Coming out of hiding

[heartandwhole]

Hi All,

I feel compelled to put something out there. Not sure if it will make sense.  I feel like I'm sitting on a mountain of ... .  something.  Maybe it's grief.  Maybe it's fear, I'm not sure.  My body has lots of aches due to tense muscles, and when I cry or meditate or relax, they loosen up.

I feel like I'm hiding in my life.  I steer clear of people, except my close friends and some family.  I am SO used to being alone, to dealing with my stuff alone  and living my life alone.  I have an extremely self-sufficient and independent air about me, and I don't want anyone to see my vulnerability and most of all my NEED.

There I wrote it.  I am needy, and it scares me so much  :'(   I think I need what most people do: to be accepted, loved and wanted in relationships, for example.  But I'm so afraid to show that.  Because me being needy causes trouble.  It makes people withdraw, and that hurts so much.  With pwBPD, at first we were just internet friends and I was just my free and independent self.  When he told me he loved me (I had suspected that he liked me) it was like a switch was flipped and I began to open to him more and then this crazy need took over me and my co-dependency went through the roof.  It happens in all my relationships.

In other words, my compensatory personality makes people think that I don't need them, or anyone.  But inside I want to be close, want to be held, want to be loved like anyone else.  I don't let anyone see that until I've given my heart away.  I want to show my vulnerability a bit more before I get deep into something that is not good for me.  I want to attract people in my life who can see the softness and vulnerability inside of me, instead of the together loner. (A lot of people may be seeing right through my compensations, but so many friends and family have told me that I seem to not need anyone that there is some merit to it - I think because *I* am not even aware of my needs most of the time.)

How can I open up appropriately?  I'm afraid I will scare people away.  It's just so much easier to not engage, to be alone, or to distract myself with some dramatic r/s.  I know my work is to find out what I really need and start giving it to myself-  which is what I have been working on.  But I want people to see more of my true self, little girl and all, if that makes sense.  The "Journey from Abandonment to Healing" book suggests revealing my vulnerabilities to some new people.  First, I have to meet some new people    

I have been alone or in inappropriate relationships for so long now, I'm afraid that this retreat into myself will be permanent, and that scares me.  In my ivory tower, just doing my thing.  I don't realize how much I want a relationship until someone starts to give me something I've been missing.  Then I start the acrobatics to keep them in my life, but until then, I'm not aware that I want/need anyone.  Hm, writing that made me think of my Dad, who I didn't meet until I was 7.  When he came into my life I was a happy little girl, seemingly not missing a father.  But then maybe I began to need his love and when I got distance and drinking instead, I just shut down my need completely.

Thank you for reading.  I welcome advice or sharing your own experiences with this. Just writing this here, knowing that some eyes will read it is a step, even if there are no responses, and that feels good.  

[Want2know]

I can totally relate to what you are saying... .  you just described my situation.

I have been out of any involvement with a man for a year now.  I recently left my home and the few friends I kept after I realized that many of them were not healthy to be around, and moved to a new city far away.  I knew I needed a change and new surroundings to get to the next step.

So, now I'm sitting in my new apartment in a very cool city, and have much opportunity ahead of me.  Starting again with new people is an interesting experience.  The last time I did this I was with my now ex-husband, so there was some buffer.  Now it's just me and my 3 cats.  It feels good, but I, too, am wondering how to proceed.

You mentioned the word 'fear'.  That seems to be a factor.  Fear of opening up is not my problem... .  it's the fear of not being able to be balanced.  As you described so well, I am independent, but when it comes to relationships, once I'm in, I'm all in.  The men I have chosen in my life to be 'all in' with were not mentally healthy.  I think that makes a difference.

[heartandwhole]

You mentioned the word 'fear'.  That seems to be a factor.  Fear of opening up is not my problem... .  it's the fear of not being able to be balanced.  As you described so well, I am independent, but when it comes to relationships, once I'm in, I'm all in.  The men I have chosen in my life to be 'all in' with were not mentally healthy.  I think that makes a difference.

Hi Want2know,

I really relate to what you wrote, too.  When I'm in, it's all the way, and it is very unbalanced because I suddenly feel that they are giving me something that I desperately need.  But actually what they are giving me is the opportunity to take care of them, with lots of hope on my part that that will lead to them staying and loving me.  I would really like to stop the acrobatics    

The fear for me is of course that I'll repeat the pattern, but more importantly I think, I fear that just being who I am, without the acrobatics and love bombing, won't be enough.

I'm excited for you in your new city.  I know you've done lots of work on yourself before uprooting, so it's really a new day.

[123Phoebe]

Hey, heartandwhole

What you have said really resonates with me, too.  Can't formulate and articulate what all I want to say or add just yet, need more coffee   But wanted you to know that mine eyes have seen the glory of your words.

Introspection... .  right back at'cha

[maria1]

Hi Heartandwhole

Good for you saying the unsayable. Yep I too need to need and find it hard to let anybody see that. I let my exBPD see my vulnerability more than anybody and he went and walked all over it. BUT what was good for me is that it taught me I need to do it- it's a positive I've got from him; he metaphorically held me down to meet my needs.

We're repeating the patterns of childhood. Yours seems straightforward although it won't necessarily feel it?

I have been alone or in inappropriate relationships for so long now, I'm afraid that this retreat into myself will be permanent, and that scares me.  In my ivory tower, just doing my thing.  I don't realize how much I want a relationship until someone starts to give me something I've been missing.  Then I start the acrobatics to keep them in my life, but until then, I'm not aware that I want/need anyone.  Hm, writing that made me think of my Dad, who I didn't meet until I was 7.  When he came into my life I was a happy little girl, seemingly not missing a father.  But then maybe I began to need his love and when I got distance and drinking instead, I just shut down my need completely.

Have you read any of Jon Bradshaw's Inner Child stuff? I think it might really help you with this stuff. I've also just started 'Self Parenting' by John K Pollard which is much lighter but I like. Straight forward about the conversations we have with ourselves that hold us back.

It sounds like you are doing some good and brave work Hearandwhole  

PS I have always hated any type of self help/ pop psychology book, now I'm recommending stuff all over the place!

[Whatwasthat]

Thanks for saying this all so bravely Heartandwhole!   

Much of what you say resonates very strongly with me too. I show the world a very 'independent' and 'self sufficient' face - and I've got so used to doing it that many people - myself included - have forgotten that I have any needs. And yes - like you - I have a hard time knowing what those needs are most of the time! Disastrous!

Maria1's book advice looks good - I'll look into that too.

What I wanted to say - aside from - Me too! - was that I think it could be a major relief for you to be able to say 'I'm needy'. Frightening - but freeing too. My latest thing is repeating to myself - gleefully - in private - and not about anything specific at all - 'I can't cope!'. You know that's the thing I would have been least likely to say all my life - and I was SO proud of being that person who could handle anything (although I really couldn't of course). And now it feels so wicked and wonderful to just be able to say 'No - I can't cope with that!'. It actually makes my muscles relax!

One reason why my brief relationship with a man with BPD (w/NPD traits) traits more than a year ago was so damaging was that he ploughed through all my carefully constructed defences. And - hey presto - immediately promised to 'look after' me without being asked. He got angry if I didn't lean on him enough. Of course it turned out that his wish to 'care for' me was more about his own need than any true bond or commitment to me. The whole thing was a mirage. And his breakneck pursuit of me - and apparent desperate need for me and terror that I would leave him - didn't stop him dropping me like a hot brick. But - like Maria1 - I learnt - in a very painful way - that I did in fact have plenty of needs that were not being met. There's nothing quite like someone coming along and saying that their greatest wish in life is to support you - and then disappearing without a backward glance - to bring you face to face with that fact.


One exercise I try to do now. Make three lists of things that you like or want to do. One is very basic and simple - things like eating a nice meal, sitting in the sun, going for a walk. Then another is a bit more ambitious - things you used to do and enjoy but don't seem to do anymore - going on trips, swimming - whatever. Then a third list is things you've never done and have always wanted to do - learn Spanish, take up cycling etc. The idea is to do three things picked from these lists each day. The things can be steps along the path if the ambition is big - ie researching Spanish classes in your area. The aim is to - slowly over time - let your system know that you will be regularly meeting your own needs every day. This may help you to relax.  It's vital to make sure you don't include anything you think you OUGHT to do - these really must be things you WANT to do. 

Isn't it strange that we're ashamed of having needs?  But somewhere along the way we've learnt that somehow it's not safe or polite to do so. Or that somehow we will be more loveable or valued if we don't show that we have needs. It's bound to feel very strange and 'wrong' at first to admit to it all.

Thanks for helping all of us 'hyper-capable' people to focus on this.   WWT.

[Want2know]

But actually what they are giving me is the opportunity to take care of them, with lots of hope on my part that that will lead to them staying and loving me.  I would really like to stop the acrobatics    

Ding, ding, ding!  That is definitely a part of it.  Being the caretaker is what it seems to turn into for me.  Again, I have to go back to the men I chose needed a caretaker.  Why are we drawn to that?  Perhaps a bit of misguided maternal instinct, and some of our FOO issues (ie. took care of my sister growing up because of the dysfunction in my household).

Good advice and comments here by all (including getting some more coffee).  I like what WWT said about being able to admit it is the first step.  Once you can admit it, then you can choose to do something about it.  Awareness.  I can tell you the next man I entertain getting into a relationship with I will be much more careful with choosing.

[waitaminute]

Heartandwhole,

I have a new old relationship with my normal exwife now. She divorced me because of my LD (non physical) relationship with A BPD woman. But the trauma of the past few years, divorce, the crazy BPD relationship and all the damage it did left me feeling like I need a lot of alone time to rebuild my once moderated, successful, balanced, and (somewhat) focused self.

What I've concluded is that old "cart before the horse" saying. I must use my sense of independence to rebuild myself before any relationship will work. Otherwise my sense of self and life will be dependent on receiving some unhealthy codependent "rewards" from a SO. And that, in turn, makes me a risky partner because if I don't receive what I think I need, I'll surely bump into another woman who will fill that void ... .  Starting a bad cycle of emotional affairs again.

Your own mental health and some measure of wholeness is the real "horse". When you have that in place, bridled, and under control, the "cart" of a new relationship can be pulled safely and steadily as far as you want to go.

[heartandwhole]

Thanks everyone for the support and advice.  It feels good to be among fellow travelers on the need train!

123Phoebe, thank you for the support and I hope the coffee was delicious 

maria1, I'm not sure if I've read John Bradshaw ,but I definitely know of him, have watched a few vids.  I was never attracted to the inner child work, but my recent reading of the Journey book changed that with its exercises with the "little one."  Now I try to check-in with little me regularly, but it's a challenge.  When things get busy or dramatic, she is forgotten again, just like I've been doing for so long.  Like so many of us here, I assume, I've been aware of a lot of my issues for many years, but it's just post r/s with pwBPD that I have gone deeper into understanding and asking for help to change behavior that is very ingrained. 

I know that you have been exploring new relationships lately.  Have you been expressing your vulnerability more openly and sooner than before?  What have the reactions been?   Thanks so much for the support and recommendations. 

WWT, Yes it is very frightening for me to feel, let alone express my needs.  They seem so buried.  It feels great to be accepted here.  It's a baby step.  I really resonate with your description of your r/s with pwBPD (w/NPD traits).  That desire to take care of me happened with mine, too, and it was so seductive because I had never had that before!  Then, OUCH, when it so suddenly disappeared.  It felt like such a deep and primal loss (or repeat of what I had already lost).  Thank you for sharing the list of things I want.  That is another challenge for me - knowing what I want.  I was just reflecting on that the other day and didn't get very far.  Ugh.  Maybe I'm crawling, not taking baby steps    But I can think of small things, it's the big life decisions that get me stuck at the moment.  Thanks for your wise words. 

Hi waitaminute,  Yes very good advice about working on me.  I am not looking for any kind of r/s at the moment, focussing on my healing.  I know that no one will fill that void, but knowing that I wonder if I kind of give up on relationships, you know?  I don't reach toward people because somehow I've got the idea that they will ultimately just "take" from me and I'll have to do the patching up alone, later, so why not just avoid it altogether and stay whole (and alone)?  Geez, just typing that I can see it's twisted thinking - yikes!  And I have plenty of evidence where that isn't true... .  well, thank you for sharing your story, it really gets me thinking.

[seeking balance]

courage to write this post 

My T used to tell me "The greatest strength is in the ability to be vulnerable".

I, too, spent a lot of time alone and was really ok with that... .  at some point I realized I wanted to step out of the safe little box that I had created. It was not easy, but worth doing. 

There is no right or wrong way to do things - as humans, we all want to connect and with our wounds, we are going to be a little shy.  For me, I have a faith that I can handle things now - I was brought to my worst possible pain in my BPD divorce - I have survived... .  I am different now - guarded, less confident - but these traits seem to serve me in "seeing" new people for who they are... .  I am ok giving things time, I appreciate people who have differing opinions now, I listen and when I share I pay attention to make sure it is not used "against" me - if it is, I am also ok backing away now and not continuing to think every person just needs the opportunity to be kind.

Balance - vulnerability vs. guarded - give people the time to show us who they are... .  that's not a bad thing.

[Whatwasthat]

I just wanted to say I'm not very good at the 'big things' list either... .  so I usually concentrate on the 'little things'... .  I don't think that matters. 

[heartandwhole]

seekingbalance, thank you for the wise words.  I think your approach makes a lot of sense.  I read somewhere that sharing a little, then checking in to see how it feels and what the reaction is, then sharing a bit more, pausing to check in, etc.,  is a healthy approach when trying out new r/s behaviors.  It sounds like that is what you are doing, too.   That seems safer and healthier than the ultra fast merging in my r/s with pwBPD.  I hope that I'll be courageous enough to show more of my real self and less of the super independent woman when the time comes.

[Grey Kitty]

I saw something in your first post about the fear of scaring people away that nobody commented on... .  

How can I open up appropriately?  I'm afraid I will scare people away.  It's just so much easier to not engage, to be alone, or to distract myself with some dramatic r/s.  I know my work is to find out what I really need and start giving it to myself-  which is what I have been working on.  But I want people to see more of my true self, little girl and all, if that makes sense.  The "Journey from Abandonment to Healing" book suggests revealing my vulnerabilities to some new people.  First, I have to meet some new people    

If you scare everybody away, chances are you are doing something inappropriate.

If you don't scare anybody away, chances are you are doing something else--Working too hard to please everybody else rather than being your genuine self.

In fact, it is probably in your best interest to scare some people away... .  some people have enough of their own issues that they would only bring pain and drama into your life!

Remember... .  you want people to accept your genuine self. Present it and the ones who like it will stick around.

[heartandwhole]

Great points, Grey Kitty, thanks for chiming in.  I've just realized that yes, my genuine self has (and might continue to) scare some people away, and that's okay!  It means they are not for me (and I'm not for them). Even if he is my father or someone I've fallen in love with.  I like imagining that people who can relate to my real self will stick around - thanks for that  

[maria1]

I know that you have been exploring new relationships lately.  Have you been expressing your vulnerability more openly and sooner than before?  What have the reactions been?

I'm not sure I've ever been guarded at expressing my feelings of vulnerability to people but I have always found it almost impossible to ask people for real help or fully express my needs. I'm probably less inclined to do that with a new relationship but that's because I think I've learned it takes time to get to know people. However one thing I did try and say to myself in my recent short relationship is if somebody wants to help me it's his/her choice. I did try and express some stuff with recent ex but he didn't really get it and that was the end of the r/s. But that was a good and healthy thing- we didn't match up and my boundaries held. I feel pleased with that although at the time I felt bad- looking back I think some of his behaviour was more manipulative than I realised.

Also thinking if I go out on dates with people that is their choice to. I am not obligated to people if they are attracted to me. I don't mean that to sound bolshy but I don't know why I feel like I am. I feel like a big swinging pendulum recently, pulling back, swinging the other way, trying to get the balance right. I'm needing to push some people away right now, as Grey Kitty rightly says but I don't want to push everyone away. It's really tough trying to behave in healthier ways but I'm finding it's better as I go on. In a week I have had about 6 different interactions with people that are completely different than in the past. I'm thinking this is how we grow and change. It starts with recognising what we need to do then practicing.

It's hard when we have lost sight of our genuine self or our genuine self is somewhat dysfunctional; I'm feeling both those things right now but I'm also finding the parts of me I like again here and there.

[heartandwhole]

maria1, thanks for sharing that.  I resonate with what you said about if someone likes me I don't have to have a r/s with them.  I somehow feel obligated, too.  It's that saving people from being hurt or disappointed thing.  It ends up doing more damage than if I had just had stronger boundaries.  But my strong boundaries seem to keep people away, meaning I guess healthy people think I'm not interested in them?  Argh, this can be a bit confusing, still learning.  But like you my behavior has changed, and I've had loads of practice since my breakup to test out my boundaries.  I like this learning.

[maria1]

'But my strong boundaries seem to keep people away, meaning I guess healthy people think I'm not interested them'


Maybe they appear healthy but they aren't as healthy as you think? Or maybe you've just swung a little too far into self protection right now. There's nothing wrong with that- it's your prerogative.

Before BPD relationship I had a 3 month r/s with a man before I knew anything about PDs. He had loads of women friends and one thing he said was that on my Internet dating profile I appeared 'jaded', that several of his friends said so. I think of myself as open and straight forward and the last thing I'd want to appear is jaded. It really got to me which is exactly why he said it.

I compared myself against him and, looking back, he was utterly dysfunctional. I compare myself unfavourably against others who are good at appearing a certain way but actually not honest.

Don't know if that makes sense but I'm trying to say I do t think you're as unhealthy as to think if you are trying to do this work- you are healthier than many put there who never take a second glance at themselves.

[heartandwhole]

Don't know if that makes sense but I'm trying to say I do t think you're as unhealthy as to think if you are trying to do this work- you are healthier than many put there who never take a second glance at themselves.

I hear you, and you are right, in some ways I'm much healthier than I thought.  Thank you for pointing that out! 

[maria1]

I'm relieved you managed to translate with all those typos! Glad you get what I'm saying x

[HowPredictable]

This is a great post, and I see myself in virtually all of the descriptions.   For my entire life I have had worn a persona of self-sufficiency, independence, and utter lack of neediness.  I was always the person who seemed to have it all together, who had no problems of her own, and who could always be counted on to give advice/help to others.

Of course the reality is very different and I'm working on being comfortable with my own vulnerability.   It's a long and painful process, and in fact I have tangible proof of how emotionally difficult it is, in the form of some fairly recent and deliberate "experimentation" I did on taking steps toward growth in this area.

(And I tell this story not to discourage anyone else, but rather to show the depth of my own dysfunction and the struggles that I personally have had in trying to overcome it).

During my romantic relationship with expwBPD, I also had a platonic friendship with another man (whom I will call "Q", and who is still my friend to this day.  Perhaps coincidentally, Q had a long-term relationship with a woman who was diagnosed BPD as well, so we had this to bond over.  I actually suspect Q to have vulnerable narcissism tendencies.   (Confusing?  you bet!)    

Q was interested in me romantically, but I never reciprocated.  However, our friendship continued and it became very emotionally intimate.  (Never sexually, just emotionally).  Meanwhile, expwBPD was up to his predictable shenanigans and I started to learn about BPD and the trauma bond and all the pieces started to fit together.  Q and I had many good discussions about BPD, core wounds, FOO issues, etc.   I deliberately allowed myself to express need/vulnerability, and to accept assistance and emotional support from Q, in ways that went completely beyond my former comfort level.  It was all very new territory to me, and I was interested to see how far I could go.

However, the more emotionally intimate and vulnerable I allowed myself to be with Q (and remember, this was a platonic friendship only, so there wasn't even any physical intimacy), the more I experienced anxiety and panic attacks.  I also developed an eating disorder to cope with the anxiety.  Eventually, I had to discontinue socializing with Q  entirely, because he became a trigger for my anxious feelings.  (To his everlasting credit, he understood completely, and backed off for many months.  We are now taking baby-steps toward re-establishing our friendship).

In short:  allowing myself to be needy and vulnerable was so foreign to me, and so uncomfortable, that it prompted physical anxiety.  I don't regret trying it, but my "experiment" was not a true success, though I hope to try again soon when perhaps I have done a little more work.

With that said, I applaud the courage of all those who have posted.  I really feel we are collectively making progress.  

[heartandwhole]

HowPredictable, that is a powerful story, thank you for that.  I'm so glad that Q respected your needs and is willing to engage again, that says a lot about him, and also you - you picked a good one!  I hope that you will be able to rebuild a friendship and I commend you for your courage to keep unraveling the knots of fear.  It inspires me to keep going, even though it can be so challenging. I appreciate your sharing   

[HowPredictable]

Heartandwhole, I'm glad you found my experience worth reading and I hope it does inspire you to try for your own growth in this area.  In my case -- and despite feeling at times that I was tiptoeing into an emotional minefield -- I found the experience of testing my own limits very rewarding, at least in retrospect.  Now I truly undestand the personal hurdles I am dealing with, and still working on.

And to relate it back to having disengaged fully from expwBPD:  I also gained great empathy for his plight, because as it turns out I can feel no more comfortable with emotional intimacy than he can.  Essentially, he and I both suffer from attachment-related challenges.  And in fact, my intense discomfort at trying to get close to someone really paralleled his in a way, right down to the self-harm (in my case, developing an eating disorder to cope with the anxiety).  So it really helped me to detach, as well; I now understand that because of his BPD he really had no choice in what he had to do, much like I had no choice but to distance myself from Q.   

But good luck with your own efforts, Heartandwhole.  It's worth it.