Should I end things?

[CinnamonsMom]

Hello all,
Here is some background. Thirty years ago I met a man in my workplace (I will call him David). I was married, and so was he. We had an a affair which I am not proud of, but I fell deeply in love. As I got to know him, it was clear that something wasn’t right. The relationship was wonderful and tumultuous at the same time. I began reading the DSM (this was pre-Internet) and became convinced that he was a person with BPD. The relationship ended when he left the job and we didn’t see each other any longer. It was clear he was angry with me for not choosing him and after he left he even tried to get me fired from my job by making up lies to my coworkers, for which he eventually apologized.

Despite my feelings for him, I would have never left my husband because (1) I was ashamed of what I was doing and I was raised better than that (2) I did love my husband who was a kind and gentle man and (3) I could see so many red flags that I knew we couldn’t make a relationship work in the long term.

Over those years we’ve emailed a few times and had one platonic lunch about 22 years ago. There has been nothing physical between us since 1999.  I’ve always dreamt of him, but always knew I made the right choice. My husband never knew of the affair, or if he did, he didn’t let on. My husband was the kindest, nicest, most even-keeled man one could ever meet. He was absolutely the total opposite of David.

A few months ago, my husband passed away. We were married for 34 years and the loss was devastating.  David knew my husband and I eventually called to tell him he had passed. David had been through two marriages and two divorces. Following his second divorce he was living with a woman for many years, but she had moved out three years ago. So he and I were both single now. We agreed to get together for lunch. I knew it was probably a mistake, but I wanted to see him so badly.

We had a lovely lunch and as we said goodbye and hugged, the hug turned into a most unexpected and powerful kiss. It was truly the thing romance novels are made of. We began texting and talking on the phone, both of us complaining of exceedingly messy homes that needed to be cleaned before we could get together in person.  The phone conversations went on for hours. Things couldn’t have been better. And then suddenly everything changed. We had a conversation about the ending of our relationship years ago, and he suddenly became angry, despondent, and unwilling to talk with me. He told me he was depressed. He said he must’ve repressed the memory of how badly he treated me years ago. He said I should get out of the relationship because he was obviously bad news. He wouldn’t speak with me for a couple of days.  He scheduled a lunch and then canceled it explaining it to be due to some medical problems he’s having. He invited me to dinner and to spend the night (which we had never done in the past) and canceled it. He began to complain about the length of our phone calls when they went on for more than 20 minutes. He began turning everything around, saying that this was all because of me.  It was shocking because we were having so much fun and it just turned on a dime. Suddenly I remembered how much I cried years ago. How much I hurt because I couldn’t please him. I should add that the lunch and kiss were only two weeks ago today. And the excitement and enthusiasm, which suddenly turned to anger and blame, happened in the span of the past 14 days.

We are both well-educated and intelligent people. I am not clingy and do not have any expectations. However, I now find myself trying to clarify our relationship because it’s suddenly all over the place. When I do this, it is makes me come across as needy and dependent when in reality I’m just confused. The little voice inside my otherwise very logical head is telling me to run for the hills. However, I’ve loved this man for 30 years. We are both available for each other. The relationship with him is the first thing that has replaced the grieving for my husband. I was so happy and having so much fun… At least for a week!

David has never been officially diagnosed with BPD as far as I know. However, I have read so much material on BPD that I am 100% certain that he is a person with BPD. He fits every description and everything I read has me saying “yes, yes, yes.”He has told me he was raised by two parents who never wanted anything to do with him. He hardly ever saw either of them, and his nanny was the one who primarily took care of him. I think he idolized his distant father, who died when David was a teenager. His mother lived to be quite old and he said he hated her. He said, neither of them ever showed him any love and basically abandoned him as a child.

So here’s my dilemma. Do I leave this relationship knowing that it will always be like this – a roller coaster of ups and downs with probably a lot more downs than ups. Or do I stay because I’m madly in love with him? And why am I madly in love with someone who makes me feel so horrible; someone who tells me everything that’s wrong with me; someone who twists my statements to make it look like I’m the one who’s difficult? I’ve read so much about BPD that I know how I’m supposed to treat him. I’ve tried to be understanding, joke about things before they get too serious, praise him for the good things he does and realize that he’s got a lot of hurt deep down so I need to be careful not to hurt any further with my words, even if I’m just teasing him.  Yet he withholds and withholds and withholds. At the moment he’s not speaking to me again, and I really don’t know why. Communicating by text and phone is part of the problem, but he keeps canceling our in person get together‘s that he has arranged.

How does one walk away from a person they’ve loved for 30 years?  And why do I feel like I’ve screwed it up when I don’t even know what I’ve done? I don’t want to hurt like this but I know if he calls I’ll want to take call.  I’m an otherwise strong, level-headed women who has been turned into an insecure wimp by this man yet again and still, I can’t walk away.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[M604V]

Wow. I can’t get a full response together right this moment but wow.

This pushes so many buttons for me. Tomorrow should be the 20th wedding anniversary to the only woman with whom I’ve ever experienced real love. Except we divorced 16 years ago.

We recently reconnected following the sad and premature death of our dear friend. Nothing in person, just text. And no plans or attempts to take it further. But it’s obvious that there’s still a flicker of a flame in there. And, like you, there’s a part of my brain saying RUN.

But I can’t. I can, I guess, but I don’t want to. I want to touch the stove over and over and I don’t care if I get burned.

Thanks for sharing. I’ll try and write more later.

[kells76]

Hi CinnamonsMom, welcome to the group! You're in a place that understands the rollercoaster of emotions often associated with being in a relationship with a pwBPD.

Like M604V mentioned, the "push-pull" dynamic can be more the rule than the exception in a BPD relationship. Even when we have learned many of the non-intuitive communication tools and skills, those aren't magic wands that change the pwBPD (though more effective communication can make the relationship more do-able).

The part that really stood out to me in your post is here:

So here’s my dilemma. Do I leave this relationship knowing that it will always be like this – a roller coaster of ups and downs with probably a lot more downs than ups. Or do I stay because I’m madly in love with him? And why am I madly in love with someone who makes me feel so horrible; someone who tells me everything that’s wrong with me; someone who twists my statements to make it look like I’m the one who’s difficult? I’ve read so much about BPD that I know how I’m supposed to treat him. I’ve tried to be understanding, joke about things before they get too serious, praise him for the good things he does and realize that he’s got a lot of hurt deep down so I need to be careful not to hurt any further with my words, even if I’m just teasing him.  Yet he withholds and withholds and withholds. At the moment he’s not speaking to me again, and I really don’t know why. Communicating by text and phone is part of the problem, but he keeps canceling our in person get together‘s that he has arranged.

As you think through what direction you want to go, that part in bold seems crucial to understand.

What would it be like to allow yourself some breathing room to pause before deciding "yes I'm in / no I'm out"? And in that breathing room, to talk with a therapist or counselor for a bit? Getting that neutral, third-party feedback could be really helpful in understanding what's drawing you to "David".

No pwBPD is "all bad". Members join and stay in BPD relationships for many reasons, and each pwBPD is unique and can have wonderful qualities. Talking with a professional can help you sort out the pros and cons of this possible relationship.

You've just experienced a huge loss in life, too  I wonder if bringing that up with a therapist could help give clarity.

Glad you felt ready to share and talk. Let us know your thoughts, and again, welcome;

kells76

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi CinnamonsMom-

Welcome to the boards.  I’m very sorry for the recent loss of your beloved husband.  Please note, I do believe it is possible to deeply love your husband while simultaneously holding love for another over the years.

One thing to perhaps pay attention to, is that due to the very recent passing of your husband, your grief is so fresh…and likely incredibly painful.  34 years is a long time.  And despite the fact that your feelings for David were intense years ago, you chose your husband and your marriage. 

In times of deep grief, we may search for things to lift that heavy burden, just a little - Bits of joy to provide even momentary relief.  And I believe when what we thought would be joyful moments lead to more heartache and confusion, our grief may actually be heightened.  I’m so sorry.

This may be a time for you to simply allow yourself to move through your grieving process without worrying too much about David’s behaviors.  What I mean is sometimes it’s better to simply take a pause and do nothing.  Be still and Just breathe… Try and take care of yourself, spend time with people who don’t make you question yourself or your motives.  If you’d like, perhaps communicate to David in writing that you’d like to see him when he’s ready, and let him take it from there.

There may be times where he’s focused on the past and his bad behavior toward you; while other times he’s focused on your *bad* behavior toward him (i.e. you didn’t *choose* him 30 years ago), so his fear of you leaving him again could be behind his behavior. 

Either way, learning and utilizing the communication Tools available on this site may be helpful for you.  A good place to begin is learning NOT to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain).  These methods take some practice, but they do work very well.

I apologize for rambling…my words are kind of tumbling out wrong and I hope I’m making some sense.

At any rate, I’m glad you’ve found us and I encourage you to keep posting as you work through your thoughts and feelings.  In time, you’ll be better able to determine what and who it is that you want in your life…and to what extent.  You’re safe here.

Warmly,
Gems

[CinnamonsMom]

Thank you all for the kind words. I think you are right, Gems. It was perhaps too soon to become involved with anyone and I should’ve grieved my husband alone rather than using someone else to mask the pain. I think the resources on this site will be a great help to better understand BPD.

Although it may sound like I need therapy, I’m doing OK save from my confusion over his behavior. I’m not really a therapy type of person. In fact, I’m typically a pretty private person, although you wouldn’t know it by my long posting.

I do find it incredibly helpful to read others experiences. It makes me realize I am not alone. Thank you all.

[Cat Familiar]

You’ve experienced exactly what the draw and dysfunction is with BPD relationships. The intermittent reinforcement is often compared with playing a slot machine. Predominantly there are losses, yet the occasional random wins keep us playing.

I had a similar, but very different circumstance. I met my current husband when I was still married to another BPD husband who was abusive. The man I’m married to now was one of our circle of friends, and none of them knew about my ex-husband’s verbal and physical abuse—I kept that tightly under wraps.

Though he was single at the time and I was married, we’d shared a moment (nothing happened) but it was a mutual non-verbal understanding that if circumstances were different, we’d be together.

Later he was married when I wasn’t. And some point beyond that he reached out to me, as by then we were living in different areas, and we were both single.

At first, it was the relationship of my dreams. But invisible, then not-so-invisible cracks started to form. I ignored evidence to the contrary, wishing to keep my fantasy…until I couldn’t.

Finally I had to come to terms with having married yet another man with BPD. He, unlike my ex, is kind, responsible, and a decent human being…but there’s that damned BPD that shows up now and then. I’ve learned to deal with it, and at this point, it’s no longer a problem, but the spell has totally broken.

He’s really an OK kind of guy, but I didn’t want OK. I wanted that romantic fantasy of who I thought he really was. And it was just a fantasy. But it was a beautiful fantasy.