June 26th

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello all.

Haven't posted on here in a while since there was some serious stuff that went down.

 I am choosing to go forward with divorce.

She had been escalating since the beginning of June.  I had been using the tools, the no JADE, validation, SET, not validating the invalid, disengaging by leaving the area, taking a walk, not being invalidating, but her statements to the effect that she was threatening suicide were escalating, threats to my physical safety were also escalating, it appears that she fixated on me as the sole source of any and all bad, negative, sad, painful things that have transpired in her life.  Plus, she stated the she was leaving, that she had found another man, been on dates, and, and, and.  It even got to a point where she was making statements that as a man, as her husband, I should have pushed the issue of forcing her to give me this persons name and so forth to do a internet search on them to protect her from people like that since no one has ever protected her ever in her life.  Turned out that she was catfished. ( This happened the night before)

I had been sleeping on the couch, with one eye open, and how long can a person do that? and once she came out of the bedroom, I was outside having a cup of coffee, texting a family member.  Me texting was what seemed to be the trigger for her rage.  At least this time.  Other times, who knows?  By this time, I had been yelled, screamed at, threatened with things like cutting my external genitalia off, that she would crush me, kill me, that she would send people after me.. I was so numb that I thought that taking the dog to the park for a walk would provide space and it would calm down.

I thought that calling the non-emergency number for EMS would be a good idea because I wanted to find out information on what could happen if I did call 911 in regards to her escalating threats of self deletion. ( I still hadn't come to the conclusion that I was done with it)  An officer met me at the park, had a nice conversation, but I didn't know that this call triggered a wellness check on wBPD.

That really set her off.  I was getting texts from her son that is staying in the house, then the phone calls from her that were getting more and more aggressive and violent.  And then I started getting notifications from the ring doorbell.

I called 911 because I was afraid of going back home because I had no clue on what could happen to me. I was convinced that she was going to seriously physically injure / kill me.

I arrived at the house along with the police seeing piles of my personal belongings in the front yard, and she came boiling out of the house, yelling, screaming, cursing, saying derogatory things about the neighbors, the police, me,    the police gave her direction to calm down, to stop screaming, and, well, she didn't. Even after many statements from the officers to calm down.  She actually went the other way and became even more aggressive, and starting saying things about how the cops are corrupt, that I lied to them, and even attempted to explain away her statements in front of the officers concerning her self deletion threats, and threats of severe physical injury directed to me.  That she had immediately said before in front of them!

She was arrested and went to jail. The charges are DV and disorderly conduct.  A order of protection was immediately put into place until she has her day in court for this incident.  About 3 weeks or so.  She cannot communicate with me in any way, she cannot come to the house, she cannot come to my work.  If she wants any items from the house she has to have a police escort to do it.  Or go through a neutral 3rd party.  Again, if she wants "her" things then, she's more than welcome to it.

After she was released, she came to the house with police escort to gather some of her things, clothes, etc.  She still was spouting off about how everything was my fault, I was the one that made her that way, still attempting to explain away her threats of suicide and physical harm / killing me threats.

She left, and then she immediately started making phone calls to her son.  She was attempting to re-establish control of me via a third party.  Demanding a certain amount of $$ to be in a certain bank account, which .. how is 300$ for a single stay in a hotel?  What?   

Prior to this blow up I had been facing the fear of contacting family / friends and had started contacting them and letting them know what was going on.

Monday the 27th, I went to court and put in a request for a protective order that would last for 1 year. The court granted it immediately.  If she fights it, there will be a court date on it.  But I have 2 years of text messages, witnesses who are willing to testify, ring videos, and audio recordings. Currently I have sole exclusive access to the house and the dog.  I know that she has friends that have firearms.  I really don't know what she is capable of.

After a few days of not being around her.  I have found that I'm in a much better space in my self.  I'm not jumping as much when I receive a text notification. Or a phone call.

Living with the fear that she would self delete on one side, the fear of physical violence on the other, and then in the middle all the behaviors that are not good.. the alienation, isolation, rages, triggering, shame, belittlement, to name a very few as an example ... I can't, I cannot do it any longer.  I cannot continue living in a situation where to keep the peace, I have to be like a organic robot that can read minds. Her mind specifically.

Even then, I don't think that would work.

Yes, I had been groomed for many years into a person that .. well .. wasn't me.  And even then she would get triggered, have a rage outburst, because according to her, I have so many filters to get things through that "your not real"  from a person that stated that if you don't go to sleep facing them, you don't want them.  You don't love them, that not doing an action exactly how she lectured me on, means that you don't care, ... that a amazon shopping addiction was perfectly fine but asking her to __________________ means that I am a controlling SOB.  And that immediately after getting raged at, shamed, belittled, insulted, I should be able to go into horny mode and have sex with her.

Somehow or another, I'm an evil genius that completely destroyed her life.

I have retained a lawyer for the process of divorce.  He appears to be PD aware and is part of a larger office that if needed could be called upon for more of a nuanced approach.  I'm a reasonable person.  But the expectations of the court may appear to her that they are not reasonable.  It appears at this time that the courts have an expectation that people are supposed to be as self supporting as possible.  She probably will not like that.  Since to her that is unreasonable since she does have a physical issue with 1 leg.  She does have medical limitations but she has used that as a means to not support herself or to contribute to the marital financials. However, the physical limitations didn't stop her from being / doing mermaiding.  It's a LARP (Live Action Roll Play)  in many ways.  I'm willing to pay a reasonable amount of spousal support, and I want to stay in the house for at least two years, until I finish my degree, and then the house will be sold, and she can receive her fair and equitable portion of the proceeds after all liabilities are satisfied. 

All I can suggest to those who are in a relationship is to be very very aware and maintain a healthy self interest.  Do not allow negative behaviors to go unchallenged, do not allow them to isolate you. 

Peace.

[StartingHealing]

Hello all.

Haven't posted on here in a while since there was some serious stuff that went down.

 I am choosing to go forward with divorce.

She had been escalating since the beginning of June.  I had been using the tools, the no JADE, validation, SET, not validating the invalid, disengaging by leaving the area, taking a walk, not being invalidating, but her statements to the effect that she was threatening suicide were escalating, threats to my physical safety were also escalating, it appears that she fixated on me as the sole source of any and all bad, negative, sad, painful things that have transpired in her life.  Plus, she stated the she was leaving, that she had found another man, been on dates, and, and, and.  It even got to a point where she was making statements that as a man, as her husband, I should have pushed the issue of forcing her to give me this persons name and so forth to do a internet search on them to protect her from people like that since no one has ever protected her ever in her life.  Turned out that she was catfished. ( This happened the night before)

I had been sleeping on the couch, with one eye open, and how long can a person do that? and once she came out of the bedroom, I was outside having a cup of coffee, texting a family member.  Me texting was what seemed to be the trigger for her rage.  At least this time.  Other times, who knows?  By this time, I had been yelled, screamed at, threatened with things like cutting my external genitalia off, that she would crush me, kill me, that she would send people after me.. I was so numb that I thought that taking the dog to the park for a walk would provide space and it would calm down.

I thought that calling the non-emergency number for EMS would be a good idea because I wanted to find out information on what could happen if I did call 911 in regards to her escalating threats of self deletion. ( I still hadn't come to the conclusion that I was done with it)  An officer met me at the park, had a nice conversation, but I didn't know that this call triggered a wellness check on wBPD.

That really set her off.  I was getting texts from her son that is staying in the house, then the phone calls from her that were getting more and more aggressive and violent.  And then I started getting notifications from the ring doorbell.

I called 911 because I was afraid of going back home because I had no clue on what could happen to me. I was convinced that she was going to seriously physically injure / kill me.

I arrived at the house along with the police seeing piles of my personal belongings in the front yard, and she came boiling out of the house, yelling, screaming, cursing, saying derogatory things about the neighbors, the police, me,    the police gave her direction to calm down, to stop screaming, and, well, she didn't. Even after many statements from the officers to calm down.  She actually went the other way and became even more aggressive, and starting saying things about how the cops are corrupt, that I lied to them, and even attempted to explain away her statements in front of the officers concerning her self deletion threats, and threats of severe physical injury directed to me.  That she had immediately said before in front of them!

She was arrested and went to jail. The charges are DV and disorderly conduct.  A order of protection was immediately put into place until she has her day in court for this incident.  About 3 weeks or so.  She cannot communicate with me in any way, she cannot come to the house, she cannot come to my work.  If she wants any items from the house she has to have a police escort to do it.  Or go through a neutral 3rd party.  Again, if she wants "her" things then, she's more than welcome to it.

After she was released, she came to the house with police escort to gather some of her things, clothes, etc.  She still was spouting off about how everything was my fault, I was the one that made her that way, still attempting to explain away her threats of suicide and physical harm / killing me threats.

She left, and then she immediately started making phone calls to her son.  She was attempting to re-establish control of me via a third party.  Demanding a certain amount of $$ to be in a certain bank account, which .. how is 300$ for a single stay in a hotel?  What?   

Prior to this blow up I had been facing the fear of contacting family / friends and had started contacting them and letting them know what was going on.

Monday the 27th, I went to court and put in a request for a protective order that would last for 1 year. The court granted it immediately.  If she fights it, there will be a court date on it.  But I have 2 years of text messages, witnesses who are willing to testify, ring videos, and audio recordings. Currently I have sole exclusive access to the house and the dog.  I know that she has friends that have firearms.  I really don't know what she is capable of.

After a few days of not being around her.  I have found that I'm in a much better space in my self.  I'm not jumping as much when I receive a text notification. Or a phone call.

Living with the fear that she would self delete on one side, the fear of physical violence on the other, and then in the middle all the behaviors that are not good.. the alienation, isolation, rages, triggering, shame, belittlement, to name a very few as an example ... I can't, I cannot do it any longer.  I cannot continue living in a situation where to keep the peace, I have to be like a organic robot that can read minds. Her mind specifically.

Even then, I don't think that would work.

Yes, I had been groomed for many years into a person that .. well .. wasn't me.  And even then she would get triggered, have a rage outburst, because according to her, I have so many filters to get things through that "your not real"  from a person that stated that if you don't go to sleep facing them, you don't want them.  You don't love them, that not doing an action exactly how she lectured me on, means that you don't care, ... that a amazon shopping addiction was perfectly fine but asking her to __________________ means that I am a controlling SOB.  And that immediately after getting raged at, shamed, belittled, insulted, I should be able to go into horny mode and have sex with her.

Somehow or another, I'm an evil genius that completely destroyed her life.

I have retained a lawyer for the process of divorce.  He appears to be PD aware and is part of a larger office that if needed could be called upon for more of a nuanced approach.  I'm a reasonable person.  But the expectations of the court may appear to her that they are not reasonable.  It appears at this time that the courts have an expectation that people are supposed to be as self supporting as possible.  She probably will not like that.  Since to her that is unreasonable since she does have a physical issue with 1 leg.  She does have medical limitations but she has used that as a means to not support herself or to contribute to the marital financials. However, the physical limitations didn't stop her from being / doing mermaiding.  It's a LARP (Live Action Roll Play)  in many ways.  I'm willing to pay a reasonable amount of spousal support, and I want to stay in the house for at least two years, until I finish my degree, and then the house will be sold, and she can receive her fair and equitable portion of the proceeds after all liabilities are satisfied. 

All I can suggest to those who are in a relationship is to be very very aware and maintain a healthy self interest.  Do not allow negative behaviors to go unchallenged, do not allow them to isolate you. 

Peace.

[BigOof]

Congratulations! Excellent execution.

Don't get charmed. So lovely not being blamed all the time.

[StartingHealing]

Tis very nice to not be blamed all the time.

After doing a process called post operations report (it's from the military)  Its a holistic approach, that focuses on mistakes, what could have been better, and how to correct going forward.  I have concluded the following:

The entire marriage was a fantasy. A phantasm.  Since there was nothing real on her side at all.  That this was a creation of a PD, a person that is mentally ill.   The ideal that she was promoting was from a disney fairytail, with a romantic comedy movie, and romance novels thrown in for the spicy stuff.  All leading to her attempting to engulf me completely.  Even at that point, at this time, I doubt that would have been enough for her. 

 That the vetting I did do wasn't nearly enough.  That I was being manipulated by her the very first time I spoke with her.

The idolization phase is a bugger to resist.  Add in the monkey double backflips in the bedroom.

As such, having self compassion, knowing firmly that I did the best I could at the time, with the tools, knowledge, and insight I had at the time, I can look myself in the mirror and state that I did the very best I could.   

Now, I can also look firmly at myself and see where the damage is and start the process of repair. 

Peace

[ForeverDad]

It is possible, as was the case with my own divorce, that you are permanently blacklisted and despised in her perceptions.  (I divorced about 15 years ago and just this past week she disparaged me as "evil" to our now-grown son.  She has never let go the legal actions I had to take to counter her allegations and spite.)

However, be prepared in case your spouse does what many here have reported, that theirs did roller coasters back into seeking yet another do-over.

Be very aware of both possibilities, whether you are permanently shunned or she tries to get back for another cycle of love-hate until you are shunned again.

You are very justified to have sought for a protection order.  Conflict is a real concern in the early days of a separation or divorce.

I have observed that our membership here overall is composed of Nice Guys and Nice Gals.  Those are great qualities but on the other hand these same qualities can be used against us to sabotage our good intentions.  Beware of your sentiments to be "fair" or overly fair.  Your lawyer will tell you that her lawyer and the other professionals associated with court will likely provide her (as a woman) more assistance than for you.  So there is no benefit for you to do anything but to protect yourself legally, physically and emotionally.

As has been commented, The one behaving poorly seldom will get consequences and the one behaving well will seldom get credit.

So your children and her children are all grown.  Are there any children from this marriage, minor children?

[Manic Miner]

It is possible, as was the case with my own divorce, that you are permanently blacklisted and despised in her perceptions.  (I divorced about 15 years ago and just this past week she disparaged me as "evil" to our now-grown son.  She has never let go the legal actions I had to take to counter her allegations and spite.

ForeverDad, can you tell us what generally happens to BPD wives after divorce? Do they remarry easily, do they stay lonely, repeat the process or what? While everyone seems to have unique story, still some similarities prevail among BPD sufferers.

[StartingHealing]

It is possible, as was the case with my own divorce, that you are permanently blacklisted and despised in her perceptions.  (I divorced about 15 years ago and just this past week she disparaged me as "evil" to our now-grown son.  She has never let go the legal actions I had to take to counter her allegations and spite.)

  That would be perfectly fine with me.  For you cannot be a hero in your own story if you are unwilling to be the villain in someone else's story.  Considering the fact of PD?  She can claim what ever she wants.  She can feel what ever she wants.  That is not my responsibility. Our social circles are not the same.  Being objective here, she doesn't have a long term social network.  She never has had one due to her own actions. 

However, be prepared in case your spouse does what many here have reported, that theirs did roller coasters back into seeking yet another do-over.

I. Am. Done.  No do-overs, no trying again, no nothing.
 Take a long relaxing walk as far away from me as possible off a short pier. As the song states, Don't go away mad, just go away. The probability that she will in fact do the work necessary in therapy in order to achieve some sort of normalcy (however many years it takes?) isn't very high.  She has never wanted to work for something. Rather, her input into something is exceptionally low but has high expectations of return. 

Be very aware of both possibilities, whether you are permanently shunned or she tries to get back for another cycle of love-hate until you are shunned again.

Due to the existing order of protection, I am in a state of no contact.  That order ends when she has her hearing on the DV charge. That is why the additional order for a longer period of time. That should be served on her during that time that she is the location for court.
  I am much more likely to call the proper authorities now than I was previously. Even if she mails me a letter, that is still contact, and I will report it.  On the outside chance that a flying monkey sends an email, letter, phone call, on her behalf, I will still report it.

You are very justified to have sought for a protection order.  Conflict is a real concern in the early days of a separation or divorce.

I have observed that our membership here overall is composed of Nice Guys and Nice Gals.  Those are great qualities but on the other hand these same qualities can be used against us to sabotage our good intentions.  Beware of your sentiments to be "fair" or overly fair.  Your lawyer will tell you that her lawyer and the other professionals associated with court will likely provide her (as a woman) more assistance than for you.  So there is no benefit for you to do anything but to protect yourself legally, physically and emotionally.

True.  In the USA state that I am in, there is less of a gender preference issue than in some others.  To my benefit.  The lawyer is starting at 0 spousal support but the paperwork will indicate that I am willing to pay a reasonable amount. As long as it doesn't negatively impact me. The state does have an expectation that both parties are self supporting.    When I told the lawyer I have retained about her claims that I would be paying 100% of her life, he chuckled and asked me how much I made, I showed him and then he said, with that kind of money?  Who's she kidding?   Also in the state I am in there is a concept of marital waste.  I asked if she fit that and he stated yes, yes she did based on my verbal statements.  I got order statements from Amazon, and the shared bank account statements and went through and highlighted the transactions that could be considered wasteful. Which I have already provided to my attorney. In one years time she purchased enough clothing to completely change out her entire wardrobe 4 times. And that was just through Amazon. 
Add in the other purchases from the shared bank accounts and .. 400$ a month average?  I do not know if she will have the money in order for her to retain an attorney.  Honestly, I don't care.  I will not be paying for her attorney.  There are places she can go for pro-bono assistance. There are steps that can be taken to ensure that the divorce goes through in a timely manner in the event that she doesn't have an attorney or decides to not respond.  And one mustn't forget about her DV charge.  While that doesn't impact the divorce settlement legally, it provides me with a better standing in the court along with that I am the one that is working full time, in college full time, and have worked at the same location for 11 years.
 

As has been commented, The one behaving poorly seldom will get consequences and the one behaving well will seldom get credit.

So your children and her children are all grown.  Are there any children from this marriage, minor children?

No. No minor children from the marriage.  No adult children from the marriage. My daughter from a prior union will not have anything to do with her.  Her own son, is exceptionally reserved in communicating with her as well. In fact there were 2 years that he did not communicate with her at all. Based on previous behavior, if she gets to ratchet with him, he will probably do the same and go no contact.

[PeteWitsend]

ForeverDad, can you tell us what generally happens to BPD wives after divorce? Do they remarry easily, do they stay lonely, repeat the process or what? While everyone seems to have unique story, still some similarities prevail among BPD sufferers.

I will chime in with my experience: expect to be recycled quickly.  And with almost anybody.  And expect a lot of games.

During our marriage, BPDxw would tell me things like if I left her, she'd just find a rich guy to "take care of her" and also, in response to anytime I didn't "jump" as soon as demanded, "If a man doesn't take care of his wife, another will."

She was somewhat delusional here, since what rich guy WANTS to tie himself down to a divorcee past her prime, with kid(s)?  

Here was my experience: BPDxw demanded a "morality clause" in our separation orders: no romantic interests could spend the night when kids were there.  She was also REALLY demanding, insisting I introduce her to anyone who I might date or who I might introduce to our D beforehand, and promising to do the same.  (I never planned on going along with that... yeah right... I wasn't born yesterday)

So how did this play out?  She had a guy living in her house within 3-4 months of me moving out.  No idea how or when they met.  She never mentioned him, introduced him, or offered to have me meet him.  

I noticed someone else signed our daughter out of daycare once, during this time period and when I inquired who, BPDxw played coy, refusing to say who it was, only that our daughter "knows and loves them."  I let me lawyer know, but he never responded, and unbeknownst to me, was pretty much on "auto-pilot" in my case, and barely doing any work.

I only found out this person was living in the house when I stopped by to pick up something she forgot to give our D at a change of possession, and our D asked if I saw "the boy who lived there now"... after further questioning, I learned this "boy" sleeps in BPDxw's bed.  

So who was the potential rich "white knight" she found to save her and take care of her needs?  Turned out to be an unemployed construction worker, overweight, with chronic back problems and who was several years younger than her.  

Evidently, the lesson she learned from our divorce was not that she needed to check her behavior, but she needed to find a guy dependent on her so he could not leave when she started the mental & emotional abuse...

[ForeverDad]

I do not know if she will have the money in order for her to retain an attorney.  Honestly, I don't care.  I will not be paying for her attorney.  There are places she can go for pro-bono assistance.

When I divorced, I never directly paid her lawyers.  However, we did have to divide our marital equity in the house.

If there are marital assets assets to be split, then her lawyers would probably get their fees deducted from whatever she gets from the divorce.

Without children or their custody at issue, then your divorce ought to be more like two businesses unwinding merger, though she will surely inject an incredible amount of emotional claims and blaming.

[ForeverDad]

ForeverDad, can you tell us what generally happens to BPD wives after divorce? Do they remarry easily, do they stay lonely, repeat the process or what? While everyone seems to have unique story, still some similarities prevail among BPD sufferers.

Though there are many common patterns evident, they range all over the map, so to speak.

Some will immediately seek out replacements.  Some don't, or don't tell you.  (My ex is in that category.)

Some will permanently paint you as more evil than evil itself.  Some will try to keep you hooked, sort of "simmering on the back burner" for recycling attempts later.

Be prepared for the pwBPD (person with BPD or some other acting-out PD) to appear to have recovered with better behaviors once there is distance between you.  That isn't actual recovery.  BPD is a disorder that impacts most the closest of relationships.  People on the periphery such as occasional contacts don't get the brunt of impacts.  It is worse the closer you are.  Similarly, it often gets "less bad" when there is some distance apart.  But without intensive long term therapy — and diligent application of that therapy — the disordered thinking, perceptions and behaviors will still be there.

[PeteWitsend]

...
Some will permanently paint you as more evil than evil itself.  Some will try to keep you hooked, sort of "simmering on the back burner" for recycling attempts later.

...

Yes, recycle attempts are something to watch out for.  I didn't mention it, but I got the sense BPDxw played coy with the fact that she had a boyfriend because she expected I would get jealous, and want to come back.  She was WAY off tho... I was happier alone than I had been in years, and would cut off my left arm before I moved back with her.  

I think around 2 months after I moved out, she started hinting she was dating someone, because she'd go out of her way to mention when I was picking up my Daughter that I should be on time because she had plans, and would add a wink emoji.
 Then there was the aforementioned dodginess when I confronted her about who was picking up our D.  

I had no interest in playing games though.

I'd also add, in my case BPDxw seemed to really "drink her own Kool-Aid," and believed that the only possible reason I could have left was because I was cheating on her, (and also that I'd eventually come back).  She kept demanding to know if there was another woman, and even baited me by saying she just wanted to know "for her" and accepted the fact that it was over, and wouldn't use it in court.  Yeah right.  She was - to the end - apparently oblivious of the fact that how she behaved was enough to drive me away.  

There was no other woman... just yet another pointless fight that left me confused over how or why it started, why she was angry, and this one was the straw that broke the camel's back.  

That's another thing to watch out for... when you leave, leave.  Don't get sucked into pointless discussions about why.  At best, you'll only waste your time arguing about more he said/she said nonsense; and at worst, you may admit or say something that he or she can twist around to cause more grief for you in court, or among friends or family.

[StartingHealing]

When I divorced, I never directly paid her lawyers.  However, we did have to divide our marital equity in the house.

If there are marital assets assets to be split, then her lawyers would probably get their fees deducted from whatever she gets from the divorce.

Without children or their custody at issue, then your divorce ought to be more like two businesses unwinding merger, though she will surely inject an incredible amount of emotional claims and blaming.

ForeverDad, yes there will be a division of the equity in the house.   Perhaps.   I am requesting that I have sole access to the house for 2 years to finish my degree.   I asked my attorney if that was reasonable and he stated that in this case, it is reasonable.  All I'm doing is buying time.

 As far as the emotionality and blaming.  The state that I am in is a no fault state.  No reasons need to be given to seek divorce.  Also, she is the one that has the DV charge. And will be facing mandatory anger management classes. She's not in a good place to be creating chaos.  If she steps out of line, they will issue a warrant and will send her to jail.  If she doesn't go to her hearing, warrant for arrest, she fails to complete the classes, warrant for arrest. If she contacts me, warrant for arrest.

The anger management classes last for 120 days.  Within that time frame my divorce attorney should have have her served. 

There are times that I feel the old fear, but objectively, I'm setting pretty good actually. 

 

[Turkish]

ForeverDad, can you tell us what generally happens to BPD wives after divorce? Do they remarry easily, do they stay lonely, repeat the process or what? While everyone seems to have unique story, still some similarities prevail among BPD sufferers.

"Wherever you go, there you are."

My ex, 31, left me for a 21 college football stud. I was 41. We had two kids, 1 and 3. He was her 2nd Great Forever Love of her life. A previous bf was the 1st, not me.

She married him 1.5 years later. Hilarity (and dysfunction) ensues... she booted him (separation) a little over a year later. It was well over another year until she officially divorced him. I felt sorry for him: mutual DV, she worse, a restraining order against his brother, and her husband arrested and charged for resisting arrest.

While still married to him, she asked to come back (by text  ) two of my friends said she would but I didn't believe it.

Certainly covid affected the concept of dating, but she's 40 and still single because she's strong and doesn't need anybody. She telegraphs this on social media.

Was I happy to get closure? Kind of but not really. It would be exaggerating to say it was a Pyrrhic Victory, but kind of. I was willing to work with a step dad, even her affair partner. The kids liked him. Yet their views of step parents were affected by how badly their mom treated him and talked to them about him. They still tell me things a few years later. "Mommy doesn't want to get married again because she's afraid she'll find someone like [former step-dad]."

My therapist told me years ago that "personalities typically don't change."

It's natural on the Detaching Board especially for members to get stuck wondering, "if only I'd done better, and the next person seems to be, what was wrong with me?"

Certainly, we can always do better, but also as my T said, "she's an independent entity, free to make her own choices, no matter how unwise we might view them."

On the PSI board (parent, Sibling, in-law), I've read so many stories of BPD parents in decades long marriages with "nons." That is, spouses who learn to deal with BPD behaviors and even enable them, to the detriment of their relationships with their children.

[GaGrl]

My husband's ex (uNPD/BPD) began constant and blatant infidelities about 18 months into their marriage. She, by that time, had achieved her goal of marrying a U.S. citizen and obtaining a green card. We have, through Ancestry DNA , only recently gotten confirmation that his son is probably his bio son (still not confirmed).

H's ex spent 20 years in a series of affairs. DH lived with it due to FOG -- Fear of her angry, aggressive tantrums, Obligation that he had brought her to the U.S. away from her family and culture and was therefore responsible for her, and Guilt -- who knows where that came from?

So they began living separately in the mid-1990s, and then we reconnected (high school crushes, although that hardly explains the passion) in 2005. Nevertheless, she was devastated that he would move on, even though she had a well-established living arrangement with the partner she is still with today. She made the divorce difficult -- until DH said he would go after a share of her business. Which was an Asian Massage Parlor -- AMP-- and would have exposed her to a host of problems -- IRS, local ordinances, cash in a safe deposit box with DH's name on it.

Strange...

[StartingHealing]

Hello all,

I am currently in the process of becoming reacquainted with myself.

So far I have found that I'm a damn good man.  With the BPD/NPD person's idealization, then gaslighting, hurt locker, belittling, etc. I had lost myself.  Thank goodness that there is an order of protection that enforces no contact.

Dealing with the emotional fallout. (I have to say not having her in my daily experience?  That is bliss at this moment)

However, there is the anger, loss, happiness, and so on.  Gotta process it somehow.

One thing I do know for certain is that I am not going to re-engage with her.  Once burned, twice shy you know?

Also having insights on the how and why sexual congress went to hell in a handbasket.   Coming from the perspective of that I wasn't I.  I was simply an object, a carbon based android that she could move around to fill roles that she had created for scenes in her internal movie.

With that understanding, it makes sense to me that she would have "scripted" out sexual encounters.  And heaven help me if I "ad-libbed" in anything.  That would throw her script off and then her reaction would be to shame, guilt, insult, gaslight, ridicule, etc. etc.

It appears to me at this time, this scripting went beyond the bedroom.  It went through every aspect of her life. 

The "fantasy" that she created within, .. Sigh. 

After listening to lots of podcasts, videos, reading, it came to a point where it appears that the idealization phase is a fantasy, so does that fantasy stop or does it continue on through all phases?  I am leaning towards in my soon to be exwBPD/NPD case, that fantasy, that movie,  is where she was operating from, and is continuing to operate from.

Being a victim is a cornerstone of her movie.

Peace

[15years]

Taking a step to the side and witnessing things happening from a more neutral perspective, I agree that there's a clear fantasy element. Hadn't thought about it like that. In a situation yesterday I was thinking to myself - "I'm so done being involved in this [fantasy]". But clearly I'm not yet done.

Good to hear you're doing well and getting a clearer picture of everything. I envy you for having come this far!

[StartingHealing]

Taking a step to the side and witnessing things happening from a more neutral perspective, I agree that there's a clear fantasy element. Hadn't thought about it like that. In a situation yesterday I was thinking to myself - "I'm so done being involved in this [fantasy]". But clearly I'm not yet done.

Good to hear you're doing well and getting a clearer picture of everything. I envy you for having come this far!

15years,

Thank you.

I've come this far because of this board and others, and doing my damnedest to learn as much as possible, and having self compassion.

 Which is something that I cannot stress enough.  Do not take the knowledge / wisdom of today and cast it back upon yourself in the past. What I've noticed is by doing that it creates a coulda, shoulda, woulda, pattern that is a sure fire way to really f yourself up.

As a reasonable estimate, I did about 25 - 30 hours a week in learning via reading books, listening to audiobooks, watching / listening to videos. About 9 months ago is when I finally admitted to myself that there was something flat out "wrong" with my soon to be exwBPD and that is also when I started learning and coming out of the F.O.G.

Then I had to take a hard look at myself and admit that I was on the receiving end of abuse.  Then answer the questions of "why did I take it?"  "why did I stay?" Those questions that call out my own B.S. and weaknesses.  Even the misapplication of attempting to be a man of honor. 

For me, the pattern of her behavior only makes sense to me if she is actively attempting to create her fantasy in real life.  Think on this:  The idealization phase is a fantasy, the clingy lover phase is a fantasy, and the discard phase is also a fantasy. 

What's real here?  What can be objectively agreed on?  Anything? Nothing?

Here are some channels that I have only recently found.

https://www.youtube.com/c/ToddGrande
https://www.youtube.com/c/RICHARDGRANNON
https://www.youtube.com/user/samvaknin

I will warn you that the Sam Vaknin and Richard Grannon channels, you need to be on point with them.  They go hella deep.

Todd Grande, actually has some vids in which he speaks on the damage created by BPD in non BPD's.  He even talks about the confusion that happens in a non because the behavior of the non has no correlation to the BPD's behavior. And how that can lead to depression, hopelessness, etc.  Add in verbal, mental, emotional abuse, and you end up in a very bad place.  I was there.  There were several times in the marriage where I was seriously considering self-deletion.  Yes, it was that bad.

Some things to be aware of is that I have noticed in some of the content that I went through is a type of baseline assumption that the BPD suffering is more valid, is worth more in some way, or is deeper than the people suffering from their abuse.

How can that be determined?  Which criteria was used in making this determination? Is this an assumption from a professional mental health perspective or did the creators own personal bias leak through?

I also feel that some of the suggested ways of communicating with a PD person places such a high bar on the non that it's not doable.  Example:  You must be aware of your tone of voice, body posture, and facial expressions and how the BPD person will perceive them. The PD perception changes from moment to moment to moment, yet I'm supposed to be able to read their mind and know how to be an actor of such caliber that I can pull that off in one take? While under extreme emotional / mental stress.

So the BPD is in a fantasy of her own creation in which I am not I, I am not human, I am object to fulfill her "script" and to "communicate" with her I have to embody this great actor archetype? 

Where does that end?  At which point does it become acceptable to be human?  To express emotion?  To be sad, hurt, upset, happy, joyful? To exist? To love and be loved, warts and all? 

I do have compassion because it appears that exwBPD is suffering.  I say appears because her go to is playing a victim.  Kind of difficult to distinguish between the role and the real.  There are times where I think that she has played that role so much that she has become it. Since one of her "scripts" is to have a strong knight in shining armor come dashing in to save her from _____________________.

Today, I have decided to make a stand that should serve me well going forward.  It's simple. 

Never again.

 I will do whatever it takes to heal, to have immutable boundaries, to have an enlightened self interest, to protect and serve myself.   

Peace

 

 

 

[livednlearned]

What a harrowing night. You've been through a lot, StartingHealing (great name btw) to make an understatement.

Thanks for sharing with us the detail about how the well-check was triggered. I hadn't heard of that before. It's so hard to know how these things work until we wade in and discover how deep the water actually is.

Even though you didn't intend to get the police involved, are you relieved now that it worked out that way?

Like many here I was initially so cautious, trying not to escalate anything legally (ostensibly to protect our child) but the effect of that was ultimately very expensive and time-consuming. You end up in an infuriating legal limbo of he-said, she-said.  

Two years into that kind of slow boil, my ex had a psychotic episode and suddenly the court system sat up and paid attention, similar to what you experienced. While it's awful to go through, it does minimize the gaslighting (for lack of a better word) that can happen with judges and whatnot who aren't sure what to believe, so they let out some rope to see what each of you will do with it.

And will be facing mandatory anger management classes. She's not in a good place to be creating chaos.  If she steps out of line, they will issue a warrant and will send her to jail.  If she doesn't go to her hearing, warrant for arrest, she fails to complete the classes, warrant for arrest. If she contacts me, warrant for arrest.

She seems very dysregulated, more so than a majority of the cases here.

My ex was ordered to take mandatory anger management classes too, although there was no warrant for arrest if he didn't participate. He would lose access to his child if he didn't participate, but that was apparently not a motivating factor for him. He never did the classes, or any of the other court-ordered actions as a consequence for his behaviors.

Given how dysregulated your ex seems to be, and how impulsive she is, it's hard to imagine she will successfully complete the course.

I would be more concerned about a psychotic break in which she seeks you out. The order of protection is a legal tactic, as Gavin de Becker likes to point out in his book (Gift of Fear). It does not ensure safety.

There is something almost feral that seems to happen when dysregulated people feel backed in a corner. With my ex, that feral-ness did abate over time. But professionally he was able to land his dream job and start over in a new town and I am forever grateful for that. Your wife seems less economically stable. I would hope she finds someone or maybe has a psychiatric episode that gets her help, if she can accept it.

Will you stay in contact with her son?