Closer to letting go?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My ubpdbf broke up with me a couple of times this week after I was out of town for a few days spending time with my family. The trigger was my going in a hot tub with my sister after skiing (he found it very inappropriate considering that other men could have been there). He then proceeded to tell me how I just need mommy and daddy and that I have an unhealthy attachment to them; that I need to cut the umbilical cord with them. After this I stopped reaching out to him (which seemed normal to me since he broke up with me and sent me a video stating that we are officially broken up and that he will start dating other women)... After my not responding he let me know I could still be with him if I got my act together... I still wasn't super responsive bc I was with family and he was talking badly about me and them... then, this morning, the last day with my family he said we are done. That he has done a lot of good for me, and that I have done nothing good for him; that he can get "pussy" elsewhere because that is all I am good for, and told me that he is talking to other women and that he gives me permission to do whatever I want. This all feels so yucky and rude and disrespectful. I am reaching my limit. The control and the verbal/emotional abuse. I feel like I am going crazy sometimes, oscillating between empathy sadness hope and a lack of hope. I guess I am just desiring some kind of validation here... that this is all very hurtful, despite there being a mental illness involved.

[Petra1115]

My ubpdbf broke up with me a couple of times this week after I was out of town for a few days spending time with my family. The trigger was my going in a hot tub with my sister after skiing (he found it very inappropriate considering that other men could have been there). He then proceeded to tell me how I just need mommy and daddy and that I have an unhealthy attachment to them; that I need to cut the umbilical cord with them. After this I stopped reaching out to him (which seemed normal to me since he broke up with me and sent me a video stating that we are officially broken up and that he will start dating other women)... After my not responding he let me know I could still be with him if I got my act together... I still wasn't super responsive bc I was with family and he was talking badly about me and them... then, this morning, the last day with my family he said we are done. That he has done a lot of good for me, and that I have done nothing good for him; that he can get "pussy" elsewhere because that is all I am good for, and told me that he is talking to other women and that he gives me permission to do whatever I want. This all feels so yucky and rude and disrespectful. I am reaching my limit. The control and the verbal/emotional abuse. I feel like I am going crazy sometimes, oscillating between empathy sadness hope and a lack of hope. I guess I am just desiring some kind of validation here... that this is all very hurtful, despite there being a mental illness involved.

[HurtAndTired]

Hi Petra,

I saw that you mentioned in your other post that one of the main things holding you in this relationship is your age and desire for biological children. I can relate very strongly to this as I was in exactly the same boat.

My wife and I started dating 13 years ago when I was 37. We married 9 years ago when I was 41. I had just gone through a career change from the corporate world to teaching. For the previous three years, I had been in college as a full-time student to retrain for my new career, and having a family was not financially feasible for us at the time. However, after we got engaged, we agreed to start a family as soon as we got married. Within a year after the marriage she was pregnant, but we lost the child to a miscarriage about a month and a half into the pregnancy. We were both devastated. I wanted to try again, but had learned to read her signs of dysregulation and did not want to set her off by bringing up the subject until she was ready.

Two years later I was 44 and nearing 45. She was nearing 42. I could no longer wait to bring up having a family as I felt time was running out for us biologically. I told her in September of that year that I wanted to move forward with trying again. She immediately said she could not go through another miscarriage. Although I was disappointed about not having the possibility of a biological child, I immediately said "ok, then let's start the adoption process. There are a lot of kids out there who need a loving home." She agreed, but changed her mind the next day, saying "I have already raised a son (my SS26 - 22 at the time), and now it is time for me to be selfish and concentrate on my own needs."

For the next nine months I begged and pleaded with her to reconsider. I didn't want to have to start over at my age and try to find someone else who would want to start a family. I felt like she was my last chance to have kids of my own, despite the fact that she had been physically, emotionally, verbally, and sexually abusive to me for years. I had a particularly dark moment that Christmas when I broke down crying. I thought about the Christmases of the past where my small family (4 grandparents, 1 aunt and uncle, 2 cousins, my 1 brother and both parents) would spend the holidays together. My small family is much smaller now. My grandparents are all gone, my brother is married and childless, living overseas, my 1 cousin is childless, and the other has 2 kids but lives far away, and my parents are elderly. I could see future Christmases spent alone with only my bitter, angry wife for company as my blood family shrank away to nothing and my bloodline eventually died with me. Her response to my tears of despair? She laughed at me!

Over the nine months of us arguing about this issue, she would frequently tell me that if I wanted a family, I needed to leave her and find someone else. She would laugh at me and mock me. She would restate that she was never having any more children, adopted or otherwise. A few days before the COVID lockdowns started, I finally took the step of separating from her and moved into my parents' summer house (they were snowbirding in Florida at the time). For the next month I went through lockdown alone in that house, working remotely. I couldn't even see a divorce attorney due to the lockdown. To pass the time, I created a dating profile just to see if there were any "age appropriate" women out there who were looking for someone to start a family with. Mind you, I was not trying to date (impossible to do in a lockdown) but just trying to gauge if it was hopeless for me to even dream of starting a family with someone else.

Of course my estranged wife saw my dating profile and was furious. However, it scared the hell out of her that I was serious about moving on with my life. She begged me to come back and agreed to go to marriage counseling. We went to counseling for the next 8 months and got pregnant within 4 months of reconciling. My wife quit going to counseling when the therapist diagnosed her with "Emotional Dysregulation Disorder" (I didn't know it at the time, but it is just another name for BPD). Although we were both terrified of something bad happening with the baby for the entirety of the pregnancy, nine months later we had a healthy baby boy.

After our son was born, my wife went on antidepressants for a year due to post-partum depression. That seemed to stop her from raging and physically attacking me, but she was still mean as hell. After that year she stopped taking her meds because she didn't like how they made her feel. Soon after, the rages returned. I went back to my usual behaviors of appeasement and walking on eggshells. That went on for another year.

When my son was 2, I saw that he was noticing how his mother was treating me and was soaking up everything like a sponge. I finally realized that I had to stop the abuse for his sake. I broke down and talked to a friend of mine who is on the local police force. I wanted to know what to do the next time my wife assaulted me so that I would not be arrested (men who are being abused are often arrested as the abuser by police because they are just assumed to be the aggressor in domestic violence situations). I also didn't want her to go to jail if possible. He advised me to call the non-emergency line as soon as she started getting aggressive, but before she hit me and report it as a mental health incident. A month later I had to do just that.

She had been drinking and lost her temper with me (she has started drinking daily over the past few years after the pregnancy) and was throwing things at me while chasing me around the house and screaming insults at me. I told her that I was calling the police and she laughed at me and dared me to do so. She was shocked when I followed through. The police came and talked her down. We spent that night in separate bedrooms with the doors locked, and she didn't talk to me for a month afterwards, but she hasn't dared to hit me again since then.

I won't go into all of the details of the abuse that I have suffered over the years, if you want to know about that, you can message me or look at some of my other (admittedly long) posts. I mainly want to tell you that having my S3 (soon to by S4) is the best thing that has ever happened to me and I don't regret reconciling with my wife, only due to his existence. However, I can also see that my marriage is failing and that I will likely be divorced or in the process of divorcing over the next 12 months or so. I worry about the impact that this will have on my son. I worry about the impact that witnessing the abuse perpetrated on me will have on him in the long-term. I worry about how his mother will continue to bad mouth me after we are divorced, I am worried about her dysregulating when he is with her and I am not there to intervene. I worry about all of that, but I know that providing him with a stable, sane, and safe home at least 50% percent of the time is better than him living in a chaotic home 100% of the time.

Having a child with a pwBPD does not make things better. It makes their BPD worse. Parenting with a pwBPD is incredibly difficult. It is hard on you, and it is hard on the kids. It is not a healthy environment for children to grow up with a BPD parent. Although I would never want to change anything that led to my son existing, if I had been able to make a break during our separation and start a family with someone who didn't have BPD, I would not be in the awful position that I find myself in now.

I am currently getting my financial ducks in a row so that I can buy out my wife's share of the equity in our house and be able to pay all the bills without her income. She has no idea that I am actively working toward leaving her, by design. I can't let her find out or she would potentially hurt me physically. I am also terrified of her making up child abuse allegations during the divorce proceedings to try to cut me off from contact with my son. I have had to buy hidden cameras to record her bouts of dysregulation and to protect myself from any false allegations of abuse. It is super stressful.

Consider where I am now and think about how this could be you in a few years. I would talk to a doctor about your options for maximizing/preserving your fertility if having a biological child is very important to you. Having a child with a pwBPD due to timing/them being the only available option is not a good way to start a family and has serious consequences. I ignored very serious red flags (like waking up to being choked) for far too many years. My wife's BPD has only escalated over the years. A diagnosis did not help, it only made her more adamant that there's nothing wrong with her.

Having a child is always a blessing. You have a right to that if that is what you want. Children can be biological or adopted and still bring you the same amount of joy. That being said, having a stable, sane, and safe co-parent is of immense value to both you and your child. I learned that lesson the hard way.

HurtAndTired

[Petra1115]

Hurt and Tired--
THANK YOU HurtandTired.
You saw the part that is most vulnerable to me...
my ticking biological clock. There are many red flags and also of concern to me is that my partner wants to move to a country where there isn't a US embassy... which just makes me feel if things escalate after having children I could be in a situation where I have fewer options if something goes awry. I don't like thinking this way. But given that he has DV charges from prior relationships and what I have seen in ours, I feel like I have to take all of this into account. My heart says yes, but I think my body and mind are telling me "no". The heart is hopeful and forgiving... best case scenario, since he has wanted a child so badly since the beginning of our relationship, would be that a child shifted our relationship in a POSITIVE way and that he would be a good father. At this point it feels like a gamble though. One night my walking into the bedroom woke him up, and then he had an episode, starting yelling about how disrespectful I am and that this sort of situation could cause him to get violent. When I asked him about this the next morning, he said something to the effect of "not violent with you, but with physical objects". That scared me. I thought... what on earth would happen if he woke up to the cries of a baby in the middle of the night? Would I be scrambling for safety with a baby if he had an episode after disturbed sleep? Also concerning in my last posts are that he sees nothing wrong in his actions a lot of the time. He apologizes occasionally, but there is a whole lot of projection and blame shifting... and also a desire on his part to take revenge (normally based on delusions, not things that have actually happened).

[Petra1115]

Also Hurt and Tired...

Thank you for sharing so much about YOUR situation. I hope things settle and that you and your son feel safe and a sense of peace. What you described sounds challenging and truly terrifying.

[ForeverDad]

One item that is too often missing from people with BPD traits (pwBPD) is RESPECT.  In so many ways your BF is not showing you respect for you as a person.  That alone is a major indicator of where your relationship is headed, even if you ignore the other contraindications in the relationship... and whether you want to even consider this person as a potential co-parent.

[Petra1115]

Very good point ForeverDad. The lack of respect is so apparent to others on the outside.I should have never allowed it in the first place. His turning the tables and calling me disrespectful has certainly contributed. I feel like I have in a way been trying to prove my worth, and also gave him a bit of a pass based on what I observe to be someone who struggles a lot with their mental health.

[EyesUp]

Hi Petra,

To answer the question in your subject line:  It does sound like you're closer to letting go.

On one hand, he's stated that he's done, he's moving on - and he's made some unkind remarks in the process. On the other, it's like you're still mulling over the situation, choosing to keep the door open. Is it because you've cycled through breakups before?  What would be different this time?

How are you doing at this point?

[HurtAndTired]

Hi Petra,

I just wanted to check back in with you and respond to your reply. To sum up what you have said that I find deeply concerning:

• Your partner has a history of DV and has threatened to be violent with objects around you, but not you...yet.
• Your partner wants to move to a different country where there is no US embassy.
• Your partner lacks remorse and, I suspect, empathy.
• You are ignoring what your mind and body are telling you and listening to your heart instead.

Let me put these concerns into context one at a time. First, the history of DV and threats of violence need to be taken deadly seriously. In my experience DV does not stop but instead escalates over time. If someone has a history of intimate partner violence, shows no remorse, and has not done an incredible amount of self-motivated professional therapy, inner reflection and a superhuman effort to be a better person and change behaviors, they will remain the same person. Just like an alcoholic will always go back to drinking unless they have a strong intrinsic motivation to change and enter into therapy of their own free will, people with PDs will remain sick and dysfunctional until they decide that they truly want to enter therapy and change. Even then, therapy must remain consistent and never stops. The alcoholic will always be in recovery and is always in danger of a relapse. A pwPD must always remain in therapy and is always in danger of a relapse.

My wife started her physical abuse of me with objects (destroying important personal objects of mine) then escalated to slapping, then to kicking hitting, biting, chocking, scratching, and finally started hitting me in the head with things while I was sleeping. One time she broke a large framed picture, glass and all, over my head while I slept on the couch. Glass was everywhere. She could have pierced my temple and I could have bled out. I have no doubt in my mind that she is capable of killing me when she is in the midst of a rage.

Second, you said your partner wants to move to a different country where there is no US embassy. I am guessing he is from this country and that the country does not have good relations with the US. In addition to lacking protection from the US government in this country, there are likely huge linguistic, cultural, and religious differences from what you find here. This would put you in extreme isolation from supportive friends and family. Cultural/religious differences might make it hard or impossible to seek help from authorities if/when he becomes violent with you and/or a child. The linguistic differences might also make it very hard for you to build a support network there. I have been speaking Spanish as a second language for over 30 years and it is still hard for me to have difficult or in depth conversations about philosophical, political, or religious issues because my academic Spanish vocabulary is limited (think upper high school/college level words). If I had to navigate a legal system in a Spanish speaking country it would be a great challenge for me to do without a translator. Unless you speak his language fluently (are as comfortable with it as English) you would be putting yourself at an extreme disadvantage and skew the power dynamic in your relationship dramatically in his direction.

Thirdly, your partner's lack of remorse and empathy is a feature of BPD, not a bug. This is just how he is. I lost two close friends to deaths of despair over the course of a few months last year and found out about them within a few days of each other. One died of alcoholism and the other took her own life. I had known these people for more than 30 years. I knew their parents. I had roomed with them in college. We had gone on vacations together. I am friends with their siblings. I have been there for marriages, funerals, and the births of family members. They were more like family than friends. My wife did not even offer me a "I am sorry for your loss," instead she insulted them and said that their deaths were their own faults. She called the one a "hopeless drunk" and said the other "took the coward's way out." Within a few days a girlfriend of hers called her to let her know that she had broken up with a long-term boyfriend. My wife spent over two hours consoling her on the phone. It was surreal. Her sympathy/empathy for her friend losing a boyfriend was profound (or at least she faked it) but her sympathy for my close friends dying terrible deaths was completely lacking. Your partner will not "grow" the ability to feel empathy. If you have seen any towards you or anyone else, it was likely faked to keep his mask of normalcy firmly in place.

Finally, your body and mind are in conflict with what your heart is telling you. While I know that we often hear the advice to "follow your heart" it is much better advice to follow your gut. When your gut is telling you something is off, you need to listen. This is the subconscious mind's way of giving you important warning signals that your conscious mind may be ignoring or suppressing. Your gut will never lead you astray, your heart will. Ignore your gut at your own peril. We are built to sense danger. Talk to any cop or soldier and they will tell you that they listen to their gut to keep them alive.

You say that you are on the brink of letting go. I have been there. What clinched it for me was coming to the realization that this is as good as my relationship was ever going to get. I had placed strict boundaries for my own protection and the protection of our son. I will call the police if she ever gets physical. I will call mental health emergency services if she ever threatens suicide/attempts. I have moved into the guest room and sleep with the door locked. I leave the room or the house with our son if she becomes verbally abusive. I record our interactions with hidden cameras to protect myself from false allegations of abuse.

I have done everything I can do from my 50% of the relationship I control to make things better. They have become less dangerous, and sometimes tolerable, but that is as far is it has gone. For things to improve beyond that, my wife would have to be willing to work on herself. She is not. With BPD blame shifting and a lack of recognition that there is anything wrong with them (even with a diagnosis) getting them to agree to go to treatment is nearly impossible. The few that do are either very insightful, have a milder form of BPD, or have such extreme BPD that they end up at rock bottom (incarcerated or in a mental ward) before they seek treatment. Higher functioning pwBPD like my wife can spend a lifetime flying under the radar and only show their true selves in the home, behind closed doors. I suspect your partner also falls into this category.

Giving up on things getting better has been a mixed bag for me. I mourn the false hope that I had for my marriage to improve, but I also realize that I was being delusional that it ever would. Much better that I realize this now and prepare myself to move on to an independant and safer life with my son than to realize it when I am retired, have fewer options about leaving, and irreparable mental and emotional damage has been inflicted on our grown son (who would be much more likely to develop BPD himself or enter into a relationship with a pwBPD unless protected from his mom's mental dysfunction now while he is little).

As I see it, you have many positives to look at about letting go and moving on at this point in your life. You are still young and can find someone else who deserves you. You don't have the financial entanglements of a marriage to unwind in court (house, debts, etc.), and you don't have to worry about a protracted custody battle over children in court. You can walk away relatively unscathed. I have to prepare to spend $15k to $20k and go through an awful court battle with my wife. I am saving up and paying off debt as fast as I can, but I am still stuck trying to make the best of things until I can be financially ready for that a year or so from now.

I hope that you can find the validation you are looking for in my story. If I were in your shoes and had it all to do over again, I would get out. I had the same warnings from my gut and ignored them. I remember going on a long walk after my wife hit me for the first time. It was late at night and I spent over an hour walking in the dark around the neighborhood. I managed to let my mind convince me that I had already invested too much into the relationship to bail at that point and went back. At that point we were living together, but not engaged, married, had no kids, and did not own a house together. I could have just taken my things and gone. I was only 39. I could have started over. I regret not listening to my gut. All of the things that I did later, getting engaged, buying a house, and having a child were all things that I thought would finally make her happy. Too late I realized that she will never be happy. She could have a perfect life and would still find something to be angry and miserable about. This is because her misery comes from inside of her. Nothing external will ever, ever fix that.

HurtAndTired

[Petra1115]

HurtandTired and EyesUp...
thank you so much for sharing and for checking in.
The advice of go with your gut is helpful. I think what has made this "functional" for me is the living day by day-- not thinking about the future. I feel like I could be the point of letting go if he breaks up with me... But no matter how serious I feel that he is about breaking up each time, it seems he always returns; and this is where I lose my strength. Upon returning from seeing my family... he was teary eyed telling me how much he had missed me, and admitted to flipping out because of it. It isn't fake crying. It is like he is in pain... The abandonment trigger is strong. It's like he felt safe once I was in his physical vicinity again. I see the wounded child in him and it plays at my heart strings.
The DV charge was when he damaged the house he was in after his ex divorced him. I would be able to move past that if I didn't experience his rage still happening now.... basically it is apparent that there is more work to do....
I think what is hard is that I see clearly what is happening. There is a threat of abandonment to him (whether it is my physically not being in his presence, or of perceived abandonment)... when this happens he breaks up with me or rages or pushes me away, or creates a scenario of his greatest fears (imagining that I am actually abandoning him or that I am with someone else).... and that is when he tears me apart. When he calms down, things feel normal and good again.... I wish the blame shifting and the verbal and emotional abuse weren't there. If it were BPD alone, I think I could manage (or at least this is what I tell myself). It is everything that is added to it. I feel like he is two different people; as such, I feel I have become two different people: a hopeful me who is open to moving forward day by day with him; and a tired and worn out me, one who feels like I can't build a future because each time it feels close to us taking a step, that hope is destroyed, at least momentarily, in one of his rages. I have tried a variety of approaches, gently telling him what I sense is going on, encouraging him to get help. He tells me he doesn't want meds, and I tell him it wouldn't necessarily have to be that... that there are other therapies. I don't think he knows the full impact of his words and actions.. or if he does, and conveniently forgets. It is hard to tell; but I have told him he is abusive. He denies it. On occasion he has been able to express that he doesn't want to be angry and that it feels like something is overtaking him. It is really tough because he has moments of awareness... Now that I am back and he is a different person it makes it so tough for me. I know eventually the conflict will boil up again because he will want to move forward and I will likely oscillate between feeling hesitant and hopeful... and this will be maddening to him (and feel like stuckness to the both of us).
HurtandTired-- my partner does have empathy for certain things at certain times... definitely not when he is raging... but after. When I am at my limit and I break down, he seems sensitive to that. It takes a lot to get to that point though, where he can be empathetic to my pain. I am so sorry for what you went through and are going through and I can feel your support in the idea of my making a new start. I truthfully am unsure if my body would allow me to move forward, even if my heart and mind wanted to. But this would leave me in limbo losing time... What would make me feel safe? His acknowledging unsafe behaviors. Him saying he doesn't want it to be this way and taking responsibility for that. I wonder if this is what I need to say and ask for... and be willing to walk if he can't do it. Which he might not be able to. I know I am his favorite person. And that makes this tough; and I know that is what brings a lot of us here in the first place. None of these situations are without complexity, and each human being, whether they have bpd or not, has positive and negative qualities.

[ForeverDad]

One difficulty you're having is that you can see how he is affected (by his many poor actions) but you don't see as clearly how YOU are affected (by his many poor actions).

What is the problem?  Answer:  You are in a dysfunctional, unhealthy relationship.

What is under your control?  Answer:  You, your life, your decisions.

Look at the future.  5 years, 10 years...  You came here for education, boundaries, strategies and experiences.  If you stay in in the relationship, there's no indication it will get better, rather, it can get worse.  Ask yourself, if you're going to have to "cut your losses" at some point, wouldn't it be better to do so sooner rather than later?

[Petra1115]

Forever Dad-
Thanks for your honesty. I get that cutting losses is better sooner than later if that is going to happen inevitably anyway. Easier said than done. I don't know if I will ever feel ready for this but posting helps me feel not alone in the chaos.