Question about vacations / travel...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I suspect my last gf may have had BPD.  There were minor oddities I noticed in the first 5 months we were together, but nothing I'd call a   .

However, we took a trip to the east coast for a week together, and everything fell apart (we haven't spoken since). 

On our trip she instigated numerous fights, completely shut me out (silent-treatment), projected, and raged at me.  None of these behaviors had occurred before this trip.  I can't think of one thing I did to incite her so.  The entire vacation I learned what it really meant to walk on eggshells - I was afraid to say/do anything as I didn't know what would set her off.  When we returned, I left.

Has anyone had a similar experience?  Is there something about traveling or vacations that can cause disregulation?

[FreeToBe]

I suspect my last gf may have had BPD.  There were minor oddities I noticed in the first 5 months we were together, but nothing I'd call a   .

However, we took a trip to the east coast for a week together, and everything fell apart (we haven't spoken since). 

On our trip she instigated numerous fights, completely shut me out (silent-treatment), projected, and raged at me.  None of these behaviors had occurred before this trip.  I can't think of one thing I did to incite her so.  The entire vacation I learned what it really meant to walk on eggshells - I was afraid to say/do anything as I didn't know what would set her off.  When we returned, I left.

Has anyone had a similar experience?  Is there something about traveling or vacations that can cause disregulation?

[WalrusGumboot]

hard to say, dangnammit.

It is my experience that complete and total attention by me is when my uBPDw is the happiest, so vacations fit in that category because I went to great lengths to avoid business calls during our outings.

What has turned out to be a trigger for her is knowing that the time will end eventually and things will return to normal... .me having to work for a living. So the rages start at the ends of trips. She could never enjoy the moment, but rather start hating that the moment will end.

Sad... really.

As far as her recent reactions... .was she hormonal? PMS stuff? I just had to ask.

[2010]

Is there something about traveling or vacations that can cause disregulation?

Yes. They are out of their comfort zones and are being carried along by you. Because they are carried by you- they fear annihilation. They express this fear of annihilation in way you carry them through dangerous waters- they express anxiety and fear in the possibility that you will leave them miles away from their comfort zone, in effect, left out in a wide expanse of nothingness with no one else to attach to.  This is their greatest fear.  

Borderline is an attachment disorder. A Borderline attaches like a remora.  And they need a Shark in order to live.   Eyeballing other sharks is the only way to solve this fear.  Without a Shark to cling to- they are left alone in a vast sea of danger.  Their mind works quickly to resort to former attachments or find new ones. The attachment is quick.

Borderline acting out behaviors attract rescuers like a drowning victim.  These rescuers feel better about themselves when rescuing- and the Borderline is keenly aware of this positive valuation they feel. The Borderline knows about people’s needs.  Rescuers need victims.  A Borderline will provide them with what they want. To a Borderline, survival is all about valuation.

The process of jumping off the pier into open water is so much more immediately satisfying than actually learning how to swim. The look in the rescuers eyes is very addictive to a Borderline.  It’s also very rewarding to you, the rescuer. Unfortunately, it is a cycle of learned helplessness.

If the Borderline learns how to swim, then there is no reward for either party. Therefore, there is no victim (and Borderline is all about being a persecuted victim.) The need for reward and the addiction to get that reward is what Borderline behavior is all about. Without reward, there is no addictive intensity- and intensity is why Borderline behavior is emotionally dysregulated and always at the surface.  The pay-off is the reward for the acting out behavior.   The fear is that the rewarding behavior will no longer be tolerated by the stand-in for the parent (that’s you.)

If the rescuer decides to stop rescuing and withdraws, the Borderline can either “up the ante” in needed bad behavior (acting out) *or* the Borderline can retaliate in moving on and away from you, which turns you, the former rescuer into a persecutor (which was feared all along)  This dynamic drama is then used to seek out new rescuers.  In effect, the Borderline begins by jumping off the pier again- but this time it’s blamed on the failure of the former rescuer (that’s you) to come to their aid.  Because they have failed to teach themselves to swim, they attract other rescuers- that will also suffer the same fate.

The Borderline has to be taught- not only how to swim but how not to cling to others.

Given time, you’ll see how the process was a set-up and how your ideals, morals and ethics were turned against you.  You’ll see that you cannot project (ascribe) them to someone who mirrors them falsely and yet has no ability to follow through (act appropriately) on them. All a Borderline can do is reflect who and what you project back to you for a limited time.

Rather than relying on our own order we decide to share our order with someone else who claims to need it.   Getting pulled into someone elses order- becomes *dis*order when they take it from us and make it into something else.  We forget that we learned this order (we were taught) by other people who bumped us along our way in life.  This isn’t our first disorder in life, but it is probably our greatest mistake in thinking that our mirrored representation of ourselves meant we were safe at last.  Instead, that mirror was used against us.  We cannot make decisions for this person anymore. They must stand on their own decisions and suffer their own consequences.  

[eman01]

Is there something about traveling or vacations that can cause disregulation?

Yes, after the first vacation I went on with uBPDxgf we broke up. Got back together after several months apart and went on another vacation. Things were going well until after the vacation when it fell apart and we broke up again. Same behaviors as first vacation. That's when I recognized the pattern and was enough to persuade me that it was BPD traits and I have been NC since. Holidays have the same effect I believe.

2010's insight is on target.

[fogbound]

Almost without exception, my BPDso would fight with me on vacations. The only time it didn't happen was on our honeymoon. Usually the rage would be precipitated by my taking a phone call from my kids from my previous marriage. I have battled in so many hotels its revolting.

[Kovod]

Before we went on a weeklong driving vacation this summer,our first vacation together,  my uBPDbf expressed concern that I would get mad at him and leave him stranded on the side of the highway... .We laughed at the time but  by day five I was seriously considering doing just that and I was debating whether it was better to drive home with or without him.

His raging escalated and I ended it a few days on getting back home

I found your post 2010 very thought provoking.

I'm now wondering if he "planned" his actions to provoke me into reaching my line in the sand and ending it. It let's him move on and re emerge as the biggest victim for the next round.  Who wouldn't feel sorry for someone left on the side of the road?

This is making me go hmmmmm

[sedated_1]

Usually the rage would be precipitated by my taking a phone call from my kids from my previous marriage. I have battled in so many hotels its revolting.

Wow.  This brings up two things for me:

1) It always amazes me that if I even so much glance at my phone for a family member when I'm with her, my BPDgf will instantly being raging about how she's always ignored and I don't care about her or her time or our time together or her son or anything at all -

while if her phone rings for anybody she's having a 20 minute conversation about BS no matter where we are or what situation we're in

and

2) I too battle in hotels anytime we stay in one.  Anything outside of her comfort zone always sends her spiraling raging no matter what the circumstance.  It's horrible.

[goldenblunder]

On a couple of occasions, we would travel and meet her parents somewhere.  That always turned out fine.  However, taking her to MY friends wedding, even if it was just across town, would be scary.

[soon2bfree2011]

Vacations were always a nightmare with my BPDh.  I can remember literally wanting to jump out of the car to get away from him.  He would pick fights over the most insignificant things and if he couldn't come up with something, he would make it up.  Once I was driving and he started to complain about my driving and the way I was accelerating saying that I was causing the car to make a noise, he just kept perseverating about it.  I got so upset that I pulled over to let him drive.  Well the car made the same noise when he accelerated but there didn't seem to be a problem with that.  I have not gone on vacation as a family in over 10 years.  I take the kids places and he takes the kids places.  He has recently proposed that we take the kids as a family to Universal Studios Islands of Adventures next month for his birthday.  We live in Florida and have never been there.  I agreed but have been agonizing and dreading it ever since.  The thought of being trapped in a car with him... .

[soon2bfree2011]

Two things:

2010  I can't tell you how much your post has helped me.  I have been trying to understand for so long what has made me in particular vulnerable to this.  I'm not blaming myself and living in guilt but I just need to understand what made me put up with this for so long.  The answer is that I am a "Rescuer".  That is me.  I was wondering where you got all that information from because if it was a book, I'd like to get it for myself.

Fogbound   I now realize how many fights happened after I answered my cell phone while with my BPDh, even if it was just to say I can't talk now but I'll call you back.  I never connected the phone as a catalyst until now but it makes so much sense.  Thanks.

[fogbound]

The phone, the phone,the phone. Hundreds of fights over the damn phone. At one point I was forbidden to have it on. Subsequently I wasn't aware that my father had had a heart attack until a solid day later and he lives less than an hour away.

I've been forced to answer the phone while she was though while I've been sitting in a tree stand deer hunting (boundries) because if I didn't then I must have been up to another imagined affair and I would be locked out of the house when I got home.

One day she looked in my wallet sized phone book while we were returning from a trip. She noticed that I had my x-wife's number in there but not hers. Never mind I had her number memorized. The battle that erupted from that was so intense that I threw the damn book out the window just to shut her up. There were years of friends numbers in that little book that I will never be able to recover.

If I ever did take a call in her presence (I have 3 kids who are young drivers, I'm a doctor, 2 very elderly parents) I would have to review the call with her and explain everything that was discussed.

You want to talk about distracted driving? I would get so riled up fighting with her over nonsense that I'd go through red lights, be out of breath so badly I'd see while spots and have no awareness of the traffic around me.



The phone... .

[fogbound]

The phone, the phone,the phone. Hundreds of fights over the damn phone. At one point I was forbidden to have it on. Subsequently I wasn't aware that my father had had a heart attack until a solid day later and he lives less than an hour away.

I've been forced to answer the phone while she was though while I've been sitting in a tree stand deer hunting (boundries) because if I didn't then I must have been up to another imagined affair and I would be locked out of the house when I got home.

One day she looked in my wallet sized phone book while we were returning from a trip. She noticed that I had my x-wife's number in there but not hers. Never mind I had her number memorized. The battle that erupted from that was so intense that I threw the damn book out the window just to shut her up. There were years of friends numbers in that little book that I will never be able to recover.

If I ever did take a call in her presence (I have 3 kids who are young drivers, I'm a doctor, 2 very elderly parents) I would have to review the call with her and explain everything that was discussed.

You want to talk about distracted driving? I would get so riled up fighting with her over nonsense that I'd go through red lights, be out of breath so badly I'd see while spots and have no awareness of the traffic around me.



The phone... .

[targus2010]

I have been married 14 years, currently seperated from BPDw.  Vacations, hell, even day trips to a neighboring town to go shopping was hell on earth.  It was mainly stress for her, she is very low functioning.  We have three kids s13, d10, d7.  She could take a care ride down the road without havbing a meltdown, it too hot, too cold, turn the radio off, why did you move your hand that way, slow down, why are you driving so slow.  The last family trip we went on was on a crusie for 5 days.  She stayed in the cabin the entire time, except when we were in port to go shopping, she never came out for dinner, just ordered room service.  Packing for the trip was almost an impossible task.  I dreaded every night at home when it came time to pick the kids clothes out for school the next day.  She would spend hours on it and complain the whole time, sometime giving up telling me to do it, when I picked something out, of course, it was dirty, didn't match, etc.  All of this to say is we basically quit going places because she would stress out so bad, it would not be worth it.

[lostoc]

Vacations were hell on Earth with her. I won't travel with her now. What a waste of money and time.

[fogbound]

Drove from N. Florida to the Keys one summer (300+ miles). 2 cars pulling boats, 5 kids. She wasn't at the rented house 5 minutes and was threatening to leave.

[targus2010]

Over 14 years ago the first trip we took (we were only dating at the time) was to my brothers wedding 3 1/2 hours away.  Within 3 hours of getting there, she wanted me to drive her to the bus station so she could take a bus home.  I should have seen the red flags, but I guess I wasn't looking for them.  My bad.

[Feverish]

Vacationing was a HUGE trigger for him.  Usually one of the following:

--He wanted everything just so, and if it wasn't then the silent treatment. It could be any small thing that didn't go his way.

--He became anxious and sad on Day One of the vacation, because he anticipated the vacation to end

--Any type of disagreement in conversation would send him over the edge which resulted in high anxiety and silence. He could't deal with disagreements or opposing opinions fro his own.

--He never seemed to be able to pull himself out of his strong emotions and seemed to want to "be in trouble" with me and thus a victim. Everything led back to him being a victim and then turning on his "persecutor" (me). T

Thankfully I don't have to go through that anymore just because "he's my husband".  I have a choice now on who I choose to vacation with... .and it certainly won't be him from this point on.

The entire purpose of a vacation is to RELAX!

[Hediditagain]

Oh my this strikes a cord!

Me and my uNPD/BNDbf flew to Qld (3hrs) for his friend/enablers mother and sisters combined birthday party. The flight and Friday night wasn't too bad although I knew there was something not right ... .Saturday we went shopping to get some more accessories for our fancy dress (gangster theme) and had a great day.

As I didn't know anyone at the party I decided to go around and take photo's given it was fancy dress of everyone for his friends mum/sister (I would send them to them later and little did I know about his problem). I thought it would be good to give his space and speak to friends he hadn't seen for a while. Later in the evening I danced with his friend and the next thing was jealous rage ... .I was distraught he had abused and humiliated me in front of everyone ... .I left the party and went to our apartment. He followed me and raged. I got him to leave but after cooling down told him to come back to the apartment as they had upgraded us to a 2 bedroom and we could have our own rooms ... .he wouldn't answer the phone and kept abusing me via text so in the end I went to bed not realising he didn't have his room card. In the end he slept at the airport and in the morning still refused to come and get his luggage telling me to throw it away ... .we had a late afternoon flight so I checked out with both our luggage, took myself to lunch and then headed to the airport to find him. Obviously his episode had subsided and he was shamed. He just sat there sulking and made sure the engagement with me was very minimal for the few hours wait we had and was very quiet on the plane. We had my car at the airport so we both got in he was still quiet but started with some small talk. When we got to his house he told me to park around the back ... .he was assuming that I would stay the night! I asked him to take his luggage out of the car and I was going home for the evening ... .and then the barrage of abuse started again the next day!

Honestly I had no idea what I was dealing with ... .I just couldn't work it out. On the Sunday morning I was responding to his abuse and saying to him 'What sort of man are you? You should be ashamed of your behaviour! Start acting like an adult come and get your luggage'.

In hindsight some of his abuse regarding the rage was you couldn't even stay by myside for 10 minutes at the party ... .I thought I was doing him a favor not being his handbag!

I'm glad I didn't know about his PD as I didn't pander to his ridiculous childlike bahaviour and called him when I wasn't happy.

[Hediditagain]

2010 I agree.

We would also travel to his mothers which is a 4.5 hours drive and never had any problems with him during those trips. Not in the car or during the stay. They were mostly quite pleasant.