Did my ex have BPD?

[nybeauty02]

Hi all. I am new to this board, and just wanted your input on a few things. Just a little background on me - I am a 25 year old with her Masters in Psychology. I regularly see a therapist due to some FOO issues. Therefore, I am psychologically aware of myself and others.

For 6 weeks, I dated a "great" guy. Let me just say that going into this, I knew we were very different. He's at a "lost" place in his life but since we are only 25 and unmarried, it's okay to be a little lost in my opinion. Despite that, he treated me like an absolute queen. Looking back on it, I'd say he was actually a little clingy. He wanted to see me all the time. He jumped into this r/s with both feet but I kept my guard up for the first month or so. He was begging to meet my family, so I introduced him. We made plans for things to do in the upcoming months. When I finally let my guard down and got attached, I could tell he had something on his mind. I realized now that the fantasy gave way to reality and he was starting to panic that he wouldn't be able to "get me what I deserve". I see now that it's over that he was looking for a way out and the opportunity presented itself when I broke it off due to his lack of plans for the future. I didn't want to - I was very upset but we both agreed it was best. He said he wouldn't want to waste my time anyway and I deserve better. He told me though if I changed my mind to "please call him". He said repeatedly that he didn't want this to be the end for us - I suppose he was saying when and if he gets his life together, he'd like to give it another shot.

Make a long story short, the next day, I had Dumper's Remorse and called him. After all we had 6 amazing weeks together without even a bump in the road. He never answered the phone nor called me back. Obviously, as soon as I realized he was ignoring me, I stopped trying. I was devastated.

My therapist, upon hearing the story, said he sounded like he had characteristics of BPD due to his extreme reaction. So I've been doing some research... .

    * Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment Oh god, yes. He clearly has a fear of abandonment and his father abandoned him at age 12.

    * A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation He's had the same friends for years and years, but I do feel like he lives in a world of black and white.

    * Identity disturbance, such as a significant and persistent unstable self-image or sense of self Used to be overweight. Now has a nice body and religiously goes to the gym every single day in addition to running, playing sports, etc... .

    * Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating) Addicted to weed and alcohol, in my opinion. Also, is very impulsive. Told me before that he bounced around alot from job to job to job. Like to get "spontaneous tattoos" also.

    * Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior I know nothing about this.

    * Emotional instability due to significant reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days) No mood swings really I saw in 6 weeks but his reaction after we broke up was totally extreme.

    * Chronic feelings of emptiness Yes, he had those - he communicated that to me.

    * Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights) Never saw any of this.

    * Transient, stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms N/A

I know he's not full-blown BPD. And I know most of you are thinking "well you broke up and he stopped talking to you. That's what happens." - Yes, I am well aware of that. But it was totally extreme! This was a guy that was borderline obsessed with me and then he doesn't return my phone calls to speak to him? *NORMAL* people do not act that way. Even if he changed his mind, that's perfectly acceptable and fine, but normal people do not run like that. ESPECIALLY when he said to call him. In fact, it was *me* that said I'd be more comfortable with no contact and he fought me on it and said he doesn't want to do that... .and that's exactly what he did! It was like he built me up and built me up and BOOM! Then overnight I was nothing. Literally one morning he was making me breakfast in bed, and the next, he wouldn't answer my calls.

This isn't about trying to get him back. Trust me - that ship has sailed and I'm moving on and doing quite well (now)! However, I am naturally curious how someone could go from 1 extreme to the next, and I'd also like to protect myself for next time.

Also, I just wanted to say that he had a long string of "crazy" ex-gfs - his car had been vandalized by more than 1 female. That would show an obvious pattern of this behavior right? Idealizing and devaluing?

Also, do people with BPD reappear? I'd like to be prepared if that's the case.

Thanks for your input.

[havana]

Hi nybeauty02

I'm glad that you found us. this is a place with great resourses & people. We have all been in your shoes.

*NORMAL* people do not act that way

No they don't but you explained that he might be a person with BPD.

do people with BPD reappear

They quite often do reappear.

[jpounce]

Hi nybeauty02

I cant diagnose anybody but remember, BPD is not a binary state. A person doesnt have to have all the symptoms to be considered suffering from (and so making us suffer   ) from BPD. Read these boards and you'll find many similar stories. Especially the part about going from love to hate or indifference real quick. My uBPDxgf did that . She went from being absolutely head over heals in love with me to the point where it seemed like a borderline obsession, and I never felt so loved or in love, to almost overnight being so cold towards me that ya could feel the chill from across the room (we had not been fighting or anything),   to complete indifference. And simply walked away, wouldnt answer calls, letters,texts. Even sent 3 dozen long stem roses and a card. Got no response. I spent a lot of time trying to make sense of an illogical situation. I know how ya must feel. These people dont react to things the way us "normies" would because they're brain is just wired differently than ours. So things that we experience that might evoke strong emotions from within us, they could experience and feel little emotion about it at all. I'm almost a year out now, it gets easier to understand and accept what happened with time,distance and educating yourself about BPD. The people on these board are a great source of knowledge, empathy, and support. Hope you read more and post more if you like. We are all here for one another.  

                                                                                                            jpounce

[nybeauty02]

Yes, it is very clear now that he has BPD characteristics. Well complete indifference makes sense since he has had a string of girls go nuts over him. I know girls can get crazy, but I have plenty of guy friends and none of them have had a female vandalize their car, and my ex had more than one!

I personally don't think he'll be back. However, I only reached out right after we broke up and not since (over 2 weeks ago). And he's clearly unpredictable. I would never take him back, in fact I doubt I'd answer his contact attempts if he made them, but my friends tell me that it's better to be prepared.

It was like the second he knew I was unhappy, he couldn't get out fast enough... .clearly that's a "let me leave you before I am left" situation.

When they come back, what do they even say about disappearing on you like that? That's why I don't think he'll be back - he won't want the confrontation of having to explain himself. And it's a strange situation because he have mutual friends (that's how we met)... .

[havana]

he won't want the confrontation of having to explain himself

From what I have seen on the board they act like nothing happened.

[nybeauty02]

I can't express how much your replies mean to me. I feel like I can take a sigh of relief. I posted on a dating board and people bashed me - they said I was a stuck up suburbanite who took up with the kid from the "wrong side of the tracks" as a novelty and then dumped him coldly. That's not what happened at all! They all said I deserved what I got and I beat myself up thinking I did. It wasn't until my friends, family and therapist knocked some sense to me that emotionally healthy people don't cut you off like that. I left voicemails crying and begging him to talk to me (right after the fact). Nothing. No response. Nothing. How could someone be so loving, caring and warm and then so cold? I realized something is off. Like I said, even if he realized he didn't want to  be with me, that's TOTALLY FINE (I'm a big girl!), but they don't just ignore you like that.

Is it from your experiences that those with BPD enjoy the reactions from others once they turn cold? He always told me about "crazy exes" and looking back on it, it seems as if he was almost BRAGGING. I am guessing if this is his pattern, he's expecting me to do the same, except I haven't and am not going to.

I don't doubt I said things that MAY have hurt his feelings the night we broke up. But I didn't call him names or tell him anything he didn't really know. It was more like "you don't even have a plan for your life" sort of thing.

I still agree at age 25, it's okay to be a little lost. But a 25 year old with no car, job, or money isn't lost - he's avoiding LIFE and I see that now. Is that typical of BPDers?

[havana]

There really isn't anything typical of pwBPD. Some never work, some go from job to job & some are very successful.

I'm not sure I would buy the crazy ex stories. That is a fairly common characteristic.

You might hear from him tomorrow or never.

people don't cut you off like that

Most people don't but this is exactly what we tell people to do here when they are leaving. Total NC.

[jpounce]

I've been through the whole crazy BPD cycle twice now. Though we've been apart for close to a year now, and I doubt I'll hear from her again. she did this once before after about 4 months of a heaven on earth relationship she went from love to what seemed like thinly veiled anger to just gone... ."poof" . Then came back around 3 months later almost as if nothing happened. I asked what I had done to make her just walk away and she said; "What makes you so sure you did anything? I've just got alot of isssues"  That should have sent up a bunch of  |>. But I was so in love with this girl,      I just was glad we were together  again, and didnt push the issue. Only to have the exact same thing happen again after about 4 months, and she was gone again, without explanation. All very very odd.

[jpounce]

Quote from nybeauty02

            "I still agree at age 25, it's okay to be a little lost. But a 25 year old with no car, job, or money isn't lost - he's avoiding LIFE and I see that now. Is that typical of BPDers?"

     It seemed to be with mine, lost her job and for some reason it really didnt seem to bug her that much, I mean there was no sense of urgency to start looking harder for one even a year later. 30 something and living with her mom and stepdad, no money and no plan and it didnt seem to bother her. I still care about her deeply and am not trying to trash her. But that was my perspective on it.

[nybeauty02]

Havana, so you've heard other people here talk about how their BPDers claimed to have "crazy exes"?

JP, yes it's very odd to say the least. It's very hard having no answers. I introduced this guy to my family, at HIS urging, something I never ever do! So it's kind of like he humiliated me. I remember that first day he was ignoring me, my friends said "you better start calling around. Clearly something happened to him" because no one could believe he would do that to me. It was the total opposite of what I had seen from him.

Do you guys think they get off on the reactions?

[Hazelnut]

nybeauty-- I'm also doing the post-mortem ":)id he have BPD?" thing, since I experienced a break-up that went something like this:

HIM: "Hazelnut, you are so great! I missed you so much! *** tons of kisses for Hazelnut*** "Today's going to be fun, let's do ABC! Hey, later on let's go to XYZ! And then let's do such-and-such! Hazelnut, you're so sweet! You know where we should go sometime? Such-and-such place!"

ME: "Yes, we should do that, that sounds fun!" ***kiss kiss kiss***

HIMsilence)

ME: "Everything ok?"

HIM: (like a robot) "I don't want to do this with you anymore."

ME: Um... .What? Why?

HIM: (silence, and then departure)

So all I can say is, I really do think it's about them, not us. Hard to accept, but imagine all the anxiety swirling around in their heads. By not responding to you, he's in control, I guess.

I posted on a dating board and people bashed me

Don't ask outsiders/regular people. They don't know him. They don't know BPD.

About the job thing with your 25-yr-old ex, my guess is it could be: 1. he's too depressed to work, 2. he doesn't have a strong sense of who he is/what he wants to do, 3. his thoughts are too scattered to pick a career and focus, 4. fear of rejection, 5. imagining past co-workers have been out to get him, 6.spotty work history/possible hospitalization make a for a bad resume, 7. who knows?

[nybeauty02]

Hazel, thanks for responding!

Well, I broke up with him as I stated but he FOUGHT me on it. Then he finally accepted it and said he still didn't wanna close the door (aka take a "break" and not a "break up". Then POOF! He was gone.

At the risk of sounding conceited, I'm a girl who has the full package and if he thinks I'm sitting around waiting for him, then he's out of his mind. And yes, he did treat me well, but ya know what? I don't want to be with someone who is going to do this to me anyway. I have to admit though - I am wondering if I'll ever get the chance to ignore him like he did to me. It's such a slap in the face! I guess there's no way to tell.

I don't think I came off looking "bad" or "crazy", and that comforts me. Sure, I called a bunch of times immediately following but why wouldn't I? I was upset. After I realized he was truly ignoring me, I stopped and it's been stone cold silence from me ever since. I'm not even sure he'd still ignore me right now but I will never ever try.

Sure, I was dying on the inside but he didn't know that. That's why I think he may like to gauge the reactions because clearly, this is something he's done to other females (exhibit A: his vandalized car).

[jpounce]

   I really dont know if they get off on the reactions. I sometimes wonder if she could even articulate the reasons for her own behavior. I dont think they're intentionally monsters. Theres a person in there somewhere. But i think that when they're in the middle of full blown BPD crazy, they likely feel that their actions make perfect sense given their perspective (disordered though it may be) at that moment. I think in moments of clarity, they likely regret their behavior and the disasters they leave in their wake.( I cant do it justice with words.For me,  I kinda felt like I had been emotionally raped.  ? ) But they dont want to face the possibility that they're  responsible for the way things end, so they quickly bury it or re write how things ended in their mind so that they can feel ok about themselves.

  Mine once a couple of times, in the honeymoon phase, when we were getting along really really well asked: "So, what would it take to push you away? You know, to the point where you wouldn"t want to be with me? " I'd just laugh and say" I dont think you could do it" I once asked her why she'd ask such  a question. She didnt really answer. She just kind of laughed and said "Oh believe me, if the time ever comes... ." and then changed the subject. We got along really well for a couple more months and then I guess I got split black, and she was gone.  ?

 

  I dont think she planned it, or that it was something she took delight in. I think she just likely had been through the cycles enough times to know how things were likely gonna end. I could be wrong. I'm no expert and don't claim to be.That's just "The world according to jpounce" today.

[juner]

He could either be testing you or trying to punish. In a way, he's trying to make you feel as bad as he does about himself all the time. Don't fall for the dance. I think you're wise to get out and stay out while you can. The way he idealized you, meeting the parents etc., planted the seeds for feeling guilty later. Don't buy into it. Be strong and trust your instincts. 

[2010]

Congratulations on your Master’s degree in psychology. As you know the field well and studied hard, Borderline personality disorder is an attachment struggle. The Kleinian school of thought shows the genesis comes from the disorder of the SELF.

There are basically two subtypes of adult attachment that can apply here; the avoidant/dismissing and the ambivalent/preoccupied.  The two subtypes are differentiated on the basis of their defensive regulation style, which roughly approximate either avoidant/dismissive (= avoidant) and the ambivalent/preoccupied (= anxious) The avoidant type uses avoidance mechanisms to deal with intimacy and the anxious subtype moves toward the other, seeking contact or interaction, until he or she feels calm, soothed, and fused with.

Both have dysregulated affect, transference acting out, mirroring, and relate to others through Narcissistic false selves.  In therapy, Borderlines are able to be introspective and self-reflecting and authentic when (and if) they become aware of their acting out behaviors and false selves.  

When I finally let my guard down and got attached, the fantasy gave way to reality and he was starting to panic that he wouldn't be able to "get me what I deserve". He was looking for a way out and the opportunity presented itself when I broke it off due to his lack of plans for the future.  In fact, it was *me* that said I'd be more comfortable with no contact and he fought me on it and said he doesn't want to do that... .and that's exactly what he did!

You broke it off. Why are you upset now that he’s taken you on your word?

I broke it off due to his lack of plans for the future. The next day, I had Dumper's Remorse and called him. After all we had 6 amazing weeks together. He never answered the phone nor called me back.  I was devastated.

You have to respect his defensive maneuvering away from the relationship to protect and soothe his hurt SELF.  Why are you unwilling to allow him that control?. He needs to protect himself from your ambivalence.

“Clinically, the individual with a healthy real self feels a sense of continuity, stability, and mutuality in the experience of the self *with and without* others, maturely attached and comfortably self-regulating.  So, too, with couples that are able to be intimate and separate.”~Masterson

[nybeauty02]

Juner, thanks soo much!   That's EXACTLY how I feel - like I'm being punished. My mother said "someone who isn't angry with you doesn't ignore you like that". I think I just told him things he didn't want to hear and now he's making me pay for it. But it's okay - I tried to reach out, he didn't respond, so I shrugged my shoulders and moved on. When we started dating, I said I was very much a "cut your losses and move on type of girl" and he'd always reply with "wow that shows you are really strong", so I kind of feel like he's saying "let's see how tough she is". I don't take kindly to being punished by men. My father always punished me and took things away from me when I was "bad" and did the whole silent treatment. Then I dated a guy with full-blown NPD for 10 years! (yes, do the math, I'm only 25!). It's like my ex (the BPDer) thinks he's some sort of God's gift to do this to me. I'm the one who has everything going for her, he has NOTHING and I *still* wanted to stand by him. I'm trying to stay humble but it's hard when you were punked out by such a loser!

JPounce, I too think that he knew that we'd never work so he figured he should abandon me before I could hurt him any further. However, he couldn't get a girl like me if he tried (not that he wasn't a good guy, just total lack of credentials), so I suspect he will kick himself at some point.

[nybeauty02]

2010, I was waiting for this post. LOL

Yes, I completely understand he is protecting himself. I do not even blame him for not answering the phone right after we broke up. However, it was HE that said he wanted to keep the door open. He told if I should change my mind to call him, which I did. It's totally okay if he changed his mind but most people would just say that. Even if he wasn't ready to talk that day, that's fine - but he never even called back. In fact, in today's society, you don't even need to call - you can say a 10 second text from Christ's sake!

And I'm not unwilling to allow him that control. I stopped calling right after we broke up. Continued contact attempts on my part would say that I wasn't respecting his boundaries. I'm just making a point that if someone supposedly falls for you, meets your parents, is borderline obsessed with you, the least they usually do is hear you out. Hell, even my long-term ex who was a full blown NPDer, would answer the phone!

[2010]

2010, I was waiting for this post. LOL

Yes, I know. I'm glad to hear that you have your Master's degree now. Are you still posting on the NPD board?

[nybeauty02]

No, I'm not - that period in my life is over! 

[lifeistough75]

I am gone go against the grain here. I know we are on a BPD board, and want to support each other. However, based on what you have written, I don't see any extreme emotions, or black and white issues. The fact that you had 6 amazing weeks before you "dumped" him also says nothing about his BPD. I tell you what, you may not consider what he is doing "normal", but after someone dumps you, the best, and most frequent advice is to go NC. Now, we are blaming the guy for doing what we preach to everyone here on this board. Honestly, if I had 6 amazing week with someone, she dumped me, came back the next day, I would have to question her sanity a little bit, and I would be extremely, I mean "extremely" hesitant to contact the person back. Sorry, this one can't be blamed on BPD based on what you have provided.

[nybeauty02]

Fair enough! I disagree, however. Actually, if it wasn't for the "crazy exes", I'd probably agree with you, Lifeistough. However, this seems to be a pattern for him.

I think your mistaken me being angry for him not wanting to BE with me after we broke up. I'm not. He is the one that said he wanted to keep the door open so the least he could've done was communicate that he had changed his mind. He shut me out totally.

And I apologize if I am wrong but if you spend 6 amazing weeks with someone, are borderline obsessed with them, and then you break up, I highly doubt you wouldn't even hear her out - sorry. Especially when she is begging to speak to you for just 3 minutes. That *is* extreme.

[2010]

I'm being punished. He’s making me pay for it. I don't take kindly to being punished by men. My father always punished me and took things away from me when I was "bad" I'm the one who has everything going for her, he has NOTHING. I'm trying to stay humble but it's hard. He couldn't get a girl like me if he tried.

In the middle of this is a great gem that needs investigating. That of your feelings about your undue punishment by your Father. The L4 Board “Coping with parents” is a great opportunity to investigate whether or not one or both of your parents had attachment problems and took them out on you, either by subsuming you or using you as a scapegoat. Take a look over there and see if anyone else has had your same experience. Validation of childhood reactive formulations makes a World of difference.

[juner]

Actually, if it wasn't for the "crazy exes", I'd probably agree with you, Lifeistough. However, this seems to be a pattern for him.

I'm wondering why someone with so many "crazy exes" would jump into another romance and sweep someone off their feet. Wouldn't that person want to take it slow? Don't know if these "crazy" relationships were a long time ago or if he was just unlucky, or he's just the kind of person who desperately seeks comfort in a new relationship before healing his heart. Wouldn't be the first person to do this. Or... .did he drive the exes crazy?

Anyway, this pattern of the crazy exes does strike me as a possible  .

That being said... .I agree with much of what 2010 says. It's always a good idea to take a close look at unresolved feelings from childhood. Relationships teach us a lot about ourselves, why we respond to things the way we do - our triggers and impulses - and how we can validate ourselves. So that's where the focus should be - on you - not this guy. Allowing him to hide from this (because he is hurting) will actually free you up to learn so much.

You could use this experience to learn about setting a boundary or two. For example, if someone pushes you to do something you're not comfortable with (begging to meet the parents), you can practise sticking up for the way you feel.

I'm still learning.

[nybeauty02]

2010, oh I know I was my parents' scapegoat - no surprise there LOL. Those are the issues I am working on in therapy.

No his crazy relationships were not recent - I do not get involved with anyone that has just broken up with a gf (always a mistake!). Before our first date, he was saying how they were crazy. It was like he talked about it alot - almost bragging.

Allowing him to hide from this (because he is hurting) will actually free you up to learn so much.

He didn't run because he's hurt. He ran because he doesn't give a ___. Anyone who gives a ___ doesn't ignore you like you are garbage.

[innerspirit]

Hi NYB -- while married to my X, I was on a crusade to get him diagnosed.  He evaded it at every turn.  My degree is not in psychology but I sure did enough homework! 

Lesson to me -- regardless of diagnosis or how able and clever he was in covering his tracks, I've certainly learned what   red flags to watch for, what personal boundaries of my own to establish and protect.

And I've had to get to a place of acceptance with the lack of confirmation -- I think the more barbed wire he puts up on his wall of denial, the more apt he is to suffer from some emotional disorder (and the more apt he is to be aware of it himself.)

Is your curiosity at this point more personal or professional?

[nybeauty02]

Hey Innerspirit!

No this is pure curiousity so I can avoid making the same mistake again. As harsh as it sounds, I could care less as to whether he actually does need professional help or not. It's just something was so off about the entire incident. It's easy for people to say "you guys broke up and he disappeared... .that's what he was supposed to do", but something was off - I could feel it. No one would cares about you can shut you out like that - it was the complete opposite from what I had seen from him. And I know deep down (and I knew it then too) that the crazy exes were a 

Like I said, I have no idea if he'll be back, but I want to be prepared and know what I'm "working with". My gut instinct says he's punishing me and seeing if I'll reach out again. I hope he's not holding his breath because I'd rather go play in traffic than ever contact him again. He burned his bridge with me and it didn't need to be that way.

[kly]

Hi NY,

Welcome.

I think his NC after you dumped him after 6 amazing weeks without a bump isn't necessarily a   on its own.  After all he was the dumpee, and you basically told him you didn't want to be with him because he didn't have his act together.  How would you feel in his shoes?

You are wondering about future relationships though--here are the   as I see them. 

|>  Quick attachment on his part.

|>  Not respecting your boundaries (ie: pushing to meet your parents)

|>  The collection of "crazy" ex-girlfriends

|>  The alcohol and pot use

|>  The floundering, lost thing--lack of direction

If you were to meet Brad Pitt's 25-year-old look alike, who also happened to be funny, charming and bright--plus have all the   of your ex, what would you do?

[nybeauty02]

Kly, you brought up some good points! And I agree, I wouldn't feel good on his part. However, people don't ignore you like you are garbage, even after a situation like that. He was the one that begged me to keep the door open. If he couldn't talk to me then, it's understandable, but he never even sent a text. I just don't know what kind of person can see the phone go off like that, from someone they're supposedly crazy about, and not respond at all. It was torture for me. Of course, I stopped as soon as I realized what was going on and didn't reach out since. I'm not sure if he'd answer now a few weeks later, and it doesn't matter anyway, because I won't try. I just think it's odd that as quickly as he got attached, he detached. I bet he barely remembers me at this point and it hurts alot, day in and day out.

It was like he wouldn't even let me rectify the situation, or talk it out, which definitely shows me he wanted out. And I know he wanted out because he was into me, and as soon as I got attached, he started realizing it wouldn't be long before I started asking questions (i.e. "when are you going to get your life together?".

For those of you that don't think his reaction was extreme, trust me, it was. He was nothing but good to me - emotionally open, sensitive, sweet and kind. To ignore someone like that is very cold and cruel. He burned this bridge, and really, there was no reason to.

And what I said to him the night we broke up wasn't anything he didn't know. The things I said were the truth. I didn't curse him out or say anything that wasn't true. The punishment didn't fit the crime. He took it too far.

BPDers are said to be hypersensitive. It fits the bill perfectly... .