The "Perfect" BPD Family

[mitten]

Thank you all for chiming in on this!  It's clear the member vote here is for not having more than the 2 kids I have, which also aligns with the worldwide 2.4 child view of the "perfect" family. 

My uBPDw came from a large family (6 kids) and my family had 4 kids.  So that may be why 2 kids to us doesn't seem like we're "complete".   Additionally, we live in an area where the average family size is 3 children.  I think if there wasn't the BPD component I would absolutely want 3 children, without hesitation.  I've always said that we'll take it one kid at a time before deciding "how many kids we want".  Rationally, I know that it's less risky to have 2.  Also less expensive (and we all know BPD spouses are not good with finances so any cost reduction helps).  I will be sad if we decide we are done having kids (I envision going to National Parks and having kids pile out of the minivan excitedly like I did growing up with my 3 other siblings), but there will also be closure and some relief that we can plan for our 2 boys' futures. 

So the other day I tested the 2 child thing... in front of my wife's sister... which was absolutely the wrong thing to do.  I alluded to being content with "our 2 boys" and it didn't go unnoticed by my uBPDw.  When we got home she said, so "you're content with only 2, guess I'll find another baby daddy".  I know she was joking about the baby daddy part, but she's clearly upset that I hinted at being done. 

So my question- if I decide it's best to be done having children, how on earth do I communicate this to my wife, when it's clear she wants 3?  Please also note that we have 2 boys now, so I'll definitely be blamed for not giving her a daughter...

   

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[mitten]

So my question- if I decide it's best to be done having children, how on earth do I communicate this to my wife, when it's clear she wants 3?  Please also note that we have 2 boys now, so I'll definitely be blamed for not giving her a daughter...

[bugwaterguy]

Here are my thoughts - take them or leave them

Wait for her to take the lead.

When she does say things, radically validate all her feelings.  Ask deep questions.  But don't agree to have more kids.

Talk to a counselor, by yourself, who is an expert in BPD to help you figure this out.

[thankful person]

So my question- if I decide it's best to be done having children, how on earth do I communicate this to my wife, when it's clear she wants 3?  Please also note that we have 2 boys now, so I'll definitely be blamed for not giving her a daughter...

I can’t answer this, but I’d like to know the answer. As I explained before, we have two young children plus two frozen embryos from one ivf cycle. My wife has always said she wants “a large family”. We both want to give the remaining two embryos that we created a chance at life. Which means we could have 4 children or potentially more of either of them becomes twins…
But I know my wife wants to do another ivf cycle, whether we have 2, 4, or 6 children from this cycle. I don’t want to do another cycle of ivf and it’s also very expensive. I am happy with the two girls we have, even though I hope the other two also get to join our family. I don’t know how to tell her this though. I think it will be particularly hard if the frozen ones don’t make it, because two children is clearly not enough for her. I know she would also talk about other means and also about leaving me, were I to tell her this. Whatever happens I’m glad our children have each other for support.

[mitten]

Talk to a counselor, by yourself, who is an expert in BPD to help you figure this out.

Unfortunately where I live it's impossible to find a counselor that specializes in BPD that is accepting new patients.  The mental health community is overwhelmed. 

[Dancingbear]

Everyone's situation and relationship is different and things may have been very different if I'd known about this a long time ago so I'd say you're already in a stronger position just knowing about bpd and being able to learn and use the tools.

I think it can get very tricky when kids get older - as they start developing their own ideas, deciding they don't want to do what you say, their emotions and needs become more complex to navigate. If you have a fiercely independent kid who's determined to do things their own way that could be very tricky for your pwbpd to handle.

[Cat Familiar]

Unfortunately where I live it's impossible to find a counselor that specializes in BPD that is accepting new patients.  The mental health community is overwhelmed. 

Try online counseling such as Talkspace or Betterhelp. You can ask for someone who is knowledgeable about BPD.

[Cat Familiar]

I think it can get very tricky when kids get older - as they start developing their own ideas, deciding they don't want to do what you say, their emotions and needs become more complex to navigate. If you have a fiercely independent kid who's determined to do things their own way that could be very tricky for your pwbpd to handle.

I wasn’t a “fiercely independent kid” but as I started making decisions for myself as an adolescent and teen, the fireworks began with my BPD mother. 

As long as I was her mini-me, things were great. Think *honeymoon phase* but for kid and mom. The moment I began to be *ME* and not a smaller version of her, that’s when the trouble began. And my mother was way more functional and much less impacted by her mental illness than those in many of the stories I read here.

[mitten]

So basically I'm hearing that it gets harder, not easier for a parent with BPD as the child gets older and more independent.  I think for "normal" parents the infant/toddler stage is supposed to be the hardest.  My mom was just telling me recently that I'm in the hardest stage and when the kids get in elementary school it's a sweet period where they can dress themselves, etc.  But with BPD everything is counter intuitive of course... 

[Cat Familiar]

Yep. Exactly!

[Cat Familiar]

Here’s a sobering article Couscous posted on a thread on the Parent/Sibling Board on how BPD parents can damage their children.  It’s harsh, but altogether true for those of us who’ve grown up in families like that.  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/conquer-fear-flying/201312/borderline-personality-disorder-and-anticipatory-anxiety

[GaGrl]

I wasn’t a “fiercely independent kid” but as I started making decisions for myself as an adolescent and teen, the fireworks began with my BPD mother. 

As long as I was her mini-me, things were great. Think *honeymoon phase* but for kid and mom. The moment I began to be *ME* and not a smaller version of her, that’s when the trouble began. And my mother was way more functional and much less impacted by her mental illness than those in many of the stories I read here.

This was very much my experience also. My mother had several BPD traits, plus she was heavily influenced by having a uBPD/NPD stepmother who married my enabling grandfather when mom was 6 years old ( her own mother had died in the second pregnancy). My mom and sister and I coped well when Sis and I were small, although Mom was overprotective. But wow! When we hit the teens, the three of us dealt with a constant push- pull between Mom's control, her silent treatments, and our need for independence.

[mitten]

Here’s a sobering article Couscous posted on a thread on the Parent/Sibling Board on how BPD parents can damage their children.  It’s harsh, but altogether true for those of us who’ve grown up in families like that.  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/conquer-fear-flying/201312/borderline-personality-disorder-and-anticipatory-anxiety

Thanks for sharing, Cat.  I think if I didn't already have two children with my uBPDw I'd really have a tough time with this one... knowing that I want to have a family but all the risks associated.  I guess now that that ship has sailed and I have 2 children, I'm wondering if 3 makes it worse?  Sure, there is more risk to 3, financial, health, genetics of BPD.  But is there any benefit to 3 from the children's perspective?  More buffering from their BPD mother, siblings for support, distraction from mom, etc.   

[Couscous]

Is your wife environmentally conscious? Having one less child is the most impactful thing you can do to reduce your carbon footprint.

If she isn’t concerned about the environment, then you will need to be OK with being seen as the bad guy, not get defensive, and prepared to give her lots and lots of validation for her feelings of disappointment.

I think that the more kids you have with a BPD spouse the more guilt you are going to have to deal with in the future when the impact of your wife’s mothering begins to reveal itself. Even if your kids do not develop BPD themselves, chances are insanely high that they will be attracted to BPD romantic partners. I know that my non-BPD father is rueing the day that he met my mother because of how it has caused his children, and now grandchildren, so much suffering.

But I imagine that unless you are willing to take a stand, which will entail taking responsibility for contraception, your wife will find a way to have that third child, come hell or high water. (And just as a reminder, you have a 50% chance of having another boy.)

[khibomsis]

hey mitten, we are 3 siblings. I am convinced my older brother is uNBPD. My parents are both dead and the trauma only really came to an end with uNBPD mom's death. I mean it got better the more I kept trying to set boundaries, but there was also the constant grief of the mother I never had, if you see what I mean.

I can just about make my peace with my awful childhood and youth (10 years' therapy and counting - sanity comes expensive!  ) . It was exactly as Gagrl and Cat described, the minute I discovered a will of my own at 16, that was it, mom and I fought all the time except when I lived elsewhere.

The problem now is that I and my other sibling have to find ways to take care of bro wBPD, without his consent because as far as he is concerned he is OK. But he has no one else and we don't really feel we can leave him to his own devices. And to keep an eye out for his kids, one of whom was already diagnosed but doing fine. Another kid is a drug addict so I don't really know if it masks BPD or not. The point I want to make is that these cares are for life. Parents you can see an end to, it might be sad, but it is nature. Siblings not.  

From the point of view of your children I would suspect it is important to direct what resources you have to creating stability, structure, boundaries, etc. Maximize their chances of being stable. So that they can do something else with their life than pay therapy fees and take care of others. My 5 cents