How old?  Where do they live?
He is about to turn 21.  He went to prison when he was 16.  Said prison is about 100 miles away from home. He has always been the "special child" for wife, and she let him get away with most things as a child, against my protests of course.  He is getting released in November.

2) Are you in therapy?  If you are, what are you working on?  If not, to you have an understanding of how to shop for one who understands men's issues?  I say this because with what you describe here, there are many moving parts and you will need coaching to navigate this. All people do when there is this level of complexity.
I was in personal therapy from mid-2017 until March 2021.  I initially went in for depression/anxiety issues that developed after some life changes.  I had improved a lot by mid-2018.  I stayed in because I had several wife, career, and childhood issues that I felt I needed to work on.  By fall 2020, I felt "cured", but stayed in through my counselor's move out of state in March 2021.  Around March 2021, wife's more violent behaviors became more frequent, and I made several unscheduled appointments for help navigating those.  I asked wife to begin marriage counseling with me in March 2021, but she refused.  After she dragged me home in May 2021, we have been in marriage counseling weekly (even through all of this), though she only stayed for about 15 minutes on June 15. I'm going to be shopping new counselors for myself beginning next week.

3) Are your children safe?  Who is advocating for their needs? Are they free to speak their minds? Are they confident enough to do so?
I'm not entirely sure.  I have been painted as the bad guy for leaving in the first place, and that has continued throughout.  The sociopathic man she brought around I KNOW is not a safe person to have around (criminality, drug use, etc), and I know nothing of the other, and it makes me nervous that he's living there without her really knowing him.  Neither of these men work, neither of them have stable housing, or their own vehicles.  On June 16, I tried to take both kids, but she/sociopath threatened getting the police involved, and she convinced the younger one by phone to not go with me (so the older wouldn't either). I have told both kids to reach out to me if there is ANYTHING strange/unsafe going on, and both told their mother that I was prodding. I did have both of them last weekend for a visit, but neither of them seemed to want to be here and both acted like they were fulfilling an obligation.  Mother doesn't really have rules on them (I do), and they prefer that because it allows them to be on video games all day/etc.

4) Are you in a part of the world where the pandemic is still having a negative social impact?  How are you dealing emotionally with the effects of the pandemic? Where are your energy levels generally?
We are in Colorado, and the pandemic has all but concluded here.  Both she and I are fully vaccinated.  We made it through better than we went in. My energy levels were great before all of this ramped up in March, and they have alternated from good to bad based on my ebb/flows with her.  I haven't been sleeping as much since I moved out on 4/22, and some of that is because I don't feel like I need/want as much; but half the time it's because I am having bad dreams relating to wife.

5) Are your parents involved in the life of your children?  If so, is it positive?
Both of my parents are gone, my mother passed 15 years ago, and my father 4 years ago (but he was never in my/our life).  The only family I really have is my brother and my grandmother, but both are 1000 miles away respectively, and have limited contact with our life.  Wife has her family turned against me (her mother has been gone 10 years, her father we might see once a year), and she has gone on a
smear campaign against me with all of our mutual friends and our employees (we own a business).

Now... my friend, well done to protect yourself and take a stand. Personally, that took a lot for me (my ex was predatory) and I didn't have children with her. Don't lose sight of that self respect. You will need it to weather the emotional journey that is coming. Regardless of where this ends up, many of the decisions that you will take, you will need to take on your own - and that takes energy because validation is elusive in cases like that. Self compassion and clear, unwavering boundaries are your allies.  So, spare no moment to pat yourself on the back, even for the small things.  Finally, my mentor who helped me get out of a really bad situation, kept reminding me to not try to have a conversation with a person who was not there - in other words, she got me to focus on seeing my wife (now ex) for who she is, not who I thought she was or worse, who I hoped she could be ... if only _________ (fill in the blank).
Thank you.  That last part is what is really hard for me.

I hope this really helps.

Hang in there. In the meantime, know that you will find solidarity here.

Write back if and when you are ready.

Rev

Thanks again Rev!

[Rev]

Hi Rev, thank you for welcoming me.



Now... my friend, well done to protect yourself and take a stand. Personally, that took a lot for me (my ex was predatory) and I didn't have children with her. Don't lose sight of that self respect. You will need it to weather the emotional journey that is coming. Regardless of where this ends up, many of the decisions that you will take, you will need to take on your own - and that takes energy because validation is elusive in cases like that. Self compassion and clear, unwavering boundaries are your allies.  So, spare no moment to pat yourself on the back, even for the small things.  Finally, my mentor who helped me get out of a really bad situation, kept reminding me to not try to have a conversation with a person who was not there - in other words, she got me to focus on seeing my wife (now ex) for who she is, not who I thought she was or worse, who I hoped she could be ... if only _________ (fill in the blank).
Thank you.  That last part is what is really hard for me.

Hi again - so, I must tell you how the your ability to articulate everything that is going on in such a detailed way, with lots of self awareness included, is really impressive.   You asked for advice, so based on what you've written here, that's what I'm going to give you, and as I like to say, my opinions and a buck fifty buys you a not so good cup of coffee...  

Seriously - while there are many moving parts to your story, which for some people can be a stressor in of itself, you have clearly laid them out so you have a aerial view of them. With that, you can plot a realistic path.  That's actually the biggest piece of the work in terms of tasks - like 80% of it as far as I am concerned. But as the saying goes, both God and the Devil are in the details.  The last 20 %, the piece that brings you home so to speak, is where the most of your effort is expended, which is why you're having trouble laying the boundaries you need to (at least as I see it based on what I read here).  It is impossible for anyone who has put the effort you have put in to not be somewhat personally diminished.  That tipping point you hit, where you said that your energy levels were good until ... and then you began to spiral again ... that's typical of being in a relationship with people with personality challenges like BPD. They have this uncanny way of pouncing in otherwise unpredictable ways. My take on that is that if they have survived, it's not because they have built a solid foundation upon which they stand, it's that they have learned how to defend themselves by keeping things unstable around them and hiding out in the chaos. Call it emotional camouflage.

So... advice. What does this mean for you?  

I'd say that it's time for you to regroup a little - call a time out to use a sports analogy. If you can focus on one thing right now, it's to summon the energy to accept your current wife for who she is and let go of any illusions that things will change. The only thing that can change is your ability to manage things - regulate your emotions so you can regulate your behavior. To use another analogy, what makes Tom Brady the absolute best is his ability to sit in the pocket, analyze, and then execute.  

My guess is that you will need help from some people who can distance themselves and be emotionless in their sense of tactics. This too is normal, because when we are in the middle of our own drama, it can be hard. Even Brady needs a coach to get inside his head to tell him, "You got this".  

So - what does your intuition tell you?  Is there someone right now who can take stock of where you are right now, in the moment, to help you resource the energy for this last 20% so that you can bring in home?  In my case it was my lawyer who just could empathize with me enough to the push all the buttons he needed to. My mentor really got me to understand that the very things that I had not been strong enough to do for myself are the very things that my ex used against me - namely that she would rarely treat me with equal respect. Note how I have worded that - equal may mean to treat each other equally badly.  So it's about the logic of it all, not the emotional side of things.

I say that because I am hoping the you hear that if you get to a rock bottom place where the inequality is more than you can stomach, you'll be amazed at how you all of a sudden are able to do things that previously immobilized you. For me, it was the financial abuse that pushed me over the edge. I could feel the ice in my veins at that point. I no longer felt any shame, and less anger, when I got in touch with that.

I hope this makes sense.

Hang in there. You're close to where you need to be for the next leg. But don't rush this part of it. It's also pretty critical.

Your friend,

Rev

[NovoComeco]

So - what does your intuition tell you?  Is there someone right now who can take stock of where you are right now, in the moment, to help you resource the energy for this last 20% so that you can bring in home?  In my case it was my lawyer who just could empathize with me enough to the push all the buttons he needed to. My mentor really got me to understand that the very things that I had not been strong enough to do for myself are the very things that my ex used against me - namely that she would rarely treat me with equal respect. Note how I have worded that - equal may mean to treat each other equally badly.  So it's about the logic of it all, not the emotional side of things.

Right now, my intuition is telling me to wave the white flag.  All through this experience, 80% of people have been telling me that I'm wrong to feel and act they way I have been over the last several months.  My gut and heart are saying to go back to her and continue to be a slave to her emotions instead of mine, because feeling that way is more comfortable than how I feel now.  I'm more used to it.

Her inconsistency is what I can't handle.  She is alternating from blowing me up to blowing me off from conversation to conversation.  She is more concerned with my relationship with the female friend than she is with our relationship, or the relationship she's in now (she does these phone/text marathons with me right in front of him, and says things one shouldn't in front of their new boyfriend).  She freely admits that she'll drop him as soon as I decide to come home, but she has given me zero assurances that I have anything worth coming home to but more of the same I had before I decided to leave.

She keeps checking in on me randomly, in this morning's example, it ended up being 90 minutes of verbal abuse/put downs, even as I was opening up to her.  I've talked to her twice since, and she's putting on a smug front like I'm the most unimportant person in the world to her.  Like was I really with her as long as I was just to get kicked around like this, and did I not notice it?

The female friend has been the most incredible source of strength for me through all of this.  She too is going through her own stuff, so we just support each other. My intuition originally brought me to go back to stay with her in the first place.  I'm still trying to trust that, in addition because there are all kinds of cosmic-type things with her that have occurred that have shown me that I am in the right place in being here with her.

I need to convince myself that being strong for myself is what I need to do, because in the end that is going to bring me the most joy and happiness.  I have been trying in vain for months and years to get my wife to come around to be the person I need her to be, but she is incapable of even understanding what I'm asking for, and on top of that any assurances I might have had before are out the window with her erratic behaviors over the last few weeks.  She's not going to change even if I want her to, even if I just give up and go back to her, or even if I hope to only be some version of friends with her.

The hardest part is that all I ever wanted from her was to be able to love her freely, and she was never able to give me that.  And she still isn't.  I don't even want to love her sexually (it's been awful for years), I just want to love the person, which is why I didn't completely cut her off any of the times I left.  I miss her, I miss the kids, and I miss many facets of our life together.  But when I think of going back to it, I remember the general sense of doom and hopelessness I lived with daily, and there is no way that I want to live with that again, even as much as I try to rationalize it as not being "that bad".

[Rev]

But when I think of going back to it, I remember the general sense of doom and hopelessness I lived with daily, and there is no way that I want to live with that again, even as much as I try to rationalize it as not being "that bad".

So ----  here is the crux of it all.  The rest is too much over thinking. That's totally, totally understandable. The over thinking part - you've got so much invested, it must seem really hard by times to know which way is up.

So here is the main piece that I am going to repeat.

Is there someone right now who can take stock of where you are right now, in the moment, to help you resource the energy for this last 20% so that you can bring it home?

My suggestion is that you do nothing until you find this person (or people) and they get you to a stronger place before offering any interpretation or advice as to what to actually "do".  Until then, every single thing you will do you will second guess and your ex will have no reason to change, one way or the other.

Hang in there. Stay this course. It's not easy - it hurts even. But regaining your sanity is never not worth it. (Double negative just for the fun of it.)

Rev