Please help me break it down to make a decision

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Hi all,

A response I got to one of my posts recently made me realize that my sitting on the fence is very detrimental to our r/s. I need to make decision whether to stay or not, I have been in T, both separately and together with my uBPDbf for a while (we no longer go together) and I have got so much stronger but it has also made me less and less decided because I am no longer sure what I want to put up with. I should use this strength either to leave the r/s or to be the stronger person for us. I was looking into the guidelines https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111890.msg1099710#msg1099710 especially #5 and thought I'd ask your help to figure this out.

I have invested 4 years of my life into this r/s. I have fought very hard for us and we have made tremendous progress since the beginning and especially since a traumatic breakup 2 years ago. Since getting back together he has been making lots of changes and all in all accepted my boundaries. He no longer gives me the silent treatment, there are few rages although lately after a crisis in October he has been in push and maintained some distance from me. When things came to a head over Xmas I broke up with him. He was mean and hurtful, and I was no longer sure this down period for a few months was just a set back in our recovery and he seemed totally disinterested in making anything work. He then panicked over the breakup and called me. We are now in some sort of limbo state, obviously not good for either one of us. We are also at a stalemate re a dilemma we haven't been able to solve but if he would recommit to T I believe we could find a solution to this also. If we followed the advice we have been given.

Should I make a list of pros and cons? That is hard because not every thing on the list has the same value. I guess what it comes to is this - he is the love of my life, we have so much in common even after the initial mirroring ceased. We have the same dreams although he is a procrastinator and I am a go-getter.

Before this r/s I was alone for almost 15 years and he was different from anybody I had ever met. I am middle aged, I have no other family except an almost grown daughter who is soon moving out. The thought of going back to singlehood is scary and that may sound a stupid reason to stay in a dysfunctional r/s but it is very real for me. It's definitely not the only reason or the biggest, but it is a part of it also. I am worried I will never feel for another man this way again. I am worried I will never find anybody with whom I have so much in common. He has never lied or cheated. He admits he needs professional help and has sought help, but he lacks understanding of the kind of help he needs.

I am equally worried I will not get over the past, things he has done hurts so bad. I need to make it hurt less if we are going to make it work and instead he keeps adding more hurt and pain. If things aren't going to get any better than this I need to leave, but they were getting better so perhaps we can get back on track. For now he is cold and distant when we meet. The lack of affection and attention is hard for me. I find I am able to tolerate less of his disordered behavior but my T is also making me better.

Things are turbulent right now. He is excluding from parts of his life for now me but doesn't want to break up. I expect he is waiting for his feelings to come back and meanwhile there's little contact from both of us. But I ought to make a decision despite this.

Any thoughts are welcome.

[mitti]

Hi all,

A response I got to one of my posts recently made me realize that my sitting on the fence is very detrimental to our r/s. I need to make decision whether to stay or not, I have been in T, both separately and together with my uBPDbf for a while (we no longer go together) and I have got so much stronger but it has also made me less and less decided because I am no longer sure what I want to put up with. I should use this strength either to leave the r/s or to be the stronger person for us. I was looking into the guidelines https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111890.msg1099710#msg1099710 especially #5 and thought I'd ask your help to figure this out.

I have invested 4 years of my life into this r/s. I have fought very hard for us and we have made tremendous progress since the beginning and especially since a traumatic breakup 2 years ago. Since getting back together he has been making lots of changes and all in all accepted my boundaries. He no longer gives me the silent treatment, there are few rages although lately after a crisis in October he has been in push and maintained some distance from me. When things came to a head over Xmas I broke up with him. He was mean and hurtful, and I was no longer sure this down period for a few months was just a set back in our recovery and he seemed totally disinterested in making anything work. He then panicked over the breakup and called me. We are now in some sort of limbo state, obviously not good for either one of us. We are also at a stalemate re a dilemma we haven't been able to solve but if he would recommit to T I believe we could find a solution to this also. If we followed the advice we have been given.

Should I make a list of pros and cons? That is hard because not every thing on the list has the same value. I guess what it comes to is this - he is the love of my life, we have so much in common even after the initial mirroring ceased. We have the same dreams although he is a procrastinator and I am a go-getter.

Before this r/s I was alone for almost 15 years and he was different from anybody I had ever met. I am middle aged, I have no other family except an almost grown daughter who is soon moving out. The thought of going back to singlehood is scary and that may sound a stupid reason to stay in a dysfunctional r/s but it is very real for me. It's definitely not the only reason or the biggest, but it is a part of it also. I am worried I will never feel for another man this way again. I am worried I will never find anybody with whom I have so much in common. He has never lied or cheated. He admits he needs professional help and has sought help, but he lacks understanding of the kind of help he needs.

I am equally worried I will not get over the past, things he has done hurts so bad. I need to make it hurt less if we are going to make it work and instead he keeps adding more hurt and pain. If things aren't going to get any better than this I need to leave, but they were getting better so perhaps we can get back on track. For now he is cold and distant when we meet. The lack of affection and attention is hard for me. I find I am able to tolerate less of his disordered behavior but my T is also making me better.

Things are turbulent right now. He is excluding from parts of his life for now me but doesn't want to break up. I expect he is waiting for his feelings to come back and meanwhile there's little contact from both of us. But I ought to make a decision despite this.

Any thoughts are welcome.

[almost789]

Hi Mitti,

What a difficult decision to have to make. I think you should ask yourselve do you want to stay and accept things as is,? And if so for how long? Because we know change doesnt happen overnight and many times doesnt happen at all. You could could also just take a break. You coukd also make some boundries that you can live with. If he doesnt want you to break up with him then perhaps he needs to be conziderate of your reasonable boundaries. Is he in therapy? Its a tough decision, that only you can make.

[mitti]

Hi SummerT321 and thanks for your response,

I have asked myself what I can accept and for how long so many times by now, but I find that is so hard to see every part of the whole picture at the same time and so I fluctuate between wanting to stay and feeling I need to give up. I don't want to stay if things aren't ever going to get better, but if my life isn't going to be any better without him I also don't want to leave.

He was in T with me for almost a year with a BPD specialist. Then he tried hard to find his own T which was a huge step for him, but it didn't happen. Not sure why as this was while we were going through a crisis. I have now found a place where he could seek T but I haven't been able to tell him about it because of the ongoing drama. He told me last week when things were getting a little better that he didn't want to talk until he felt more at ease with us but just enjoy feeling happy with me again first. And then some new drama and I still haven't been able to tell him about this place. So frustrating.

I like your suggestion about reasonable boundaries. Since getting back together over a year ago I have become a lot better at enforcing my boundaries but I think there were perhaps too many changes too fast for him.

[almost789]

Well on the plus side he wants help and is willing to seek it and work on it. Thats a huge plus. Im just recently considering this concept that they need time to warm back up to us after splitting. Thats very interesting. Ive seen others say that too. Maybe u should just chill and see what develops. Its hard, we get impatient. I got very impatient and i think that pushed him away.My guy though is in denial and im not sure hed even be willing to get therapy.

[Somewhere]

Based on this . . .

He admits he needs professional help and has sought help, but he lacks understanding of the kind of help he needs.

WOW.

IF he is sincere . . .

Do you understand how far towards the Good you are compared to many of us?

Most I have tracked (and mine, too), are far more into BS over r/s.  Will do anything to lie and deny about the BPD and traits.  So little to no hope of fixing anything.  But that may not be your case. 

So back off to friends-while-we-get-you (him) fixed. 

btw, always remember it is HIS problem, not yours -- do not get suckered into paying for therapy, etc. (I speak this caution while being an idiot and doing exactly what I am telling you not to do).

Help him find the help he needs and map out a time-and-progress map towards the "Happy Land," you may both want, and if he will not stay on that course and progress, THEN you can dump him. 

Actually I have a little envy of you.   

You go, girl.

[artman.1]

Mitti,

     I have read your posts for a long very time now.  I see your position with your RS as I have the same issues and even more.  My UBPDW and I have three grown sons together and two wonderful Grandsons.  I have been wrastling with my needs and must get off the fense as well.  Which needs must I ignore for the extended future which means for the remainder of my life.  I am asking myself if I should continue to sacrifice my needs and continue.  If I stay, I will be giving up my needs for the remainder of my life.  Will I ever feel what it is like to really love, and be loved.  I will never find out if I can truly please a woman.  I will continue to feel that I just do not deserve to ever be loved.  All that seems sso very sad. 

     What I am saying is this, You must ask yourself if you actually love someone, or do you love a memory, or a fantasy of your own needs.  Ask yourself if you do truly feel loved, and fulfilled.  Will he ever fully meet your needs in life and in love?  Seriously ask yourself where you stand and will you be willing to continue as is for your remaining years.  If you answer all your questionbs, you must not be continuing on the fense.  You will know which way you need to go.

     With Love for you and your BF, Art

[mitti]

Well on the plus side he wants help and is willing to seek it and work on it. Thats a huge plus. Im just recently considering this concept that they need time to warm back up to us after splitting. Thats very interesting. Ive seen others say that too. Maybe u should just chill and see what develops. Its hard, we get impatient. I got very impatient and i think that pushed him away.My guy though is in denial and im not sure hed even be willing to get therapy.

Sorry to hear your bf is not willing or ready to take a look at himself and consider T. And it is hard for us when we do all we can to make it work. It was a long time before my bf would consider T either. When we went for CT it was his own suggestion actually which was good because he was a lot more motivated.

Yes, it is huge plus that he wants help. This has always been one of the reasons I have tried so hard and why I have stayed. But he flips back and forth a bit also between admitting he has issues and that he needs help to saying it's only depression to blaming me and then back again to himself. I do think though that even in his darkest places he knows there's something wrong with him. He has always talked lots about how he feels and asked me how I feel about things and in situations to compare. His soul-searching is sincere and quite desperate, so sad it's such an effort for him to do something about it. He is not structured in the least.

Yes, it takes them a lot longer to warm up and come back after a split. I have noticed that in my bf too and for a while the time it took him to come back got longer and longer as our r/s progressed, but that has turned now and he seems not to require as long any more. But then I prepare myself that this could change at any time.

You are right about our getting impatient being counter-productive. I have learnt to leave him be and get on with my own things and feel ok with it. It used to feel like dying in the beginning and I would be beside myself with stress and worry but now I can handle it well.

[maria1]

Hi Mitti

How about asking yourself this- realistically:

What will happen to you if you leave? best scenario

What will happen to you if you stay? best scenario (look at the success stories, that's the best you can hope for)

Then ask yourself

What will happen to you if you leave? Worst scenario

What will happen to you if you stay? Worst scenario

You've got four different futures to choose from there- you only have control over you. You pick which one you want and you go for it.

If you still can't decide write out all the risks involved in going for each option. Are you prepared to take those risks?

[mitti]

Do you understand how far towards the Good you are compared to many of us?

Most I have tracked (and mine, too), are far more into BS over r/s.  Will do anything to lie and deny about the BPD and traits.  So little to no hope of fixing anything.  But that may not be your case. 

So back off to friends-while-we-get-you (him) fixed. 

btw, always remember it is HIS problem, not yours -- do not get suckered into paying for therapy, etc. (I speak this caution while being an idiot and doing exactly what I am telling you not to do).

Help him find the help he needs and map out a time-and-progress map towards the "Happy Land," you may both want, and if he will not stay on that course and progress, THEN you can dump him. 

Actually I have a little envy of you.   

You go, girl.

Hi Somewhere,

Thanks for your response. And for your support and good advice. What you wrote made me feel hopeful. I do feel we have an advantage in that he is (most of the time) so willing to look at himself and wants T. He has even himself suggested he had BPD, long before I even really knew what it was. He also has a lot of insight into what is the problem. He told me from early on that intimacy would make him feel panicky. Not that I would have known though, but he also told me that he had never before felt as close to anybody else before me. This means a lot to me, the fact that I did have an impact on his life. He is aware that he has huge abandonment fears also and problems with boundaries with other people, feels constantly criticized, can be manipulative etc. It is his way of dealing with all this that is so non-productive.

Because of this I had such high expectations I guess when we started CT. I don't think I was prepared for setbacks, even though they say it gets worse before it gets better, I still didn't expect it. I also don't want to give up on him once he had committed to T. But as you say, it is his problem. I am truly an enabler, not just him but with everybody. So I was doing well, letting him work at finding his own T. Now I will let him know about this new place and leave him to decide what he wants.

What I find hard though is just being friends for now. I find it hard to be excluded, to have another role but his gf.

Thanks again 

[mitti]

Hi Maria1,

Food for thought, thank you! I am going to do as you suggest and write out these four scenarios and see what it looks like... .  

[mitti]

You must ask yourself if you actually love someone, or do you love a memory, or a fantasy of your own needs.  Ask yourself if you do truly feel loved, and fulfilled.  Will he ever fully meet your needs in life and in love?  Seriously ask yourself where you stand and will you be willing to continue as is for your remaining years.  If you answer all your questionbs, you must not be continuing on the fense.  You will know which way you need to go.

Hi artman,

Thank you so much for responding. I know you truly know what it is like to be in a r/s without having your basic needs met and yet fighting so hard for your marriage. You are such a loving man and you do deserve to be loved. I am so sorry you have been so neglected in your marriage. You ask a very important question. I don't know for your wife and I guess they are all different even if the BPD patterns are similar. I do think for my bf both are true - I do love him as a person. He asks me often whether I think he has any nice sides. He should know I do because I tell him often but as a pwBPD he needs constant reassurance and something to balance out the self-loathing he carries with him. He is a lovely person in many ways and there are many things I love about him. But I also care for him. I feel so sorry for him to be so broken he can't let himself be loved. But I also miss the memory of what it was like in the beginning when I had no idea the kind of chaos that exist inside of him. I miss that and I want it back. But we have had the honey moon stage back, for instance last summer. He was as loving as he was in the beginning and in a way it was better than when we first met because I could love him despite all the trauma we have been through and I loved somebody I now knew. I wasn't just infatuation. I don't know if you have had that back at some point with your wife but experiencing that again with my bf made it worth it. It wasn't just a dream. So I do think that loving and sweet man that I met 4 years ago is also a real part of him just like the disordered side of him obviously is.

Thank you so much for prompting me to ask myself these things.

I wish you all the best art

With love

[seeking balance]

HI Mitti,

To the right, there are links on helping with choosing a path - have you read all of these and written out your answers?

Specifically, I find #4 useful.

If your partner is suffering from BPD or BPD traits, they are living in an emotional world that is very foreign to most of us and they are suffering with very deep wounds.

Step 4 - Embrace the realities of BPD

The order of Step 4 and Step 3 can be interchanged or pursued concurrently. We all process these things differently.

Step 4 is about understanding the basics of this mental illness, Borderline Personality Disorder.

For a long time we've been living with this sense of uneasiness and uncertainty, never knowing when a good day or moment would go suddenly and horribly wrong. That feeling of dread was a constant part of our life, and yet the blame for the problems were always cast onto us.

Is our partner evil? Does our partner have bad character? Is our partner a sadist? Are they insane?

Actually, if your partner is suffering from BPD or BPD traits, they are living in an emotional world that is very foreign to most of us and they are suffering with very deep wounds. Much of what they do can be understood by learning more about the illness. Sometimes they misperceive or misunderstand a situation which causes them intense emotional pain. Some of their coping is so dysfunctional that it is simply harmful to them. Sometimes they are so uncomfortable with themselves they take it out on others to relieve their own pain or make themselves feel valued.

This is a complex disorder. There are many manifestations of it. There are many degrees of illness.

The goal for us is to gain enough knowledge to understand the chaos we've been living with and what is likely going on. All of this is important in understanding what our reality is. It's likely different than we perceive it. We commonly have many misconceptions. For example, it is often thought that there are two people inside our partner and the goal is to eliminate the bad one. Another common misconception is that all BPD is terminal and untreatable. Yet another common misconception is that they don't get treatment because they don't care enough to get better.

In many of the cases in this community, we are not dealing with full blown BPD, but rather a person with subclinical or not as severe traits. Some of the things you have read about BPD may not fully apply to your partner. There are many different presentations of the disorder and different levels of severity.

If we are making life changing decisions we need to have a realistic, practical understanding of what we are dealing with. You can learn much about BPD at bpdfamily and from the books and articles recommended on this site.

Visit our workshops on Choosing a Path

How are you at being able to radically accept these facts and live within this paradigm?

[mitti]

Hi Seeking Balance,

Thank you for responding. Yes, the longer I stay with him the more I realize how foreign his world really is to me. I understand he is suffering but it's hard to digest that it is the fact that I love him and that he loves me that is causing him to feel so bad with me.

How are you at being able to radically accept these facts and live within this paradigm?

Although I know the difficulties connected with BPD and I accept this is be a part of who he is, and although I have read the lessons and several brilliant books on BPD, I also have myself to deal with and whatever debilitating automatic responses and behaviors I have. So I do get fed up with his unrealistic demands on me. It eats away at me that my needs are never important, that it is always about him. I do need balance. And I am in T for PTSD, mostly, but not only, due to the traumatic and turbulent dramas I have experienced in this r/s. It is helping me. But while things got better for a while as I learnt to enforce my boundaries and not fall apart when he went into his push state, it seems he is now not coping any longer with the new me.

I will have a look at the workshop you suggested, thanks