Pretty Woman: Real or Fantasy?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Especially not for myself. Lets see... .  me writing here like 50 posts leaded you attacking me, and me crying for 2 hours. No, I don't have any empathy for me.

It was nice meeting you all.

[KellyO]

Especially not for myself. Lets see... .  me writing here like 50 posts leaded you attacking me, and me crying for 2 hours. No, I don't have any empathy for me.

It was nice meeting you all.

[just me.]

Especially not for myself. Lets see... .  me writing here like 50 posts leaded you attacking me, and me crying for 2 hours. No, I don't have any empathy for me.

It was nice meeting you all.

Ta-hol,

I've read the messages on this thread, and I suppose I don't entirely understand why/how the conversation resulted in all of this.  But whether or not I understand it isn't really important... .  I just hope that by you saying "It was nice meeting you all" you are not saying goodbye to this board.  I have valued your posts and insights, and it seems unlikely your healing process is yet complete.

Please stay.  You're among friends.  Just talk it out.

[FindingMe2011]

Especially not for myself. Lets see... .  me writing here like 50 posts leaded you attacking me, and me crying for 2 hours. No, I don't have any empathy for me.

It was nice meeting you all.

    Im sorry, that you took this as an attack. This was not my intentions... .  I wish you well, PEACE

[GustheDog]

  Now I see it all, and it makes it hard not to be angry every minute of the day, to MYSELF. He is what he is, he feeds from attention  

   If you see it all, Im wondering how you dont have empathy for the whole situation. To make things worse, you are angry with yourself. Is this fair, do you really see it all? There are no winners or losers here. The wide range of emotions, and thoughts that you have, that you have no control over, could at least be spread evenly, for you the ex, and the r/s. One day you will have to put down the sword, because it is unsustainable. Anger is not a stand alone emotion, and its origin, has nothing to do with this r/s, regardless what you feel or believe. If you dont start putting these feelings in their correct place, and actually using appropriate emotions, when it finally boils down to depression, you will once again, be carrying, unjustly, self-inflicting emotions. This is your rinse, wash, and repeat... .  I wish you well, PEACE

In Ta-hol's defense, I admit that this concept confuses me as well.

They have a disorder.  They didn't ask for it.  They neither think as we do nor are they capable of handling situations in a responsible fashion as we are.

I get that much - and I absolutely empathize with their pain and struggle.  But when someone has wronged you in deep, terrible ways, how are you supposed to feel?  I don't want revenge, nor do I wish any additional misfortune against my ex - but I don't have to like her, do I?  I don't have to excuse her treatment of me, do I?

I tried to address this another thread, but it got little traction.  So allow me to take a different, if silly, approach.

Let's pretend there's a disorder called PPD ("Pizza Personality Disorder".  PPD is a disorder characterized by distorted thinking and repetitious compulsions (just like BPD!).  Sufferers of PPD are addicted to pizza - they crave it, and, without it, they feel as if they might die - even though they won't actually die if they don't get to have pizza.  As you can imagine, PPDs are obsessed with getting their next pizza fix - they just gotta have it!

The problem is that, once they have some pizza, this triggers cognitive distortions that the people around them are evil and wish them harm.  In a great majority of pwPPD, eating pizza actually results in irresistible compulsions to murder the nearest person to them once they become triggered.  In most cases, this is precisely what happens.

PPDs are ill, and they are not malicious.  Their actions are based on repetitious compulsions and faulty perceptions.

If PPD was really a disorder, I believe that society would have little problem adopting the view that PPDs should never eat any more pizza until they receive treatment for their condition.  And PPDs are able to see that they've committed murder pretty much every time they've consumed pizza.  They don't wish to commit the murders; they just can't help themselves.  They frequently report that they hope to find the one magical pizza that doesn't trigger their destructive behavior, but they admit that, historically, eating pizza has always caused the same, deadly result.

Nor do I view this as really any different from someone with severe alcoholism who elects to drive while inebriated and causes injury or loss of life to others on the road.  Alcoholism is a disease - an addiction that many sufferers cannot break without professional treatment.  And, when drunk, a person's judgment is significantly impaired; alcoholics who drive drunk do not intend the harm they may cause - it comes as a result of a disease/addiction and the distorted/impaired thinking that is caused by such disease.

How much empathy are we to have for alcoholics who drive drunk, or for the hypothetical PPDs?

The common denominator is that each illness leads to compulsive behavior, and engaging in that behavior carries a very high risk of significant harm to others.

I think there comes a point when you have to hold a person responsible for conduct that, while it may be compulsive, is entirely foreseeable.  It's foreseeable that PPDs will murder after eating pizza.  It's foreseeable that an intoxicated, alcoholic driver will cause an accident.  And, finally, it's foreseeable that an untreated BPD will significantly hurt their romantic partners.

[GreenMango]

Hello Leaving Members,

We try to have a safe and supportive environment at bpdfamily.  Sometimes the topics can trigger some intense emotions.  It happens to us all.  We ask that if you are feeling "triggered" to please take a moment and step back from posting until you feel more comfortable.  If there are any concerns regarding posts please use the "report to moderator" link available in every post.

Here is our guidelines regarding the discussion format here:

3.1 Advising and Supporting Others: Members should offer advice as peer opinions targeted directly to the host of the thread. Members shall offer only compassionate, well founded and fact based advice.

Members critiquing, or challenging the advise of others should offer their comments in a respectful, positive and constructive manner. Members should respect and embrace the opinions of others, not deride them, and recognize diversity is an important part of the learning process. Collegial Discussion is the exchange of ideas, not a debate or an argument to be won. Our common interests and goals are what brings us together - let it not be what comes between us.

Please be mindful that one of the important roles we all have is to help “center” others, not pile on or inflame emotional unrest. Member should not "hijack" the threads of others by changing the subject. All posts should be targeted to the subject matter introduced by the host of the thread. Our individual thoughts and ideas are important to each of us. Members shall be patient and understanding of other members that are in different stages of the learning or healing process or have different opinions than their own.

If there any questions or comments regarding this matter please direct them to the staff using the appeals or clarifications form here: https://bpdfamily.com/resolve

[Mike_confused]

strange, but my BPD wife's favorite movie... .  at least one of them is Pretty Woman.   She always told me of wanted a blended family, but treated my sons as second rate.   I have rescued her continually for 6 years.     her fantasy is one where everyone complies with her vision.  My oldest son is 22 and is his own person.  He is very respectful but not a push over.   She has a big problem with this.

Not sure where I am going... .  but the "Pretty Woman" thing was erie... .  

[Clearmind]

CLEARMIND: Answers

[Why is it we didn’t recognize the fantasy play out? I think we glossed passed it because of the infatuation

What were we getting something from it? Who doesn't want to find the "one"... .  Have awesome sex... .  "Love"(Even though now we know it was a bottomless pit of need)

Why does it hurt so bad now? Because we believed the "fantasy" ourselves. (we fell in love with ourselves... .  and when they... .  left we lost ourselves)

 wb. I have to wholeheartedly agree!

Now that we recognize we played the role of Richard Gere, what now?

We could all rattle on/vent for weeks, months, years about how we got 'sucked' into a dysfunctional relationship without fully understanding our role.

Why do we vent? Validation? Believe it wasn't us to blame? Avoid our own issues? Possibly!

Now to move past picking apart our ex's - what now? - how do move past the realization it was a fantasy for you both?

[grad]

strange, but my BPD wife's favorite movie... .  at least one of them is Pretty Woman.   She always told me of wanted a blended family, but treated my sons as second rate.   I have rescued her continually for 6 years.     her fantasy is one where everyone complies with her vision.  My oldest son is 22 and is his own person.  He is very respectful but not a push over.   She has a big problem with this.

Not sure where I am going... .  but the "Pretty Woman" thing was erie... .  

She views your children a threat, a holdover from a previous relationship with a  bond stronger than yours for her.  I didn't that long of a r/s with my uBPDexgf but she always made a point to spend time with my daughter and for a longer duration than I could even hold... .  

[Mike_confused]

I agree with all that has been said.   My BPD wife is low functioning as far as I can tell.  Nevertheless I certainly admit I have faults - when she pushed, I usually dug in my heels.  When she said I neglected her it was because I felt as if she was using sex to control me.  She was;  nevertheless I may have neglected  - but not often.

I am really trying to not rail on her; rather, I am seeking validation.    I just need to know that I did not imagine all the things she did and said to me.

[grad]

I agree with all that has been said.   My BPD wife is low functioning as far as I can tell.  Nevertheless I certainly admit I have faults - when she pushed, I usually dug in my heels.  When she said I neglected her it was because I felt as if she was using sex to control me.  She was;  nevertheless I may have neglected  - but not often.

I am really trying to not rail on her; rather, I am seeking validation.    I just need to know that I did not imagine all the things she did and said to me.

my uBPDexGF also mentioned not being very sexual, once a week or once a month type scenarios but with me i got it 4-5x a week, sometimes she'd drive 1 hour just for sex.  the r/s was still in the honeymoon phase before it ended and once right before the split she said she should hold out for a week but that she'd never do that to me.  she also mentioned she was always the one in control of her r/s and that with me she realized she wouldn't be (my daughter trumps everything and i set that boundary early on and stuck to it).  her episodes were management when my 4 y/o daughter was away for the weekend but i made it a point to tell her it'd be different if she was there... .  and i stuck to it and told her to go home when she'd start becoming emotional and saying she wanted to go home and not try to talk her out of it, she did leave but within 5 minutes wanted to come back and drop the issue.  when she returned, she said she'd never come back before.  1.5 weeks later she had moved on to her next target and said she wanted to be free and see other people

[grad]

I agree with all that has been said.   My BPD wife is low functioning as far as I can tell.  Nevertheless I certainly admit I have faults - when she pushed, I usually dug in my heels.  When she said I neglected her it was because I felt as if she was using sex to control me.  She was;  nevertheless I may have neglected  - but not often.

I am really trying to not rail on her; rather, I am seeking validation.    I just need to know that I did not imagine all the things she did and said to me.

i also feel this was a 2 way street and you have to realize these women are more intelligent than you might think.  when they exhibit a behavior such as withholding sex, it's a test to see how you react and when they see it becoming battle on other fronts they will intensify this and other behaviors even more.  perhaps you're both better off not being together if this really was the case and she was the bigger person to let go and move on?

[GustheDog]

I agree with all that has been said.   My BPD wife is low functioning as far as I can tell.  Nevertheless I certainly admit I have faults - when she pushed, I usually dug in my heels.  When she said I neglected her it was because I felt as if she was using sex to control me.  She was;  nevertheless I may have neglected  - but not often.

I am really trying to not rail on her; rather, I am seeking validation.    I just need to know that I did not imagine all the things she did and said to me.

i also feel this was a 2 way street and you have to realize these women are more intelligent than you might think.  when they exhibit a behavior such as withholding sex, it's a test to see how you react and when they see it becoming battle on other fronts they will intensify this and other behaviors even more.  perhaps you're both better off not being together if this really was the case and she was the bigger person to let go and move on?

My ex withheld sex in the midst of complaining that we didn't have enough.  One day everything about me went from all good to all bad - really, it was August 1, 2012 - it is burned into my skull.

And, no, I'm not perfect by any stretch, but it's much less of a two-way street than you might think.  It's a one-way street when you give everything and receive nothing.  It's a one-way street when she decided to stop seeing me as all good and flip me to all bad.  And sabotaging the relationship and jumping ship like I meant nothing without so much as a discussion is a pretty one-way street, too.

Not that she has much control over these behaviors, but the flip-side of this is that, consequently, neither do I.

[Clearmind]

when they exhibit a behavior such as withholding sex, it's a test to see how you react and when they see it becoming battle on other fronts they will intensify this and other behaviors even more.  perhaps you're both better off not being together if this really was the case and she was the bigger person to let go and move on?

Withholding sex is more about control. pwBPD don't realize its a test.

You were simply objectified.

It's a one-way street when you give everything and receive nothing.  

Your relationship, Gus, was more of a perfect union than you first may realize - you gave until you bleed and she took - perfect BPD/'non' BPD relationship - she chose you for a reason and you chose her for a reason. Maybe its time to look at why you felt this was OK.

[Mike_confused]

All:

Yes my wife with BPD did suddenly split me to bad.    And she did take with not much in return.  I never expected gifts or money, or anything material, just respect and consideration for who I am.  It was as if me being myself was enough to make her angry.   We have been separated - only in different houses, not legally - for 3 and a half weeks. 

I am looking over my shoulder, waiting for an attempt by her to recycle the relationship.  I am not sure how I will handle it.