>10 year old son !

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So my oldest is now 10 years old and we have now had over 12 months separation from his ubpd dad - whom he has limited contact with over holidays and video calls during the weekends.

In the early days of our separation from his dad- there were severe outbursts and outright rage and hostility. I tried to handle things as best as I could but I’ll give myself 3/10 as I mostly tried to match his toxic energy and gave like for like.

Our relationship has improved over the course of 16 months and the outbursts are rare in occurrence- I think what changed was my approach to parenting- being more empathetic and separating my son’s behaviour from that of his dad even though they were quite identical- I’m talking pushing my buttons constantly even in public, making nasty comments, gaslighting me and the relentless negativity.

All that has changed but now I’m dealing with a 10 year old who is slowly crafting a victim narrative about himself- mainly at school.

I acknowledge that the area we live in is a step down from where we lived in the family home, the living conditions are poorer and general outlook on life in this part of the country is strange.
But I feel like my son has figured out that he can get me to do his bidding . For the past three months, almost every week I get called aside by his teacher because he has had a scuffle with another child- usually one of his friends. It’s usually someone else’s fault too.

The school’s take on things has not been helpful as they think he’s too immature for his age- he’s one of the tallest but youngest in his class and likely has ADHD. They have not fully explored the support his meant to have, their MO seems to be blame shifting.

That aside I feel he creates most of  this drama at school as distraction for the fact that he’s not doing his school work as expected. We have discussed several times he can do to avoid conflict with his classmates but he’s not willing to take advice.

The drama has also increased at home- sucking the peace  out of our lives because he will not listen or follow instructions. Also showing signs of regression , whinging and making sounds/ fake crying like a toddler.

Last week I reached my limit for empathy and involvement in his BS- up till now I had gone after the school, seeking ways he could make peace with his friends, getting too involved and basically over parenting him. Giving endless attention to the drama between him and his friends/peers while he comes home to lash out at me- shouting and all.



Now I’ve changed my MO- he’s to start doing his own laundry ( using the washer/ dryer etc) supervised, and for every time his teacher calls me aside to chat about his behaviour he will complete an extra chore at home- cleaning jobs, dishes etc- age appropriate. This was initiated last week Friday and was effective at taking the steam away from his outburst.


Im aware that after growing up in bpd/NPD household and marrying a pwBPD I’m quite hyper vigilant.

I’m just wondering if there’s anything else I can do- I plan on funding an assessment for ADHD privately but are there other things  I can do to handle his behaviour?

[Tangled mangled]

So my oldest is now 10 years old and we have now had over 12 months separation from his ubpd dad - whom he has limited contact with over holidays and video calls during the weekends.

In the early days of our separation from his dad- there were severe outbursts and outright rage and hostility. I tried to handle things as best as I could but I’ll give myself 3/10 as I mostly tried to match his toxic energy and gave like for like.

Our relationship has improved over the course of 16 months and the outbursts are rare in occurrence- I think what changed was my approach to parenting- being more empathetic and separating my son’s behaviour from that of his dad even though they were quite identical- I’m talking pushing my buttons constantly even in public, making nasty comments, gaslighting me and the relentless negativity.

All that has changed but now I’m dealing with a 10 year old who is slowly crafting a victim narrative about himself- mainly at school.

I acknowledge that the area we live in is a step down from where we lived in the family home, the living conditions are poorer and general outlook on life in this part of the country is strange.
But I feel like my son has figured out that he can get me to do his bidding . For the past three months, almost every week I get called aside by his teacher because he has had a scuffle with another child- usually one of his friends. It’s usually someone else’s fault too.

The school’s take on things has not been helpful as they think he’s too immature for his age- he’s one of the tallest but youngest in his class and likely has ADHD. They have not fully explored the support his meant to have, their MO seems to be blame shifting.

That aside I feel he creates most of  this drama at school as distraction for the fact that he’s not doing his school work as expected. We have discussed several times he can do to avoid conflict with his classmates but he’s not willing to take advice.

The drama has also increased at home- sucking the peace  out of our lives because he will not listen or follow instructions. Also showing signs of regression , whinging and making sounds/ fake crying like a toddler.

Last week I reached my limit for empathy and involvement in his BS- up till now I had gone after the school, seeking ways he could make peace with his friends, getting too involved and basically over parenting him. Giving endless attention to the drama between him and his friends/peers while he comes home to lash out at me- shouting and all.



Now I’ve changed my MO- he’s to start doing his own laundry ( using the washer/ dryer etc) supervised, and for every time his teacher calls me aside to chat about his behaviour he will complete an extra chore at home- cleaning jobs, dishes etc- age appropriate. This was initiated last week Friday and was effective at taking the steam away from his outburst.


Im aware that after growing up in bpd/NPD household and marrying a pwBPD I’m quite hyper vigilant.

I’m just wondering if there’s anything else I can do- I plan on funding an assessment for ADHD privately but are there other things  I can do to handle his behaviour?

[Tangled mangled]

Just realised this is in the parent/ sibling board!!

[Notwendy]

No worries- post also on the parenting board- you will get answers there- or ask a moderator to move this one there.

I think it would help to update his ADHD assessment. In addition- a psychoeducational assessment. I think the schools are required to do this. Doing it privately may or may not be covered by insurance but if you can do it- with someone reliable, I think it's worth it.
S
Learning differences often co-exist with ADHD but it takes some time for a child to be discovered as "behind" in a subject area. Assessments in the younger years may not pick this up. He might be a grade behind in a subject but it wasn't able to be "seen" in the earlier grades. Kids might refuse to do their work rather than admit they can't do it or need help with it.

The reason this is important is because, a child would rather act up and misbehave in school than to be exposed as not being able to keep up. Kids who are behind also can be behavior problems. So if you discover he needs extra help in a subject- getting support for that might also reduce some of the acting out at school. In addition, you don't want to be punitive for something caused by needing academic help.

Schedule a visit with his doctor to assess if he needs a different dose or kind of ADHD medicine now that he's older and bigger. The doctor can also see if he's beginning puberty- and hormones may be playing a part. Also - this may be a visit where you step out of the room as he may not want "Mom" in there while he's being examined if he is beginning puberty.

I think structures and chores are good to have too. I think with ADHD one should be vigilant for possible learning differences, and also oppositional behavior-they go together. It may be that counseling is needed for him, you, or both to help with behavior management.

[HappyChappy]

Sorry to hear this, this must be very stressful for you. I'd highly recommend getting your son a diagnosis if you can. As if it is adhd , it's the most researched "special needs" condition out there. Loads of tried and tested coping mechanisms, and this would also help you. 

Many children go through a phase of struggling with mood regulation, change such as separation etc... can kick it of, so it's hard to diagnose so young. But regardless of the label, support dealing with these difficult feelings will always help. Sounds like you're trying your best so 3/10 is a bit harsh, be kind to yourself.

[CC43]

Hi Tangled,

It sounds like you and your son have been through a lot.  A separation/divorce is a major change that comes with added stress, even if the stress was already sky-high leading up to the separation/divorce.

I have a nephew who is about your son's age, and he's dealing with the process of divorce from his uNPD / uAlcoholic father.  Though he has sisters, I think the process has been hardest on him, as he identifies most with the same-sex parent.  Visitations with his dad are chaotic, IF his dad manages not to skip them completely with a lame, last-minute excuse.  Imagine how it must feel to a boy when a father doesn't make an effort to see him?  If he does execute overnight visitation, the visit lacks structure.  Eat and sleep schedules are disrupted; there are no rules; the home is filthy and a mess; and he's allowed to play videogames all night.  The next day, invariably there will be calls from the school, for issues like fainting, feeling sick (real or imagined), a breakdown of some sort, etc.

But I think that the biggest issue for my stepson is the love/hate dynamic.  He wants to love and idolize his dad, but he's experiencing for himself how dysfunctional his dad really is because of his uNPD uAlcoholism, and this realization is very troubling to him.  As an example, days after his dad separated, he stopped working and has been unemployed since (five years now). His dad makes all sorts of lame excuses to avoid doing things he doesn't want to do--for example using sudden-onset sickness as an excuse to skip activities--and he's learning those tricks.  As you say, the victim narrative is very destructive over the long haul!

Additionally, I suspect his dad is disparaging his mom, which makes the boy conflicted about loving his mother, too.  No doubt his mom is disparaging his dad, because he can't seem to get a job or get his act together for visitations, and that only adds to the strife.  The boy is confused and conflicted.  He probably once wanted his parents to get back together, but the reality is, they've been fighting over divorce for several years, with no end in sight.  To compensate, his dad buys many gifts, in a misguided attempt to buy his son's love, when really what he wants is attention.

Anyway, I think you're on the right track by introducing structure for your son.  I think structure brings some predictability to his currently chaotic/changing world.  And responsibilities will make him feel like a young man, breeding confidence, if you keep the right attitude (lots of praise when he masters new skills).  One thing my nephew LOVES is Boy Scouts.  The Boy Scout Law is inspiring and can be invoked when he's not behaving like a Boy Scout.  These days, girls can participate, and my sister executes the Boy Scout activities for her son (it's not a strictly father/son activity anymore).

I'd add that maybe your boy is acting out in school because he's finding the material more difficult, possibly confusing.  Does he lack confidence reading?  Summer is a fantastic time to practice reading skills.  Maybe you pick out some books together from the library.  If your son doesn't enjoy reading independently, maybe you read aloud together every day, alternating pages.  With practice he'll build his confidence and his vocabulary.

I know this is a tough time for you and especially your son.  It's understandable that he's having some trouble.  What's most disturbing to me isn't the ADHD, if he has it.  It's the victim narrative that he's adopting.  That is poisonous, because it basically leads to giving up on everything.  I'd say that the Boy Scouts (if available in your area) could be an antidote to that.  It really helped my nephew.  He read the rule book cover to cover; he loves the uniforms; and he pursues the badges with pride.  There are some excellent male role models in the mix as well.

All my best to you.  You've got this.  You're very observant and open to trying new things.  Yes we crumble under pressure sometimes, but we're human.  Kids are resilient, too.  They need to learn how resilient they really are.

[Tangled mangled]

NW
Thanks for the advice. I have totally ignored the fact that he’s actually going through puberty, he’s started experiencing some weight gain and hair growth.

The aggressive behaviour too may be a sign of surging testosterone.

Where we live ADHD assessment is free and accessible through the national health care but the waiting list is long and takes 2 to 4 years, while paying for it privately takes weeks.

He’s not yet embarrassed about the changes in his body so it won’t be difficult to observe. Still working on getting him to stop walking around without clothes at bath time.

His adhd mainly affects his attention and distractions. He’s quite intelligent but struggles with working memory and stress.

[Tangled mangled]

Thanks HappyC,
I’ll be working on getting him an assessment/ diagnosis ASAP.

[Tangled mangled]

CC43 thanks for the suggestions, they very helpful.

My son went through a similar phase as your nephew- the love/hate relationship induced by his dad as well as disparagement.
Thankfully his contact with dad is very limited to less than 50 days in a year. Video calls over the weekend are supervised too.

ATM, I think he is adjusting to his dad’s behaviour too- dad only wants them when it’s convenient for him so even though he can have half the summer break he’s chosen to have them only for a week. I’ve had to explain to the children that their dad prefers them living with me, even though he had challenged my full custody in the past.
I’ll look into boys scouts it seems it’s worked well for your nephew.
You are spot on on the challenges with reading- although he’s much better now- he’s generally a reluctant reader, comic books have helped too and I’ll work with him over the summer break.

The victim narrative bothers me a lot too , he seems to blame all his problems on having divorced parents. I usually counter his narrative by reminding him that we all at more peace being separated than what it was.

Thank you

[Tangled mangled]

So it’s turned out that my son is worried about an impending visit with dad over the summer holidays.This might explain why his been acting up at school and at home.

His dad’s behaviour generally centres around spoiling him and his brother and I was shocked to find that s10 doesn’t appreciate the stuff dad buys for him. The way he explained it, it’s as though dad is trying to buy the children’s love.

He is also worried about the way his dad behaves- I witnessed s10 tell dad off during a Skype call. S10 was making funny faces during the call and instead of dad ignoring this and treating it as a typical silly behaviour expected from a 10 year old boy, he chose to pick on him, telling him off. S10 asked dad “ why are you acting weird?”. He asked him to stop or he would end the call. In typical fashion of a pwbpd he continued telling him off and turning their conversation into an argument. At which stage I gestured from a distance to S10 to end the call, which he did.

On my part I’ve explained to S10 that when he is older he would have a better understanding of his dad’s behaviour and that for now he shouldn’t feel the need to ‘care’ for dad. I reassured him that it was his dad’s responsibility to care for him and not the other way round.
Ive also explained to S10 that during his 1 week visit with dad if things escalated to the point where he wasn’t feeling safe or was worried about his dad’s behaviour then he could call me and I would reschedule their pickup to a sooner date.

The reassurance has helped and his being more settled lately

[HappyChappy]

His dad’s behaviour generally centres around spoiling him .... s10 doesn’t appreciate the stuff dad buys for him. The way he explained it, it’s as though dad is trying to buy the children’s love.

Google 7 different ways to show love, some do it by buying presents. That may give your 10 year old perspective.

S10 was making funny faces during the call and instead of dad ignoring this and treating it as a typical silly behaviour ...

I you weren’t there, it’s best to be an honest broker in this. Shaming anyone will make them more defensive. My guess is making silly faces back would have helped, but boys will be boys.

If someone is depressed they can be very sensitive to criticism, especially if they have a stigmatized label or have been bullied by others for their mental health. It doesn’t excuse this behaviour, but may explain it. It may be a learning opperunity for son and husband ?

Would your husband applogies, if in the right frame of mind ? I’d caution against buying his son a present as that will encourage your son to trigger him more.

The good book, written thousands of years ago, says something along the lines of “beware adults using negative child like emotions” e.g like anger and jealousy. But silly childish behaviour is positive. Men in England often tease the people they love. Shakespeare referred to a larger than life, beloved plus size character as “the horse back breaker” as a show of affection. If someone is expected to be  manly and show no weekness, that's an easier way to show effection. Boys hey ? Sorry you're having to deal with this.