Met up with old BPD friend, now have doubts about ex-boyfriend.

[Sappho11]

So I may have armchair-misdiagnosed my ex-partner, and I'm not sure what to think of it. I currently do counselling and my therapist has also suggested that my ex sounds very narcissistic. He's definitely on the vulnerable/covert side, however.

Today I met up with an old school friend of mine whom I hadn't seen in a decade. We now live in different countries but we were once very close, like sisters. She's a diagnosed pwBPD and is still in treatment for it; I'm intimately familiar with the turbulence of these relationships thanks to her. But she's also highly intelligent and talking to her has always been a pleasure.

I was happy to see her but we spent most of the time talking about her issues. There was very little actual catch-up and she didn't really seem interested in what I had to say. Knowing her, and knowing her well, I think she might have been interested in what has happened in my life, but she was just nervous and rambling because that's her modus operandi. No big deal.

That said, the chat we had was civil, but it also got to me somehow. I don't consciously remember being distressed by her behaviour when we were adolescents (except for very scattered, incoherent shards of memories of explosive fights). Today she complained to me about her acute loneliness. I remember giving her a similar lamento ten years ago, which at the time was only met with a single glimpse of superficial empathy. Today we spent most of the time talking about her. She spoke like a waterfall.

It got me thinking about my ex. The undercurrent was very similar: my feeling that no matter what I said, I wasn't really being heard. Both my school friend and my ex also exhibited a low-key, "live wire" nervousness in conversation, which is hard to describe exactly. But my school friend seemed to be a lot more distressed by the whole thing than my ex ever was; and my ex certainly never spoke as eloquently and profusely about himself (I think). With my school friend, there was always a common ground of respect and appreciation, even when she dysregulated; with my ex, devaluation meant being treated like dirt.

Perhaps men, no matter how emotional, show their feelings differently than women, no matter how rational. Perhaps I was completely mistaken. Or perhaps, as one of my friends recently said, "Human behaviour is complex. We try to understand it by drawing a circle around certain traits and labelling them a certain way, but at the end of the day, these labels are just vehicles of understanding".

I still don't know what to feel about the whole thing. I was happy to see her, and I could have talked to her for hours, but something unsettled me, and I don't yet know what it is.

[Couper]

To better understand, do you think you may have misdiagnosed the ex-boyfriend because he doesn't fit the same template as your friend that has actually been diagnosed as BPD?

If that is the case, I would submit two observations:

1: An intimate relationship between two people is completely different than a regular friendship.  I know for a fact that I see a side of my wife that the outside world never does.  Whoever has been in an intimate relationship with your friend has likely seen a side of her that you never have.

2: Just as normally functioning people are all different, BPD's are going to be different amongst themselves, too.  That is evident by the various accounts on this forum.  Were I in your shoes and having doubts, I would go back to one of those criteria lists (what is it, at least 5-out-of-9 things on the list must match?) and revisit how many of each you think fit up to each individual. 

[B53]

Sappho11,

 I agree with Couper. My ex was diagnosed and when dysregulating he was a nasty piece of work, not eloquent. He also never cheated on me and has never searched out another person during a breakup. He also had the same job for 20 years. They are all the same and different at the same time. I think just a few traits can make for a difficult relationship.

B53

[grumpydonut]

Sappho,

I think your greatest strength is also your greatest weakness. You analyse everything extremely deeply. It's severe rumination that you'll look back on later as a complete waste of time.

Turn to what you know. Your relationship was unstable, you were abused and it was very cluster-Besk.

Also, there is a lot of commorbidity between BPD / NPD and OCPD. It doesn't matter, each disorder = abuse of their significant other.

[Sappho11]

To better understand, do you think you may have misdiagnosed the ex-boyfriend because he doesn't fit the same template as your friend that has actually been diagnosed as BPD?

If that is the case, I would submit two observations:

1: An intimate relationship between two people is completely different than a regular friendship.  I know for a fact that I see a side of my wife that the outside world never does.  Whoever has been in an intimate relationship with your friend has likely seen a side of her that you never have.

2: Just as normally functioning people are all different, BPD's are going to be different amongst themselves, too.  That is evident by the various accounts on this forum.  Were I in your shoes and having doubts, I would go back to one of those criteria lists (what is it, at least 5-out-of-9 things on the list must match?) and revisit how many of each you think fit up to each individual.  

Thank you for your input, Couper, as always it's much appreciated. My ex matches six or seven criteria. The self-harm is missing but it's said that this is common in adult patients, they generally look for less conspicuous outlets.

And you're right – my school friend told me of two occasions where two exes of hers had to drive her to the emergency room. But it all got me thinking "My ex wasn't like that". But of course it's all a matter of degrees.

Sappho11,

 I agree with Couper. My ex was diagnosed and when dysregulating he was a nasty piece of work, not eloquent. He also never cheated on me and has never searched out another person during a breakup. He also had the same job for 20 years. They are all the same and different at the same time. I think just a few traits can make for a difficult relationship.

B53

Thank you, B53. That makes perfect sense.

Sappho,

I think your greatest strength is also your greatest weakness. You analyse everything extremely deeply. It's severe rumination that you'll look back on later as a complete waste of time.

Turn to what you know. Your relationship was unstable, you were abused and it was very cluster-Besk.

Also, there is a lot of commorbidity between BPD / NPD and OCPD. It doesn't matter, each disorder = abuse of their significant other.

grumpydonut, thank you for your input. I don't actually ruminate, I only come to this forum to sort out my thoughts and then I go about my day. It doesn't impair me in my life.

If I may give you some feedback: I've often read from you comments such as the one above, to other posters as well, which go along the lines of "You're overthinking", "you're over-analysing", even if they've only made a single post. It may be well-meaning but it comes across as judgmental, impatient and invalidating, and I imagine it shuts up other people who don't express their needs well already. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of this forum seems to be to freely talk about one's issues and experiences with BPD. This isn't overthinking, it's mere reflection, and hopefully other posters too go about their day with a sense of relief and increased clarity (as do I).

[Sappho11]

Some more similarities between my school friend and my ex, now that I've slept on it.

Yesterday my school friend said that she found relationships problematic, because she already had difficulties sorting out her own feelings, so how should she be able to sort out someone else's? She was convinced that her partner's feelings were her responsibility and she even literally spoke of "merging" with her partner. When I questioned this attitude, saying that everybody's feelings were their own, and that your only responsibility towards another person was to behave decently and treat them well, she got agitated and irritated, though she seemed to understand, on a purely cognitive level, that this was closer to the truth. My ex was exactly the same; only that he didn't have this spark of insight and instead insisted I was wrong, that partners always carried responsibility for the other's feelings.

Last night after the meeting, knowing how deep abandonment issues run and given that we're unlikely to meet again in the foreseeable future, I texted my friend a brief message how great it was to see her, whether she'd made it to her next appointment on time, etc. She replied this morning in a very stilted manner, and very subtly, very drily hinted that she had been happy to see me, but without saying so directly and without any sign of cordiality. I recognised the style immediately: it was exactly, and I mean down to the very wording of it, something that my ex could have texted.

I suppose the main difference between these two relationships was that with her, I somehow always knew how important we were to another (and we both went to a boarding school, so neither of us could have "left" the other even if we had wanted to), while with my ex I was always unsure, and it made me react in ways that were less than ideal.

Bottom line, I regret not recognising the similarities earlier. It's easy to say now but perhaps things would have been different if I had known what I was dealing with. It would certainly have helped protect myself, and it would certainly have made me a better partner.

[once removed]

This thread has been unlocked after staff review.

All participants should keep in mind going forward:

2.2 Advising and Supporting Others: Members should offer advice as peer opinions targeted directly to the host of the thread. Members shall offer only compassionate, well founded and fact based advice. Members critiquing, or challenging the advise of others should offer their comments in a respectful, positive and constructive manner. Members should respect and embrace the opinions of others, not deride them, and recognize diversity is an important part of the learning process.
www.bpdfamily.com/guidelines#advising
 
2.3 Hosting Discussions: Members are expected to "host" of any thread (topic) that they initiate. As a host, the member shall be responsible to guide the discussion to keep the participants on target, encourage the contribution of other members, summarize or comment on the overall information provided, and otherwise be a good host. The host should contact a Moderator or Advisor for assistance if any controversy arises that cannot be resolved collegially.
www.bpdfamily.com/guidelines#hosting

2.4 Divisive Exchanges: All members should feel safe in their expressions; we are all here to heal from abuse. Please keep in mind that the membership is comprised of diverse experiences and backgrounds; this is a great strength of our community. Forum is healthy when conducted in a respectful, and tolerant manner. Under no circumstances shall members be permitted to engage in divisive or abusive exchanges or be judgmental of other members.

If you have an offensive comment directed toward you, do not engage it. If a you find the subject matter or a response to be triggering, do not engage it. Step away from your computer. If, upon reflection, you feel that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, please contact a moderator. The staff will investigate with an impartial eye. There is a button for this purpose at the bottom right corner of every post titled "report to moderator."
www.bpdfamily.com/guidelines#divisive

[Mutt]

Yesterday my school friend said that she found relationships problematic, because she already had difficulties sorting out her own feelings, so how should she be able to sort out someone else's?

A r/s isn’t about sorting out someone else’s feelings it’s about what you reflected on earlier which is validating that person’s feelings. You felt like you weren’t being heard.

Some people are not comfortable with their own feelings and that transcends to other parts of their lives. If you don’t understand your own feelings then how are you going to understand other people’s feelings.

Some people don’t feel comfortable when there is stillness and they are alone with their thoughts they like to be as occupied as much as possible so they don’t have quiet moments alone with their thoughts. The like to hydro plane through life.

Some people are comfortable by themselves  and can self reflect and others have a difficult time with it. People are on a spectrum. There are all kinds of people that’s a part of life..

Bottom line, I regret not recognising the similarities earlier. It's easy to say now but perhaps things would have been different if I had known what I was dealing with. It would certainly have helped protect myself, and it would certainly have made me a better partner.

Most of us on the board are not professionals and cannot diagnose. What we can look at are traits of the disorder.

As you probably already know professionals misdiagnose BPD as BP or diagnose it as BP for insurance reasons often  there are comorbidities  and usually there is an underlying depression and anxiety and sometimes that is diagnosed and the PD is missed.

On the topic of abandonment it is a self fulfilling prophecy - abandoned imagine it real and a pwBPD will avoid abandonment at all costs and abandon their partners before they’re abandoned even if it’s imagined. Its possible perhaps with the knowledge that you have that it could of extended the r/s longer but if a pwBPD are not getting treatment or getting help for themselves it’s likely that they will fall back on maladaptive coping skills because that’s all that they know- it is a way of survival at the center of the disorder is the core wound of abandonment that they would have to be explored in therapy.

You’ve learned from the experience because instead of hydroplaning and moving as quickly  as possible from one thing to the next without giving thought - you decided to sort through your thoughts and feelings about you experienced and you can take what you learned and apply it in many types of r/s’s.

[EZEarache]

Hopefully it's normal to have second doubts about your own personal impressions on the suspected person with BPD's traits.

Lately, my ex has been doing much better. We've managed to just focus our conversations on our son for about a month. As a result I started thinking, maybe I was all wrong about this. Maybe, the breakup was the cause of all this irrational behavior, and I'm over-reacting. Maybe, I'm the one causing all of the issues in the relationship.

This weekend I took my son on his first backcountry camping trip with a few friends. He just turned one, so I carried him the mile and a half to the campsite, along with our tent, sleeping bags, food, diapers and a few choice toys to get us through the night. He was a pretty happy camper, and so was I. I felt like I was a good Dad. My friend took photos/videos of us, and I asked her to send it to my ex. I wanted my ex to see that the baby was well cared for and enjoying himself. She's threatened to file for full custody before, so I'm really careful with this stuff.

This morning I got a message about how hurtful it was that our friend sent her photos of me and the baby smiling. That I never smiled in the photos she took of me and the baby. That it was another reminder that she was the reason I was depressed. That she told our friend this too.

I can only imagine what she said to our friend. Hopefully my ex wasn't mean, because our friend still wants to be friends with my ex. This little anecdote was enough to snap me out of the delusion that my ex doesn't have BPD. She does, she just has been a bit more regulated lately.

It's not me and it's not you Sappho11; it's them. As others have stated in this thread, there is a spectrum. Sometimes the symptoms are high on the spectrum and sometimes they are low. I prefer the days that are low on the spectrum.