Self-protection advice needed

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi all,

I need some serious advice. Before I get to my current problem, please let me explain the background.

I'm 99 percent positive my wife has BPD, or some sort of PTSD, or something schizo-affective, or a combination thereof. Not simply from my own observation and experience, but also because two different therapists told me so. One's a psychologist, the other a psychiatrist, both worked with her -- and me -- before she dumped them both.

She's seeing another T now, but I'll have to get into that at another time.

The key event for me starting to understand what is going on with my life and marriage and wife came ... .from me. Me screwing up, actually. A few years ago, I got into posting nude pictures of myself online, and text chatting with women I met, and camming. I knew this was wrong, it left me horribly guilty, and yet I was on and off compelled by it. I didn't understand why, never connected it to the issues inside myself and my relationship.

So, two years back, my wife finds out about this. Things explode. I go into therapy and start digging into myself. I mean, from the first session: tons of stuff just comes out of me, like an oil spill. I start to realize that I've got an enormous amount of guilt, self-blame, low esteem, isolation, etc ... .just a really toxic cocktail of suppressed feelings, topped off with tons of anxiety.

It was hard, and for a while I even tried a low dose of psych medication to deal with the anxiety. But the truth was, I didn't need medication. I needed to understand and accept some hard truths and new ways of seeing old information. About myself, my wife and our relationship.

Anyway, my wife -- who in retrospect has shown a lot of BPD tendencies, thinking and behavior, only I never realized it -- immediately goes overtly nuts. First she's apoplectic, then crazy horny, then suicidal, then nearly homicidal, erratic all the while. I get her into therapy when she's suicidal -- because I'm scared out my mind -- and she starts taking medication ... .but she's still just hurting me in every way, hitting me, nearly getting us killed while we're driving, threatening me, trying to ruin my career, moving all of our savings to an account only she controlled, enraged with my family, obsessed with my online porn habit, digging through the entire trail I left online ... .all stuff that I first think maybe is just a semi-normal/reasonable reaction to me emotionally betraying her ... .being cheated on hurts, you know? ... .but then I start to realize, by looking hard at our past and talking to the Ts that are treating both of us, that there is more there. A lot more.

For myself, I realize that I feel pretty damn terrible inside, that I've just swallowed so much BPD stuff over the years that my porn habit was basically me trying to medicate myself and emotionally deal with the despression and anxiety that was growing like cancer out of the BPD stuff in my relationship. I realized I had some abandonment issues due to the death of a caretaker when I was very, very young, and that factored in to some of my learned helplessness. I realized that what I was looking for with the porn was affirmation and acceptance, and that those were the very things, the very needs, that were going unfulfilled and being abused in my marriage, and had been on and off for a very long time.

I stopped feeling unhealthy hate-yourself guilt and started to feel it in an appropriate way. I started to wake up. I started to feel like myself for the first time in years.

But things with my wife ... .not so positive. It was a little better at one point when she was on medication, but the side effects were way too much, very, legitimately frightening for her. Also, us seeing the same doctor wasn't a very good idea. In retrospect. She ultimately quit cold turkey. She still blames me for trying to drug and kill her -- her exact words -- started seeing a new T and in some small ways has improved. Like, she's not physically violent anymore, but the way she explains it, this is because she is convinced that I want to bait her into hitting her so I can call the police and have her arrested again.

Did I mention that? At one point I had to call the police when she attacked me. I could have called them six-seven times before that ... .shoot, one time she dumped hot coffee all over my head and then walked to a nearby police station to complain about me ... .everything about her feelings is all about feeling threatened and survival and distortion and blaming me ... .I won't go on, because all of you know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, she was arrested and spent a few nights in a jail hospital because our psychiatrist actually came down to the court to plead for her before the judge. I could have left right then and there but decided to stay and try to help her. I was under the impression that it might be bipolar disorder and not BPD, and I was more confident in the notion of medicine and therapy. Sigh.

I had to look back on EVERYTHING. And it shocked me to realize how many red flags, how much irrationality, how many outbursts and underlying unresolved things I didn't see. Probably because I didn't want to see them. Abandonment issues and all!

In fact, that was and is the biggest -- not only -- problem in our relationship. Nothing ever got resolved, and I could never understand why, and I always blamed myself, because, yeah, she blamed me, too.

So: fast forward nearly two years. It's not a good situation. We still live together, but we really can't communicate, for the same old BPD reasons. She is less obsessed with my old porn habit, but still mentions it daily. She is much less physically violent -- hasn't laid a hand on me in a year, sometimes throws stuff. (It's sad that I consider that an improvement). She talks about filing separation papers. I've changed a lot through therapy. Found myself again. Regained my personal integrity and my sense of what's real and what's okay and not okay. I am learning to draw boundaries and slowly -- slowly -- reconnecting with everyone I drifted away from over my long, slow BPD partner slouch toward a nervous breakdown. (Married six years, been together more than 10). I've detached from all of her guilting and irrationality. I know what's hers and what's mine.

I know the time is coming when I will leave.

I believe that when I leave, she will attempt to hurt me. We own a condo and a car and a dog. No kids. We don't have ton of money. I don't really care about the money, I'd be happy as hell to just sell the condo. I'm going to miss the dog more than anything. He's amazing. But when I leave, I'm leaving. There are two things she's threatened to do, and even though I know she's all about power and control, and her threats can often be empty, I believe she is very capable of doing them, based on her past behavior and how her threats always come when she's splitting me ... .here's what she keeps in her back pocket:

1. Try to have police investigate me for child porn. This really scares me. Not because I was ever into child porn -- the idea disgusts me -- but because that is not something you want associated with your name, period. Still, I feel like she could possibly cause me a lot of problems, because when I first was getting therapy, I was totally unaware of her BPD and tried to confess as much of my online porn behavior to her as I could -- sharing the names of old online adult website identities I had used, a messenger account, etc. I thought that would help rebuild trust. Oops. Took me a while to realize it: a) trigger her into rages; b) gave her crumbs to follow to create a mental case against me and my general awfulness (in her mind).

2. Have me investigated for "bank fraud." I put it quotes because I find this one dubious, but still worrisome. When she was arrested and in jail, I added a login to her bank account that only she had access to -- the one where she had moved all of our joint money against my consent, and that was scary, by the way, she was dysregulated and hyper vindictive the whole time she was doing it, I wish to god I had saved her phone messages! -- so that I would have a way to access my half of our money if things went badly again. Long story short, at one point she started playing money power games again, I lost my cool and perspective and moved some money, she figured out how (because I stupidly told her trying to patch things up ... .I was still naive about BPD) and now believes I am John Dillinger in her more disordered times.

Well, I know this is long and drawn out -- and I'm sure all of you know I could go on and on -- but I'd just like some advice as to how to protect myself and start preparing for the end.

[stylebook]

Hi all,

I need some serious advice. Before I get to my current problem, please let me explain the background.

I'm 99 percent positive my wife has BPD, or some sort of PTSD, or something schizo-affective, or a combination thereof. Not simply from my own observation and experience, but also because two different therapists told me so. One's a psychologist, the other a psychiatrist, both worked with her -- and me -- before she dumped them both.

She's seeing another T now, but I'll have to get into that at another time.

The key event for me starting to understand what is going on with my life and marriage and wife came ... .from me. Me screwing up, actually. A few years ago, I got into posting nude pictures of myself online, and text chatting with women I met, and camming. I knew this was wrong, it left me horribly guilty, and yet I was on and off compelled by it. I didn't understand why, never connected it to the issues inside myself and my relationship.

So, two years back, my wife finds out about this. Things explode. I go into therapy and start digging into myself. I mean, from the first session: tons of stuff just comes out of me, like an oil spill. I start to realize that I've got an enormous amount of guilt, self-blame, low esteem, isolation, etc ... .just a really toxic cocktail of suppressed feelings, topped off with tons of anxiety.

It was hard, and for a while I even tried a low dose of psych medication to deal with the anxiety. But the truth was, I didn't need medication. I needed to understand and accept some hard truths and new ways of seeing old information. About myself, my wife and our relationship.

Anyway, my wife -- who in retrospect has shown a lot of BPD tendencies, thinking and behavior, only I never realized it -- immediately goes overtly nuts. First she's apoplectic, then crazy horny, then suicidal, then nearly homicidal, erratic all the while. I get her into therapy when she's suicidal -- because I'm scared out my mind -- and she starts taking medication ... .but she's still just hurting me in every way, hitting me, nearly getting us killed while we're driving, threatening me, trying to ruin my career, moving all of our savings to an account only she controlled, enraged with my family, obsessed with my online porn habit, digging through the entire trail I left online ... .all stuff that I first think maybe is just a semi-normal/reasonable reaction to me emotionally betraying her ... .being cheated on hurts, you know? ... .but then I start to realize, by looking hard at our past and talking to the Ts that are treating both of us, that there is more there. A lot more.

For myself, I realize that I feel pretty damn terrible inside, that I've just swallowed so much BPD stuff over the years that my porn habit was basically me trying to medicate myself and emotionally deal with the despression and anxiety that was growing like cancer out of the BPD stuff in my relationship. I realized I had some abandonment issues due to the death of a caretaker when I was very, very young, and that factored in to some of my learned helplessness. I realized that what I was looking for with the porn was affirmation and acceptance, and that those were the very things, the very needs, that were going unfulfilled and being abused in my marriage, and had been on and off for a very long time.

I stopped feeling unhealthy hate-yourself guilt and started to feel it in an appropriate way. I started to wake up. I started to feel like myself for the first time in years.

But things with my wife ... .not so positive. It was a little better at one point when she was on medication, but the side effects were way too much, very, legitimately frightening for her. Also, us seeing the same doctor wasn't a very good idea. In retrospect. She ultimately quit cold turkey. She still blames me for trying to drug and kill her -- her exact words -- started seeing a new T and in some small ways has improved. Like, she's not physically violent anymore, but the way she explains it, this is because she is convinced that I want to bait her into hitting her so I can call the police and have her arrested again.

Did I mention that? At one point I had to call the police when she attacked me. I could have called them six-seven times before that ... .shoot, one time she dumped hot coffee all over my head and then walked to a nearby police station to complain about me ... .everything about her feelings is all about feeling threatened and survival and distortion and blaming me ... .I won't go on, because all of you know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, she was arrested and spent a few nights in a jail hospital because our psychiatrist actually came down to the court to plead for her before the judge. I could have left right then and there but decided to stay and try to help her. I was under the impression that it might be bipolar disorder and not BPD, and I was more confident in the notion of medicine and therapy. Sigh.

I had to look back on EVERYTHING. And it shocked me to realize how many red flags, how much irrationality, how many outbursts and underlying unresolved things I didn't see. Probably because I didn't want to see them. Abandonment issues and all!

In fact, that was and is the biggest -- not only -- problem in our relationship. Nothing ever got resolved, and I could never understand why, and I always blamed myself, because, yeah, she blamed me, too.

So: fast forward nearly two years. It's not a good situation. We still live together, but we really can't communicate, for the same old BPD reasons. She is less obsessed with my old porn habit, but still mentions it daily. She is much less physically violent -- hasn't laid a hand on me in a year, sometimes throws stuff. (It's sad that I consider that an improvement). She talks about filing separation papers. I've changed a lot through therapy. Found myself again. Regained my personal integrity and my sense of what's real and what's okay and not okay. I am learning to draw boundaries and slowly -- slowly -- reconnecting with everyone I drifted away from over my long, slow BPD partner slouch toward a nervous breakdown. (Married six years, been together more than 10). I've detached from all of her guilting and irrationality. I know what's hers and what's mine.

I know the time is coming when I will leave.

I believe that when I leave, she will attempt to hurt me. We own a condo and a car and a dog. No kids. We don't have ton of money. I don't really care about the money, I'd be happy as hell to just sell the condo. I'm going to miss the dog more than anything. He's amazing. But when I leave, I'm leaving. There are two things she's threatened to do, and even though I know she's all about power and control, and her threats can often be empty, I believe she is very capable of doing them, based on her past behavior and how her threats always come when she's splitting me ... .here's what she keeps in her back pocket:

1. Try to have police investigate me for child porn. This really scares me. Not because I was ever into child porn -- the idea disgusts me -- but because that is not something you want associated with your name, period. Still, I feel like she could possibly cause me a lot of problems, because when I first was getting therapy, I was totally unaware of her BPD and tried to confess as much of my online porn behavior to her as I could -- sharing the names of old online adult website identities I had used, a messenger account, etc. I thought that would help rebuild trust. Oops. Took me a while to realize it: a) trigger her into rages; b) gave her crumbs to follow to create a mental case against me and my general awfulness (in her mind).

2. Have me investigated for "bank fraud." I put it quotes because I find this one dubious, but still worrisome. When she was arrested and in jail, I added a login to her bank account that only she had access to -- the one where she had moved all of our joint money against my consent, and that was scary, by the way, she was dysregulated and hyper vindictive the whole time she was doing it, I wish to god I had saved her phone messages! -- so that I would have a way to access my half of our money if things went badly again. Long story short, at one point she started playing money power games again, I lost my cool and perspective and moved some money, she figured out how (because I stupidly told her trying to patch things up ... .I was still naive about BPD) and now believes I am John Dillinger in her more disordered times.

Well, I know this is long and drawn out -- and I'm sure all of you know I could go on and on -- but I'd just like some advice as to how to protect myself and start preparing for the end.

[Disgruntled]

It sounds like you have made a lot of positive changes in your life and that you are very aware of yourself.   Unfortunatly, most pwBPD are not aware of how destructive their behavior is. 

As far as that bank thing goes, I would not worry about it at all.  You two are married.  You both share finances, I am sure that they can track that she pulled a large sum of money from your joint account and put it into her own account.  I can't say for sure, but I doubt a judge would even entertain it.

I understand why you are scared of the child porn thing.  You said you told her your online porn names because you thought it would help build trust.  I would be careful because she could get on your PC, look up and download some crazy child porn stuff under your online name... .just to set you up.  Just be careful... .pwBPD can be bery manipulative.   

[2010]

I know the time is coming when I will leave.

In her mind (and yours) you’ve already left. That wasn’t her decision. It was yours.  But rather than leave physically, you chose to leave emotionally and dive into a World of fantasy.

When you started posting nude photos of yourself and chatting on-line you gave the impression that you were single and available to these women- indeed, in your mind, you had already abandoned the reality of your spouse. She was not rewarding to you- you labeled her as withdrawing- so the only thing to do was to go on the internet and find replacements for the rewarding object. In turn, you withdrew from your Wife.

“I realized that what I was looking for with the porn was affirmation and acceptance, and that those were the very things, the very needs, that were going unfulfilled and being abused in my marriage, and had been on and off for a very long time.”

This statement shows blame for a withdrawing spouse and acting out behaviors in a porn addiction which you perceived as a rewarding.  Your fantasy identity on-line was more fulfilling than your (reality) identity at home.

Borderline Personality disorder is about rewarding and withdrawing behaviors.  It is about fantasy.

Your therapist needs to confront you on the matter and discuss why you are looking for “affirmation and acceptance” through electronic fantasy, i.e., false self attention.  In other words, this electronic porn is your fantasized way to stay in a marriage you deplore and rather then get a divorce, you chose “acting out” behaviors to punish your spouse- living in a fantasy World that made you feel better about yourself- if only for a few hours.

Meanwhile, your Spouse has to deal with reality- and you are afraid that she’ll make you face reality too.

Her discovery of this betrayal was just the tip of the iceberg. No one really knows what was going on in your fantasy World except you. That means you’ve got some holes to fill in as far as this information goes. Not owning up to it just leaves it to the restless imagination of others (notably your spouse) to decide and assume the worst.

The difficulty with being in love with someone who wants to have fantasy sex with other people is that it seems like they get off like the real thing.  The ongoing anxiety for her is that every time you hook up with someone else, there is a painful fear that you will eventually find someone to deeply connect to on all levels - sex and everything else.  At that time, lovingly or not, the foot that seems to be out the door takes another step away.   Having that as a continual threat to the relationship would nullify a lot of orgasmic affection in my book. That’s not a personality disorder, that’s common sense fear.  And you seem to blame her for everything, which is very self-righteous.  This coping mechanism of fantasy land- (propping yourself up with attention from strangers) is not her fault.  You can’t blame your bad “acting out” behaviors on her.  The posting of your genitals on-line was not a solution to your need for validation and you know it.

It is not your Wife’s fault that you cannot find affirmation and acceptance within yourself and instead had to secretly, covertly and craftily get your fix of attention like a drug.  This drug that you so desire comes from people you *don’t even know* and it’s in response to what you perceive as a punishing spouse. That’s fantasy. In the meantime, reality is right in the next room and you want to get back at her.

Rather than tell her you wanted out- you chose to immerse yourself in fantasy- not realizing that the reality was to defraud her and undermine the marriage. Instead of a firm boundary, and ending the marriage- you chose to take her on a wild ride, hide the information, and then get caught- causing her to frantically search for clues and assume the worst. She made several efforts to appease you during that time and try to give you what you wanted- her way of trying to control the uncontrollable- a reaction you felt was “overtly nuts.” This is gaslighting and projection on your part.  Without firm boundaries you enmeshed her in a hazy F.O.G. (fear obligation and guilt) in response to your behavior.

In your words, she was “apoplectic, then crazy horny, then suicidal, then nearly homicidal, erratic all the while,” and you found this to be outrageous.  Based on the amount of shame and humiliation you had unleashed upon her, these are her coping mechanisms- and they are NORMAL for anyone enmeshed with a cluster B personality.

Can this marriage be saved? You haven’t moved out, and by default, you’ve made your choice that it can. You are still there- still unaware of how you caused this dilemma.   Amplifying the events has, therefore, some very utilitarian purposes for your Wife if it gets her moving *out* and away from the marriage- confronting reality and progressing her own life instead of choosing fantasy and trying to control the out of control behavior and acting out responses from you. Putting the event in perspective goes a long way towards the commencement of a healing process.

Unfortunately, the difficulty with being in love with someone who wants to have fantasy sex with other people is that it seems like the real thing.  There’s an ongoing anxiety that every time you hook up with someone else, there is a painful fear that you will eventually find someone to deeply connect to on all levels - sex and everything else.   At which time, lovingly or not, the perception of your foot being out the door takes another step away.   Having that as a continual threat to the relationship would nullify a lot of orgasmic affection in my book. That’s not her personality disorder, that’s common sense fear in reaction to a Spouses bad behavior.

Trust is based on the ability to predict the future. It is not so much the act of betrayal that we react to – as it is the feeling that the very foundations of our world are crumbling. The marriage is no longer safe because it is no longer predictable.  Your Wife is suffering and you are suffering. The trust is gone.

People often disappoint and are not worthy of trust. Some people act arbitrarily, treacherously and viciously, or, worse, offhandedly. Your wife needs to know that she can trust you. Her watchful eye over you proves she does not. She needs to find someone who is going to help her follow through on the divorce and who is incapable of breaching trust.  She needs to find someone who doesn’t have much to gain from betraying her and is not likely to mislead her as the cause of the downfall of the marriage, which keeps her in the fight to prove her worth. Once apart, you will no longer be able to scapegoat her for your choices in life. That’s when reality comes to stay and fantasy leaves forever.

Let the lawyers decide what an equitable distribution is. That is their job. Good Luck on the rest.

[2010]

I know the time is coming when I will leave.

In her mind (and yours) you’ve already left. That wasn’t her decision. It was yours.  But rather than leave physically, you chose to leave emotionally and dive into a World of fantasy.

When you started posting nude photos of yourself and chatting on-line you gave the impression that you were single and available to these women- indeed, in your mind, you had already abandoned the reality of your spouse. She was not rewarding to you- you labeled her as withdrawing- so the only thing to do was to go on the internet and find replacements for the rewarding object. In turn, you withdrew from your Wife.

“I realized that what I was looking for with the porn was affirmation and acceptance, and that those were the very things, the very needs, that were going unfulfilled and being abused in my marriage, and had been on and off for a very long time.”

This statement shows blame for a withdrawing spouse and acting out behaviors in a porn addiction which you perceived as a rewarding.  Your fantasy identity on-line was more fulfilling than your (reality) identity at home.

Borderline Personality disorder is about rewarding and withdrawing behaviors.  It is about fantasy.

Your therapist needs to confront you on the matter and discuss why you are looking for “affirmation and acceptance” through electronic fantasy, i.e., false self attention.  In other words, this electronic porn is your fantasized way to stay in a marriage you deplore and rather then get a divorce, you chose “acting out” behaviors to punish your spouse- living in a fantasy World that made you feel better about yourself- if only for a few hours.

Meanwhile, your Spouse has to deal with reality- and you are afraid that she’ll make you face reality too.

Her discovery of this betrayal was just the tip of the iceberg. No one really knows what was going on in your fantasy World except you. That means you’ve got some holes to fill in as far as this information goes. Not owning up to it just leaves it to the restless imagination of others (notably your spouse) to decide and assume the worst.

The difficulty with being in love with someone who wants to have fantasy sex with other people is that it seems like they get off like the real thing.  The ongoing anxiety for her is that every time you hook up with someone else, there is a painful fear that you will eventually find someone to deeply connect to on all levels - sex and everything else.  At that time, lovingly or not, the foot that seems to be out the door takes another step away.   Having that as a continual threat to the relationship would nullify a lot of orgasmic affection in my book. That’s not a personality disorder, that’s common sense fear.  And you seem to blame her for everything, which is very self-righteous.  This coping mechanism of fantasy land- (propping yourself up with attention from strangers) is not her fault.  You can’t blame your bad “acting out” behaviors on her.  The posting of your genitals on-line was not a solution to your need for validation and you know it.

It is not your Wife’s fault that you cannot find affirmation and acceptance within yourself and instead had to secretly, covertly and craftily get your fix of attention like a drug.  This drug that you so desire comes from people you *don’t even know* and it’s in response to what you perceive as a punishing spouse. That’s fantasy. In the meantime, reality is right in the next room and you want to get back at her.

Rather than tell her you wanted out- you chose to immerse yourself in fantasy- not realizing that the reality was to defraud her and undermine the marriage. Instead of a firm boundary, and ending the marriage- you chose to take her on a wild ride, hide the information, and then get caught- causing her to frantically search for clues and assume the worst. She made several efforts to appease you during that time and try to give you what you wanted- her way of trying to control the uncontrollable- a reaction you felt was “overtly nuts.” This is gaslighting and projection on your part.  Without firm boundaries you enmeshed her in a hazy F.O.G. (fear obligation and guilt) in response to your behavior.

In your words, she was “apoplectic, then crazy horny, then suicidal, then nearly homicidal, erratic all the while,” and you found this to be outrageous.  Based on the amount of shame and humiliation you had unleashed upon her, these are her coping mechanisms- and they are NORMAL for anyone enmeshed with a cluster B personality.

Can this marriage be saved? You haven’t moved out, and by default, you’ve made your choice that it can. You are still there- still unaware of how you caused this dilemma.   Amplifying the events has, therefore, some very utilitarian purposes for your Wife if it gets her moving *out* and away from the marriage- confronting reality and progressing her own life instead of choosing fantasy and trying to control the out of control behavior and acting out responses from you. Putting the event in perspective goes a long way towards the commencement of a healing process.

Trust is based on the ability to predict the future. It is not so much the act of betrayal that we react to – as it is the feeling that the very foundations of our world are crumbling. The marriage is no longer safe because it is no longer predictable.  Your Wife is suffering and you are suffering. The trust is gone.

People often disappoint and are not worthy of trust. Some people act arbitrarily, treacherously and viciously, or, worse, offhandedly. Your wife needs to know that she can trust you. Her watchful eye over you proves she does not. She needs to find someone who is going to help her follow through on the divorce and who is incapable of breaching trust.  She needs to find someone who doesn’t have much to gain from betraying her and is not likely to mislead her as the cause of the downfall of the marriage, which keeps her in the fight to prove her worth. Once apart, you will no longer be able to scapegoat her for your choices in life. That’s when reality comes to stay and fantasy leaves forever.

Let the lawyers decide what an equitable distribution is. That is their job. Good Luck on the rest.

[2010]

Oddly enough, this posted twice. I dont suppose it would hurt to re-read it a second time- but I would expect it would be much more painful upon a second read. Best wishes and hope for a better outcome on this.   

[Intent_to_learn]

2010, even your painful reads are gems for us all. We know you have been in the hot seat yourself.  It's humbling but necessary.  Been there, still doing that.   

[stylebook]

2010,

Thanks for the response. Very thoughtful. Covers a lot of the same ground I've explored with my therapist and thought through on my own. I suspect you have a therapeutic background or education; I believe there's a lot I can learn from you.

Can I ask you some follow up questions?

1. In her mind (and yours) you’ve already left. That wasn’t her decision. It was yours.

I feel very aware that my actions and my decisions are mine alone, and not my wife's. Why did you feel it was important to emphasize this to me?

2. When you started posting nude photos of yourself and chatting on-line you gave the impression that you were single and available to these women- indeed, in your mind, you had already abandoned the reality of your spouse. She was not rewarding to you- you labeled her as withdrawing- so the only thing to do was to go on the internet and find replacements for the rewarding object. In turn, you withdrew from your Wife.

Can you elaborate on this? It sounds as though you are fitting both my behaviors and your perception of what was happening in my mind into a diagnostic model.

My thoughts and feelings about my behavior and motivation -- my self-perception -- doesn't align with what you wrote. As such, I think there's an opportunity for me to learn something here.

3. This statement shows blame for a withdrawing spouse and acting out behaviors in a porn addiction which you perceived as a rewarding.  Your fantasy identity on-line was more fulfilling than your (reality) identity at home.

I don't feel that my wife is responsible in any way for my behavior. My behavior is my responsibility. When I read over what I wrote, I can understand how it can be read as blaming. That wasn't my intent in writing it.

I do believe there was a connection between my wife's history of thinking and behavior -- which is consistent with everything I have learned about BPD/PTSD, and not something I elaborated on -- and my emotional and mental state. In short, I believe her actions had a significant effect on me over a long period of time.

I don't believe that connection is the equivalent of causation for my behavior. Is blaming the only way to read my statement? Can you explain and respond?

4. Borderline Personality disorder is about rewarding and withdrawing behaviors.  It is about fantasy.

Your therapist needs to confront you on the matter and discuss why you are looking for “affirmation and acceptance” through electronic fantasy, i.e., false self attention.  In other words, this electronic porn is your fantasized way to stay in a marriage you deplore and rather then get a divorce, you chose “acting out” behaviors to punish your spouse- living in a fantasy World that made you feel better about yourself- if only for a few hours.

Meanwhile, your Spouse has to deal with reality- and you are afraid that she’ll make you face reality too..

I feel subtly gaslit here. Understand: I've asked myself the question: do I have BPD? NPD? Does my porn behavior and the thoughts and feelings around that indicate that? I've asked my therapist the same thing. We've talked about it. I've read extensively. I've come to the conclusion that everything I know about myself, my relationships with others and my behavior over the course of my life is not consistent with BPD or NPD, but is consistent with other people who have been in long-term relationships with people suffering from BPD or similar symptoms.

Of course, it's always possible that I'm self-desulsional, unable to see my own reality clearly. How can someone who is mentally ill realize they are mentally ill? Quite a rabbit hole.

Anyway, all of that is context for what I'd like to ask you:

a. Why do you feel my therapist hasn't confronted me or discussed with me why I was looking for "affirmation and acceptance" through electronic fantasy? Was it something about my tone or what I wrote?

It's actually something we've discussed a lot.

b. Why do you feel my porn behavior was a way to stay in a marriage that I deplore ... .and that it was a way to punish my spouse?

I feel my behaviors were aimed at accomplishing an effect, but neither of these. I've thought about both of them, and discussed both with my therapist. I don't deplore my marriage. I care about it deeply and want it to be healthy. I feel the same way about myself and my wife. I do believe some of my wife's behavior has been unhealthy; some of my behavior has been unhealthy; our enmeshment has been unhealthy. I believe I can change the latter two and I am in the process of doing so.

As for punishing my wife, I dug deep on that with my therapist. Was I being passive-aggressive? Did I want to hurt her? Ultimately, no. I wanted to not feel hurt myself; I did not hope or expect to accomplish this by hurting her as a punishment or deterrent in some sort of power struggle.

However, I did choose a behavior that was deeply hurtful to her, a behavior I knew would be hurtful to her. I chose a behavior that was deeply hurtful to me, one I knew would be hurtful to me. That was and is disconcerting to me -- I do not have a pattern of making hurtful or self-destructive choices in life -- and wanting to understand why I chose that was the single biggest reason I entered therapy.

c. One of the great and painful - I would say tragic, but this isn't Aristophanes -- ironies of my porn behavior is that it did not make me feel better about myself -- it made me feel worse. You hit the nail on the head when you said "a few hours," because I feel that is what you were implying. Do you have any more thoughts about that?

d. Why do you feel that I am afraid that my spouse is going to make me face reality? Again, I do not feel self-delusional -- and again, hit_, who does? -- so I have a hard time understanding what you mean by this.

5. Her discovery of this betrayal was just the tip of the iceberg. No one really knows what was going on in your fantasy World except you. That means you’ve got some holes to fill in as far as this information goes. Not owning up to it just leaves it to the restless imagination of others (notably your spouse) to decide and assume the worst.

The difficulty with being in love with someone who wants to have fantasy sex with other people is that it seems like they get off like the real thing.  The ongoing anxiety for her is that every time you hook up with someone else, there is a painful fear that you will eventually find someone to deeply connect to on all levels - sex and everything else.  At that time, lovingly or not, the foot that seems to be out the door takes another step away.  

This is very consistent with my current experience with my wife. Also, it is consistent on a more intermittent -- and, say, 20 percent less intense -- basis with my past experience with my wife, going back 10-plus years, long, long before I engaged in my porn behavior or even had awareness that such behavior was possible.

You use the word fear. Very apt. I have seen that time and again with my wife. Fear. Leading to bouts of explosive anger and irrational thinking. Some previous triggers of this sort of fear have been me calling her five minutes late, me being 15 minutes late to a dinner, me going to see a movie with a female friend in college, me talking to another female at a party, etc. I once thought my wife's behavior was just tempermental, almost random, but looking back, I see that a common triggering denominator was any behavior by me that could be interperted as abandoning or rejecting, regardless of my intent.

Of course, the end result was fear for me as well. Walking on eggshells. Me choosing to be enmeshed and co-dependent, in part because I chose not to set healthy boundaries nor confront my own fear of abandonment and rejection.

Partially an aside, but one of the things I still feel very badly about, and appropriately so -- I say appropriate because it's something I had to work very hard on not to feel a self-defeating level of guilt about -- is that my porn behavior really hit my wife where it hurts the most. I mean: it would hurt any spouse tremendously. But my behavior hit her in an area where I perceive her to be especially vulnerable to pain.

Anyway, all of the above is me adding context to my question: do you have any advice how I can help my wife with the feelings and thoughts you describe? How I can be a healthy, positive influence?

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6. Having that as a continual threat to the relationship would nullify a lot of orgasmic affection in my book.

Don't understand what you're saying here. Can you explain?

7. That’s not a personality disorder, that’s common sense fear.  And you seem to blame her for everything, which is very self-righteous.  This coping mechanism of fantasy land- (propping yourself up with attention from strangers) is not her fault.  You can’t blame your bad “acting out” behaviors on her.  The posting of your genitals on-line was not a solution to your need for validation and you know it.

Two things:

a. Don't understand why you are so quick to imply that I am gaslighting my wife. Can you explain? I understand that you're making assessments off of limited information. Maybe that's all it is.

b. Don't understand why you keep telling me that I'm blaming her, and why you keep emphasizing that my behavior is my responsibility and my fault. Can you explain?

c. Don't understand why you are so quickly and so forcefully labeling me as self-righteous. Morally speaking, I feel my behavior was abhorrent. I always have. That feeling is a big part of my motivation for psychologically understanding myself and my choices and learning why I made bad ones and how to make better ones. Anyway, I actually feel as though I've struck some sort of personal nerve with you. I could be completely wrong about that. It's just my hunch, largely based on you ending a graph with "you know it." It feels like a verbal finger wag. Can you explain?

8. Rather than tell her you wanted out- you chose to immerse yourself in fantasy- not realizing that the reality was to defraud her and undermine the marriage. Instead of a firm boundary, and ending the marriage- you chose to take her on a wild ride, hide the information, and then get caught- causing her to frantically search for clues and assume the worst. She made several efforts to appease you during that time and try to give you what you wanted- her way of trying to control the uncontrollable- a reaction you felt was “overtly nuts.” This is gaslighting and projection on your part.  Without firm boundaries you enmeshed her in a hazy F.O.G. (fear obligation and guilt) in response to your behavior.

Couple of questions:

a. I think I asked this already, but why are you so sure I wanted out? I can understand that my porn behavior indicates that -- I'm not dumb -- but are you convinced that is the only thing it can indicate? I'm genuinely asking because your perspective is so different than mine.

b. I'm not sure why you feel I don't and didn't understand that my porn behavior and the hiding thereof would undermine my relationship with my wife. I was aware. I chose it anyway. I was very conflicted about it. Again -- a major thing I wanted to understand through therapy. I am sure I sound defensive, but I would honestly just like to hear why you feel this way, because the differences are where I can learn something new.

c. "She made several efforts to appease me" -- this is very interesting. Can you explain where you're drawing this from? I can understand how her being temporarily very sexual with me could be an effort to appease her perception of my sexual needs. In retrospect, that leaves me with a deep sadness. I have a very hard time understanding how her efforts to shame and humiliate me with my family, with my employers and in public, as well as her repeated physical violence toward me, her verbal abuse and her attempt to harm herself were efforts to appease me? Is it possible that she perceived them as such? Please explain.

d. "Her way of trying to control the uncontrollable" -- I'm not inside my wife's head, but my perception is that this is a pretty accurate -- if not complete -- description of her motivation. Do you have any additional thoughts about this?

e. Can you please explain how I enmeshed her in F.O.G.? I'm very, very familiar with that concept, and when I look back at my wife's behavior over the course of our relationship, as well as her behavior in other intimate relationships and her behavior following my porn behavior, I feel as though things have actually worked the other way around. Am I not understanding something about this concept? Am I missing something important about my wife's perception of things?

9. In your words, she was “apoplectic, then crazy horny, then suicidal, then nearly homicidal, erratic all the while,” and you found this to be outrageous.  Based on the amount of shame and humiliation you had unleashed upon her, these are her coping mechanisms- and they are NORMAL for anyone enmeshed with a cluster B personality.

Oh, okay, you are diagnosing me here as cluster B. Can you explain why?

Second, why did you use the word "outrageous" to describe my feelings about my wife's behavior? I would use the words "confused" and "fearful."

Third, can you help me understand:

a. Why my wife may feel shame about my choices and behavior? I believe the shame should be my department, since I'm responsible for myself. However, I think you are onto something here.

b. How I can be of any kind of healthy help to her with regards to her feelings of shame and humiliation?

Fourth, I don't understand why you are practically yelling at me (All-Caps) about your perception that I am gaslighting my spouse and insisting to me that she is normal. I don't care about labeling people normal or abnormal. I care about understanding things so I can make them as healthy as possible. Like everything else psychology, I find terms and systems of understanding like BPD, Cluster B, etc, useful only as far as they are, well, useful to any individual situation.

I'm the person living this situation. In the above text, you're reacting very, very strongly and assuredly to a very incomplete amount of information that I provided -- you seem to me to be implying that I feel things I don't feel, think things I don't think and have so little awareness of my own situation compared to your assessment that you need to use all caps to enlighten me.

Again, I feel I hit a personal nerve. Did I?

10. Can this marriage be saved? You haven’t moved out, and by default, you’ve made your choice that it can. You are still there- still unaware of how you caused this dilemma. [/b] 

This is another reason I feel I hit a personal nerve. The question "can this marriage be saved?" doesn't address anything I was asking about.

Why does me not moving out exclusively mean that I am making a choice the marriage can be saved?

I probably sound like a broken record, but why do you believe I am unaware of how I caused my current dilemma?

11. Amplifying the events has, therefore, some very utilitarian purposes for your Wife if it gets her moving *out* and away from the marriage- confronting reality and progressing her own life instead of choosing fantasy and trying to control the out of control behavior and acting out responses from you. Putting the event in perspective goes a long way towards the commencement of a healing process.

This is really interesting to me. First, can you explain what you mean by amplifying the events?

Second, can you explain and elaborate on the whole paragraph?

What do you mean by confronting reality? By trying to control the "out of control behavior and acting out responses from me?" By putting the event in perspective?

I also think you're onto something here that is a longstanding issue and, to my perception, a big reason my wife and I have never experienced any sort of healing process when either one of us has felt hurt ... .at least, not in the way I have experienced putting events in perspective and healing processes with every other individual I've had a relationship with over the course of my life.

12. Trust is based on the ability to predict the future. It is not so much the act of betrayal that we react to – as it is the feeling that the very foundations of our world are crumbling. The marriage is no longer safe because it is no longer predictable.  Your Wife is suffering and you are suffering. The trust is gone.

This is so true. After a lot of therapy and thought, my perception and understanding is that it always has been true to an unhealthy extent in my relationship with my wife -- I perceive that many of her behaviors that have been hurtful to me have come out of her feelings of mistrust/feeling the world is crumbling/predicting a painful future/unsafety ... .feelings that are reactions to my behavior, from calling five minutes late to porn ... .and that my inner emotional reaction to her behavior has also been a form of distrust ... .that is, a distrust that I will be safe myself.

Any thoughts?

13. People often disappoint and are not worthy of trust. Some people act arbitrarily, treacherously and viciously, or, worse, offhandedly. Your wife needs to know that she can trust you. Her watchful eye over you proves she does not. She needs to find someone who is going to help her follow through on the divorce and who is incapable of breaching trust.  She needs to find someone who doesn’t have much to gain from betraying her and is not likely to mislead her as the cause of the downfall of the marriage, which keeps her in the fight to prove her worth. Once apart, you will no longer be able to scapegoat her for your choices in life. That’s when reality comes to stay and fantasy leaves forever.

You may be very right about my wife's needs. What if I told you that you are more right than you know? That she has never found anyone in her whole life that she feels she can trust? That distrust and feeling unsafe are core struggles/issues for her? Both of these things I believe to be true, not based on my inferences, but on her telling me and others so, repeatedly, over a long period of time, and her behavior seeming consistent with that.

I have no desire to "mislead" my wife as the cause of the downfall of our marriage. You accuse me of scapegoating her. Again: why?

Look, there is a lot I haven't shared, and I feel as though it's leading you to misread the situation, and that sucks, because you seem very, very sharp and I feel you have a lot of helpful advice and wisdom to offer.

I appreciate your well-wishes. It didn't cause me pain to read your note. It did leave me perplexed -- mostly along the lines of, "this poster is whip-smart, and yet seems almost passionately convinced that I am delusional about my own life."

Anyway, that perplexedness is why I have so many questions. If there's one thing I've learned from therapy, it's that self-knoweldge is always a work in progress.