Where to start?

[Chief Drizzt]

 Next month I will have been married to my wife for 33 years.  I’ve been living with a BPD spouse not knowing what it was (or if it was anything) until last week when she tried to commit suicide. A health care professional recommended I read a book called “Stop Caretaking the Borderline/Narcissist” - which has been enlightening to say the least.  My story is a long one and I don’t know where to start - but for now I will just say this - We have three kids together - the oldest two are all but estranged (she doesn’t know why) and the youngest who is 18 and still at home will probably be.  It’s heartbreaking.  My blame in all this is that I allowed to go on for so long without trying to figure out what it was and essentially covering it up and feeding it all these years.  I’m hoping to learn some stuff here…

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Husband2014]

Welcome to this community and I’m very sorry for your pain. There are some great posters here who will assuredly post and try to help you. Im about 1 year into this journey and trying to undo all the power I’ve allowed this monster I’m married to unleash on me and rescue my kids.

I would start off by asking what’s your main purpose here? Get in touch with your 2 estranged kids? Protect the other one? Set some boundaries? All of the above? 

[SaltyDawg]

Chief,

   Welcome to BPD Family.  Your story sounds very similar to mine, I found out about it this past June, and I have been with my wife 22 years, and we are approaching our 20 year wedding anniversary.  We have two children, with their own issues, and I am trying to prevent estrangement once they leave the house in addition to reversing the damage to each of the kinds in addition to my dear wife.

   It is a 'twilight zone' experience navigating this minefield.  My wife has 6 attempted suicides, domestic violence, and an assortment of other traits and symptoms.  It is pretty messed up.  You have come to the right place for additional support.

   The book you mentioned is one of the better ones out there and I relate to 99% of the stuff in it, there are many other books available from the public library, one of my favorite ones is “Stop Walking on Eggshells” by Paul T. Mason and Randi Kreger [3rd Edition] which will help you understand it a bit better than the 'stop caretaking' book.

   I know you are blaming yourself, I am still blaming myself, but I had no friggin clue as to what BPD was until my therapist enlightened me of it.  Please don't beat yourself up over this as you didn't cause this.

   Learning about BPD is like learning a foreign language, it will take time, you will have several 'ah hah' moments. 

   If your wife is 'self-aware' and is willing to do the work, it can be put into remission with your help. 

   You will learn a lot of stuff here.  IMHO, this is the best place to learn about it.

   A good place to learn more in addition to the 'caretaking book' and the one I mentioned is https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0

   I will wrap this up, with my number one piece of advice, and that is to do 'self-care' - make sure it includes individual therapy, exercise outdoors [as simple as a walk], among other activities that you enjoy doing to recharge your spirit.

   Take care.  Ask questions.  We are here to help.

[Chief Drizzt]

Thanks for the responses - it’s good to know I’m not alone in this - and I have felt that way for quite some time.  Perhaps with my two older kids using the word “estranged” was too strong.  They are still in our lives but avoid us as much as possible.  Our 18 year old is headed that way.  Once she heads off the college I doubt she’ll come home much

My wife is not yet “self-aware” but I’m working on it with her.  My goal right now is to try to get her back into in-patient treatment somewhere - but right now she sees that as an attack or an attempt to get rid of her.  Her psychiatrist is taking the lead on trying to convince her but not much luck just yet.  I’m hopeful she’ll eventually go though.

I’m curious - do your wives have any physical health issues going on?  That has been very prevalent the second half of our marriage and I wonder if that has exasperated her BPD condition.

[outhere]

Hi Chief Drizzt, welcome to the club.  My uBPDw has many complex physical health issues (as well as other mental health issues which overlap such as OCD) and there certainly seems to be a relationship between the stress and fears related to the physical health problems that trigger explosions of BPD.  When our life was simpler 10 years ago, we assumed that she just had a bad temper or something because it was less frequent and never very destructive, but when we had to start taking care of her parents because they had dementia, then they both died and the pandemic came and she almost died of a blood clot and was diagnosed with a rare disease, etc, etc... it's been really rough.  Good luck and it's absolutely not your or anyone else's fault.

[SaltyDawg]

Thanks for the responses - it’s good to know I’m not alone in this - and I have felt that way for quite some time. 

You're welcome, and you are not alone.  I knew something was wrong, it wasn't until I started individual therapy for myself that I realized what kind of relationship I was in, I did not even know what BPD was until this past June.


Perhaps with my two older kids using the word “estranged” was too strong.  They are still in our lives but avoid us as much as possible.  Our 18 year old is headed that way.  Once she heads off the college I doubt she’ll come home much

Limited Contact - can you blame them for the crap they have been through.  I D and I have had this very conversation, so it will likely be LC vs NC when she moves out of the home.


My wife is not yet “self-aware” but I’m working on it with her.  My goal right now is to try to get her back into in-patient treatment somewhere - but right now she sees that as an attack or an attempt to get rid of her.  Her psychiatrist is taking the lead on trying to convince her but not much luck just yet.  I’m hopeful she’ll eventually go though.

You have a distinct advantage over me, her mental health professional thinks she has something.  My wife's T's are telling her that she does not have BPD which is a tragedy, since she won't listen to me and has some really minor stuff - I don't call attempted self murder 'minor'.   However she is partially 'self-aware' which I am learning now will only take the recovery a 'partial' distance.  It is a lot better than it was before, but there is still a ways to go.


I’m curious - do your wives have any physical health issues going on?  That has been very prevalent the second half of our marriage and I wonder if that has exasperated her BPD condition.

Diagnosed 'anxiety' & diagnosed 'depression' the most common misdiagnoses for BPD.  I also think she has uOCPD - the miserly spending of OCPD and impulsivity of BPD kind of offset on the money side of things.  She also has hypertension, being overweight, and a few other minor issues.  Her BPD is mostly mild [high functioning invisible], and occasionally moderate, and rarely severe [violent].

Health issues are definitely a trigger, and will make it more pronounced, just as being 'hangry' and irritable.  Being tired and hungry are my wife's two biggest triggers, among other issues too.

[PeteWitsend]

Welcome @Chief Drizzt!

It's always disheartening, but sometimes very relieving to discover BPD, and its nature, and learn there was a "reason" of sorts behind the UNreasonable behavior of our BPD partners/spouses/family members.

I was thinking, with respect to your kids, are they estranged from you as well or just your wife?

As you seek to rebuild those relationships, it may help to disclose that you think your wife is BPD, a little bit about what it is, and what you plan to do about it.

When I was married, after I learned about BPD, and that my then-wife was likely "on the spectrum" I reached out to some of my family members that she had been feuding with to reassure them that I felt my wife had some issues, and that I loved them and hoped they would not let her upset them; basically not to take her spiteful emails and texts seriously and that I did not blame them for anything, I knew my then-wife was being unfair.

I heard that was very helpful and reassuring to all of them, and that helped them understand what I was going through and how to help (or not help).

[Chief Drizzt]

Saltydog - yea her psych is definitely on board with the BPD - but hasn’t made a diagnosis - says it’s on her radar.  Not sure about her therapist.

So with regards to the kids - we were in the process of trying to get things patched up with them when she attempted suicide.  She is fixated on our middle son and his wife and whenever they are around things go awry. That’s had happened.  In the process our daughter ran out the front door and when my wife tried to go after her my son blocked the way and held her so she couldn’t go after her.  Now that she is home she is furious about the situation - and furious at me because I won’t validate those feelings (I think my son was in the right).  I’m starting to get the - “I can’t live with you or be married to you because you won’t support me” song and dance.  Very frustrating to say the least - but I refuse to get into it with her as I know there is nothing I can say to her to convince her….

[SaltyDawg]

Chief,

I am glad that her psych is on board with it.  My experience with T's they won't make a diagnosis, period, no matter how much prodding I do.  One said 'maybe' [whom I believe may be a recovered borderline herself] just before she ghosted us after my wife started to present many of the symptoms in 'session' after the T pegged me as a narcissist based on my wife's false narrative on me [I based my assumption on her questioning of me when I initially learned about BPD/NPD on the line of questions she had of me and was fixated on me speeding 5 miles over the speed limit, when everyone else was 10-15 over, which she ignored]. 

So, it is my humble opinion, when one is dealing with the borderline, one must have an extremely strong sense of self as you will be going it alone, even if you are faced with obvious symptoms matching the DSM V.  I suspect they don't want them to 'run' which would be the case with the vast majority of them.

With regards to your statement "[she is]furious at me because I won’t validate those feelings (I think my son was in the right).  I’m starting to get the - “I can’t live with you or be married to you because you won’t support me” song and dance."  This is the best way to handle this, you do a partial validation.

Let me explain, you validate her feelings/emotions, but you don't validate her actions.  Start with the SET [Support, Empathy, Truth] communication skill.  In essence you will be modifying the way you communicate with her on a full time basis to minimize her triggers.

Using the example you gave, perhaps word it in the following manner when the next similar incident will likely occur.  "[wife's pet name], I hear you, it is very frustrating that [son's name] prevented you from reaching [daughter's name] when [daughter's name] was distraught when I sensed that all you wanted to do is comfort [daughter's name]."  I know this feels like 'politician speak' where you give an answer that really doesn't address the core issue of the matter, instead you are distracting her by addressing how she feels, and her emotions surrounding it, 'borderlines' think with their emotions, so you need to address or talk to her emotions and not to the more disturbing facts of what just happened of [don't say this, even though I perceive this to be your truth] "D just ran out of the house since she couldn't deal with your issues, and S prevented you from reaching her since D needed her space to process what just happened".

It is important to not criticize her in order or do anything for her to become defensive. If you do this too much there will be contempt and you want to avoid that at all costs. You also do not want to stonewall her which is what you're doing right now by ignoring her on this issue which also generate contempt.

Right now you are stuck between a rock and a hard place - I feel your pain, I have been there many times before, just as I am sure you have too.  Once I realized this dynamic, and my wife would become unhinged in front of the children, I would pull them aside and give them age appropriate tools to deal with mom when she was 'losing it' and would rage at me, or them [I would try to redirect her anger towards me].  I would also forewarn them when she had a bad day, or wasn't feeling well as she was more triggered than normal during those times.

Speaking of your children, how are they?  I know mine suffered immeasurably and each has their own set of issues including hospitalization for several months.  If limited contact is the only thing that is wrong, consider that a blessing in disguise as they have no lasting negative mental health issues.

The best was that I deal with all of this 'crap' is to make time for yourself and do self-care whatever that looks like for you.

Take care.

[Chief Drizzt]

Salty dog - great great advice!  Thanks for sharing it.  I will use the method you suggested when I talk to my wife about this next. 

The kids are pretty distraught over this but they are handling it well.  When I brought up mental illness to them they told me they knew something was up for years and have been trying to deal with it together as best they could.  They were afraid to broach the subject with me.  So why it took me so long to figure out what’s up I’m not sure.  Perhaps it’s because in my former career (military) I was rarely home to notice much.  Every time I came home it was like a honeymoon because I was always gone for so long.  So that might be my issue with being blind to it all these years.  I just feel so bad my kids have been dealing with it for so long without any support for me.  My oldest son has been the one who has walked the younger two through a lot of it.

[SaltyDawg]

Salty dog - great great advice!  Thanks for sharing it.  I will use the method you suggested when I talk to my wife about this next. 

You are welcome.  I know for me, that SET communication is a difficult skill, even though I have been practicing it for a couple of months, I fell flat on my face earlier this morning when I got into a circular loop while using it [my pwBPD recognizes the tool, so you need to adapt when they blow past the distraction talk, you need to change tools frequently or a defense will be applied to it].  Practice with a buddy who knows your situation, before practicing it on your wife.

If you have a brain fart in the heat of the moment just remember this use "I" pronouns, and avoid using "you", "but", and "because", not quite the same, but it reduces the chance of you from blurting out some really hurtful criticism.

Here is a link to a bunch of skills, including SET (1.16) at https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0


The kids are pretty distraught over this but they are handling it well.  When I brought up mental illness to them they told me they knew something was up for years and have been trying to deal with it together as best they could.  They were afraid to broach the subject with me.  So why it took me so long to figure out what’s up I’m not sure.  Perhaps it’s because in my former career (military) I was rarely home to notice much.  Every time I came home it was like a honeymoon because I was always gone for so long.  So that might be my issue with being blind to it all these years.  I just feel so bad my kids have been dealing with it for so long without any support for me.  My oldest son has been the one who has walked the younger two through a lot of it.

Very similar for me, my kids also know it.  My son (11) is exhibiting some of it, my daughter (16) is the caretaker between the two, perhaps not unlike your eldest son.  My kids also did not bring it up with me.  I brought it up with them when I finally figured it out this past June [an individual therapist enlightened me and gave me a book on it].  It took me until September to really start dealing with it.  I too wasn't there for my kids, but I am now, and I am going to bat for them.

I (55) retired early in 2019 when my D had full blown anorexia nervosa and was hospitalized for months in addition to a knee injury.  I have been with my wife for 22 years now We are coming up on our 20-year anniversary. Not only known about BPD not even for the past year.  I too was away, doing similar type stuff you did.  Perhaps a very similar dynamic on why we both missed it for so long.  Don't beat yourself up, I had no clue, as I didn't even know what BPD was until this past June.  Even experts cannot see it, if your pwBPD is a high functioning one like my wife.

However, now that you know what it is.  What are you going to do about it?

I have ...
Family therapy for our son
Couple's Therapy for both of us
Individual Therapy for me
Individual Therapy for her
Group Therapy [here and other websites]
Life Coach Friend who is going through something similar [just recently triangulated against by my wife with our couple's therapist] - my wife shot herself in the foot, and had the couple's T call it an affair, when it is not.
and most importantly "Self-Care" whatever that looks like for you.

lmk if you have any additional questions.

Take care.