What if her version of reality and perception is the right one?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Would it be possible to do both? Help AND separate? Get yourself a place to live, and don't stay overnight at your old home? I don't know if this is good advice.

If you consider what it would have been like if a major issue like the one that has come up now would have come up at a point when you already had a new place to live and had detached for a couple of months? Would that have been different?

[15years]

Would it be possible to do both? Help AND separate? Get yourself a place to live, and don't stay overnight at your old home? I don't know if this is good advice.

If you consider what it would have been like if a major issue like the one that has come up now would have come up at a point when you already had a new place to live and had detached for a couple of months? Would that have been different?

[phoenix blue]

It's a complex issue. It's not me returning to the family home.

If we were further on in the separation, whilst I would be more likely to offer some remote suportt, I think I would still be inclined to go given the circumstances

[ParentingThruIt]

You are saying and doing the right things. Recognizing her patterns is a good step. I still struggle in communication w my ex but it’s less activating/ negatively impacts me less over time as i see the patterns. It’s still sad and I grieve it.

It’s ok to set limits. Eg 1 hour on the phone (or less). You can just hang up and say we can talk again later. It’s okay. Your needs matter.

You’re doing the right things, it’s just so hard and can feel really awful. If it were easier we would have left sooner.

[ForeverDad]

Are you currently getting parenting time with the children? Either the stepkids or especially your own child?

In general, the kids should not be put in the middle.  Your ex simply by her acting-out is going to stress the kids, it's part of the BPD traits to Deny, Blame and Blame Shift.  How can the kids not be impacted?  Yet, you do need the space to rebuild your composure and strengths.

I have no idea whether you have any legal authority to parent the stepkids - that's a legal question for your lawyer - but as a separated parent, though without any court orders issued yet, you do have "equal but undefined" rights to parent your child.  Yes, it's a bit of a mess to try to establish your rights as a parent but it is very important.  (And that's why you need to always document you are and will continue to be an involved parent.  You can't let your spouse become the primary parent by default without standing up for yourself and your own rights as parent.)

[phoenix blue]

Am checking in for a samity check as I am getting a few thinga thrown at me at the moment.
Wjen she threw me out, She didn't let me see my daughter for 6 days. I was allowed to do video calls.  After i retturm3d, as mentionedthinga escalated and i decided to leave.The day I left, I completely ignored the bombardment of messages and calls and I didn't ask to speak with my daughter yet I was begging to when she had thrown me out the house.

I am mot quite sure of the relevance, but I cannot figure out  why that makes me the bad guy. Am I missing something?

[15years]

Just continue to be clear about your wish to meet your daughter. Don't listen to accusations. The bigger picture is worth a lot more than whether or not you asked to speak to your daughter one day. That must have been a chaotic day.

[jaded7]

Just remember that the confusing (untrue, twisted around, made up) accusations are a symptom of the disorder, and very often not true.
It's the lashing out and need to hurt you as a way for them to feel 'better'.

Think it terms of being 'set up' to fail, that helps me sometimes with all the untrue, strange even, accusations.
The 'set up' here is you didn't ask to speak to your daughter that one time, totally ignoring that you did ask the time
she threw you out. You are a person who asks to speak to his daughter, you didn't that one time and now it's a
global accusation. It doesn't make sense, of course.

[phoenix blue]

I called her by her name today... I always use her  pet name.but she was shaking her head pulling faces when I was talking and I used her actual name.

BOOOM!  Big mistake.... my attempt to deescalate, was met with wrath.

She's screaming at me about how much I have hurt her, I am trying to say that we are both under pressure and actually its understandable that she is reacting the way she was and also why i used her actual name.  More BOOM!   

I was actually trying to see if we could get things somewhere on track to see if actually we can attempt to work on things and perhaps reconcile...

I think I need to start recording these things, because afterwards I am left thinking 'did that just happen?"  And start to make excuses for it and start blaming myself.

The whole thing is  just complete and utter madness. 

Just needed to vent before the next round of pain.

[kells76]

Were the two of you talking in person?

What was the goal of the talk?

Even when you're ending the romantic/couple relationship, you'll still be interacting because of the kids (it's not possible to "go no contact" when minor children are involved). Finding more effective ways to communicate will be critical. If BPD is in play, she won't be able to take the lead on healthier communication -- it's going to be your role.

A huge help for me and my H (his kids' mom has many BPD traits/behaviors) was pivoting to BIFF communication for texts/emails, and lowering in person communication (face to face, phone calls, etc) to a minimum.

If reconciling is something on the table for you, then you'll still need to be the one driving positive change. It isn't fair -- it's just reality.

We have a good section of threads on managing conflict. Have you had a chance to check it out yet?

[ForeverDad]

Many here, once it was clear realistic reconciliation (on reasonable terms) wouldn't happen, did end the adult relationship.  Yes, the big D word.  That in itself can trigger reactions and overreactions.  But once the court has issued temp order ensuring you get decent parenting time, once you're past the initial entitlement stages, once the process has work its way to completion, then it's more about just focusing on your parenting.

A marriage can end, as much as we didn't expect nor want it to happen, but you'll be a parent forever.

[phoenix blue]

Thanks both.

I am sat trying to pen a reply. Sat deleting paragraphs, Trying to collect my thoughts. Trying to make sense of this awful and ridiculous situation, wanting to thank you all for giving me a place to write and for your advice amd support.

But I just cannot find the right words.

I came across a song. Messy by Lola Young.

I have a long flight tomorrow. So any inspirational song suggestions for my playlist would be a welcome distraction. Preferably the type of songs that make me sit up, take note of my self worth , and to help me press the proverbial button on this PLEASE READ show.

[phoenix blue]

Oh amd if anyone has any ready made lists of the what a bpd brings (both  for the positive and the negative, it could be quite cathartic, interesting, alarming and funny in a horribly dark sense.

I am not saying that it would be balanced, but think probably more useful to me  to acknowledge that they have some brilliant qualities as well as the worst.

I appreciate that this is something I should work through myself, but just don't have the capacity to do it just yet .

[ForeverDad]

People with BPD (pwBPD) traits have a variety of qualities and behaviors, both good and bad.  I think the phrase is that it's along a spectrum of behaviors.

Some are quite aggressive, some are less so.  Some are neat, some aren't.  Some work hard, others don't.  Some are possessive and controlling of their children, some aren't.

[phoenix blue]

Seemingly the battle lines are being drawn.

I was told today that wife is my daughters life. I replied that it is the other way  around.

The hatred in her eyes is intense.  Forever Dad you mentioned possessive of children on your last message...  this is beyond that.

[ForeverDad]

My spouse's intense posturing that she was going to parent our child and that she would block my parenting, even to the extent of disappearing with him, is the prime reason we separated and divorced.  Everything else was secondary to that.

Have you read William Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder? It is a crucial guide to avoiding or minimizing many of the legal and emotional pitfalls we clueless parent are likely to make.  Some mistakes are important to avoid, the problem is we need others - lawyers, therapists, peer support -  to guide us since this world is new to us and we're out of our depth.

[kells76]

Like FD mentioned, this is unintuitive stuff. It's good you're here processing and getting feedback.

Seemingly the battle lines are being drawn.

I was told today that wife is my daughters life. I replied that it is the other way  around.

The hatred in her eyes is intense.  Forever Dad you mentioned possessive of children on your last message...  this is beyond that.

To me, saying that doesn't look worth it -- it keeps fanning the flames and distracts both of you from focusing on the kids. She may try any number of approaches to get you to engage with her (even negative engagement/arguing) -- don't take the bait. Strongest move you'll make is to decline to engage with statements like that and to focus all that energy on legally protecting your parenting time.

I get it -- we've heard some, uhm, strong assertions too. There's no convincing her that she isn't seeing it correctly and trying to convince her just gives her the engagement with you that she wants and you don't.

Every time you feel drawn in, what would it be like to put down the phone and post here instead? Or draft something for your L, or work on documentation, or write a card for your kids...?

[phoenix blue]

Just to clarify, I  said that my daughter is her life,  not that I am my daughters life.
That my daughter has a life and that it is important that she has as little disruption as possible beyond mothers needs.

Please do understand that that this was in response to something that I cannot go into detail about here and so whilst it may seem that I was trying to antogonise wife, it really wasn't.

However that being said, I take on board what you are saying.

I will order the book over the weekend.

[ForeverDad]

If we hadn't told you before, telling your ex that anything more than that she has 'issues' will invite scathing rants and rages how it's all your fault! (Yes, the title of another William Eddy book.)

So don't name Personality Disorders, diagnostic names, anything specific, not even share your books with her.  (You already know she will find enough things to rant and rage about anyway without adding more triggers to her lists.)  Otherwise she'll never forget it and repeatedly bring it up to use as basis for more arguments.

[ParentingThruIt]

It's truly depleting and exhausting and can pull us away from ourselves at a deep level.  It's okay to need space to heal and re-regulate.

At the same time, you might want to think about ways you can engage your SD daughter even as you put up boundaries with your ex. Even if you don't feel like 100%, maybe there are ways you can keep that connection active that feel right to you. You know your situation best, just sharing a thought.

Best wishes.

[15years]

So any inspirational song suggestions for my playlist would be a welcome distraction. Preferably the type of songs that make me sit up, take note of my self worth

Late but anyway, I love music so I'll share some;

d4vd - Leave Her
Young singer, expresses himself very neatly, mature and immature at the same time (and with a kind of soft aggression). Makes me feel better about myself, that I also matter.

Billie Eilish - I Didn't Change My Number
An aggressive song about self worth. Billie has some red flags but her artistry is great.
"I didn't change my number
I only changed who I reply to" - Or "what" I reply to in our case.
and I like this too:
"I didn't change my number
I only changed who I believe in"

She can be very aggressive in her lyrics;
"You don't deserve to feel so hurt
You gotta a lot of fcking nerve"

Dua Lipa - New Rules
I was chocked trying not to cry when I watched the music video for this song.

The part that starts with "one, don't pick up the phone", which is repeated three times and shows the phases of self respect and detaching:
1. Chaos, needs people who have her best interest in mind to guide her
2. She's getting more confident, she "gets it" now.
3. She's helping other in the position she used to be in.

I think this is also symbolic and the strength comes from within yourself, you have the ingredients to respect yourself but it's a process. The music video portrays this beautifully through friendship between girls.

Arctic Monkeys - Fireside
Having come to a place of accepting that there will also be good memories mixed in. The whole life you've shared that only you two knew, good and bad, "that hotel suite".

"There's all these secrets that I can't keep,
Like in my heart there's that hotel suite
And you lived there so long
It's kind of strange now you're gone"

The Tallest Man On Earth - Love Is All
Just a sad song about divorce. If that doesn't feel like it could help you, skip this one. I myself am drawn to sorrow to make things feel less dramatic afterwards.

Ps. listened to Lola Young - Messy, I like it.