How do you deal with your own codependency issues?

[red leaf]

It's been a while since my last post. My BPD ex and I were together for more than 5 years. Needless to say, we've been through a number of break-up and make-up cycles. Roughly a month ago I decided to go NC again soon after he decided to move abroad, coldly informing me that he wanted to move on with his (love) life.
Now...I've been in therapy for almost a year. Although I do feel more aware of the consequences that a long-term relationship with a BPD partner can bring to a person, I now find myself dealing with my own diagnosis: codependency and a well-rooted depression.
Has anybody had to cope with similar realizations? I am truly struggling...and being faced with feelings of guilt and inescapability.

[Ventak]

Hi red leaf, thank you for posting this.  I was considering a similar post as I've finally reached the realization that I really need to start making this a priority and there are no recent threads I've seen.

After 2.5 years of therapy, my psychiatrist finally said about a month ago - you've been seeing me for a while now and all we do is talk about your relationship with your wife... do you think it's a good time to start focusing on you and your needs?  In your therapy do you work on yourself or your relationship?  If primarily your relationship, do you think it would be time to work on yourself too?

Based on recommendations from others on this forum I have joined CoDA (Co-Dependents Anonymous).  I'm only two sessions in so I can't speak for its' value.  Their website (coda.org) recommends that you commit to at least 6 sessions so I think it takes some time to even start to feel useful.

About an hour ago I happened to read through this article... you might find it useful:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

A search on the forums found these prior threads.  I've only skimmed them, but they might give you some answers to questions:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=320514.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56458.0;all
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=197412.0

Hope this helps, let me know how it goes!

[Rev]

It's been a while since my last post. My BPD ex and I were together for more than 5 years. Needless to say, we've been through a number of break-up and make-up cycles. Roughly a month ago I decided to go NC again soon after he decided to move abroad, coldly informing me that he wanted to move on with his (love) life.
Now...I've been in therapy for almost a year. Although I do feel more aware of the consequences that a long-term relationship with a BPD partner can bring to a person, I now find myself dealing with my own diagnosis: codependency and a well-rooted depression.
Has anybody had to cope with similar realizations? I am truly struggling...and being faced with feelings of guilt and inescapability.

Hi - Yes I have struggled in the past.  My suggestion, what worked for me over a 18 month period to reframe a lot of bad habits that led to a lot of sticky situations that needed cleaning up in terms of my relationships, friendship, professional and intimate, was to focus on my strengths and keep pushing myself in that direction.

If you are looking for professional help, search out someone who comes out of a Strengths Based approach or an Acceptance and Commitment Therapy approach. Depends on what your learning style is. But my feeling is that at some point, the "therapy" needs to stop and the "coaching" needs to kick in.

I'd add that one needs to be careful about a strength based approach, because it takes a fair amount of integrity to not delude oneself into thinking that the problem "lies completely over there", if you catch my meaning. Integrity is the ability to hold oneself accountable for one's actions based on some pretty solid values.   But, when you think about it, if you can get there without beating yourself up for no good reason, then the codependence with begin to fade over time.

Hope this helps.

Rev

[shopgirl26]

Hi redleaf,

First off, good for you for all the work you've been doing in therapy to heal and grow as a person. That's hard work.

I myself am a codependent too. In addition to the online BPD family support groups, I've been going to CODA meetings online for about a month now, and I find them quite helpful. Last week, for example, the topic of discussion was "trusting ourselves." That topic was perfectly timed for me.

Coda has been helpful in looking at my own patterns––what attracted me to a pwBPD? What did I get out of that dynamic? How did it serve my identity as a tryer and a caregiver? Why, even 4 months post-breakup, do I prioritize the needs and feelings of my ex over my own? How was my self esteem affected?

It's uncomfortable work. I sometimes catch myself trying to dodge meetings, but I know when that urge takes over, that a Coda meeting is exactly where I need to be.

[red leaf]

... do you think it's a good time to start focusing on you and your needs?  In your therapy do you work on yourself or your relationship?  If primarily your relationship, do you think it would be time to work on yourself too?

Hi Ventak. Thank you for mentioning similar threads in your comment. I have just read the posts. At least it is nice to see how many people are sharing such post-breakup experiences - and willing to share their feelings and awareness of unhealthy coping mechanisms. Have you read any books about the topic?

I also have issues focusing on myself and my own baggage. Knowing that my significant other suffered from BPD sometimes serves me as an excuse: I did all I could, HE was the unstable one, HE took advantage of my eagerness to help and love him. In a way, I am scared of what I might find...what would you say is keeping you from listening to your needs?
 

[red leaf]

If you are looking for professional help, search out someone who comes out of a Strengths Based approach or an Acceptance and Commitment Therapy approach. Depends on what your learning style is. But my feeling is that at some point, the "therapy" needs to stop and the "coaching" needs to kick in.

Hi Rev. Thanks for your advice. I had never heard about those approaches. I will do some research.

I have been wondering about coaching too, actually. Sometimes I feel like I am digging without truly building the ability to "reframe my bad habits", as you said. However, I feel like I might miss the integrity you are talking about...still. How did you work on that aspect?

[red leaf]

I myself am a codependent too. In addition to the online BPD family support groups, I've been going to CODA meetings online for about a month now, and I find them quite helpful. Last week, for example, the topic of discussion was "trusting ourselves." That topic was perfectly timed for me.

Hi shopgirl. Thank you for your kind words. It is hard work! I find it very hard to stay focused, to recognize codependency as a real issue. I can feel how it interferes with many aspects of my life. I can feel how it contributed to the toxicity of the relationship. Yet, it is hard to be self-conscious when thinking again about all the good times, words, gestures. My mind strives to normalize it, and that might be why I have not tried CODA so far (which Ventak mentioned in the previous post). How did you find the strenght to attend, let go...trust yourself a bit more?

[shopgirl26]

Hi shopgirl. Thank you for your kind words. It is hard work! I find it very hard to stay focused, to recognize codependency as a real issue. I can feel how it interferes with many aspects of my life. I can feel how it contributed to the toxicity of the relationship. Yet, it is hard to be self-conscious when thinking again about all the good times, words, gestures. My mind strives to normalize it, and that might be why I have not tried CODA so far (which Ventak mentioned in the previous post). How did you find the strenght to attend, let go...trust yourself a bit more?

Hi redleaf,

I play a little trick on myself where I only give myself ten minute's notice to go to a Zoom meeting. If I wake up in the morning with a plan to attend an afternoon meeting, I'll get busy and make up a bunch of excuses to miss it. This has been working for me so far.

Honestly, every time I log off after the meeting, I feel a huge weight has lifted from my shoulders. I just get to talk for 5 minutes. No one is allowed to offer advice, just listen. And I find listening to others' stories reminds me that I am not alone, that I will survive, that I'm stronger than I realize, and that I can avoid this kind of unhealthy dynamic in relationships going forward.

[once removed]

to what extent do you feel like these things (depression and codependency) play a role in your life?

daily basis? big way? debilitating way? situational?

[Rev]

Hi Rev. Thanks for your advice. I had never heard about those approaches. I will do some research.

I have been wondering about coaching too, actually. Sometimes I feel like I am digging without truly building the ability to "reframe my bad habits", as you said. However, I feel like I might miss the integrity you are talking about...still. How did you work on that aspect?

How did I work on the integrity aspect?  In my case, I went to see a coach who did what all coaches are paid to do: She pushed me until I had enough momentum that I kept moving forward.  She would challenge me on my b-s or neg-self talk - she just kept repeating herself over and over until it stuck. There's no way around it.  If a musician wants move from playing notes to making music, the playing of the notes just needs to become second nature - scales, scales, scales.  

Coaching is not therapy. Coaching is about learning to put skills into action. Therapy is about healing, about self-awareness in the sense of identifying patterns.  Therapy is about learning to trust in yourself, coaching about trusting your coach so you can trust in your skills.  I know that's a bit of an over simplification, but in a nutshell, there it is. I spent about 4k on my coach - her sessions were 90 minutes and she would send me the audio recording of our talks - those I listened to over and over and over and over and over ...

Has taken my about two years in total to get to where I am today - but to be honest, in all my life I have never been this on top of my game as I am today. Best 4 k I ever spent.

So here's a question - the integrity piece - what does your intuition tell you is the missing piece to kick it into gear?

Rev

[Ventak]

Have you read any books about the topic?

I'm still reading the CODA blue book.. will likely branch out after I've given that some thought, and then look for more material.  I'm only about a two week lead from you on my journey ;)

I also have issues focusing on myself and my own baggage. Knowing that my significant other suffered from BPD sometimes serves me as an excuse: I did all I could, HE was the unstable one, HE took advantage of my eagerness to help and love him. In a way, I am scared of what I might find...what would you say is keeping you from listening to your needs?

The only "need" I know that I have, is affection.  Literally if I got 4 good hugs a day I think I would be satisfied.  My BPDw is generally capable of meeting that need, except for the past few months with the state mandated NC order.  My other need is likely taking care of others, which turns out to be somewhat dysfunctional.  It's hard for me to process how to deal with this as it is all I've ever known and I like doing it.  What I have to learn is when my taking care of someone else is causing them harm inadvertently (generally by not forcing their growth) and stop myself.  I actually did this today with the help of this forum and am quite proud of myself.  I do well with this aspect of caregiving with children, so I just have to tap into that understanding.

What I'm working on right now is finding out what I like.  That is the trick for me, as my life has always revolved around trying to make my spouse happy (38 years worth in total).  My early years were spent trying to make my birth-mother happy.. so it is really all that I know.

While I'm trying to figure that out... it is exceptionally difficult because of life circumstances.  I work full time (1.5 jobs right now as I'm covering someone who is on a 10 week leave of absence) while trying to raise two 2.5 year olds who are both special needs (Autism).  Turns out what I like is sleep, LOL. 

So what my therapist has me doing is spending a few minutes twice a day trying to meditate on my emotions and uncover what I'm feeling.  Not easy, as my emotions tend to be absorbed from my spouse as well.

[red leaf]

to what extent do you feel like these things (depression and codependency) play a role in your life?

daily basis? big way? debilitating way? situational?

Hi once removed. Thank you for your question. They are an everyday challenge...they have always been, even if in different ways. Like many on this platform, I find myself struggling with self-worth issues. I have always been a self-reliant person, practically speaking (I have always worked, taken care of my studies, fought for financial independence, etc.). In a way, that gave me an excuse to not see how emotionally dependent I was...and still am.  So, when everything around me fell apart, including my independence and my relationship (which of course had "fallen apart" several times before) I started feeling depressed. That led to a series of discoveries, including the codependency patterns I have been following up to this day.
I have never had very healthy relationships. I felt like giving a lot, like accepting what I didn't want to accept, like feeling empty no matter what. I kept calling it 'love'. In a way, I have always given people what I felt I had never had, but this unluckily is nothing else than a paradox. When I met my BPD partner 7 years ago, I experienced validation, encouragement, complete and immediate acceptance. My own toxic behaviour was in a way justified...I believe. I got stronger, and not it's hard to let go, although I cannot put all the blame on him: codependency was already part of me when the relationship started, I just didn't know.

[red leaf]

Hi redleaf,

I play a little trick on myself where I only give myself ten minute's notice to go to a Zoom meeting. If I wake up in the morning with a plan to attend an afternoon meeting, I'll get busy and make up a bunch of excuses to miss it. This has been working for me so far.

Honestly, every time I log off after the meeting, I feel a huge weight has lifted from my shoulders. I just get to talk for 5 minutes. No one is allowed to offer advice, just listen. And I find listening to others' stories reminds me that I am not alone, that I will survive, that I'm stronger than I realize, and that I can avoid this kind of unhealthy dynamic in relationships going forward.

Thank you so much shopgirl. I'll give it a try

[red leaf]

I'm still reading the CODA blue book.. will likely branch out after I've given that some thought, and then look for more material.  I'm only about a two week lead from you on my journey ;)

The only "need" I know that I have, is affection.  Literally if I got 4 good hugs a day I think I would be satisfied.  My BPDw is generally capable of meeting that need, except for the past few months with the state mandated NC order.  My other need is likely taking care of others, which turns out to be somewhat dysfunctional.  It's hard for me to process how to deal with this as it is all I've ever known and I like doing it.  What I have to learn is when my taking care of someone else is causing them harm inadvertently (generally by not forcing their growth) and stop myself.  I actually did this today with the help of this forum and am quite proud of myself.  I do well with this aspect of caregiving with children, so I just have to tap into that understanding.

What I'm working on right now is finding out what I like.  That is the trick for me, as my life has always revolved around trying to make my spouse happy (38 years worth in total).  My early years were spent trying to make my birth-mother happy.. so it is really all that I know.

While I'm trying to figure that out... it is exceptionally difficult because of life circumstances.  I work full time (1.5 jobs right now as I'm covering someone who is on a 10 week leave of absence) while trying to raise two 2.5 year olds who are both special needs (Autism).  Turns out what I like is sleep, LOL. 

So what my therapist has me doing is spending a few minutes twice a day trying to meditate on my emotions and uncover what I'm feeling.  Not easy, as my emotions tend to be absorbed from my spouse as well.

Hi again Ventak. Thank you for sharing this. I have not started yet, but you and other people from the forum are giving me the strength to attend one of the next meetings.

I am really sorry to know that you have so many things to deal with. I don't have children, neither was I married to my BPD ex. Self-reflection and awareness need time, like a good sleep I guess! And you said, the mind keeps wandering...and going back to the person we used to take care of.

Good luck with your healing process, kids and discovery journey. Thank you once again for bringing up CODA

[red leaf]

How did I work on the integrity aspect?  In my case, I went to see a coach who did what all coaches are paid to do: She pushed me until I had enough momentum that I kept moving forward.  She would challenge me on my b-s or neg-self talk - she just kept repeating herself over and over until it stuck. There's no way around it.  If a musician wants move from playing notes to making music, the playing of the notes just needs to become second nature - scales, scales, scales.  

Coaching is not therapy. Coaching is about learning to put skills into action. Therapy is about healing, about self-awareness in the sense of identifying patterns.  Therapy is about learning to trust in yourself, coaching about trusting your coach so you can trust in your skills.  I know that's a bit of an over simplification, but in a nutshell, there it is. I spent about 4k on my coach - her sessions were 90 minutes and she would send me the audio recording of our talks - those I listened to over and over and over and over and over ...

Has taken my about two years in total to get to where I am today - but to be honest, in all my life I have never been this on top of my game as I am today. Best 4 k I ever spent.

So here's a question - the integrity piece - what does your intuition tell you is the missing piece to kick it into gear?

Rev

Hi Rev. Thanks for your reply. I must admit I am not really familiar with 'coaching', but I am really glad it is working for you. I feel like I still need the introspection and self-awareness necessary to take the next step. I must learn how to be more patient and keep trying...that's for sure.

I guess what's preventing me from taking action is the inner voice telling me that I am meant to fail, no matter what (an inconvenient but all-too-comfortable lesson I learnt many years ago, I guess...). The current health emergency is not helping at all, too. I keep making plans, which simply do not happen. However, I do recognize a strong self-sabotaging impulse. There, I think self-sabotage is what is holding me back the most...

[Goosey]

The only "need" I know that I have, is affection.  Literally if I got 4 good hugs a day I think I would be satisfied. 

    Amen on that post excerpt from above posts.

[Rev]

Hi Rev. Thanks for your reply. I must admit I am not really familiar with 'coaching', but I am really glad it is working for you. I feel like I still need the introspection and self-awareness necessary to take the next step. I must learn how to be more patient and keep trying...that's for sure.

I guess what's preventing me from taking action is the inner voice telling me that I am meant to fail, no matter what (an inconvenient but all-too-comfortable lesson I learnt many years ago, I guess...). The current health emergency is not helping at all, too. I keep making plans, which simply do not happen. However, I do recognize a strong self-sabotaging impulse. There, I think self-sabotage is what is holding me back the most...

Hi Red ...

Well one thing really appears to be true - you have an excellent capacity for self reflection and it's just a wonderful thing to have, even if at times self-awareness doesn't so good in the moment. Certainly there were, and still are, moments of self awareness that trigger shame spirals for me.  Which is a good segue into coaching - at least as I define in.  Coaching is a little more directive, builds almost exclusively on your strengths and is really about developing habits that serve your goals. Sometimes, at least in my case anyway, these new habits are counterintuitive.

For me, I have found that it takes both - self awareness to understand why I am resisting doing the thing that I know is best for me - coaching to give me that first push in the right direction so to speak. A good therapist can do both.  

AND ... boy do I hear you on the self sabotage thing. I think that self-sabotage lies at the root of codependent behavior. In one of my therapies, my therapist identified that out of my own childhood that I had learned that the only way for me to "succeed" was to "fail".  And the roots run deep in weird places. It wasn't until after my last breakup that I realized I was in relationships that mirrored the relationship I had with my father - which was not really healthy by any stretch. Not emotionally anyways. I never really clued into it, I guess because I am an alpha - hetero male so I was always looking for women who mirrored the things my mother valued, with whom I share a very healthy, honest relationship.  It was a real blind spot for me. My father would just always demand "more" - all. the. time.

THANK YOU for sharing your story here. Sending you all kinds of positive energy. That famous poem from Marianne Williamson just came to mind. If you don't know it, Google it. One way or another, I'd be curious to know your thoughts - one way or another.

Have a great day, wherever that leads you.

Rev

[red leaf]

That famous poem from Marianne Williamson just came to mind. If you don't know it, Google it. One way or another, I'd be curious to know your thoughts - one way or another.

Hi Rev. I am sorry I didn't reply: a lot happened in the past weeks. Do you have a specific poem in mind? I'll go and check her out. Thanks

[Rev]

Hi Rev. I am sorry I didn't reply: a lot happened in the past weeks. Do you have a specific poem in mind? I'll go and check her out. Thanks

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