Early in relationship, how to help?

[Theghengis]

I'm early in a relationship (~2 mos) with a woman I now strongly suspect has BPD (8-9 criteria in DSM). First lovebombing, then clinging, then negging and arguing followed by episode and frantic attempt to reconcile. Cycle repeats.

She is well known for using people for money, alcohol and favors along with promiscuity, but seems to be treating me differently. Told me she has fear of abandonment, says I'm her favorite person, that I need to validate her emotions, so she may already suspect she has BPD, but tells people Depression, Anxiety, ADHD, OCD and is on pills.

Doesn't seem to be genuinely interested in me or my life outside what affects her (never asks HOW I'm doing, just where and what), very manipulative like a younger person, plays jealousy games, obsessed with attention and how she looks, constant complaining about things along with negging me (I am super confident though).

Want to see if things can be improved, if this is a spectrum (her 'splitting' hadn't been super mean), or if they will worsen over time. As it is now is already unacceptable.

FYI We were not-close friends 4 years previously

Thanks

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[babyducks]

welcome Theghengis,

I can relate to much of what you wrote.   

Told me she has fear of abandonment, says I'm her favorite person, that I need to validate her emotions, so she may already suspect she has BPD, but tells people Depression, Anxiety, ADHD, OCD and is on pills.

That's an interesting phrase.    Have you ever googled 'favorite person and bpd'?

For someone with BPD, the favorite person is deemed the most important person in their life. This person can be anyone, but it’s often a romantic partner, family member, good friend, or another supportive person (like a coach, therapist, or teacher).

This person may become the source of all happiness and validation (potentially leading to relationship burnout for the other partner). The individual with BPD wants their favorite person’s attention as much as possible, and the quality of the relationship can undoubtedly shape their mood, confidence, and sense of security.

Being a favorite person can put a lot of stress on you.   How do you feel about that role?

It sounds like she is in treatment of some kind if she is on medication?   You mentioned pills?

'ducks

[Theghengis]

Yeah I understand what that means, and took it as a sign she may know, since she also knew to tell me about the insane fear of abandonment and how I need to validate her emotions when she 'gets like that'. She hasn't mentioned BPD, but there is a stigma behind it. She no longer calls me her FB, likely because I haven't pursued going further than casual with her, and mentioned I wouldnt date a woman in the past because she has kids and sever mental problems.

I know she's been spending time with other guys (activating her back burners) lately after we get in an argument.

She's on some kind of meds, says they are for other thngs, but hasn't seen a therapist in 4-5 months.

They splits aren't bad, she just accused me of manipulation and gaslighting (what she does), and I didn't consider she may have BPD until the last argument. We made up after a couple days, and now I see most of the issues through the lens of her being afraid of me not liking her enough or breaking up with her and it makes more sense.

What I want to know is will this get better, or worse? It's only been 2 months, though much if that time we've been cohabitating so feels much longer.

[Cat Familiar]

It seems that you are getting a full picture of who she is and how she behaves. What you can expect in the future is more of the same.

[Theghengis]

Things feel toxic. The negging, the veiled threats, the guilt trips, weird jealousy games, and of course the splitting (which isn't nearly as bad as what I've heard) followed by frantic attention seeking. On the other hand I am just so attracted to her, I try to stay away and it hurts to not see her or do anything I can to help her. I want to help her so bad.

[Cat Familiar]

Think about what you’d feel like if someone told you that your behavior was not OK and they wanted to *help* you.

Now imagine how feeling the tremendous shame that accompanies BPD and think of how it might feel to her to be told that you want to *help* her.

Do you foresee that this could be extremely invalidating?

[Theghengis]

What I say on this message board is me trying to work through my own feelings about it. I was in a very weak place when I posted that. She wanted to come over and spend the night and I told her not tonight I have to work and she was pushing on that boundary then guilt tripping then ghosting and I was feeling very bad and missing her. Sorry.

I've told her from the very beginning that I wanted to take care of her and she said she loves it. But I've never mentioned anything about mental issues to her or suggested anything other than when she said she contacted her therapist I said "sounds like a good idea", I'm not disrespectful. I know it isn't my place to suggest a diagnosis. I'm not a clinician.

She hasn't told me she has BPD, it's just what I strongly suspect from what she's told me and what I've experienced. Regardless if this works out, I want  to do right by people and be helpful whether I'm with her or not as I'm always a friends first kind of person. It just gets admittedly difficult when you're also dating for me I guess, because of my own trust issues.

Thanks for the feedback btw

[Cat Familiar]

Really there’s no way for a partner/lover/friend to *help* someone with BPD. Even experienced therapists find themselves at a loss.

The person with BPD is the only one capable of making improvements in their life and that’s only if they chose to do so. It takes a lot of commitment to do DBT therapy and learn better patterns of thinking and behaving. Few seem to manage the desire to do this.

It’s sort of a take it or leave it conundrum. You might want the relationship with the *good* side of the person, but you will also be in a relationship with the *troublesome* side too.

It’s all about whether you can put up with the difficulties that come with BPD or not.

[DarkKnight]

I have recently ended my 17 month (and engaged) with my ex--- and am currently reviewing all the warning signs that I went through, and accepted her apologies and welcomed her back.  I have every text we ever sent and am going through all of them now.  I am flagging every setback we had due to her issues with BPD (she also is un-diagnosed)--- and I am now saying-- why didnt I run then?  or how about this one I should have definitely left!   Way too many chances because I loved the early part too and wanted that back.   I know everyone is different-- but my experience is it doesnt get better-- it gets worse.  You have to make your own call-- but for me -- I wished I would have saved my health (and wallet) and left  her after the 3rd main issue-- not the 11th or 12th.  For what is worth-- wish you the best of luck on making the best decision for you.

[Theghengis]

Sorry that happened to you, and I hope you made the right choice for yourself, even if it was difficult. You have to put yourself #1.

I myself decided to end things after 2 months. Told her that her behavior and treatment of me was unacceptable, along with the lying, and that was that. She begged and pleaded, but I'm done.

I'm not going no contact, I think I can handle things without doing that, and I've heard that can be especially hard on someone with BPD? Is that true?

[Cat Familiar]

Be careful of being lured back in with empty promises. That’s a common occurrence when ending a relationship with a BPD partner.

Fearing abandonment is typical of BPD. Whether or not no contact seems advisable—some people with BPD move on quickly, seemingly without a care in the world, while some are desperate to recycle.

[Theghengis]

This is the second time I've ended things, and there was a major fight where I discovered it may be BPD (which explained a lot of things). Bothe times within a week there was an 'I miss you" text followed a day later by calls and texts all day (and fb messages, etc).  So I'm already used to that pattern. This feels different so far, but we'll see.

[mitten]

The question you could ask yourself:  If you weren't in this relationship already would you enter it now knowing what you know now?

[Theghengis]

That's an excellent point, and the crux of it really. I didn't HAVE to stay in the relationship. So I didn't. I was lucky in that I saw what was going on within the first two months, and exited ethically.

[mitten]

That's an excellent point, and the crux of it really. I didn't HAVE to stay in the relationship. So I didn't. I was lucky in that I saw what was going on within the first two months, and exited ethically.

I'm just impressed that you were able to figure it out so quickly!  Took me 7 years!

[kells76]

I didn't HAVE to stay in the relationship. So I didn't. I was lucky in that I saw what was going on within the first two months, and exited ethically.

Agreed with mitten, that's a pretty profound insight to have, even though it seems so simple.

Bothe times within a week there was an 'I miss you" text followed a day later by calls and texts all day (and fb messages, etc).  So I'm already used to that pattern. This feels different so far, but we'll see.

Has she gotten back in touch with you since you posted that? If so, how did that go for you? If not, what are your thoughts since then?

[SaltyDawg]

That's an excellent point, and the crux of it really. I didn't HAVE to stay in the relationship. So I didn't. I was lucky in that I saw what was going on within the first two months, and exited ethically.

I'm just impressed that you were able to figure it out so quickly!  Took me 7 years!

#MeToo  I am also impressed.

It took me over two decades to figure it out -- I guess that I am a slow learner  

My marriage to a uBPDw has been in crises for the past 15 years (ever since she became pregnant and she knew I wouldn't leave due to moral/legal obligations to her [abandonment issues] -- I have two children 11 and 15 - both are severely affected by this.  Once I learned about BPD, I also figured out the emotional toll on my children -- one is an extreme caretaker with dAN (anorexia nervosa at age 12), and the other is a uBPD/NPD - who is in counseling for the past two years and is making rapid progress once uBPD was identified in my wife and communicated to his counselor.

Now that I know about BPD -- if I knew from the start, I would not do this again.

If she leaves, it will be for good; however, I cannot do that to my children -- so I am very motivated to make it work, at least until the children are out of the home (another 7 years).

The previous relationship was to a uNPD-SO, that I did figure out comparatively quickly, and ghosted her after she cheated on me not once, but twice.  This is the curse of the caretaker, is to have -up relationships, which my wife (current relationship) is aware of that is why she threatens divorce, but has never actually followed through with it.  I also feel that this knowledge also allowed her to keep it mostly hidden from me until she became pregnant.

What really opened my eyes was reading the following book which described my feelings/actions/situation to a 99+% accuracy in section 1.  I feel that is an excellent read for anyone who is a caretaker of a Borderline and/or Narcissist:

Stop Caretaking the Borderline Or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life
Book by Margalis Fjelstad

[Theghengis]

Agreed with mitten, that's a pretty profound insight to have, even though it seems so simple.

Has she gotten back in touch with you since you posted that? If so, how did that go for you? If not, what are your thoughts since then?

I had only casual relationships since my divorce 10 years ago, so I was very comfortable just becoming single again. The early lovebombing gave me pause, so I kept one foot out and observed without setting boundaries to see what she would do. I honestly thought she just had some narcissistic traits plus anger issues until the splitting episode where she threw me out of her house, and was lucky enough to have some friends mention borderline. From there it was running behaviors through the DSM and researching how to ethically remove myself.

She tried every trick in the book during the breakup, but I let her know I wasn't interested and had many other options. She tried to get me to talk to her a couple times after, but I politely declined and let her know again I had other options. She's been posting on FB about mental health and a need to get back in therapy and on meds, but seems to think she has depression, anxiety, ADHD, OCD, and PTSD rather than BPD. I may inform her if she contacts me again (then she likely REALLY won't want to talk to me).

I honestly feel bad for her, and miss some of the nice things, but it wasn't healthy or stable enough for me. She was a very selfish person who used people, and that's not the BPD. Those are character flaws. I can do better than that.

[Theghengis]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the advice and support here last year! I moved on, lesson learned!

Thanks again!

[mitten]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the advice and support here last year! I moved on, lesson learned!

Thanks again!

Good for you!  I admire the insight you had early on the courage you had to take action quickly.  That can be so hard because the BPD can often make you feel guilty for leaving so you feel stuck.  Also, thanks for updating the group on your progress.  I hope you'll stick around to help new members navigate their sticky situations.

[kells76]

Welcome back, Theghengis  it's always nice to hear where you're at in your journey.

If you haven't taken a look yet, check out our "Detaching and Learning..." board -- now that you've closed the door on your relationship and are moving on, that could be a good fit for your current situation.

Hope that's helpful!

kells76