did anyone elses BPD partner say things like - i only think in black and white?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi all

my uBPDh frequently told me he only sees things in black or white, there are no grey areas and that keeps it simple.     if we got into discussions or he asked me a question and there was a grey area he would tell me that I am confusing things and just answer there question.  he told me this one many many times - i only think in black and white, i only see things as black or white  there are no grey areas that is just confusing.

he also told me many many times - I feel like a child,  I feel like I have never grown up,   Inside i am like a child.    If we were discussing something that was starting to take a turn for the worse he would tell me that he wasn't smart enough to argue with me.  the very same person could then use his interparation of events to very cleverly make me look stupid and horrible when talking in front of other people.

he didn't want to leave but was extremely verbally abusive and mean to me in the week before he finally went.      he was showing no emotion as he started to pack   but   because he thought I was showing no emotion   he verbally hit the lowest of the low in his abuse    which he then apologised for and said he new he went to far.  after which he continued to be unfair showing no emotion.

Im just interested to see if anyone elses partner with BPD actually openly verbalised some of the classic signs - the black and white thinking,  emotionally a child?

[heavenward]

Hi all

my uBPDh frequently told me he only sees things in black or white, there are no grey areas and that keeps it simple.     if we got into discussions or he asked me a question and there was a grey area he would tell me that I am confusing things and just answer there question.  he told me this one many many times - i only think in black and white, i only see things as black or white  there are no grey areas that is just confusing.

he also told me many many times - I feel like a child,  I feel like I have never grown up,   Inside i am like a child.    If we were discussing something that was starting to take a turn for the worse he would tell me that he wasn't smart enough to argue with me.  the very same person could then use his interparation of events to very cleverly make me look stupid and horrible when talking in front of other people.

he didn't want to leave but was extremely verbally abusive and mean to me in the week before he finally went.      he was showing no emotion as he started to pack   but   because he thought I was showing no emotion   he verbally hit the lowest of the low in his abuse    which he then apologised for and said he new he went to far.  after which he continued to be unfair showing no emotion.

Im just interested to see if anyone elses partner with BPD actually openly verbalised some of the classic signs - the black and white thinking,  emotionally a child?

[hithere]

On quite a few occasions my high-functioning exBPD would admit to various symptoms of BPD. She would say her blood would boil and she could not control herself or she knows she was a naughty girl, etc... .  those moments gave me hope she could maybe understand the destruction at a higher level but she would always back pedal with something like, 'oh well, I guess everyone is screwed up and that is my screw up' - then if I ever pushed it and tried to get her to face some of the major consequences and pain she has caused herself or others she would clam up and say I was exaggerating and it is no big deal.

[gina louise]

 heavenward,

"Hi!"

I can attest to this. My HUSBAND refused to seek therapist so no recent dx or treatment. Apart from the cutting I feel like he fit at least 7 of the criteria.for dx of BPD.

He would always say... .  I am ALL or NOTHING, or it''s ALL or Nothing, if referring to a situation.

He would ask a complex question that I felt deserved a complex answer and he would INSIST: YES Or NO? Which is IT?  and become quite belligerent if I tried to explain my answer.

I found it exhausting to restrain myself and try to think it through his way- to me it wasn't normal, or logical. that either /or mindset.

Mine also often exclaimed he was WEAK. As if he had poor self control or lacked discipline-yet in many areas he was not weak, at all. I felt it was an excuse for not giving a damn.   

GL

[heavenward]

yeah Hithere

my h   has said on a few occaisions after being verbally abusive  "why am I so horrible?"   "I am so ashamed of myself"

it makes you wonder - do you know there is something wrong in your behaviour or thinking?  I know sometimes that gave me a bit of hope.   because once you start taking responsiblility   then with help you can change

it was always very very shortlived.     one time after an abusive episode  he went to his parents and after a couple of hours phoned me to ask if we could talk and he sounded full of remorse etc etc

he came home, straight through the door and said "from now on you just have to walk away when I start on you"    no responsibility    indeed where on earth did that nice man on the phone I talked to go?

[hithere]

because once you start taking responsiblility   then with help you can change

That may be true with some things like addiction but with BPD I think the mind of the person with BPD protects them by never allowing them to fully admit or feel proper guilt for the things they have done - it would break their minds.

[heavenward]

yes GinaLouise

I got the Im weak,  Im worthless     and I know that these are all part of it   but  you don't feel like that when you want some new gadget and you manipulate to state your case for having it.    or you are berating someone else and stating just how much better you are because you wouldn't do that or act like that.

I was exhausted with the   tell me yes or no   grey areas in normal conversation were just not allowed.

My h hasn't worked in over a year and a half but part of his taking things from the house were so he could get work -  excuse me but what has been stopping you?

he felt worthless at not bringing any money into the home -  he got paid recently for helping someone with a bit of work - oh joy to able to hand some money into the house  -   no wait a minute  -   only in the house literally one minute and its   oh joy I am off to buy myself a new gadget that I will only use once but is so very essential

sorry guys for the last one - venting myself a bit there.

[heavenward]

hithere,

I know what you are saying - but doesn't it make you wonder  when they come right out and name some of the classic traits.

I say this and yet the whole thing makes you wonder.   I also know that any road to recovery could be very very very (could type a shed load of verys here) long.

[waitaminute]

A few times she told me that she is like a child and that she is weak. It was intended to be a helpful comment- almost a confession - to tell me how she thinks.

While she didnt verbalize her black white thinking/feeling ... she was definitely a black white thinker/feeler.

She hated my moon in Libra "on the one hand... .  On the other hand" approach of weighing and deciding things.

[levi]

Oh sure looks like you are talking about my husband mine acts like a child he is almost 60 years of age but play with model aircrafts from saturday morning very early till 9 in the evening and sundays also with his friends at the club. And you are rite about the very cleverly make us look stupid in front of public and family and friends and even in front of my children.     This is all so true. My husband refers to himself as a black dot in the house.  I know why my husband has BPD its because of his mother, she rejected him from birth, only liked his brother never wanted another baby she even called my husband by his brothers name and today 60 years later she still calls him by his brothers name. He has no identity and for 30 year of our marriage he blames me and the children for not wanting him or not loving him. But not once has he admitted that he has a problem, no he is always rite, there is nothing wrong with him , i am the crazy one and me and the kids doesnt like him. Truth is he will feel rejected for the rest of his life because of the damage his mother did, and because he is so hurt inside he wants to hurt his family also.

[heavenward]

waitaminute

I think quite often my H was trying to help me understand too.    but it didn't change anything.  

he also told me  he doesn't see anyone elses pain,  he doesn't see that he is hurting them.      that is on one hand   but he also started phrases with "now this is going to hurt you  but... .  "

so while he could point out all these things and recognise these traits within himself or he certainly verbalised them   it didn't make one blind bit of difference.

I don't see when I am hurting someone          Now this is going to hurt you but     ?

bewildering  

[heavenward]

levi

my heart absolutely goes out to you.

I recently talked things through with my mother in law.  she confided that my H father had treated her in similar ways.   there she was in her early 70's crying over what she has gone through  and wondering what it would have been like to have lived with someone who is easy going?

Levi it must be tough and I hope you have support,  my mother in law told me it is the only way she coped.

bless you.

[Surnia]

My exH who has strong N traits and not BPD according to my T, told this very often from himself and he was/is very proud of it: Black and white thinking. I was often irritated how proud he was to think like this. And I found it so exhausting and full of conflicts, not only with me but in life generally.

[hithere]

my ex used to express often how proud she was of having the guts to verbalize what other people thought but were too afraid to say... .  twisted stuff

[levi]

Thank you Heavenheart,

i do have support... .  My children and my sister and all you guys here, i learn a lot here, by just reading all these story's i know i am not alone and that i am not the crazy one. I wish so i could talk to his mother and maybe ask her why she was always crying in the kitchen, i know my father in law was also not treating her well. She is now 89 and stay far away from us we see her once a year but she phones my husband 10 times a day when he answer the phone she put the phone down. Not sure if this is her guilty conscience working on her or what but for me it is a bit too late now the damage has been done, and for 30 years of marriage to her unwanted son there is nothing she can to do ever fix her broken son.

[waitaminute]

my ex used to express often how proud she was of having the guts to verbalize what other people thought but were too afraid to say... .  twisted stuff

Oh yes... .  She knew what everyone was thinking. Actually her senses were good when she was calm. But that was so rarely the case.

[BentNotBroken]

My BPDex admitted to Black & White thinking many years ago. She never did anything about it, and it still continues to this day.

Ironically, one of her favorite phrases was, "I'm sorry, but... .  " and then she would proceed to just crucify someone who was not present at the time. She had a bad feeling about someone, so therefore they must be a bad person.

"I'm sorry... .  " was a tool for manipulation and a weapon for her. It never actually expressed remorse for harming someone else.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Yes, my BPDbf said early on things like "I see things in black in white", "for me it's all or nothing", "when I get mad at someone and cut off contact, they're out of my life forever", "I get extremely upset sometimes and blow things out of proportion", "I'm not able to stop myself/calm myself down when I get angry"... .  Yeah, some  there that I didn't catch. Didn't know about BPD at the time.

[HostNoMore]

I recall that my exBPDgf said exactly

I only think in black and white!

. 

I was completely dumbfounded by it.  She was so frank about it too.  Statements like this will be treated as a  triple threat warning for me in the future too.  It really indicates serious detachment from reality.

[heavenward]

Scarlet Phoneix - thats another thing,   when I walk away from or say something is over thats it - he becomes like a zombie (his words) and he won't go back.j

this is going to hurt but... .      I can't see Im hurting you... .  I can't control my anger,  I don't see this coming,  it just arrives

there are times when I think Im not strong enough for hanging on in there      but then I remember this;

my son (age 13)  had my H on a pedestal -  but when I insisted H go I had a chat with him and told him he was being very grown up about H having to leave  my son said to me "mum you just cant be getting on like that"       when I asked had H's behaviour annoyed him before he said "yes it had"       I fooled myself into believing I had been protecting him from it.   I was so worried at how my son would re-act.  the thing was at 13 whilst he hadn't seen most of it   -   he had seen enough.

what more can be said.

[GustheDog]

Mine displayed many similar red flags as those reported here.  She described her history with her ex (which was on-off/hot-cold for years).  She described a little bit of what it felt like when she "knew" she had to leave him - and gave a similar description of the way members of her family made her feel.  In all cases, she just couldn't be around the person any longer because any little thing they did was so repulsive and annoying to her that she was completely overwhelmed with this negative anxiety and had to get away.  Even in the middle of the devaluation period I was still trying to comfort and understand her (I had no idea she was about to leave me and thought she was just going through a difficult period or something - that's what I was trying to elicit from her).  Anyway, she would get all frenzied and say, "This is how it was with [exbf] at the end!"  She also stated that she "experienced things in extremes."

The thing that makes detaching especially hard for me is that, unlike the accounts of many, my ex does not seem super aware of the effects/abnormality her behavior nor does she lie or do things to cover it up (that or her lies and cover-ups are beyond my detection).  I seem to encounter a lot of people here talking about their exes doing these things, which makes me suspect that the pwBPD is quite aware that something inside them is "off", that it does lead to behavior that harms people, and that they are actively inventing ways to conceal this from others.  On the contrary, I think my ex didn't have a clue what's "wrong" with her (while vaguely knowing that something *is*), and I think she's pretty miserable and really wishes she didn't have to be.  These things keep me stuck in a lot of the traps that can hold us back, I think.

She is not responding to me (we haven't talked in months), but I send her emails here and there encouraging her to reach out.  I also compiled some research on BPD I'd done in the course of my own recovery and sent this to her.  Based on what I perceive as her desire to "fix" herself, her intelligence, and the fact that she may not be too far along on the BPD spectrum, I like to think this will sink in with her.  And, whether I'm painted black or not (and I certainly appear to be), I know that she holds my opinion/analysis of things in very high regard.

Or I'm completely delusional myself.  Which circle of hell is this again?

[meditator]

GustheDog - I think that you are still in denial here.  My exBPDgf went through periods of admitting then denying her problems.  The lies are sometimes just more childlike, like fantasies.  Compelling because they live in a make believe when said.

She had integrity, but damaged me by not being straight.

As for comments, how is:

Love is binary, for me.

It really threw me at the time, on or off!  I experienced off at the end of course.  It's just not sensible.

[GustheDog]

GustheDog - I think that you are still in denial here.

Very possible!

[HowPredictable]

if anyone elses partner with BPD actually openly verbalised some of the classic signs.

In retrospect, there are too many to count:

"When I cut people out of my life, it's forever."  (splitting)

"I take my cues from you, HowPredictable."   (mirroring)

"I know I will die alone."   (fear of abandonment)

"There is a fury inside me."   (emotional dysregulation/rage).

"I don't know who I am."   (identity disturbance)

"I just don't want to live anymore."  (self-harm)

I wish I had known at the time, the true significance of what I was hearing.

[charred]

My exBPDgf... said she sees things as black and white, there are no greys. She said it in the midst of a discussion of morality, so it seemed like a comment on her morality being absolute. It took a while to realize that she simply splits things so that they are either great or horrible.

When I cut people out of my life its forever... .  heard that one many times.

I discounted much of what she said... because it sounded so hokey/impossible. She was upset I didn't protect her from my exwife... who is one of the most docile people I know... there was nothing to protect her from... I think she was envious of the exwife and wanted me to protect her feelings somehow? It never made sense. But hypersensitive to emotions, smells, critisizm, disagreement... .  basically she could attack and be angry, dish it out, but not take it at all, and anytime she was excited, she would be full of anguish, hyperventilate, or have a panic attack.

My family (sister/mom) thought she seemed kind of phony and very childish.