is it normal.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Most here know my story. After 2 year on/off with many push/pulls and recycles. We met after about 10 days of nc. Nobody decided to go NC it just happened. She contacted me back with light texting and conversation. After about two days of light conversation she then decided that she didnt want to do the relationship. Said she didnt want to get married. But that she loved me and if she was gonna get married I would be the one. She told me that she loved but she just couldnt keep hurting me over and over. but that she wanted us to go back to her house and drink and have sex as break up sex. which I didnt do. I mean why have sex with someone and then just get dumped. I couldnt think of anything that would make me feel any worse.  She told me she wouldnt bother me and would avoid me so she wouldnt hurt me or make it hard on me. She hugged me real hard and kissed me real passionate.That last I heard from her.

Many times in the past I would decided that I was finished with her and didnt want the recycle. The last break up was a few months ago and I was finished. Of course she called, drove to my house, beg, pleaded, admitting all her wrongs, cried and talked about getting therapy. Had friends call me when I stopped taking her calls. I gave in, because I had never seen her act like this and Of course I wanted to beleive her becuase she had never said these words before. and she even said that herself " have you ever seen me cry and chase you so you know I mean it".  so I gave in and it started real good for a about 3 or 4 weeks. Then once again all the same things started all over again.

Like I have said I am having moments of relief and saying to myself its over thank god. But then I have moments of wanting the recycle, extreme sadness and fighting all temptations of reaching out to her and tryting to get her back. My logic and common sense tells me "what for" for more of the same. I means its like sticking your finger in a light socket, its not if it will hurt, but its a fact it will hurt. Is this a sign that I havent had enough torture or is this all normal to want more of the misery. I know on this board there is people with more experience then I. Am I only feeling this way becasue I fear that she is really done this time and there wont be a recycle.

I would apprciate any and all feedback. I really need it at this moment.

[mitchell16]

Most here know my story. After 2 year on/off with many push/pulls and recycles. We met after about 10 days of nc. Nobody decided to go NC it just happened. She contacted me back with light texting and conversation. After about two days of light conversation she then decided that she didnt want to do the relationship. Said she didnt want to get married. But that she loved me and if she was gonna get married I would be the one. She told me that she loved but she just couldnt keep hurting me over and over. but that she wanted us to go back to her house and drink and have sex as break up sex. which I didnt do. I mean why have sex with someone and then just get dumped. I couldnt think of anything that would make me feel any worse.  She told me she wouldnt bother me and would avoid me so she wouldnt hurt me or make it hard on me. She hugged me real hard and kissed me real passionate.That last I heard from her.

Many times in the past I would decided that I was finished with her and didnt want the recycle. The last break up was a few months ago and I was finished. Of course she called, drove to my house, beg, pleaded, admitting all her wrongs, cried and talked about getting therapy. Had friends call me when I stopped taking her calls. I gave in, because I had never seen her act like this and Of course I wanted to beleive her becuase she had never said these words before. and she even said that herself " have you ever seen me cry and chase you so you know I mean it".  so I gave in and it started real good for a about 3 or 4 weeks. Then once again all the same things started all over again.

Like I have said I am having moments of relief and saying to myself its over thank god. But then I have moments of wanting the recycle, extreme sadness and fighting all temptations of reaching out to her and tryting to get her back. My logic and common sense tells me "what for" for more of the same. I means its like sticking your finger in a light socket, its not if it will hurt, but its a fact it will hurt. Is this a sign that I havent had enough torture or is this all normal to want more of the misery. I know on this board there is people with more experience then I. Am I only feeling this way becasue I fear that she is really done this time and there wont be a recycle.

I would apprciate any and all feedback. I really need it at this moment.

[turtle]

Hi Mitchell!

IMO, we become addicted to the misery.  At least I know I did.  My life was crazyx with so chaotic -- all of the highs and lows.  Everyday was like a circus -- so much activity.  Sometimes the activity was positive and sometimes it was negative, but one thing is clear... .  it was OVER stimulation either way.

Once we decide that we can't live in the insanity anymore, the "dead" space is hard to fill.  Even if we busy ourselves with hobbies, friends, etc., there is that "dead" space.  And the silence can be deafening.

We have to adjust to a calm, non-chaotic life.  It's like moving from NYC to a cabin in the back woods of Montana.  It takes time to adjust to the silence, to the slower pace, to the solitude.

For me, I spent so much of my time trying to "manage" crazyx's drama that when that drama was gone, I felt like the world had stopped.  

It takes time to adjust.  Give yourself that time!  It feels uncomfortable now, but eventually, you will value this "normal" existance immensely!

turtle

[hithere]

All normal on the crazy front!

We get addicted to the highs and lows, we think what happens if they change for the next guy and he gets the good stuff without all the crap.

I can promise you if you go back it will happen again and you will feel bad!  Get busy, spend time with friends and family, take up a hobby, work-out, play video games, see a therapist.  Cut her out of your life and move on to a better future!

[mitchell16]

thanks. This is what I need to hear. You can tell yourself over and over but nothing like reading it from someone else that drives it home. When I try it on myself I find myself, rationlizing and justfying this happens once the anger starts going away.

[bpdspell]

Yes Mitchell,

The push/pull cycle is highly addictive and turtle's spot on about filling up that dead space. When we've made the decision to step off the roller coaster for good the silence can be deafening and the emptiness and sadness are like a large collection plate being dropped in your lap.

A great question to ask yourself is: What are you doing with filling up your dead space?

Are you in T and/or making efforts to how to better understand how you ended up with a person like your ex?

Your feelings are validated. It is certainly normal to wonder if we've made the right decisions for ourselves. I pined and missed my ex more than anybody I've ever dated. Cried buckets. Got really angry at the reality of it all. In many ways I had to emotionally cut off my hands to avoid sending an accidental text or an *wink*wink* accidental pocket dial. It is very hard to accept the reality of it being over for good.

But keep your eyes on the prize. You have a semblance of peace, your sanity back, and you have time to live your life the way you want to live it. The world is truly your oyster. Going back to your BPD will only give her an opportunity to steal your pearl.

Spell

[truly amazed]

Hi Mitchell!

Hi Mitchell!

IMO, we become addicted to the misery.  At least I know I did.  My life was crazyx with so chaotic -- all of the highs and lows.  Everyday was like a circus -- so much activity.  Sometimes the activity was positive and sometimes it was negative, but one thing is clear... .  it was OVER stimulation either way.

Once we decide that we can't live in the insanity anymore, the "dead" space is hard to fill.  Even if we busy ourselves with hobbies, friends, etc., there is that "dead" space.  And the silence can be deafening.

We have to adjust to a calm, non-chaotic life.  It's like moving from NYC to a cabin in the back woods of Montana.  It takes time to adjust to the silence, to the slower pace, to the solitude.

For me, I spent so much of my time trying to "manage" crazyx's drama that when that drama was gone, I felt like the world had stopped.  

It takes time to adjust.  Give yourself that time!  It feels uncomfortable now, but eventually, you will value this "normal" existance immensely!

turtle

For me as turtle says ... .  almost the same.

Addicted ... .  or my description is Stockholm syndrome mixed with PTSD and not knowing what was up or what was down.

After the relationship and finding this site ... .  I think I had just got a doctor and a shrink but for weeks after the realtionship with the ex contacting me and being abusive and blaming me 100% for the issues, I was not aware ! Not aware the extent she had abused me. I don't mean inventing stuff I just never sat down and wrote it down until the day I called the doctor and went I have been abused. Sounds stupid having been spat on, hit, kicked, threatened, goods broken, verbal all the forms and you dont know it.

Hanging out for those rewards ... .  or back to the honeymoon period even if only for an hour. Not knowing this and accepting the blame for her actions ... .  almost unbelievable. She got drunk and angry, abused me verbally for 4 hours, and it was my fault. The incident which sparked this at times was not even an action of mine. But mixed up as we become we actually take ownership and the blame for things which are not ours. In my case for a very large load of things.

Take ownership of your actions and give the rest back ... .  RTS ... .  return to sender :}

Take care     

[mitchell16]

thanks for all the advice. I dont know maybe I am addicted to the drama/choas. Maybe its strange after two years of constatley having to watch her to see how she was gonna react to tell if it was going to be a good day or bad day. I told a friend I was either in heaven for 3 weeks or spent 2 or 3 weeks trying to figure what I did wrong and how I was going to get her back. and then once we were back I spent even more time trying to figure out how to keep her happy and her mood on a even plain. I mean she used to would say i shouldnt have to ask you anything, you should just know what I need done. So I got to the point where as soon as I walk in I would make sure no dishes needed washing, no garbage taken out. At first that worked for while, then it became something else. She would say just make a decison for us, of course when I did that she would still want to change it. If I stood my ground I was to controlling. So maybe it is Im addicted. I would have never beleive it.

[myself]

I relate to every post here. Freaky how certain details are exactly the same.

I think part of what happens when we detach is: We Wake Up. We have been living our fantasies and dreams, and also living our nightmares. When we come back to reality (on our own, for ourselves), it can often seem like we're just in another dream. It's weird! As if it's another version of the nightmare, because we find we're hurting so much.

It doesn't seem 'normal' because we're not used to it. The dreams seemed 'real' to us at the time because we grew accustomed to them (just as we will become used to how things are now that we're 'awake'. I think part of us, inside these BPD relationships, goes to sleep, and gets by in a dream-like way, to help ourselves survive. We kind of did make sense of it all, living through it, for awhile, pushing it off into a dream-like way of looking at it. We were also working on reality, but ended up deluding ourselves and losing touch with it. The in-between period could even be seen as sleepwalking.

It takes a while to wake up, though (perhaps we never fully do?).

But that's normal, isn't it? To really: Rise and shine!

As the dreams fade away... .  

[FoolishOne]

All these posts are so identifiable... .  it's freaky... .  

I've been wrestling with the same demons... .  my BPDw has been NC for a week now.  I emailed her as a courtesy (very short) but it was more of an effort to help solidify my decision.  It is not within their DNA to cave in... .  not unless their world is on fire... .  and her world in no longer on fire.  I've been used up for all she could get so it's time to move on.

I dread the process that's coming... .  just wish I were already in your shoes Mitchell.

F1

[happiness68]

hithere -I agree with what you write here, the first paragraph in particular.  Yes, we get addicted to the highs and lows.  They love drama.  Most of all I see that you think to yourself what I've thought to myself "what happens if they change for the next guy" - is that possible?

All normal on the crazy front!

We get addicted to the highs and lows, we think what happens if they change for the next guy and he gets the good stuff without all the crap.

I can promise you if you go back it will happen again and you will feel bad!  Get busy, spend time with friends and family, take up a hobby, work-out, play video games, see a therapist.  Cut her out of your life and move on to a better future!

[turtle]

Most of all I see that you think to yourself what I've thought to myself "what happens if they change for the next guy" - is that possible?

Possible?  Sure... .  anything is possible.  Likely?  No.  HIGHLY unlikely.  I just recently had a brief encounter with crazyx after having not seen him for eleven years. He has not changed one iota.

And... .  even if they WERE to change... .  it would take YEARS of therapy and pure dedication on their part. They would have to want to change MORE than they would want to move on to the next victim. The fact that they move on to another person without dealing with their own issues, shows there is no acknowledgement that change is needed, much less a dedication to improvement.  Wanting to improve would take a self realization that they just are not capable of.  So... .  they move on and continue to destroy themselves and others.

The key for us is to also move on and deal with ourselves. We ARE capable of the self realization needed to make permanent and positive changes in OUR lives and that is a wonderful thing.

turtle

[happiness68]

Turtle - I love what you've written below.  Yes, we're more than capable, because we're part-way there.  We know that having been with a BPD, we have caused some damage to ourselves and just by being here and talking honestly and openly we in part heal ourselves.  We are continually looking for ways to heal and move on.  Yes, it's a wonderful thing ;-)

Most of all I see that you think to yourself what I've thought to myself "what happens if they change for the next guy" - is that possible?

The key for us is to also move on and deal with ourselves. We ARE capable of the self realization needed to make permanent and positive changes in OUR lives and that is a wonderful thing.

turtle

[mitchell16]

all this feedback is great. I try to read it along with all the other information on the board. This board has helped me keep my sanity numerous times. In the past before I found this board and the book Stop walking on eggshells she had me convinced that It was all me. I mean she is very attarctive, very educated and in the Therapy field. So she should know whats the best, right? so I thought. As time went on I stumbled on the book stop walking on eggshell which the led me to this board. When I read that book it was like I was reading a scrip almost word for word from my life. Over the last year Or so I have tried to let it go and move on becasue based on what I have read here and in that book. It jusy wont gte better. It would be a life of misery. BUt even still I do find myself at momenst wanting the recycle longing for it and then thinking about it and cringing becuase once again I will be right back where I started. I mena what can she say that she hasnt said on teh past numerous recycles. I mean she said she was sorry it was all her and she knew what she needed to do to get better. That lasted aboyt 3 weeks. She would tell me if I just learned to not ask her questions about anything she wouldnt feel pressure. So I stopped, didnt change a thing. Said if I would just learn to read her mind so to speak, it would get better. She would just find something else I didnt read her mind about. If I would just give her space when she was stressed that would let her unwind, then I got critized for leaving her when she was mad and out of control. so that didnt work either. I mean the list goes on and on. So thats why I wonder why I still crave the recycle.

[happiness68]

Mitchell - I too have craved a recycle, but at this moment in time it scares me to even think of a recycle.  However, something you said below struck a chord for me.  That's exactly what he used to say to me about not asking questions.  I've always asked a lot of questions.  It's not in a bad way.  It's how you get to know someone.  Funny how they don't want us to REALLY get to know them.  They don't know themselves!

She would tell me if I just learned to not ask her questions about anything she wouldnt feel pressure. So I stopped,

[mitchell16]

happiness68, I work in a field that shall I say is security related. And she would use this againt me. Her favorite was your interrogating me. I would be just puzzled. Then it changed to its not that your asking me its how your asking me. I would be very concious of my tones and body language because she would alway point out something like that because it cant be proven. It comes down to a circular argument of did to, did not. which nobody wins. I mean no matter how bizarre or how much of a contridiction her actions where you should never ask any questions. But the flip side was if you didnt ask her anything then you were boring or didnt love her or you wasnt interested in her anymore. I once asked her what she did she eat for lunch Just conversation, right? nothing was said at that time but 3 days later she said I interrogated her about her lunch habits. The reading her mind trick was always great. Her thought was I should know what she wants done in any sititution. On one of our many break ups and nc, whne we did talk she got made becuase she had been sick and I didnt call her and check on her. I told her I didnt know she was sick. She said I should have known and even so I could have called one her friends and asked how she was doing. I was critized for how I washed her dishs that I didnt use hot enough water, If i put clothes in the dryer I was supposed to shake each one prior to putting in the dryer. Once she had surgery about 3 weeks earlier and I was out of town and we were talking on the phone. She told me she was having memory problems, she said she felt dizzy and almost like she was gonna pass out. She said she needed to get off the phone for awhile and she would call me back at 900. when she didnt call I started getting worried. I mean surgery 3 weeks earlier and the syptoms. I called her, she didnt answer, I waited a few minutes I called a again. I starting thinking she ahd a stroke or something. I called once more. No answer. I sent a text. she responded back she was on the phone. I said ok. When she did call I was chewed out for calling 15 times. Never happened. But the flip side if she had been sick and I didnt check on her I would not have cared. Remeber all this makes me wonder why would I ever want a recycle. Maybe recalling all this and having to think about is answering my own questions. I just dont know. I feel like im the crazy one

[hithere]

Remeber all this makes me wonder why would I ever want a recycle.

BPD is really a fascinating sickness... .  more so when you are not in a relationship with one.

It truly is a make crazy disease.

All the things you mentioned have happened to me, just change the topic and living it was so surreal.

That is one things about being with a person with BPD, they will always surprise you, no matter how silly, stupid or crazy the fight were, there was always a new one that was even crazier just around the corner and that is what I got sick of, the constant feeling of dread, even when things seemed to be ok, I knew it was just a matter of minutes, hours or days until the next cycle of crazy nastiness would start.

[happiness68]

mitchell16 it's not you trust me.  I was never allowed to ask questions.  I don't know what he thought I was trying to do.  It's just the way you get to know someone.  My whole family asks a lot of questions, me and my brother in particular.  Don't let your past with her take away your inner self.  Never be afraid to ask questions about someone.  It's a good way to be.  You're not crazy.

happiness68, I work in a field that shall I say is security related. And she would use this againt me. Her favorite was your interrogating me. I would be just puzzled. Then it changed to its not that your asking me its how your asking me. I would be very concious of my tones and body language because she would alway point out something like that because it cant be proven. It comes down to a circular argument of did to, did not. which nobody wins. I mean no matter how bizarre or how much of a contridiction her actions where you should never ask any questions. But the flip side was if you didnt ask her anything then you were boring or didnt love her or you wasnt interested in her anymore. I once asked her what she did she eat for lunch Just conversation, right? nothing was said at that time but 3 days later she said I interrogated her about her lunch habits. The reading her mind trick was always great. Her thought was I should know what she wants done in any sititution. On one of our many break ups and nc, whne we did talk she got made becuase she had been sick and I didnt call her and check on her. I told her I didnt know she was sick. She said I should have known and even so I could have called one her friends and asked how she was doing. I was critized for how I washed her dishs that I didnt use hot enough water, If i put clothes in the dryer I was supposed to shake each one prior to putting in the dryer. Once she had surgery about 3 weeks earlier and I was out of town and we were talking on the phone. She told me she was having memory problems, she said she felt dizzy and almost like she was gonna pass out. She said she needed to get off the phone for awhile and she would call me back at 900. when she didnt call I started getting worried. I mean surgery 3 weeks earlier and the syptoms. I called her, she didnt answer, I waited a few minutes I called a again. I starting thinking she ahd a stroke or something. I called once more. No answer. I sent a text. she responded back she was on the phone. I said ok. When she did call I was chewed out for calling 15 times. Never happened. But the flip side if she had been sick and I didnt check on her I would not have cared. Remeber all this makes me wonder why would I ever want a recycle. Maybe recalling all this and having to think about is answering my own questions. I just dont know. I feel like im the crazy one

[happiness68]

hithere - I know what you mean.  You almost expect it.  You wait with baited breath for the next one.  It's definitely crazy and yes, the longer you're with them, the more crazy it gets.  I can't believe why we ended I really can't.  It's so petty and basically just madness.  I can understand if I'd been unfaithful I really could or anything of that level, but you're right.  It's crazy.

Remeber all this makes me wonder why would I ever want a recycle.

BPD is really a fascinating sickness... .  more so when you are not in a relationship with one.

It truly is a make crazy disease.

All the things you mentioned have happened to me, just change the topic and living it was so surreal.

That is one things about being with a person with BPD, they will always surprise you, no matter how silly, stupid or crazy the fight were, there was always a new one that was even crazier just around the corner and that is what I got sick of, the constant feeling of dread, even when things seemed to be ok, I knew it was just a matter of minutes, hours or days until the next cycle of crazy nastiness would start.

[waitaminute]

Careful that you don't replace that addiction to intensity with other addictions that are not good for you. Wish I could offer advice on how. But now i spend too much time with tobacco, gambling, and frequent listening to singer/songwriter songs about ramblers, gamblers, down and out men, and cheating women. Therapy helps.

[truly amazed]

Hi,

Change ? Will they change ? Is it me ? These are good questions every person will ask about themselves for growth.

Natural, normal and healthy.

Actually having been told the total history of my ex back until she was 10 by her mother and then again by her best friend, I asked the same. Even though a history of 30 years, two marriages and same pattern was displayed I still asked it. On the surface it looks fine as did ours ... .  but reality was a relationship filled with turmoil and pain.

Living in a small town sadly one of the drawbacks is you hear about them even when you ask people not to tell you anything. I thought my own relationship was wild but her new one even worse than my own.

Without any effort or serious work on themselves the ways they deal with situations and getting what they want does not and will not change. I look back and besides being cruel in so many ways I ask myself is there ever an excuse for someone who loves another say to spit on them ? Or hit them ? Kick them ? Yes this was a female doing it to a man. I just grabbed her wrists and restrained her at these times ... .  I never even swore at her in our relationship.

Think of what happened during your own and ask yourself do you seriously expect the same sort of things not to happen again ?

It is possible but I suspect very unlikely.

Take care