Do they ever regret the discard? Do they unsplit us?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

It’s been a year since my now ex-wife discarded me, and while I’m doing a lot better than I was, there’s still not been a day where I haven’t thought about it all. I still miss her very much, and despite how painfully things ended - and how vicious and uncaring she became – I’m still struggling to let go. Even now I don’t really understand why she ended things, and I still struggle to comprehend how she could act with such cruelty and indifference. The positive image I have of her - as somebody who loved me and with whom I was incredibly close for such a long period of time – is still incredibly persistent.

I’m still spending a lot of time wondering if she’ll ever come to ever regret any of it; if she might ever feel guilt over the damage she inflicted, and what she threw away. I wonder if there’s some possibility that she could realize whatever negative image of me she had conjured up was mostly an illusion, and that the monster she repeatedly stabbed through the heart was in fact the person who loved her – perhaps even someone she loved back. I question if somehow one day the memories could come back to her, and that she could again see me for me, and that she might feel an ounce of remorse and at least try to help me understand what was really going through her mind.

It seems very common that they do try to come back into our lives, so I would assume they must on some level be able to conceptualize that they wronged us. Yet, there seem to be quite a lot of different opinions on if they can ever really experience regret. Listening to the perspectives of pwBPD, it does seem like many do experience guilt and shame over splitting on and discarding people, especially long-term partners, but often feel shame about reaching out. In some cases, it seems they just find it easier to shut us out of their mind then confront their behavior, especially for people with “quiet” or “discouraged” BPD like my ex.

When I was actively being devalued/discarded, I remember she would say things like how she loved me, but that she couldn't be with me. How she just "gets like this and doesn't know how to move past it", how she suddenly broke down sobbing with the most intense grief when I said that if she doesn't want to try and stay together she might as well file for divorce. I guess I'm just left with this sense that she didn't really feel as if she had a choice, that she was somehow in such turmoil and pain that discarding me was the only way she could cope with her intense feelings of shame and anger or whatever she was going through. It just leaves me to wonder if, after those feelings become less intense, that she might be able to look back and see our relationship and our love for what it was. Am I dreaming?

[ResilientSoul]

It’s been a year since my now ex-wife discarded me, and while I’m doing a lot better than I was, there’s still not been a day where I haven’t thought about it all. I still miss her very much, and despite how painfully things ended - and how vicious and uncaring she became – I’m still struggling to let go. Even now I don’t really understand why she ended things, and I still struggle to comprehend how she could act with such cruelty and indifference. The positive image I have of her - as somebody who loved me and with whom I was incredibly close for such a long period of time – is still incredibly persistent.

I’m still spending a lot of time wondering if she’ll ever come to ever regret any of it; if she might ever feel guilt over the damage she inflicted, and what she threw away. I wonder if there’s some possibility that she could realize whatever negative image of me she had conjured up was mostly an illusion, and that the monster she repeatedly stabbed through the heart was in fact the person who loved her – perhaps even someone she loved back. I question if somehow one day the memories could come back to her, and that she could again see me for me, and that she might feel an ounce of remorse and at least try to help me understand what was really going through her mind.

It seems very common that they do try to come back into our lives, so I would assume they must on some level be able to conceptualize that they wronged us. Yet, there seem to be quite a lot of different opinions on if they can ever really experience regret. Listening to the perspectives of pwBPD, it does seem like many do experience guilt and shame over splitting on and discarding people, especially long-term partners, but often feel shame about reaching out. In some cases, it seems they just find it easier to shut us out of their mind then confront their behavior, especially for people with “quiet” or “discouraged” BPD like my ex.

When I was actively being devalued/discarded, I remember she would say things like how she loved me, but that she couldn't be with me. How she just "gets like this and doesn't know how to move past it", how she suddenly broke down sobbing with the most intense grief when I said that if she doesn't want to try and stay together she might as well file for divorce. I guess I'm just left with this sense that she didn't really feel as if she had a choice, that she was somehow in such turmoil and pain that discarding me was the only way she could cope with her intense feelings of shame and anger or whatever she was going through. It just leaves me to wonder if, after those feelings become less intense, that she might be able to look back and see our relationship and our love for what it was. Am I dreaming?

[tina7868]

It’s been a year since my now ex-wife discarded me, and while I’m doing a lot better than I was, there’s still not been a day where I haven’t thought about it all. I still miss her very much, and despite how painfully things ended - and how vicious and uncaring she became – I’m still struggling to let go. Even now I don’t really understand why she ended things, and I still struggle to comprehend how she could act with such cruelty and indifference. The positive image I have of her - as somebody who loved me and with whom I was incredibly close for such a long period of time – is still incredibly persistent.

I’m still spending a lot of time wondering if she’ll ever come to ever regret any of it; if she might ever feel guilt over the damage she inflicted, and what she threw away. I wonder if there’s some possibility that she could realize whatever negative image of me she had conjured up was mostly an illusion, and that the monster she repeatedly stabbed through the heart was in fact the person who loved her – perhaps even someone she loved back. I question if somehow one day the memories could come back to her, and that she could again see me for me, and that she might feel an ounce of remorse and at least try to help me understand what was really going through her mind.

It seems very common that they do try to come back into our lives, so I would assume they must on some level be able to conceptualize that they wronged us. Yet, there seem to be quite a lot of different opinions on if they can ever really experience regret. Listening to the perspectives of pwBPD, it does seem like many do experience guilt and shame over splitting on and discarding people, especially long-term partners, but often feel shame about reaching out. In some cases, it seems they just find it easier to shut us out of their mind then confront their behavior, especially for people with “quiet” or “discouraged” BPD like my ex.

When I was actively being devalued/discarded, I remember she would say things like how she loved me, but that she couldn't be with me. How she just "gets like this and doesn't know how to move past it", how she suddenly broke down sobbing with the most intense grief when I said that if she doesn't want to try and stay together she might as well file for divorce. I guess I'm just left with this sense that she didn't really feel as if she had a choice, that she was somehow in such turmoil and pain that discarding me was the only way she could cope with her intense feelings of shame and anger or whatever she was going through. It just leaves me to wonder if, after those feelings become less intense, that she might be able to look back and see our relationship and our love for what it was. Am I dreaming?

Hi ResilientSoul  . I like your username a lot. Through difficult experiences such as yours, there is an opportunity to demonstrate resilience. By sharing with us here on the forum, you`re planting the seeds towards growth and understanding, and I appreciate that. You`re not alone in this.

My heart goes out to you. I have a few questions to help better understand your situation. Feel free to answer, or not answer them. How long were you and your ex-wife together? Was she diagnosed with BPD while you were together?

A breakup between two healthy and communicative people can still be heartbreaking. A breakup from a relationship with intense ups and downs, confusing behaviour, conflicting emotions, can be devastating. Don`t be hard on yourself for taking the time it takes to put what happened behind you. Have you considered navigating your gried with a therapist?

It`s normal to wonder whether she will reach out to you, whether she will come back after reflections. Indeed, it seems that many pwBPD do tend to return to previous romantic partners. However, as with many things in life, it is not a certainty. Every situation is unique and others factors come into play.

What is best to work towards, in my experience, is a mindset where regardless of what happens, you feel okay. It`s okay to be sad. It`s okay to desire an outcome, to miss someone who meant a lot to you. It isn`t wrong to feel bittersweet; to recognize that the relationship was not a healthy one, but that your heart was open and you cared. What`s important now is to gently shift your focus from what she is thinking and feeling to yourself.

[ResilientSoul]

Hi ResilientSoul  . I like your username a lot. Through difficult experiences such as yours, there is an opportunity to demonstrate resilience. By sharing with us here on the forum, you`re planting the seeds towards growth and understanding, and I appreciate that. You`re not alone in this.

My heart goes out to you. I have a few questions to help better understand your situation. Feel free to answer, or not answer them. How long were you and your ex-wife together? Was she diagnosed with BPD while you were together?

A breakup between two healthy and communicative people can still be heartbreaking. A breakup from a relationship with intense ups and downs, confusing behaviour, conflicting emotions, can be devastating. Don`t be hard on yourself for taking the time it takes to put what happened behind you. Have you considered navigating your gried with a therapist?

It`s normal to wonder whether she will reach out to you, whether she will come back after reflections. Indeed, it seems that many pwBPD do tend to return to previous romantic partners. However, as with many things in life, it is not a certainty. Every situation is unique and others factors come into play.

What is best to work towards, in my experience, is a mindset where regardless of what happens, you feel okay. It`s okay to be sad. It`s okay to desire an outcome, to miss someone who meant a lot to you. It isn`t wrong to feel bittersweet; to recognize that the relationship was not a healthy one, but that your heart was open and you cared. What`s important now is to gently shift your focus from what she is thinking and feeling to yourself.

We were together for almost five years, although we’d known each other almost a decade when we got together. We were long distance for a few years. She was never diagnosed with BPD, but she meets many of the symptoms and I realize in retrospect the relationship fit most the typical patterns you often see. It started with so much love-bombing and idealization that I should have realized were red flags, but was too caught up in the thrill and excitement.

She had terribly low self-esteem, a lot of inwardly directed anger and self-hatred which occasionally manifested as suicidal ideation. She had a pervasive sense of inadequacy, and often believed she was unlovable and only ever ended up hurting people. She would become incredibly hurt from any sort of criticism and take a long time to recover from how awful it would make her feel. She’d occasionally break down from stress and would need me to tell her loving things just so she would be able to fall asleep. She would also become easily irritated or angry at minor things, and lash out verbally, especially toward the end of our relationship where she seemed to have lost significant empathy for me.

Things ended after I found out she had been cheating on me for several months, at which point she walked out of the house and never returned. Divorced a few months later.
I’ve worked with a therapist but it’s still very hard. I don’t feel that I’m really waiting for her to come back, and I accept that she probably won’t and not much could ever come of it if she did. I think I just on some level hope that the person I thought I knew was still “out there” somehow, but there seems to be an unfortunate consensus that they never really existed at all.

[HoratioX]

I'm not a therapist nor anything near an expert on BPD nor CPTSD, anxiety, etc. I've come to read quite a bit on it and talk to some people who are better read or knowledgeable, in some cases themselves having their own issues. So, please keep that in mind with the following.

The general consensus is that regret in the way someone mentally and emotionally healthy experiences it is not what someone with BPD (etc.) experiences, at least not typically. There are shades of reasons why, but the essential difference is a healthy person regrets for both the loss of a relationship with someone they deeply cared for and for what the other person experienced that was painful. With someone with BPD (etc.), the regret is more self-centered -- what they lost or what they now fear from being without that person and/or on their own. It's less regret than need.

If that is true, then their regret happens primarily when they are needy. They are alone or fearful of being alone, for instance. That may well be when they're splitting on someone else. In looking for someone to fill a void, they may feel a form of regret. But the regret is not generous. It is largely self preservation and personal need, and that's what drives them back. But it's not something they simply feel from time to time the way someone who is mentally and emotionally healthy does when they are haunted by their memories and conscience.

And when they split on you, the same thing can happen as they look for someone else.

So, if that is correct, any regret they feel comes with both limitations and strings attached.

I sympathize with how you feel and what you are going through. While it's entirely possible that with enough therapy, medication, and/or self work, someone with BPD (etc.) can go into remission -- much like an alcoholic can stop drinking -- the threat of relapse at the very least will always be there. With a mentally and emotionally healthy person, the regret usually keeps them from committing the same mistakes. With someone with BPD (etc.), that's not the same. They can completely make the same mistake for no other reason than a need -- real or perceived -- in the moment.

You said the person you thought you knew may have never really existed. I think that's mostly true with people with BPD (etc.), even if a kernal of the person does exist in some form. That person you got glimpses of, and it might even have been the one you truly fell in love with. But the rest was largely an illusion. It existed in form, perhaps, but not substance. If that's the person you're looking for, in that respect it's unlikely you will ever find her because she never truly existed.

So, perhaps a good course of action is to move forward, perhaps with the help of a therapist, and not have any expectations of your ex-wife's return. One last point, though -- if I read correctly, you don't know if your ex-wife was diagnosed with anything. That presents a wild card because then any attempt to predict or "diagnose" anything is only a guess. Acting on a guess may not be wise. Again, though, that might be something to talk to a therapist about.

[hashbrown111822]

Hi Resilient,

My heart breaks for you. Reading your story touched me deeply, as I recognize so much of my own experience in it. I was with my BPDex for a year and a half. A few months ago he began splitting, not necessarily over me, but over how he felt he "had" to live his life. He said he didn't know who he was or what he needed, and same as you, just "couldn't be with me." Like you, I don't think he felt like he had a choice.

While my breakup is still fresh, I remember him like you do your wife. He's the love of my life. My best friend. My most favorite person I've ever met. I remember all the good things... his wicked intelligence, his deep sense of sweetness and caring, his insane sense of humor, and all the fun we had. I recognize now that many of those feelings were my being swept up in the early stages of a BPD relationship cycle... for so many of the people on these boards, we all felt like we'd found our soulmate. I definitely am not ready to let go of him, and even with all the tumult he's caused me, I do still hope we can find our way back to each other.

Like your wife, my ex has become an intensely different person post-breakup. He's full of anger and self-hatred, and became directly emotionally abusive to me. I know I've been devalued. I sometimes still can't understand how he could treat me this way... he's come from significant abuse himself, and told me time and again how no one has ever done the things I've done for him. That he knew true love because of me. That he'd waited his whole life to find me. And yet... here we were.

Every pwBPD is different. There are predictable behaviors, but nothing completely certain. I will say that with my ex, I did witness him being able to experience regret, grief, and shame over actions in his past, especially how he treated past partners. I think it is possible. I will say that my ex is diagnosed, and has been in therapy for 2 years now.

I think that we can also become intense triggers to our pwBPD. And like any trigger, the emotion associated with it will subside as more time and space comes between it and the pwBPD. It sounds like your relationship was deeply loving, on some level, and that you did a lot for your ex. I read on another post here that "once the dust settles, odds are, you'll be remembered for that. Loving relationships are rare and hard to forget." I think that, depending on where your ex goes on her journey to seek help and heal, she might get there one day. You can wish the best for her, but don't hold out for that. Prioritize your own healing -- I recommend the "Lessons in Detachment" here on this board.

My heart goes out to you. We're all in this together.

[ResilientSoul]

Hi Resilient,

My heart breaks for you. Reading your story touched me deeply, as I recognize so much of my own experience in it. I was with my BPDex for a year and a half. A few months ago he began splitting, not necessarily over me, but over how he felt he "had" to live his life. He said he didn't know who he was or what he needed, and same as you, just "couldn't be with me." Like you, I don't think he felt like he had a choice.

While my breakup is still fresh, I remember him like you do your wife. He's the love of my life. My best friend. My most favorite person I've ever met. I remember all the good things... his wicked intelligence, his deep sense of sweetness and caring, his insane sense of humor, and all the fun we had. I recognize now that many of those feelings were my being swept up in the early stages of a BPD relationship cycle... for so many of the people on these boards, we all felt like we'd found our soulmate. I definitely am not ready to let go of him, and even with all the tumult he's caused me, I do still hope we can find our way back to each other.

Like your wife, my ex has become an intensely different person post-breakup. He's full of anger and self-hatred, and became directly emotionally abusive to me. I know I've been devalued. I sometimes still can't understand how he could treat me this way... he's come from significant abuse himself, and told me time and again how no one has ever done the things I've done for him. That he knew true love because of me. That he'd waited his whole life to find me. And yet... here we were.

Every pwBPD is different. There are predictable behaviors, but nothing completely certain. I will say that with my ex, I did witness him being able to experience regret, grief, and shame over actions in his past, especially how he treated past partners. I think it is possible. I will say that my ex is diagnosed, and has been in therapy for 2 years now.

I think that we can also become intense triggers to our pwBPD. And like any trigger, the emotion associated with it will subside as more time and space comes between it and the pwBPD. It sounds like your relationship was deeply loving, on some level, and that you did a lot for your ex. I read on another post here that "once the dust settles, odds are, you'll be remembered for that. Loving relationships are rare and hard to forget." I think that, depending on where your ex goes on her journey to seek help and heal, she might get there one day. You can wish the best for her, but don't hold out for that. Prioritize your own healing -- I recommend the "Lessons in Detachment" here on this board.

My heart goes out to you. We're all in this together.

Thank you for such a heartfelt response. It's so awful to watch somebody we thought we knew so well suddenly slip through our fingers and become almost entirely unreachable. Although every person with pwBPD is different, the confusion and trauma so often experienced by their partners seems almost universally tragic, and my heart goes out to you as well.

I resonate with everything you wrote. My experience was particularly confusing because I never got a clear reason as to why she suddenly wanted to end the relationship. I too heard a lot about how she needed to be free, how she felt suffocated, and that she wanted to be happy and live for herself. She told me that she needed to "put herself first" and "move forward for her happiness", and how she'd given so much to the relationship and finally felt as if she could breathe. The last time I spoke to her, before I left her life for good, I asked her if all of this was just because she wanted to be with somebody else, and all she said was "not entirely; I just realized there was so much more out there."

For the most part, she was almost never abusive during our relationship, and all her negative emotions were directed at herself. Yet, after that night she left it was as if a switch had flipped inside of her; she suddenly became cold, hostile, and detached in a way I'd never seen. She became verbally abusive to the point that she would actively insult and belittle me, and she seemed almost angered by the fact I was confused and heartbroken by her behavior. The most empathic and caring person I had ever known had become this demon; this almost psychopathic entity that I would never have believed could exist within her.

I don't know what it is she really wanted to be free from. I understand the concept of engulfment anxiety, but it felt like her cheating was precipitated by fears of abandonment brought about by the fact I'd been working a lot in the months before. Then there was all the shame when I caught her, her fleeing the home and barely being able to look at me; was it this she was running from? I just struggle to really put my finger on what the driver of it all was, because there are so many variables that came together at once, and she had a different story every time. Every conversation I had with her it seemed like she was trying to make the evidence fit the conclusion, with the reasons and themes never staying constant.

Although learning about BPD has given me a powerful framework with which to come to terms with my experience, I still can't reach any sort of deeper understanding of her or her sudden splitting. In some ways, it's given me more questions than answers, and I'm left even more uncertain in my view of her. It's not that I can't accept the idea that this person I fell in love with was some sort of mirage; it's that I still instinctually feel that she wasn't, that while she was indeed traumatized and disordered there was still a person under that who did love me, and who would have truly found the actions of her "alter ego" to be unconscionable. I just can't make sense of the idea that this highly intelligent and ostensibly self-aware person I fell in love with can't realize the sheer cruelty and depravity of her behavior, and the consequences it had on my life. Like you, I'm left hoping that somehow, some day that person can find their way back to me, if only to help me understand what was going through her mind.

[jaded7]

Thank you for such a heartfelt response. It's so awful to watch somebody we thought we knew so well suddenly slip through our fingers and become almost entirely unreachable. Although every person with pwBPD is different, the confusion and trauma so often experienced by their partners seems almost universally tragic, and my heart goes out to you as well.

I resonate with everything you wrote. My experience was particularly confusing because I never got a clear reason as to why she suddenly wanted to end the relationship. I too heard a lot about how she needed to be free, how she felt suffocated, and that she wanted to be happy and live for herself. She told me that she needed to "put herself first" and "move forward for her happiness", and how she'd given so much to the relationship and finally felt as if she could breathe. The last time I spoke to her, before I left her life for good, I asked her if all of this was just because she wanted to be with somebody else, and all she said was "not entirely; I just realized there was so much more out there."

For the most part, she was almost never abusive during our relationship, and all her negative emotions were directed at herself. Yet, after that night she left it was as if a switch had flipped inside of her; she suddenly became cold, hostile, and detached in a way I'd never seen. She became verbally abusive to the point that she would actively insult and belittle me, and she seemed almost angered by the fact I was confused and heartbroken by her behavior. The most empathic and caring person I had ever known had become this demon; this almost psychopathic entity that I would never have believed could exist within her.

I don't know what it is she really wanted to be free from. I understand the concept of engulfment anxiety, but it felt like her cheating was precipitated by fears of abandonment brought about by the fact I'd been working a lot in the months before. Then there was all the shame when I caught her, her fleeing the home and barely being able to look at me; was it this she was running from? I just struggle to really put my finger on what the driver of it all was, because there are so many variables that came together at once, and she had a different story every time. Every conversation I had with her it seemed like she was trying to make the evidence fit the conclusion, with the reasons and themes never staying constant.

Although learning about BPD has given me a powerful framework with which to come to terms with my experience, I still can't reach any sort of deeper understanding of her or her sudden splitting. In some ways, it's given me more questions than answers, and I'm left even more uncertain in my view of her. It's not that I can't accept the idea that this person I fell in love with was some sort of mirage; it's that I still instinctually feel that she wasn't, that while she was indeed traumatized and disordered there was still a person under that who did love me, and who would have truly found the actions of her "alter ego" to be unconscionable. I just can't make sense of the idea that this highly intelligent and ostensibly self-aware person I fell in love with can't realize the sheer cruelty and depravity of her behavior, and the consequences it had on my life. Like you, I'm left hoping that somehow, some day that person can find their way back to me, if only to help me understand what was going through her mind.

So sorry for what you're going through. Many many of us have had these same feelings. You do a really remarkable job of putting words to these feelings and this confusion. Confusion- it's present in so many of the posts here.

"Yet, after that night she left it was as if a switch had flipped inside of her; she suddenly became cold, hostile, and detached in a way I'd never seen. She became verbally abusive to the point that she would actively insult and belittle me, and she seemed almost angered by the fact I was confused and heartbroken by her behavior. The most empathic and caring person I had ever known had become this demon; this almost psychopathic entity that I would never have believed could exist within her."

This really struck me. I would experience this in my relationship. Just sudden, out of nowhere, meanness and anger, belittling and put downs. And if I acted confused and scared of her, even MORE anger. It was almost as if she hated ME for being 'scared'-as in nervous, confused not physically afraid of her-in response to her outbursts. I believe this is all a part of the projection and defense mechanisms. In your case she was cheating, it was found out, and THEN she became very abusive and angry toward you. It seems to me this a twisted way of protecting herself- if she can convince herself that you are a horrible person, and it comes out as the abusive behavior, then she doesn't need to deal with her own actions and behaviors.

Shame-based behavior, in other words. As you touch upon in your post.

Struggling to put your finger on the "driver" of all of this is completely understandable. In my experience, the partner is living in stories in their head, which very often are not true. Therefore, you can't know what is happening in their head, and can't address what the issue might be. I even told this to my partner in the first year of our relationship. Explicitly- "honey, you seem to have stories in your head about me that aren't true, then you get mad at those stories". So it is both confusing, and there is no way to 'win', even though likely you didn't even think you were in a competition.

This leads to a great deal of confusion, as you express here. I'll give an example in my experience. I had a huge opportunity to partner with the most famous person in the world in my line of work, a name that is known worldwide, a person who had personally taught hundreds of thousands of people his method and style, millions did his program. This person admired my business and invited me to a very private and special weekend for about 20 people all over the world to debut a new piece of equipment in our line of work. It was a huge opportunity for me, and I was very proud that he respected my work and my business. My ex offered no support or showed any pride in this...in fact, she told me that if I partnered with this person it would be really bad for my business. She had no expertise in my line of work, at all. I later found out that she had looked up his name online, found a picture of him from the 90s when he was super famous that she thought was cheesy (sweaty with muscles and longer hair) and decided he was 'bad' and cheesy. At this same time, our physical relationship stopped she became distant, ignored texts and calls to come over, diverted requests to come over to walks in the park, etc. In an explosion months later- when I asked what was wrong with our physical relationship- she told me she was avoiding sex with me because "she was reevaluating the relationship because she wasn't sure she wanted to be with someone who was excited about partnering with ___________".

How was I to know or understand any of this? Confusion reigned in my head for months when she would ignore or evade my communications to come over. Confusion reigned in her distant treatment of me. Confusion reigned when she, during the very same time period asked me to save her $700 by housing her dog while she went on a 3-week trip, and told me that she had looked up an ex-bfs address and he lived .25 miles from where she'd be staying, maybe she visit him.

"I just struggle to really put my finger on what the driver of it all was, because there are so many variables that came together at once, and she had a different story every time. Every conversation I had with her it seemed like she was trying to make the evidence fit the conclusion, with the reasons and themes never staying constant."

See? You can't know what's going on their heads because of these stories, and that's why you're confused, and that's why reality gets twisted and you're accused of doing and thinking things that you weren't doing and thinking. It's their internal world that is choatic.

All of this is to say that I, we, understand that you love her and found yourself in a situation that was difficult to make sense of. You and many of us loved a person, and tried to express that love in a selfless and honest way.

[ForeverDad]

Some people do return, others don't.  Whichever one happens, the discord and dysfunction will continue unless the person with BPD traits (pwBPD) starts meaningful therapy (DBT or CBT are recommended) and diligently applies it in life and perceptions for years to come.  No faking it or attending a few sessions and proclaiming it's done.  And especially no blaming it all (Blame Shifting) on the other person (you).

Perhaps that should be your question... Is my ex really and truly seeking insight on ex's perceptions and applying meaningful counsel long term?  If not then any return would eventually resume the prior poor behavior.  Better to Let Go and Move On.

[ResilientSoul]

...

This really struck me. I would experience this in my relationship. Just sudden, out of nowhere, meanness and anger, belittling and put downs. And if I acted confused and scared of her, even MORE anger. It was almost as if she hated ME for being 'scared'-as in nervous, confused not physically afraid of her-in response to her outbursts. I believe this is all a part of the projection and defense mechanisms. In your case she was cheating, it was found out, and THEN she became very abusive and angry toward you. It seems to me this a twisted way of protecting herself- if she can convince herself that you are a horrible person, and it comes out as the abusive behavior, then she doesn't need to deal with her own actions and behaviors.

Shame-based behavior, in other words. As you touch upon in your post.

Yes; very much so. My instinct is that shame was her real motivator, and that everything she did and said was simply because she couldn't confront what she had done, and how she had behaved. To come back into the relationship, knowing she had been unfaithful and so profoundly violated my trust, was perhaps just not something she was able to do. I realize in retrospect her attitude toward me had changed almost exactly when she began her affair, and I wonder if a sense of guilt was behind her need to push me away and mistreat me. When I finally confronted her, she literally fled - and everything after that was an exercise in painting me as the villain.

Still, we talk of this behavior as a defense mechanism; a temporary state of delusion - perhaps even a form of psychosis - that seems almost in all cases to be transitory. We all know how pwBPD are renowned for splitting on and recycling their partners such a large number of times, and how many insist the only way to escape this terrible cycle is to detach from them completely, going completely no contact. While I can't generalize too much, it does seem that some pwBPD are able to recognize the pain they caused and the damage they inflict, often to the point it ends up reinforcing their already abysmal self-image. My ex-wife did seem so very self-aware, and expressed a great deal of guilt over some of her past behavior and actions, many of which she struggled to explain.

So it's from that position that I wonder about the potential for regret. I accept the idea that their splitting is a defense mechanism, designed to protect them from emotions that are just too unbearable for them to deal with, but it seems as if this ultimately isn't a stable state for them to exist in either. I just hope so much that with time she'll come to realize that I wasn't this monster. That as time passes from the acts she felt so ashamed of, to the point they become largely inconsequential, that she may realize that she behaved so terribly and threw away a person who loved her so deeply, and who I like to think loved me back very much too.

[tina7868]

You seem to have a good grasp on the psychology behind her actions. I know that doesn`t necessarily help with the completely valid hurt that is felt, but it`s important to grasp that there are many complex factors at play.

So it's from that position that I wonder about the potential for regret. I accept the idea that their splitting is a defense mechanism, designed to protect them from emotions that are just too unbearable for them to deal with, but it seems as if this ultimately isn't a stable state for them to exist in either. I just hope so much that with time she'll come to realize that I wasn't this monster. That as time passes from the acts she felt so ashamed of, to the point they become largely inconsequential, that she may realize that she behaved so terribly and threw away a person who loved her so deeply, and who I like to think loved me back very much too.

I can relate to hoping for recognition and  appreciation. For me, being split on certainly impacted my ability for closure.

First, even if she did come back, because of her condition, there will still be limitations to what she is capable of understanding when it comes to her actions and what you offer her (as a person who loves her deeply). As you mentioned, in the past, your ex-wife struggled to explain her behaviour. Facing what is in the mirror, when we are in the wrong, is difficult for all of us, and as you can imagine it is especially difficult for someone with BPD who may not be able to tell themselves `I was in the wrong but I am still a worthy human being`. Instead, shifting blame, running away from the truth, painting over whatever issues lie underneath, is the `safer route`. Not the most beneficial for personal growth, but the least confronting. In my experience, my ex did have insights, but they have been `half-baked`. And so, that isn`t to say that progress can`t be made, but it`s important to be realistic.

Second, in light of the fact that it is out of your control whether she reflects on her past or not (and that even if she did, it may not necessarily be as helpful as you may think), what can you do? I think it important to feel solid in your story, and your understanding of the situation, and live with that as your truth. What I mean is, you know her behaviour was wrong. You know you loved her deeply, and it is sad that she wasn`t able to receive that love that you had to offer. That it is her loss for not seeing it, but that you on the other hand recognize that your ability to care is a strength.

[Joyful Noise]

"You said the person you thought you knew may have never really existed. I think that's mostly true with people with BPD (etc.), even if a kernal of the person does exist in some form. That person you got glimpses of, and it might even have been the one you truly fell in love with. But the rest was largely an illusion. It existed in form, perhaps, but not substance. If that's the person you're looking for, in that respect it's unlikely you will ever find her because she never truly existed."      --from HoratioX's post above.

Just noting this comment as it is extraordinary; on-point.  And, taking it a step further, I think this thought goes to the heart of the BPD lack of a solid Self that results in the extreme need for reassurance of not being abandoned -or physically left alone -ever. 

There IS no core Self there; nothing to bump up against. At least that has been my recent experience with the BPD in my life.  And it was terrifying.  I got a glimpse of how scary it must be to be them.  Its not that they are lacking in confidence (although they may be). Its not a matter of insecurity (and they can be insecure).

It's literally a lack of Self -as a entity, an agent of one's own existence. 

The 60-times-a-night chain texting and calling my son had told me he would receive from her when he was on duty at work suddenly made sense.

"It existed in form, perhaps, but not in substance."   -HoratioX

 

[ForeverDad]

It’s been a year since my now ex-wife discarded me... I wonder if there’s some possibility that she could realize whatever negative image of me she had conjured up was mostly an illusion, and that the monster she repeatedly stabbed through the heart was in fact the person who loved her...

Ask yourself... Did she ever talk about her past relationships?  Did she speak favorably of them or were they all monsters just like she claimed of you?

That is a common pattern for pwBPD, past relationships have to take the blame for the end, at least in their perceptions.  Think of it as Blame Shifting, if it can't be her fault then it has to be you.

If it's been a year, likely she won't return. And if she did then she'd start as she did before, hook you and then when she got antsy she would make life unbearable again until it ended again.  Maybe meaningful therapy would break that pattern but many with BPD can't or won't walk that path.

It wasn't about you, it was about her.  Let Go.  Move On.

[HoratioX]

"You said the person you thought you knew may have never really existed. I think that's mostly true with people with BPD (etc.), even if a kernal of the person does exist in some form. That person you got glimpses of, and it might even have been the one you truly fell in love with. But the rest was largely an illusion. It existed in form, perhaps, but not substance. If that's the person you're looking for, in that respect it's unlikely you will ever find her because she never truly existed."      --from HoratioX's post above.

Just noting this comment as it is extraordinary; on-point.  And, taking it a step further, I think this thought goes to the heart of the BPD lack of a solid Self that results in the extreme need for reassurance of not being abandoned -or physically left alone -ever. 

There IS no core Self there; nothing to bump up against. At least that has been my recent experience with the BPD in my life.  And it was terrifying.  I got a glimpse of how scary it must be to be them.  Its not that they are lacking in confidence (although they may be). Its not a matter of insecurity (and they can be insecure).

It's literally a lack of Self -as a entity, an agent of one's own existence. 

The 60-times-a-night chain texting and calling my son had told me he would receive from her when he was on duty at work suddenly made sense.

"It existed in form, perhaps, but not in substance."   -HoratioX

 

I really appreciate that, as well as your insight. I just wish what I posted didn't seem so true.

My ex very much seemed to have a fun, sexy, buoyant personality at first, which, of course, over time revealed itself to be nothing but. I realized later she was essentially mirroring elements of my personality, or at least presenting herself how she thought I wanted to see her.

Her personality could metamorphosize into several others. There was the little girl personality -- demure, reticent. Then there was the tough personality -- angry, defensive. There was the depressed and fearful personality -- confused and vulnerable. There was the stripper (which she said she had been) -- seductive and unihibited.

My friends met her and commented how different she was the second time than the first. As I had seen, too, they said it wasn't just her personality. Her voice, her expressions, and her demeanor -- even her posture -- seemed different. I'd actually begun to wonder if she had multiple personalities because she could seem so different.

At the same time, though, she was taking a host of pharmaceuticals and also drank and smoked weed from time to time, so I didn't know how much was the substances kicking in. Later, when I read and heard more about BPD, C-PTSD, anxiety, etc., it all made more sense about how she didn't have a core or much of a core personality and was just, for lack of a better term, riffing to become something else for whatever audience was in front of her. In some ways, that was more frightening.

[jaded7]

Ask yourself... Did she ever talk about her past relationships?  Did she speak favorably of them or were they all monsters just like she claimed of you?

That is a common pattern for pwBPD, past relationships have to take the blame for the end, at least in their perceptions.  Think of it as Blame Shifting, if it can't be her fault then it has to be you.

I noted this in my relationship with my ex. Big, important meeting early on to tell me that 'she was in an abusive relationship' with her exh. Constant, and I mean constant, talk about what a jerk her ex was, how he was a narcissist, he had NPD. Forwarding me his emails to her, his texts to her to validate what an a**hole he is. Thing is, I never sensed an abusive person in these communications, not even an angry person. A frustrated person, for sure. I know, because I saw her do it, that she lied to him, manipulated him, kept important information from him, and told everyone what a terrible person he is. She even told their son that he is a bad person.

That is a very common characteristic, that the ex was a horrible person.