Do not want divorce, but have quit dealing with the issues...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I'm not sure where to go from here.  I don't want divorce (religious reasons).  However, I know I have quit actively dealing with the episodes and issues.  It's not that I don't want her or us to be better, it's that I don't see progression happening.  She believes I am the only one that can fix things but as we all know I am not capable of fixing the internal issues she has going on.  She has noticed that I'm getting worse about just stopping when things get bad.  She has brought it up.  Can this cycle? Speaking of my mindset.  Meaning will I come around to where I don't feel like just stopping every time an issue comes up?

[who_knows11]

I'm not sure where to go from here.  I don't want divorce (religious reasons).  However, I know I have quit actively dealing with the episodes and issues.  It's not that I don't want her or us to be better, it's that I don't see progression happening.  She believes I am the only one that can fix things but as we all know I am not capable of fixing the internal issues she has going on.  She has noticed that I'm getting worse about just stopping when things get bad.  She has brought it up.  Can this cycle? Speaking of my mindset.  Meaning will I come around to where I don't feel like just stopping every time an issue comes up?

[ForeverDad]

I too am a strong believer in marriage.  Yet despite all my efforts I had to face the problem.  At the time it all erupted, I had a preschooler.  I had a choice, either I gave up on a dysfunctional marriage (and divorce) or I would risk losing my child as my then-spouse threatened.

My entire community of friends and family knew what I was experiencing, or at least an inkling, and not one person criticized me for standing you for myself and my child.  Not one.  Yes it was a tough decision... but more so it was that she left me no other choice but to do something.

[alterK]

If you are posting on this board, you must be contemplating the possibility of divorce. I don't recall if I've read any of your previous posts. Are there kids involved? This would make a big difference. I'm assuming you have done all the standard things we partners of BPD'ers do to try to cope and make things better.

I myself am not a religious person, but I don't believe there is any religion that wants its followers to be unhappy. Sounds like you have some resentment building against your spouse, which I think is a totally normal thing when a person has tried for a long time to solve problems and has been frustrated. This isn't good for you, and you may eventually pay a price, not just in terms of mood, but in your physical health also.

[AnaisNin]

I really feel for you, and for all of us spouses on here. This is a very sad situation.  My marriage of 2 and a half years is coming to an end. I'm worn out. I absolutely didn't want a divorce. I love my husband. I kept thinking...someday he will get better, someday we will figure out effective communication. I kept telling myself I was superwoman- that I could just not be affected by the splitting, the mood swings and the hurt. 3 failed attempts at marriage therapy later, here we are. Honestly, what made me finally come to terms with a divorce is I sought out my own therapist. I have been realizing that it's ok for me to want things- i want a husband who will consistently be there for me, I want a life of happiness, I want a life with little to no drama. I want a solid stepfather to my young son. I don't think of it as "deserve" but more the life I really strive for. It's not an angry feeling when I think of what I want in life. I could no longer tolerate the splitting. My husband's cycle of splitting me started getting very frequent- like every few days so that I never knew if I was the "nice" wife or the "evil" wife from day to day. I also realized just how much my own health has suffered and my own self esteem has gone down. Turns out I'm not superwoman, I'm also a person with my own set of wants and desires and as much as I love my husband, I couldn't see a happy and healthy future like this. I am now grieving for the loss. And keeping my focus on my goal of living a happy life and getting healthier myself. not sure if this helps you, but I wish you the best. I know how hard this is.

[formflier]

The vibe I'm getting of "not getting involved" actually matches up with advice we often give here on BPDfamily.

I usually say it something like "Don't rescue them from life..."  So they do some whackanoodle thing that you KNOW is going to boomerang back on them.  Most of us are like (at least initially)...oh I care for this person so I will "help" them avoid the disaster I see.

And we "save them".

The "wiser" or "healthier" way is to let people (BPD or not) experience the logical and natural consequences of (fill in the blank on their behavior).

Then let the chips fall where they may.

And let them clean up the chips...or let them leave the chips on the floor.

Let them do them...and you do you.

Was there a particular incident that "pushed you over the edge" to a new way of "dealing with her?"

Best,

FF

[who_knows11]

I too am a strong believer in marriage.  Yet despite all my efforts I had to face the problem.  At the time it all erupted, I had a preschooler.  I had a choice, either I gave up on a dysfunctional marriage (and divorce) or I would risk losing my child as my then-spouse threatened.

My entire community of friends and family knew what I was experiencing, or at least an inkling, and not one person criticized me for standing you for myself and my child.  Not one.  Yes it was a tough decision... but more so it was that she left me no other choice but to do something.

She has threatened it many times.  I have come to grips with the fact that it is a possibility.  She tried the whole threatening to get the kids if she left but I've done my homework and I know that the court system pushes for equal custody if it is possible.  She works full time also so she doesn't have the be at home leverage that can lead to mom getting the kids.  My question becomes am I more capable of protecting them from dealing with the BPD if we don't split?

[who_knows11]

If you are posting on this board, you must be contemplating the possibility of divorce. I don't recall if I've read any of your previous posts. Are there kids involved? This would make a big difference. I'm assuming you have done all the standard things we partners of BPD'ers do to try to cope and make things better.

I myself am not a religious person, but I don't believe there is any religion that wants its followers to be unhappy. Sounds like you have some resentment building against your spouse, which I think is a totally normal thing when a person has tried for a long time to solve problems and has been frustrated. This isn't good for you, and you may eventually pay a price, not just in terms of mood, but in your physical health also.

There are two kids involved.  Two boys 4 and 1.  I'm trying to figure out how to cope with her.   My main reasons for posting here was to see if anyone else dealt with the feelings of not wanting to engage with their spouses episodes and then had those feelings go away at any point.  If the feeling remains with me, I don't how much help I can be to her.

I definitely had resentment and it caused issues.  I think I have let it all go and reached a point where it's more dealing with the facts that this is never going away.  Either that or I am just deceiving myself .  My main concern right now is protecting the boys from the effects of the BPD

[who_knows11]

I really feel for you, and for all of us spouses on here. This is a very sad situation.  My marriage of 2 and a half years is coming to an end. I'm worn out. I absolutely didn't want a divorce. I love my husband. I kept thinking...someday he will get better, someday we will figure out effective communication. I kept telling myself I was superwoman- that I could just not be affected by the splitting, the mood swings and the hurt. 3 failed attempts at marriage therapy later, here we are. Honestly, what made me finally come to terms with a divorce is I sought out my own therapist. I have been realizing that it's ok for me to want things- i want a husband who will consistently be there for me, I want a life of happiness, I want a life with little to no drama. I want a solid stepfather to my young son. I don't think of it as "deserve" but more the life I really strive for. It's not an angry feeling when I think of what I want in life. I could no longer tolerate the splitting. My husband's cycle of splitting me started getting very frequent- like every few days so that I never knew if I was the "nice" wife or the "evil" wife from day to day. I also realized just how much my own health has suffered and my own self esteem has gone down. Turns out I'm not superwoman, I'm also a person with my own set of wants and desires and as much as I love my husband, I couldn't see a happy and healthy future like this. I am now grieving for the loss. And keeping my focus on my goal of living a happy life and getting healthier myself. not sure if this helps you, but I wish you the best. I know how hard this is.

I understand the feelings you are talking about.  I have given up most of what I want for quite a while now.  That's ok because sacrifice is supposed to happen in a marriage and I understand that.  It's not that I'm unhappy with life because I will always be happy no matter what.  Life is too short to spend it being unhappy so I can make the best out of anything.  Real happiness comes after life I believe (I know that is a personal, spiritual belief).  However, I do feel that I have allowed myself not to be the best person I can be in many aspects because of my tip-toeing around her.  Like you stated, I never know if I'm the good husband or the bad husband each day.  My main concern right now is doing what is best for our two boys.

[who_knows11]

The vibe I'm getting of "not getting involved" actually matches up with advice we often give here on BPDfamily.

I usually say it something like "Don't rescue them from life..."  So they do some whackanoodle thing that you KNOW is going to boomerang back on them.  Most of us are like (at least initially)...oh I care for this person so I will "help" them avoid the disaster I see.

And we "save them".

The "wiser" or "healthier" way is to let people (BPD or not) experience the logical and natural consequences of (fill in the blank on their behavior).

Then let the chips fall where they may.

And let them clean up the chips...or let them leave the chips on the floor.

Let them do them...and you do you.

Was there a particular incident that "pushed you over the edge" to a new way of "dealing with her?"

Best,

FF

I've lost all respect for her personally.  There are things I know I can be better at (communication for one) but since I've lost all respect I'm having a hard time finding the desire to become a better communicator. 

Yes there was an incident that finished me off.  I wrote about it in the bettering board.  She finally became physically violent.  Attempted to "beat me up" although she is just physically not capable of doing.  At least with her two hands.  She remarked it was good she didn't have a weapon because if she did she would probably kill me.  I know it was entirely an emotional reaction and she didn't actually mean it but still.  If you can reach the point of saying that then I no longer have any respect for you

[Cat Familiar]

Your overarching goal is to protect your boys from the effects of your wife’s BPD. Some members have done that through divorcing and providing an emotionally healthy home 50% of the time. Other members have worked on the marriage to lower the emotional volatility. Your choice.

Her BPD is not going to disappear. If she pursued therapy for years with a steadfast desire to change for the better, she might be one in…say a million, who heals to the point where they can be an emotionally healthy adult. Otherwise, what you see now is who she is, though it may get somewhat better with age and less life stress.

You are burned out and resentful. Totally understandable. You have no incentive to become a better communicator.

Can you see how this leads to contradictory desires? You want the best for your boys. You don’t want to divorce. You don’t want to do what it takes to improve your marriage.

Time to make some decisions…

[formflier]

  I know it was entirely an emotional reaction and she didn't actually mean it but still.  

Hey...so I would ask you to consider that she did mean it...then.  Probably "believed" it with every fiber of her body.

Then her emotions changed and she likely can't imagine that she ever meant such a horrible thing.

It would appear I'm in the category of lowering volatility and sticking around.  Most of my "tools" were letting her be her and me be me...and of course finding a way to communicate that in the least inflammatory way possible.

So..lots of trial and error.  lots.

And as others have said, it will still be there.  Now when I experience a "full on" BPD whatever...it's actually much more shocking and alarming...because I'm not "used to it anymore".   Usually I can confidently move towards an attitude of "Well...this sucks...oh look, I have some tools at my disposal to take care of me during this...whatever.."

And just go on taking care of me...and leaving a door open for her to make healthy choices.

Last:  The "best" is if your pwBPD goes to therapy and is really looking to reflect and improve.  Yeah...FFw is NOT in that category.

But..she has been going to lots of classes and works with school psychologists on lots of "high conflict" cases there appears to be lots of learning on her part "through osmosis".

She will all the time talk about how useful this tool or that tool is...yet no hint that she really "needed" it...just that "it helped".

Go with pragmatism...whatever works.


Best,

FF

[who_knows11]

Your overarching goal is to protect your boys from the effects of your wife’s BPD. Some members have done that through divorcing and providing an emotionally healthy home 50% of the time. Other members have worked on the marriage to lower the emotional volatility. Your choice.

Her BPD is not going to disappear. If she pursued therapy for years with a steadfast desire to change for the better, she might be one in…say a million, who heals to the point where they can be an emotionally healthy adult. Otherwise, what you see now is who she is, though it may get somewhat better with age and less life stress.

You are burned out and resentful. Totally understandable. You have no incentive to become a better communicator.

Can you see how this leads to contradictory desires? You want the best for your boys. You don’t want to divorce. You don’t want to do what it takes to improve your marriage.

Time to make some decisions…

Oh I definitely feel the contradictory desires.  I know I could be a different, most likely better, person in all other aspects of my life if away from her influence.  However, there is no telling how the process would go so there is no way of knowing if it would be best for the kids or not.  I can sacrifice myself for them.  That is one things I am completely certain about.  The question is what does that mean for the situation?  Is my sacrifice what's best for them or is the change what would be best for them?  I know that no one has the answer for that, I'm just thinking out loud

[who_knows11]

Hey...so I would ask you to consider that she did mean it...then.  Probably "believed" it with every fiber of her body.

Then her emotions changed and she likely can't imagine that she ever meant such a horrible thing.

I know what you are saying.  I know she meant it when she said it because she was feeling it.  I also know that it isn't actually what she desires.  I also know that people have actually done it before even though they didn't desire it.  In that moment though they felt it so they did it.  And yes that is a little alarming.  For what it's worth, it happened while we were on a trip without the kids.  I don't worry about her doing something like that around them because she cares for them so much. 

She's undiagnosed and fully believes I am the cause of the problems she has so I'm doubt therapy and desire to reflect or change ever happens.  She doesn't hurt my self esteem or anything with what she says so I don't have to worry about that part of it either.  I'm reading the "eggshells" book currently and will be figuring out how to set my limits.  I have catered to her for far too long.  Been a yes man so to speak.  I'm just having to make the decision to live my life even if that means she leaves on her on.  We shall see

[Cat Familiar]

My point was that since you’re still in the relationship, why not improve your communication and see if that helps?

Even if you split up, you will still be coparenting the boys for many years. It would be in the best interests of your sons if their parents got along better.

[ForeverDad]

My question becomes am I more capable of protecting them from dealing with the BPD if we don't split? ... The question is what does that mean for the situation?  Is my sacrifice what's best for them or is the change what would be best for them?  I know that no one has the answer for that, I'm just thinking out loud.

Many of our members write that they originally "stayed for the kids", in effect, sacrificing themselves.  That may have worked in some cases but many others later post they wish they could go back in time and split sooner.

A couple things I add are these:  (1) You can never be with the kids 24/7/365 to protect them 100%.  You have to sleep, go to work, do errands, go shopping, take breaks, etc.  (2) What example are you setting for the children?  Do you want them to learn how to argue, appease, acquiesce and walk on eggshells? or to stand up for principles and healthy lifestyles?

A few decades ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action, as appropriate, will enable your lives or at least a part of your lives to be spent be in a calm, stable environment - your home, wherever that may be - away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

In short, you can choose to make the best of a lousy situation, whether you stay with demonstrated improvement, "stay for now" pending improvement or whether you go.  The reasonable best.

Your decisions of course will be affected by your spouse's actions and behaviors.  But it's always up to you to decide what boundaries you will set in your life, what you will do or not do, etc.

[who_knows11]

My point was that since you’re still in the relationship, why not improve your communication and see if that helps?

Even if you split up, you will still be coparenting the boys for many years. It would be in the best interests of your sons if their parents got along better.

Ahh yes I get you now.  Yes I am attempting to be better.  Just having to learn to do it as a means of setting my own boundaries and limits.  Basically it's fully self motivated at the moment

[who_knows11]

Many of our members write that they originally "stayed for the kids", in effect, sacrificing themselves.  That may have worked in some cases but many others later post they wish they could go back in time and split sooner.

A couple things I add are these:  (1) You can never be with the kids 24/7/365 to protect them 100%.  You have to sleep, go to work, do errands, go shopping, take breaks, etc.  (2) What example are you setting for the children?  Do you want them to learn how to argue, appease, acquiesce and walk on eggshells? or to stand up for principles and healthy lifestyles?

I like and try to take the two perspective of the two points you added.  In all aspects of life I think it's better to acknowledge, face, and learn about/from all the things that are present around us, especially the bad ones or the ones we don't agree with, than to run or shelter from them because they are uncomfortable.  I think it's much better to teach the boys about those things than to shelter them from it.  Of course there are some things that maybe you wait until a specific age to teach them about but the overall principle still applies

I feel like when I say protect them that overall I mean to help them learn and handle it as opposed to being lost in dealing with it

[ForeverDad]

You're already using a daycare or a sitter/nanny, right?  That will be a pattern that will help you if/when you divorce,  she can't claim the kids must be with her since already much of the children's lives are in caregivers' hands.

Even though the kids aren't in elementary school yet, and one is quite young, one goal you need is to seek as much school responsibility as possible.  Know the staff and teachers.

My lawyer, and hers too, insisted that me being the parent responsible for school didn't matter.  They were wrong.  My son was in kindergarten when we settled on the final decree.  Her school agreed to "open enrollment" with me for the final 2-3 months of the school year.  Ex kept having incidents with the school so 5-6 weeks before the school year ended, they gave me one day to register him in my school.  If I wasn't the parent responsible for school they couldn't have dumped us like a hot potato, they would have suffered silently dealing with her.

A side benefit was that since our kid stayed in my school system then I wouldn't have to follow her as she moved from place to place.

[who_knows11]

You're already using a daycare or a sitter/nanny, right?  That will be a pattern that will help you if/when you divorce,  she can't claim the kids must be with her since already much of the children's lives are in caregivers' hands.

Even though the kids aren't in elementary school yet, and one is quite young, one goal you need is to seek as much school responsibility as possible.  Know the staff and teachers.

My lawyer, and hers too, insisted that me being the parent responsible for school didn't matter.  They were wrong.  My son was in kindergarten when we settled on the final decree.  Her school agreed to "open enrollment" with me for the final 2-3 months of the school year.  Ex kept having incidents with the school so 5-6 weeks before the school year ended, they gave me one day to register him in my school.  If I wasn't the parent responsible for school they couldn't have dumped us like a hot potato, they would have suffered silently dealing with her.

A side benefit was that since our kid stayed in my school system then I wouldn't have to follow her as she moved from place to place.

Correct the oldest is in preK and the youngest with a sitter during the day.  We both work full time.  Being involved with the school is no problem because I'm a teacher.  Unless there were a special circumstance then they will be in school at the same place I teach.  I'd be the pick up and drop off parent as well as the first contact