Is Mother Daughter Conflict a Given?

[Turkish]

Our D12 has been having major issues with her mom, uBPDx who left when D was 1 and our son had just turned 4.

There was an issue when D was 10, but counseling didn't help though it kind of died down. Recently, it got bad in that D12 was openly telling her mom that she hated her. Mom called me, crying in frustration, to take D for a week. After the break, they seem to be getting along.

I ran into yet another mother today who told me that mother-daughter conflict was common and a "thing." I've talked to mothers who've told me that they were glad that they only had boys. Back in the 80s, when my mom was friends with other single mothers with daughters, my mom told me how the daughters would change at 11. My mom's solution was to be harder on them, naturally *eyeroll*

Is this a thing you've experienced, and what do daughters of BPD mothers think? I ran across this article today.

https://www.rosjke.com/the-emotional-crisis-between-mothers-and-daughters/#:~:text=Mother%2Ddaughter%20relationship%20conflict%20is,difficult%20relationship%20with%20their%20mother

[Notwendy]

I don't agree with that author. It's one opinion.

Adolescents have the task of forming their own identity. They know they are "not their parents"- they are their own person,  but they don't know who they are exactly- so they may go through different ideas- clothing, music, hairstyles- that are "not their parent". For a teen girl- this could involve a form of "rejecting" the mother in some way. I think it takes an emotionally secure mother to get through this stage- and a mother who has the emotional maturity to not react in a hurtful way. Teen need boundaries but the boundaries change as they mature.

Emotional maturity, a sense of self, and boundaries are areas of difficulty with BPD.

This idea of teen age mother daughter issues is especially concerning to me because BPD mother "explained" our relationship that way at the time, and also implies it's a stage and it was due to my being a teen ager- taking any accountability away from her. My being a teen was the reason and it was assumed I'd get over it.

Sometimes it is the teen who has the issues- a teen may have a disorder, or troublesome behaviors. Or it may be situational- the teen is doing fine at school and elsewhere- but not at home- then one has to look at what is going on at home. It's not usual for a "troublesome teen" to be making straight A's at school like your D is. I did well in school too. Behaviors like promiscuity or drugs, or rule breaking- these didn't happen either. Yet somehow according to my mother, we had a "mother-daughter" teen age problem.

I experienced this from the parent perspective too. Yes, there were times my own teen D had me in tears- the moodiness, the rejecting of my ideas- like if I bought her something to wear, she didn't like it, or if I said something she'd roll her eyes. But who is the adult in this relationship- me- and this behavior isn't about me but my own child trying to decide who she was. The basics were in place- good grades, friends at school, no delinquent behavior. Boundaries were still there but I had to adjust them to this new stage. This is that "normal teen conflict" my mother was referring to, but it was qualitatively different from the situation with my own BPD mother.

The other side of this is that I got to experience what being a "normal" teen is from observing her- something I didn't experience. My teen could "push back" at me in this process because she wasn't afraid of me. I may have felt hurt feelings but I didn't respond with verbal or emotional abuse. My teen wasn't parentified- she wasn't responsible for my feelings. She didn't come home from school wondering what kind of mood I would be in.

If my relationship with my mother was due to "mother -daughter" teen conflict- then I should have "outgrown it". In that case, the issues would be resolved. I feel I tried. I assumed the blame for the relationship and have tried to establish a better one as an adult but she still has BPD. She is still emotionally and verbally abusive as she was when I was a teen.

Explaining what went on at home when I was a teen as a "teen age mother-daugher conflict" was invalidating and put the reason on me. It also hid the chaos and emotionally abusive behaviors that were going on at the time.

[Notwendy]

I meant to say - unusual for a teen with significant behavior issues to be well behaved at school making good grades.

[Pook075]

I do not agree with the author and I do not feel there was any basis for an argument there other than the author's personal experiences.  That's the world we live in today though, as the author repeatedly said, "Far too many..." without giving any basis behind it.  It's sensationalizing a topic that may or may not be true.

[Notwendy]

I felt responsible for the « mother daughter «  conflict and truly hoped to improve the relationship - assumed all responsibility for it- tried so hard to be « good enough” maybe if I could be good enough to fix it.

. Basically if I make myself available - she sees me as useful to her. I have no expectations of her.
 
People say “forgive her”- I have. I don’t hold her accountable for anything - it’s just not worth mentioning.

The shame and sense of failure is real. I’ve been blamed for something I wasn’t responsible for in the first place. As a teen I was embarrassed and afraid that if someone knew about my mother they’d not want to be my friend.

Turkish- your D is 12. She’s an A student. What she’s experiencing may not be « normal conflict »

[GaGrl]

I was in my early teens when I really came up against my mother's limitations. Although she had several BPD-like traits, most of her dysfunctional city came from early trauma (losing her mother at age 4) and subsequently being poorly parented by a uBPD/NPD stepmother.

I was frequently invalidated. I could not trust my mother to listen and accept me as I was. She and I did not have a relationship in which I could confide and share. I spent my teen years learning to hide my thoughts, wishes, activities, beliefs from her.

Turkish, do you see any of this beginning to happen with your daughter?

[Turkish]

I've been checking in with D12 when I see her, and I saw her more as I took the kids to both dental and ortho appointments two days last week (my schedule is more flex and I can do more WFH, so no problem). D says it's OK now.

There may be a listening thing here. Over a month ago, D complained that mommy didn't listen to her that she needed time to do homework, but instead took them out to eat one night, and another night to them to grandma's which is noisy with nowhere to study. I mentioned what D said and her mom minimized it. Whether or not what D wants is legit, or maybe over complaining, her feelings are real, so D feels invalidated, "mommy doesn't listen to me." I had them until 6PM Friday and will pick her up from school tomorrow at 230PM and I'll ask how things are. It's now my week except for the Wednesday switch day.

It's a good point made about a 4.0 student with no behavioral problems at school juxtaposed with what sometimes goes on at home. D12 thinks the fights and social media bullying at school is stupid as well.

[Notwendy]

I don't know how it is in your situation but saying something to my BPD mother isn't effective and her response is to minimize it. If it makes any difference- my BPD mother still doesn't "listen" to me but to describe it- she doesn't perceive "me"-  the "me" that is an individual and also boundaries.

What I see your D saying isn't a complaint or over complaining. She's 12- she perceives something but doesn't have a way to express it. "Mommy doesn't listen to me" is her way of saying her mother doesn't perceive her as an individual with her own needs and feelings.

Asking for time to do homework isn't an unreasonable request. What your D is saying is that she cares about her school performance and needs time to work on her assignment. Her mother isn't just not listening to her. She is dismissing something important to your D. She is choosing her own wishes over those of her D.

This is the shift in the relationship with a teen child. The teen is becoming more autonomous and the parent needs to be discerning about when to let go and give them some more self direction. This depends on the request and their behavior. If your D watched TV instead of doing homework- then she isn't ready for the concession, but it sounds like your D is doing homework- and this is a reasonable request. If her mother didn't feel like cooking dinner and wanted to go out to eat- she could instead change course and order take out- win win for both.

It also seems that this isn't a one time thing but often- BPD mother taking the kids out instead of staying home where D can do homework and so this could be more problematic.

Younger kids are less autonomous and so have to do what their parents choose for them. Teen begin to make their own choices but still need parental boundaries. The parent shouldn't give them too much autonomy but also not too little. It's not always clear how to navigate this. On your part- hear your D out. If she's truly finding it hard to do homework during her time with her mother- how can something be worked out so she has this time?