How do BPD partners reflect on us?

[T0M]

Hello all,

I often get confronted with the fact that my GF with BPD has a completely different version of arguments or situations we had than that they actually happened.

For example, we keep fighting over the fact that I'm going to basketball practice on Thursday evenings. According to her Thursdays are the most important evenings in the week to spend time together. I was tired of having this discussion over and over again. So I told her plain and simple, that I needed some physical exercise to release stress , and that basketbal practice is on Thursday, so I can not change that.

I thought that was that. But now she is saying, that I told her that I did not want to be around her on Thursdays, and that I needed to leave because I was fed up with her after a week of time with her. That it is now a Thursday, but soon another day will follow and so on, and that I will leave her, but I don't know it yet myself...

But what I'm really wondering, is how she is bringing this story to others. If she tells her version of the story I'm indeed a d**k of not wanting to be around her.
And this is not the only time she had a completely deviating story on what was really going on. The number of times I said to her: 'That is not what I said.' 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Good Intentions]

hey T0M - thanks for sharing.

your experience is one that I relate to easily, and I've often been overcome with anxiety/frustration/helplessness upon having a similar realization - how can we reconcile when my pwBPD's perception/experience is so radically different from my reality.

just like you I play weekday basketball (Monday nights!) and just like your GF, mine has found a way over the last 3 years to distort me wanting to prioritize my physical health (which boosts my individual mental heath & therefore makes me a happier, healthier partner to her) and negatively interpret that as me choosing to neglect her or our relationship...and I know how maddening that misinterpretation by her can be.

It's hard enough to not get frustrated when you're having to clarify / correct the record after she misinterprets/distorts what you said, but then you'll likely have to deal with her getting frustrated/annoyed/angry at you trying to JADE ("justify/argue/defend/explain") but you wouldn't even be in that position but for her negative interpretation.

it's a really tough cycle, and it will take a lot of intention on her part to start receiving your words correctly and not interpreting every single thing in this intensely personal way. but the only thing you can control is your calmness when she's reverting to this very primitive, child-like logic of "you wanting to do anything that isn't spending time with me isn't what I want / what I think will make me feel loved and therefore you don't love me or want to spend time with me". in those moments, you have to resist the urge to get frustrated by the illogical & irrational, otherwise it'll consume you

[FirstSteps]

it's a really tough cycle, and it will take a lot of intention on her part to start receiving your words correctly and not interpreting every single thing in this intensely personal way.

I face similar situations though it gets complicated with us because I have stopped doing most everything.  Then she gets mad that I DON"T do things.  Though when I do, it's always ok for like 2-3 times and then falls apart. 

I'm working on fixing my end of this - I clearly need to get out more.

But my question is how do you maintain intimacy with someone that you have to distance from so greatly?  I've been working hard on not taking things personally, not JADEing, setting good yet compassionate boundaries and so on.  And I don't find myself feeling much better about the relationship.  How do you take the abuse and then just move on like it didn't happen?  I have struggled with this for years.  It feels like I need to parent my wife, and while I absolutely love being a parent, I have a huge resistance to this cycle with my partner. 

[Good Intentions]

@FirstSteps

Three things that you said jumped out to me:
1) the intimacy vs. emotional distance dichotomy - I don't have an answer for you but I'd love to know if anyone does have a way to reconcile those 2 needs that seem to me to be opposing.
2) when you said that you don't feel better about the relationship despite the fact that you've done what you can to modify your behavior (not JADEing as much, better maintenance of boundaries). I can relate and have always found it difficult to accept that the relationship can't work on my effort alone, but that helpless feeling is a clear indication of exactly that - the dynamic won't meaningfully improve unless your wife also fully commits to self-improvement. After all, the illness is hers, not yours.
3) in my relationship, I was the one that first identified BPD as the culprit for my partner's emotional instability. It has since been professionally diagnosed (pretty obviously meets 7 of the 9 criteria) and she committed to a DBT-based program that will hopefully help her learn critical relationship skills like empathy, compassion, forgiveness, humility, etc. which pwBPD typically struggle with (especially when they've become emotionally dysregulated). I've come to realize that at this point in time, and for the immediate future, choosing to be in a relationship with my partner means that I must look to external sources for validation & empathy. I've been a participant in these message boards for over a month now, and a consistently recurring theme across numerous discussions is the critically important need for a support system for the non-pwBPD.

Family & friends are great, but the community of individuals present here (and other sites) with similar experiences to yours can also be a valuable resource & source of affirmation...otherwise, you truly can fall victim to the psychological damage that someone with BPD is perhaps even unknowingly capable of and start believing in the false reality that this complex illness presents to pwBPD

[T0M]

hey T0M - thanks for sharing.

just like you I play weekday basketball (Monday nights!) and just like your GF, mine has found a way over the last 3 years to distort me wanting to prioritize my physical health (which boosts my individual mental heath & therefore makes me a happier, healthier partner to her) and negatively interpret that as me choosing to neglect her or our relationship...and I know how maddening that misinterpretation by her can be.

For 3 years? My god. I'm in it for 6 months and I'm really fed up with it. I found myself saying to her: " Come sit in front of me. Look me in the eyes." She has great difficulty with that when she is in a down. And I told her while over articulating: 'Me needing sports has nothing do to with our relationship."

You wont believe what followed. She said: 'I always knew I'm just a nice addition in your life. You don't need me in it. I might as well be replaced by someone else.' She stood up and walked away. Leaving me completely baffled.

Not sure I can do this for 3 years and counting probably?

[Good Intentions]

My initial response might have been a bit misleading...I didn't mean that we've gone back & forth on this particular issue (the normal importance of me prioritizing my physical health) for 3+ years, but that type of miscommunication/distortion has been commonplace.

My advice to you would be to educate yourself as much as possible.
If I had known what BPD was sooner in our relationship, I'm certain that our relationship would be stronger today (assuming she truly has the desire to manage/conquer her illness).

PS - my GF also struggles to maintain eye contact during conversation when her feelings are hurt. At least once she told me that not making eye contact somehow helps her focus on what I'm actually saying, but I also know that she frequently shuts down/detaches/disengages as a natural defense mechanism (byproduct of BPD). She doesn't have the emotional capacity for anything other than her unique individual experience, so me doing anything but offering empathy is effectively a no-go...

Hope that helps. Feel free to message me or reply here.

[T0M]

 She doesn't have the emotional capacity for anything other than her unique individual experience

Hope that helps. Feel free to message me or reply here.

You say something very important there. I did not think of it that way. But that is actually what she always does. Comparing what I'm saying, or doing with previous experiences. The self-pity: 'You will also leave me, nobody needs me, I knew it all along, you don't want somebody like me in your life, nobody does...'

Even if I say I love her, she says that others before me said exactly the same, and they left her, so i will leave her too.

[TheBatHammer]

You say something very important there. I did not think of it that way. But that is actually what she always does. Comparing what I'm saying, or doing with previous experiences. The self-pity: 'You will also leave me, nobody needs me, I knew it all along, you don't want somebody like me in your life, nobody does...'

Even if I say I love her, she says that others before me said exactly the same, and they left her, so i will leave her too.

This is likely projection. If she rationalizes that others have left her and that you're going to leave her, she doesn't have to reckon with it being her pushing you and others away and do any self reflection.

[Biggus]

You wont believe what followed. She said: 'I always knew I'm just a nice addition in your life. You don't need me in it. I might as well be replaced by someone else.' She stood up and walked away. Leaving me completely baffled.

The fact that she said "I always knew I'm just a nice addition in your life" to you, tells probably more about her expectations than yours. What I'm finding hard to believe she spoke so directly on the subject, letting her fear to surface.

My ex would do her best to act kind, so she would hide her fears at first. I love to travel, also need to travel for my project, which hasn't been possible in ages due to covid. Really wanted to travel together with her and thought the trip would be good for her too. My plan was she would join initially, we'd have a great time and then she would travel back home to continue her work, and I would focus on my work for about a month or so. She okayed it at first, but as she wasn't interested to make any plans together, I asked about it from her later and then heard that it's just a big plan to avoid her and leave her alone.

But it's she who left me feeling alone. She had many hobbies and interests she wanted to share with me, and I did, but to be honest she didn't really care any of mine.

[T0M]

The fact that she said "I always knew I'm just a nice addition in your life" to you, tells probably more about her expectations than yours. What I'm finding hard to believe she spoke so directly on the subject, letting her fear to surface.

Your 'ex', so that means you found the strength to leave her? But that is not the topic of this discussion.

My GF often rolls herself in this self-pity. saying:  'I'm not good enough, you can get better, I'm a bad person, nobody likes me' and so on and on. I once told her that it was going to be a self fulfilling prophecy. That If you say often enough that you are not worthy, people start treating you like that. By the way, that was before I knew she had BPD. Ever since she repeats it on a regular basis now. Saying that I told myself that me leaving is a self fulfilling prophecy.

What you mention on hiding there fears at first is something I completely understand. I like music festivals, and so does she, at least that what she told me. So I booked us tickets. But the closer we got to the festival, the more excuses she was coming up with why it would be a bad idea. At the day itself she was crying in the shower saying she didn't belong on that festival, saying she wanted to go home (we do not live together). She was also asking millions of questions beforehand. Who what when why... It was driving me crazy.

[Good Intentions]

@T0M

I don't mean to derail the conversation but your last anecdote about the music festival reminded me of something I've learned on this site about pwBPD.

If the ultimate "need" of the pwBPD is to feel loved - and I use "feel" intentionally rather than "be" loved because a pwBPD can be fully accepted & loved but still suffer from their illness which preys on the feeling of being unloved or unwanted or neglected or abandoned - then one of the skills that a pwBPD subconsciously develops is a sort of "mirroring" of the likes & interests of their FP. Because if they present themselves as someone with a high degree of objective compatibility to their partner, then (in their mind) they'll earn/receive the love that they so desperately need. But eventually, a pwBPD will resent the NON for the disdain they feel in going along with something they don't truly want to do but that they felt compelled to do in an effort to "win" love & affection & attention from their partner/FP.

So in your situation @T0M what I'm implying is that your GF may honestly hate music festivals. I'm not saying that as fact - I don't know you or your GF and she may actually truly enjoy them.

My interpretation of what you described - as the event approached her initial interest turned into excuses which morphed into tears - is that her emotional dysregulation/internal confusion & chaos could have stemmed from not wanting to go to the music festival, but she knew how much you do love music festivals and the fear of rejection & abandonment that defines BPD the most drove her to present a façade that isn't her true self. And like anyone on this planet, there's something unsettling/discomforting about pretending to like something for the enjoyment of another person. And for a pwBPD those types of feelings are typically expressed more extremely.

Does that make any sense to anyone?

[FirstSteps]

@FirstSteps

Three things that you said jumped out to me:
1) the intimacy vs. emotional distance dichotomy - I don't have an answer for you but I'd love to know if anyone does have a way to reconcile those 2 needs that seem to me to be opposing.

I've come to realize that at this point in time, and for the immediate future, choosing to be in a relationship with my partner means that I must look to external sources for validation & empathy. I've been a participant in these message boards for over a month now, and a consistently recurring theme across numerous discussions is the critically important need for a support system for the non-pwBPD.

Good Intentions - thanks.  You're right, of course.  But I clearly have trouble with the dichotomy.  Or at least I do now.  I think pre-pandemic, I was able to recharge enough during calm periods to take the splitting.  But it's different now, and these undercurrents are now at the surface.  I think I'm just exhausted by looking externally - plus the fact that I've isolated myself with her.

Because she talks a good therapy game - and seemingly makes progress - it really, really does seem like she's fully committed to the process (though she identifies as CPTSD with abandonment issues).  But then it goes off the rails. I honestly cannot tell if I'm caught in just another loop, or if this is a significant change. 

On the music festival point, I think that it's quite possible she hates them.  My wife has done this kind of thing before.  When it's what she wants to do - travel - plans get made and we travel no matter what.  When it's something for the rest of the family, plans get made but then they often fall by the wayside, or the process turns torturous.

[Good Intentions]

I think I'm just exhausted by looking externally - plus the fact that I've isolated myself with her.

Because she talks a good therapy game - and seemingly makes progress - it really, really does seem like she's fully committed to the process (though she identifies as CPTSD with abandonment issues).  But then it goes off the rails. I honestly cannot tell if I'm caught in just another loop, or if this is a significant change. 

Your comments ring scarily true for me. At some point, especially if you believe that the pwBPD in your life has "committed" to the process of change / seemingly makes progress, then you shouldn't have to be looking externally for the emotional support system that an intimate relationship should be. And I know I'm preaching to the choir, but if you're still finding it exhausting to try to squeeze some empathy or a desire to understand YOU out of your pwBPD, then maybe the dynamic in your relationship isn't as different as your pwBPD might want you to believe.

In my relationship, I know that one of my primary concerns with my pwBPD is not being able to fully trust her commitment to self-improvement. As I mentioned in previous posts, she's just now starting a DBT-based workshop that will hopefully be a difference maker, but she could just as easily learn a couple small things from that and then revert to thinking that she's got it all figured out and that I'm the one with the issues (as I've heard so often before). This idea of "going through the motions" to give the appearance to the external world of taking her mental health issues seriously is troublesome for me.

[SinisterComplex]

Your comments ring scarily true for me. At some point, especially if you believe that the pwBPD in your life has "committed" to the process of change / seemingly makes progress, then you shouldn't have to be looking externally for the emotional support system that an intimate relationship should be. And I know I'm preaching to the choir, but if you're still finding it exhausting to try to squeeze some empathy or a desire to understand YOU out of your pwBPD, then maybe the dynamic in your relationship isn't as different as your pwBPD might want you to believe.

In my relationship, I know that one of my primary concerns with my pwBPD is not being able to fully trust her commitment to self-improvement. As I mentioned in previous posts, she's just now starting a DBT-based workshop that will hopefully be a difference maker, but she could just as easily learn a couple small things from that and then revert to thinking that she's got it all figured out and that I'm the one with the issues (as I've heard so often before). This idea of "going through the motions" to give the appearance to the external world of taking her mental health issues seriously is troublesome for me.

Those with mental health disorders will go to great lengths to keep up appearances and keep the mask intact. The unfortunate reality is that unless the person is truly dedicated and in therapy regularly the odds of them going through the motions "to give the appearance to the external world of taking his or her mental health issues seriously" will be the norm. It is the people pleaser aspect.

Perhaps one of the harder things for many neurotypicals to understand is that those with BPD and other mental health disorders are wired differently physically...truly and not just a figure of speech.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Good Intentions]

SC -

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, and it's validating (but also scary) to hear and believe what you said - that it's hard to wrap my head around the idea that my partner doesn't just have a personality disorder, but an illness that involves a brain that developed differently during the most crucial period in our lives.

My GF is only 27 years old, so relative to many personal stories she has become BPD-conscious sooner than a lot of people who suffer from it. But it also means that for 2 decades she has been living within a certain mental construct.

And not only does it take a tremendous amount of courage by a pwBPD to even consider questioning the nature of their reality, but it requires even more determination & effort to actually rewire those neural pathways in a meaningful way.

[SinisterComplex]

SC -

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, and it's validating (but also scary) to hear and believe what you said - that it's hard to wrap my head around the idea that my partner doesn't just have a personality disorder, but an illness that involves a brain that developed differently during the most crucial period in our lives.

My GF is only 27 years old, so relative to many personal stories she has become BPD-conscious sooner than a lot of people who suffer from it. But it also means that for 2 decades she has been living within a certain mental construct.

And not only does it take a tremendous amount of courage by a pwBPD to even consider questioning the nature of their reality, but it requires even more determination & effort to actually rewire those neural pathways in a meaningful way.

This is why we preach hate the monster not the person for they are not one in the same. That is the hard part...separating the two.

So something I am going to throw in here if you are curious or want to educate yourself further.

"Dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT) was found to attenuate amygdala hyperactivity at baseline, which correlated with changes in a measure of emotion regulation and increased use of emotion regulation strategies.5 Taken together, these findings highlight that dysfunctional circuits involving hyperactive limbic regions and hypoactive prefrontal modulation-most pronounced in the dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex-represent the anatomical corollaries to BPD." (Goodman M, Carpenter D, Tang CY, et al. Dialectical behavior therapy alters emotion regulation and amygdala activity in patients with borderline personality disorder. J Psychiatr Res. 2014;57:108-116)

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Good Intentions]

SC -

My GF has attended 3 of the scheduled 24 sessions of a DBT workshop so hopefully that will start teaching her ways to self-sooth and regulate her emotions instead of reacting to the hyperactive regions of her brain that are more primitive in nature (amygdala = "fight or flight" response).

I'm not sure what that means for my relationship with her, especially since I haven't heard from her for 2 weeks (after she broke up with me because of my "defensiveness"), but it is good affirmation to hear that DBT is the best bet for working towards a healthier version of herself. Even if she decides that I'm not someone she wants to try to build a life with, at least I've encouraged her to seek the correct treatment.