First post. BPD Wife: 6yrs, married 2 kids (D1 D3)

[MontieCat59]

Hi all

This is my first post.

I've been with my wife for 6 years now. We had a fantastic first couple of years, which (classic) went way too fast and hard.

We moved in together almost immediately and began traveling. My wife's family are an are extremely wealthy one at that, and my work allows me a lot of freedom to travel and to earn with little time put into it, which I am thankful for every day.

My BPDW was upfront about her illness at the beginning, and was very open to the diagnoses and trauma she had experienced, and was always telling me how much she appreciated how I listened and was empathetic to her situation.

Between 2016 and 2020 there were certainly times where she would have manic / psychosis episodes - and like a deer in headlights with no experience of such episodes from anyone else in my life, i internalized them as being my fault (cause I'm to blame for her health etc)

Fast forward to the last three years of hell. After our first child was born, which was just as Covid was starting, this is when things, and have progressively gotten worse since this inflection point.

A week these days consist of:

1. 100s or even 1000s of manic texts, telling me that im the one to blame for everything including:

- I've stolen her life from her

- I don't support her work (she's an unpublished "writer" and has never had a real job, although the work is really good)

- I don't support her at all at the house or with the kids and she's "raising them alone" (I work about 5-7hrs a week at the moment, with a few work trips a year which take up about 3-4wks total)

- Im unreliable and constantly "mess with" her "schedule" (she has no schedule, and is consistently incapable of creating nor sticking to one)

- I've stolen all her inheritance money from her (she's a reckless spender on expensive luxury items  and I am the one who pays all the bills, childcare, school, mortgage etc)

- I'm an emotionally abusive manipulative person (I'll admit that I have  blown up a dozen or so  times before and said some horrible things in response to really insane moments, usually when she pushes me into those places when we're in the car, or somewhere where I can't just take 5 mins to cool down)

The list could go on.

2. Constant phone calls with the same vitriol.

3. Threats of divorce (I moved out about 4 months ago to take space, and now shes moving toward divorce threats)
 
4. Slandering me to her friends and family, claiming I'm the abuser (I document all phone calls and interactions now, and capture screenshots of our texts in response to this

5. Constant "impossible situations" or "double binds" - essentially she will give me two bad options in which both create a poor outcome for me or her. If the outcome is poor for her, she will leverage it the next day or the next week, and say it was my fault.
Example. Today I came to the house at 7am to take the kids. She immediately started subtly emotionally abusing me in front of the kids (manipulating and gaslighting) which I stood up against and said "hey, is there another way you could frame what you're saying? It seems like you're upset about something and I'm not going to take this from you". She then blew up and started shouting and screaming about how I was in fact abusing her in that moment. She then told me I needed to leave the house or she would call the police. I promptly left and then I started getting 100s of texts saying "you should be here, looking after the kids instead your abandoning your family. I had to cancel all my appointments because you couldn't show up in a good way, not my whole day and week is PLEASE READed because of you..." so on and so forth.

-----//

It's basically a rinse and repeat of  this almost every day now.

My kids are being exposed to some of the most toxic stuff I've ever experienced.

I also got a message from a friend that shows she's on a dating app. She has also been seeing a "friend" who is clearly not just a "friend".

I'm completely emotionally drained. My therapists think I should get out. I'm trying to figure out a way to leave at the moment where I can get custody of kids, but I know that would 1. Completely crush her and 2. Her family would fight to the teeth for the kids and put as much capital as needed (they're out to lunch)

Completely stuck...

[Tangled mangled]

Hi MontieCat,
Just want to welcome you to this forum. Sorry to hear the circumstances that have led  you here.

I am sure the more sage members of this community will have more advice to offer soon but just want you to know that you are truly heard here and not alone.

Sounds like a really tough time for you and your family. A few questions do pop up while reading your post:

1) Your children are both infants- has your wife been seen by a mental health professional, is it possible that in addition to Bpd, she could be experiencing post natal depression/psychosis.  

2) I might have missed it in your post: have you had legal advice to protect yourself


3) In addition to keeping records of texts and emails, will it help to keep you and the children safe by having your encounters recorded in videos.
As a female currently separating from a male uBpd , I was advised by the police to have episodes video recorded. My ex was arrested twice in the last year of our marriage for actual DV and threats of DV but wasn’t charged as I didn’t have evidence or adult witnesses. You can go step further by having a concealed body camera on you , for your safety.

4) She will do everything to make you react, so be careful not to respond, pwbpd are expert manipulators. It might help to limit communication with her to just written messages ( again this serves as proof) and avoid direct verbal communication in the meantime.

5) Childcare: is it possible to have a witness present whenever you have to pick/drop off the children. The situation is quite volatile and exaggerated false accusations are not uncommon amongst pwbpd.

6) Self care- it’s really helpful that you are in therapy and are not living together with your wife- what I can see here is a lot of reactive abuse. The pwbpd will bait you into arguments and conflicts and care very little about the impact of this on their children. It’s important you stay present and aware of what she’s doing. Seek medical attention for your mental health if you haven’t already done so.

 Continue to reach out on this forum and take care of yourself

[ForeverDad]

I agree this is so hard for you to deal with.  The prior post had many good points.  Many others will chime in with their suggestions and peer support soon.  From now on be very careful that you keep control over your vents.  She can't stop herself but you can and should.  You seem to be heading toward divorce and it is especially take care to never even appear to lose your cool that could be interpreted by the professionals as poor behaviors or damaging to your parenting prospects.

It seems she became more out-of-control with her emotions and venting after the arrival of the children?  That's what happened with me.  I too wondered whether it was post-partum depression.  But the poor behaviors didn't stop, they just worsened more and more.  I had to concede it was just a higher level of conflict and discord that had been triggered.  She would even threaten to disappear with our toddler and I'd never find them.

Finally I realized that I had to protect both myself and my parenting.  In her mind she had all the authority and I had none.  Surprise to her, family court is the Real Authority.  Not that it sided with me, at least at first.  But at least in its eyes I was not a Total Zero nor an Ogre nor an Abuser as she insisted.

It is vital you document the bad behaviors.  (Warning: do not tell her this, it will only make things worse. You have right to privacy and confidentiality in this and in counseling and with lawyers.)  Your journals, emails, texts, calendars, etc can remain private but they're vital resources to which you can refer later when you need to cite specific dates and details of incidents.  Court typically ignores as hearsay vague claims such as "he always..." or "she always..." but the details from your documentation is credible.  (Sadly, many court ignore incidents as legally stale that are older than six months before filing a case in court.)

Court may not pay much attention at first but when the conflict never lessens then it might have the professionals around the court, such as a Custody Evaluator, dig deeper into finding solutions.  Around here we always advocate... you spouse will be the one creating conflict, obstructions and sabotage but you must be the one proposing and advocating solutions.  It may take time for court and its associated professionals to notice you're advocating solutions, but eventually it will, albeit too slowly.

My local court defaulted to a "standard" mother-preferred parenting order to start, despite my spouse being charged with Threat of DV.  The divorce lasted two years since my then-spouse tried to keep her preferential order as long as she could.  I was alternate weekend dad at first but walked out of the divorce with equal time.  Over the years afterward I got better and better orders.  Slow going, but it was better than our kid's mother being totally uncontrolled.

As for the in-laws, it doesn't have to be a war, though to them they may see it as blood thicker than water and take sides.  Do they realize their daughter's mental health issues or are they a concern too?  You can emphasize that you're doing what is necessary to remain an involved parent.  You're not taking the children away so much as you're ensuring they have the best possible parenting as much of the childhood as possible.

You would do well to find an experienced and very respected counselor ASAP, even before you try to find your spouse help too.  (Your spouse should find a therapist too but quite likely she will refuse, so many people with BPD (pwBPD) are deep into total Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting.)  While counselors and therapists usually refuse to testify directly in court, not wanting to have lawsuits or complaints to licensing boards, they will share and discuss their patients with a court's Custody Evaluator or Guardian ad Litem (GAL, children's lawyer).  A roundabout way is better than none, right?

Odds are, unless your spouse is seen as a serious danger to the children, they won't "take away" her contact with the children.  So her current fear is unrealistic.  However, the court's temp custody and parent order will define the limits to each parent's scope of responsibilities as to custody and parenting time.  That means you WILL get some time with your children.  That will trigger her immensely, how dare she not control you every minute and everything else too.

The best advice I can share with you is to do your best to prepare well, get good personal counseling, get an experienced proactive lawyer who is very very experienced taking tough cases in family court - you need more than a forms filer and hand holder.  Then do your best to get the best (or "least bad") temp order possible.  Mine was a two year divorce (most divorces described here are 1-2 years or sometimes longer) and neither the court nor the lawyers were interested in improving the terms and fixing the issues that arose midways since "it was only temporary".  Temporary?  Hah!  It was two agonizing years.

As for her turning her attention to her new "friend" be aware that most states, if you're in the USA, ignore infidelity issues, they don't care about her adult relationships.  Family or domestic court is there to unwind the marriage (often near the end of the case) and decide how to address custody and parenting matters going forward.

Needless to say, this is your safe place.  Do not share this site or its comments with her, ever.  Always log out when stepping away or leaving.  It is confidential and private peer support for you.  Just as you would not share your lawyer's legal advice and strategies.  You don't want to enable her to obstruct and sabotage you any more than she already is doing.

[GaGrl]

To ensure your documentation regarding your W's dysfunctionality is fully considered for custody, a parenting evaluation and/or GAL may be needed.

[jaded7]

From now on be very careful that you keep control over your vents.  She can't stop herself but you can and should. 


It is vital you document the bad behaviors.  (Warning: do not tell her this, it will only make things worse. You have right to privacy and confidentiality in this and in counseling and with lawyers.)  Your journals, emails, texts, calendars, etc can remain private but they're vital resources to which you can refer later when you need to cite specific dates and details of incidents.  Court typically ignores as hearsay vague claims such as "he always..." or "she always..." but the details from your documentation is credible.  (Sadly, many court ignore incidents as legally stale that are older than six months before filing a case in court.)


You would do well to find an experienced and very respected counselor ASAP, even before you try to find your spouse help too.  (Your spouse should find a therapist too but quite likely she will refuse, so many people with BPD (pwBPD) are deep into total Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting.)  While counselors and therapists usually refuse to testify directly in court, not wanting to have lawsuits or complaints to licensing boards, they will share and discuss their patients with a court's Custody Evaluator or Guardian ad Litem (GAL, children's lawyer).  A roundabout way is better than none, right?

I concur with the controlling your reactions, because they will then use those against you. It is incredibly hard to not react, I know this. This is a very common problem here on the boards, using your reactions against you as 'proof' that you are an abuser.

Also, the therapy, as well as posting here, will be a good place to get validation that something is not right, and it is not your fault. We all struggle with thinking we did something wrong, weren't good enough for our partner...because that's what they tell us.

[ForeverDad]

Throughout our posts you will notice we often refer to a "Splitting" handbook to prepare for and handle the difficult times in divorce court as we stand up and defend ourselves against typical false allegations, obstructions and sabotages that are all too predictable.

That's why we need to be careful not to share what we learn nor the needed strategies or else we could enable the other to sabotage us and our goals.  If we were still trying to repair the relationship, then we would share our lives in expectation of drawing the couple together.  Sadly, if the spouse is uncooperative and resists improving his/her perceptions and behaviors, then as divorce starts looming, our priorities must change... our focus shifts to protect ourselves, our futures and most especially our children's futures.

William Eddy wrote in his "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder (2021)" book that it is wisest to get confidential consultations from multiple lawyers.  If you meet with just one, you may not discern whether it is an experienced and proactive one with time-tested strategies and capable of handling difficult court cases.

William Eddy wrote in his "Splitting" divorce book that it is wisest to get consultations from multiple lawyers.  If you meet with just one, you may not discern whether it is an experienced and proactive one with time-tested strategies.

Splitting emphasizes not just any lawyer is up to the task ahead.  Many are excellent for simpler cases if all that is needed is forms filing and hand holding.  While you may not find a lawyer with a shingle stating "I handle Borderline cases", when interviewing several and hearing their experience and possible strategies, you should get a feel for a short list of both experienced and proactive attorneys.  I recall that an apt question could be, "If you were facing a very high conflict divorce case like mine, who would you choose to represent you?"  That too can help narrow whom to choose.

There is a lot of education for tools, skills and whatnot here.  Browse our Tools and Skills workshops board here.

[elmtree]

After joining here about three weeks ago, it blows my mind to see parallels between my situation and what others are describing.  One thing I’ve realized is that it’s impossible to convince a person with BPD that you’re right, and it’s not worth engaging in arguments, but that’s where our mental health suffers. I can’t say enough about how helpful therapy has been for me, especially not knowing about BPD prior to this, and helping to make sense of everything that has gone on over the last two years.

[ForeverDad]

After joining here about three weeks ago, it blows my mind to see parallels between my situation and what others are describing.  One thing I’ve realized is that it’s impossible to convince a person with BPD that you’re right, and it’s not worth engaging in arguments, but that’s where our mental health suffers. I can’t say enough about how helpful therapy has been for me, especially not knowing about BPD prior to this, and helping to make sense of everything that has gone on over the last two years.

It's almost as thought the person with BPD (on this pondering/separating board the less oppositional sort is not as common) has a BPD 101 score book that they all utilize.

Reasoning and explaining won't work despite our good intentions, definitely in the triggered moments and often even later when things are calmer.  A general rule of thumb is to let go hopes of JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) and instead use BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm) or DEARMAN, SET, etc.  These are explained on our Tools & Skills Workshops board.

Sometimes we use the terms counseling and therapy interchangeably.  That's okay, no need to nitpick, we all need some level of help, right?  However, I usually say the counseling (informing and educating) is for us reasonably normal persons and therapy (modifying perceptions and acting-out hurtful behaviors) is for those needing deeper and more intensive guidance.  I view it as a difference between our situational distress versus a pwBPD's internal issues.

[LionGame]

Hello MontieCat59

5. Constant "impossible situations" or "double binds" - essentially she will give me two bad options in which both create a poor outcome for me or her. If the outcome is poor for her, she will leverage it the next day or the next week, and say it was my fault.
Example. Today I came to the house at 7am to take the kids. She immediately started subtly emotionally abusing me in front of the kids (manipulating and gaslighting) which I stood up against and said "hey, is there another way you could frame what you're saying? It seems like you're upset about something and I'm not going to take this from you". She then blew up and started shouting and screaming about how I was in fact abusing her in that moment. She then told me I needed to leave the house or she would call the police. I promptly left and then I started getting 100s of texts saying "you should be here, looking after the kids instead your abandoning your family. I had to cancel all my appointments because you couldn't show up in a good way, not my whole day and week is PLEASE READed because of you..." so on and so forth.

I do hate these double bind situations, so many times I went for a drive because it felt my head explodes when her verbal bashing begans. And phone rings, and beeps in the next seat non stop...

Otherwise your situation and behaviour of your spouse sound like exact copy of mine. Cannot really help you, as I'm in the same position, even a bit more dangerous one as I really started to prepare for breaking up. This been a very good place to read and get support from these helpful people, I've visited here since 2016 when I had my first uBPD girlfriend, I thought I wouldn't fell for the same trick again but now I'm here again but with 2 year old kid..

For your situation, as they said me in one helpline where I called "there is no one right time for divorce or to separate, pick a time and it's as bad as any other one. And these things rarely get better when you wait"

Btw, if you fear crushing her, she will eventually crush you if you dont prepare. You do the recording sometimes and listen afterwards those toxic situations, personally when I do that I feel physically nauseated and some of the emphathy disappears.

-Lion

[ForeverDad]

5... I stood up against and said "hey, is there another way you could frame what you're saying? It seems like you're upset about something and I'm not going to take this from you". She then blew up and started shouting and screaming about how I was in fact abusing her in that moment. She then told me I needed to leave the house or she would call the police. I promptly left and then I started getting 100s of texts saying "you should be here, looking after the kids instead your abandoning your family. I had to cancel all my appointments because you couldn't show up in a good way, not my whole day and week is #$%&ed because of you..." so on and so forth.

For your situation, as they said me in one helpline where I called "there is no one right time for divorce or to separate, pick a time and it's as bad as any other one. And these things rarely get better when you wait"

Btw, if you fear crushing her, she will eventually crush you if you don't prepare. You do the recording sometimes and listen afterwards those toxic situations, personally when I do that I feel physically nauseated and some of the empathy disappears.

"if you don't prepare" then yes if you select just any time to change things then you'll have little assurance you'll get a better outcome.

Agreed, there will probably never be "no one right time" but you can prepare.  Counseling sessions help.  Peer support such as here helps too, hearing which approaches and strategies usually work and which ones usually don't.  Interviewing family law attorneys and selecting one who is proactive, has solid strategies and is experienced in courtroom struggles is crucial.  (We need more than a forms filer and a hand holder.)

I recorded my then-spouse in various rant, rages and threats, most of which never saw the light of day in court.  I didn't taunt her by recording in her face, but I felt I needed proof I wasn't the aggressive or abusive one.  So I had recorded when she threatened my life and I called the emergency line, two officers responded.  Of course she was still hugely angry with me but claimed I was the problem person.  One officer asked me to hand my quietly sobbing preschooler over to his mother and "step away", he shrieked and clung closer to me, I shrugged to the officer and as they left I was told to "work it out".  Later when I belatedly selected my divorce lawyer, a former police officer, he told me it is standard to resolve the immediate incident by separating the disputing couple and by default I would have been carted away.  It was only afterward that I was able to copy my recording to disc that I was able to make a police report.  She was charged with Threat of DV which eventually didn't go anywhere but it helped strengthen me in terms of my standing up for myself and setting a little better boundaries.

What stunned me was that the courts can have two concepts of a parent, that a parent can be liable for very poor adult behaviors (with me) and yet see no connection to parenting ability (with our child).  That's a legal world for which I was unprepared, in that way I needed legal guidance... and William Eddy's essential "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder".  Even if you weren't married, the concepts, alerts and strategies there apply to the custody and parenting issues too.

[livednlearned]

I'm trying to figure out a way to leave at the moment where I can get custody of kids, but I know that would 1. Completely crush her and 2. Her family would fight to the teeth for the kids and put as much capital as needed

Have you consulted with an attorney?

There isn't really such a thing as getting "custody of kids." It's much more nuanced than that. Essentially, the family law system bears witness to what's happening in the relationship. It goes from being about you and your ex to what is happening here to the kids and who is the safest parent (while preserving relationships with both parents).

It's complicated.

Best to consult with an attorney and find out how things work where you live.

Until that happens, most of what we think about how custody works is based on movies and make-believe.

[ForeverDad]

This is my first post...

I'm trying to figure out a way to leave at the moment where I can get custody of kids, but I know that would 1. Completely crush her and 2. Her family would fight to the teeth for the kids and put as much capital as needed...

You've had many responses since this post, perhaps your view of the above has adjusted?  What I want to highlight here is that both points you listed deal with others, not you, not the children.

First, you need a better perspective.  The children's mother is an adult, courts will view her, more or less, as able to stand on her own two feet.  Court will not expect you to fix her, actually court doesn't try to fix people either, it just deals with them as they are.  You would be wise to have the same perspective.

You may have concerns for the children's mother, but does she reciprocate?  Likely in a custody struggle she will perceive everything as though it is a "war".  You don't, you see it as seeking the best for the children.  Accept that there is a vast chasm of goals and methods that you cannot undo by reasoning and logic.

So what do you do?  Your priority must be to yourself and your own protection.  Remember the warning at the start of every flight?  "In the event of an emergency, put on your own oxygen mask first before helping others."  You can't help your children if you're not taking care of yourself first.

Second, there is only so much you can do to influence her family.  Just best to do the right things as best you can, then proceed with what you have to do to be an involved and caring parent.