How to tell my Mom NO, you MAY NOT live with me.

[lkk1007]

I had posted (this since I just joined yesterday) on the new member board, but was recommended to start this thread here. I am soo relieved to have found you all, and pray you can offer some assistance. Background quick... .  I think my Mom is BPD, but refuses to ever acknowledge anything could be wrong with her. She is great at picking apart the rest of the world and their faults, but would never agree to something like BPD for herself. She won't seek help. She distrusts doctors and questions them constantly. My Father was diagnosed in November with incurable cancer. They live in a fairly isolated, rural part of Wisconsin. I am in SE Wisconsin--and happy to be here-not up there. However, with Dad given 18 months or less as a prognosis--she is faced with "where will I live, wth and I going to do! I can't live alone, I'll go crazy".

RIght now my biggest hurdle is the phone call that is coming, probably today. How do I have the conversation with her that she can't live with me? They currently live 350 miles away. She has never been alone, and has lived with my father for 37 years or so. She is also morbidly obese, rides a scooter and he is her main caregiver. She goes back and forth with the I can provide for my self, to "what am I going to do, I can't live alone, I will go crazy". Yet, no one can deal with her. When Dad was in the hospital last month the staff there talked with me and told me she is so grating, judgmental, overbearing, opinionated and is causing everyone including my Father extreme stress and anxiety. She was a geriatric lpn nurse and also worked funny enough in the psych wards for our county hospital. She has also acted as though she knows more and has all this "experience"---and I am quickly finding out there are so many things she has no clue about, yet contends she can question every aspect of my father's care. She couldn't ever care enough for herself though and is now confined to a scooter and a reclining chair. It's almost like she punishes my Dad since they were in a car accident a few years ago and she injured her shoulder that she never recovered from it and is now in need of care showering, etc. Perhaps if she had given some though to her future and cared for herself instead of always blaming everyone for her faults and unhappiness and drowning herself in weight she would be able to live a somewhat normal life. So, this is the person that now wants to sell her house, sell my house and build a complex that she can live in attached to my home with my family. As a child she would read my diary, follow me to dances, not let me go places with friends since she needed to protect me from troubled kids in the world. She would come to school when I was 12 and if I didn't have my snowpants, boots, mittens, hat, scarf she would call me out in the lunchroom and scream at me, "LKK, you get over here pronto". My nickname for years after was PRONTO. Yay me. She would question me in detail when I was an adult living in her home about my relationship with my boyfriend (now husband) including sexual questions. She would demand answers. When she found out that as an adult I was intimate she went through my purse. She found birthcontrol and immediately called our Pastor to demand my boyfriend and I confess and seek counseling. She then threatened to call his parents and inform them the awful things we have done. She took the b.c. away and refused to allow me to be with him again. I had a strict curfew also. If I wasn't home by 1am  the doors were locked. I slept in the garage in February... .  in Wisconsin. May I add it was freezing? I moved out about a year and half later and even then was still too afraid to see a doctor and b.c. because I felt she would call around town and demand to know if someone was providing them to me. I have always had to be careful about the expressions on my face, the words that I say, the friends that I have etc. She interferes constantly even today. She demands my children tell her about every aspect of their lives and if they don't call her she gets irate and tells them off, and then me. All of this I still think is normal... .  yet know one I know goes through this. So it can't be normal, right? What is normal? Having a 65 year old Mother still question whether I should go somewhere with my friends for a weekend, whether I can afford to, what my husband does when I am gone, and why I can't take that time to visit them instead... .  ugh. Good Grief. This can't be normal. I can't live with this woman, but I can't figure out the words to say when I have to tell her no. Every reason I will give her will be an attack. Every word will be hurtful. She has had it in her head that we have this fantastic, close, loving,accepting relationship.

I have been trying to right things down, but get an incredible case of writers block? Anyone want to help get me started? I can't run and hide anymore.

LKK

[lessdramanow]

I know this is probably terrifying.  We were in a situation once (H and I) where his uBPD Mom and step dad were looking at houses and then announce to me one day how they found the perfect house for all of us. We never said we'd live together. Then they say that they'll "sacrifice" their nice home so that our kids can move to this house they found so the kids will be able to go to the best rated public school around. I was shaking for days and couldn't sleep. Jumpy to check email and jumpy every time the phone rang. Fortunately, we just decided to ignore their emails and they didn't bring it up in person.

I wanted to give a thought to you, that you know you don't need to provide her the "why" the answer is no. You just need to tell her no. No answer will be good enough, and she just needs the "no".  Of course whether she has the "why" or not, this might start WWIII with her, which is why it's so terrifying.  It's great that you know not to let her live with you and that  you're taking care of yourself by not letting her live with you.    This must be so hard for you, but I know that you will find the right words for you and that once you tell her no, a part of you will feel better and you'll definitely feel stronger in dealing with her after you tell her she can't live with you. You are strong and you can do this!

[lkk1007]

Hi LessDrama... .  Love the "name"! I agree I could use less drama too. You hit the nail on the head about WWIII. I fear it is coming. And yes, I jump at every ring of the phone or message on FB/email. I haven't heard from her in a few days now and I am sure she is expecting me to call and check in. I am choosing to let them reach to me when and if they need to. It will infuriate her, but I get so anxious about calling and never knowing what type of mood, temperament I will walk into. It's better she call. However, the grandkids should call to talk to Grandpa and see how he is feeling etc... .  so we will be calling them tonight if they don't call us first. Wish me luck. I did find the info about SET... .  and am going to make some notes so I am better prepared and can try to stay calm when have "the NO" conversation. I had already told her it would be impossible for her to live with his, she came back with exactly what your inlaws did. Same darned thing. Unreal. The conversation is coming. It will be thrown in my face. I've already given her the NO... .  and you're right. It wasn't good enough.

You bet this is hard. All my life I didn't know she had anything that I could put a name to. I didn't know ANYONE out there "got this". My husband still thinks it could be anything... .  how do we know it's BPD. To which I respond, she has every classic behavioral trait/characteristic and shares oddly enough some of the NPD traits too. For me it makes total sense, and I am willing to accept it even if she is not. IMHO she will remain uBPD too.

[lkk1007]

Just ordered the Kindle version of Stop Walking on Eggshells. Here's to gaining more insight to prepare myself for the inevitable. It's all about minimalizing the conflict and drama. Read about SET, still really confused about that and how it would apply to this situation. Hope I get it soon.

[GeekyGirl]

Honestly, the older I get, the more I'm unsure that the really is a "normal."

In reading your post, I don't blame you for not wanting your mother to live with you, especially given what her behavior was like as you were growing up and when you lived with her before. I agree with lessdramanow that you don't have to give her a long, drawn-out reason why she can't live with you. It might be easiest to use SET to say something along the lines of, "I know that you are nervous about the future and where you're going to live, which I know is scary. Unfortunately, we can't have you move in with us. Can we look at some other housing options close to where you are now?"

Having some other suggestions for a new home might be helpful when you talk to her, so she'll feel like you're validating her feelings and trying to help. Would an assisted living facility be an option for her?

[InaMinorRole]

You've been getting some great responses here, I think.

A couple of other thoughts ... .  kids think their family is normal because it's the only family they have. When it's your only frame of reference you are not really the best judge of just how dysfunctional it is, except your body tells you something is wrong when you jump because the phone rang and it might be your mom, or you feel sick to your stomach whenever you spend time with her, etc. Most other families are not like that and certainly not healthy ones. They may not always get along but what you're describing is more like what we've been experiencing, and it isn't healthy.

I would suggest that you and your husband decide together what you will or will not do in your relationship with her, possibly with a therapist. Time for you to take the reins, as though she were a willful child. Decide how often you want to talk to her on the phone and tell her, I'll call you on Sunday afternoons. If she calls before that check your caller ID, let your husband answer and have him ask if it's an emergency, then say "she can't come to the phone right now but she'll call you back on Sunday afternoon."

Allow her to complain that she's afraid about living alone. That's a valid fear. Getting old and sick sucks and she's going through a really bad time right now with your father's diagnosis (my sympathies about that, by the way). But she is not going to live with you. You don't owe her an explanation why and you don't need to fight about it. If she starts fighting about that or anything say, "I can see you're upset right now so I'll talk to you later." Then hang up. She is going to have to think about other living situations. She's an adult. This is her responsibility.

[lessdramanow]

lkk1007--That is so unreal about the same thing happening with them wanting to sell the house and live together. Do these people all have the same playbook?

I hope it went ok. I know all too well the required multiple weekly phone calls that are dreaded but done to try to keep them "happy"  (ha, not possible but we keep calling to try to minimize the drama).

My H suggested family counseling at one point to try to help things before we found this website. Oddly enough (or not) she wouldn't agree to that. Completely ignored it, and kept wanting to know what was wrong.  InaMonroRole has some great advice.

Good Luck, keep reading and posting, and 

[Sheol]

This sounds familiar. My mom wanted to move in with me after living with my sister and her husband. (It was too much drama even for my mother, as it appears sis is uBPD and bro-in-law is NPD.) After I told my mom No, she called my husband behind my back in the middle of the night when she knew I would be asleep, and tried to convince him to let her live with us, talking about how when she gets her share of the cash from selling my late grandma's house she'll help us buy a house we can all live in. Grandma has been gone since 2005 and the family members who are in possession of it seem to not be in any hurry.

I've been NC now for almost two years, and my husband and I are considering buying a duplex now that we might be able to afford it, but that second half is going to be for tenants who pay rent, not my mother who, like yours, is obese, rides a scooter, and wants everyone to look after her.

The ironic thing is, when she could not get the answer she wanted from the two of us, she finally made her own arrangements at an assisted living apartment and was doing fine the last time I saw her. She didn't need to put us out like that. She must have just wanted to.

[Clearmind]

One of the best ways to avoid drama is not engage, and remove the need to justify and explain – this will only cause a circular argument.

Are you able to break down the reason you may be fearful? This is worth exploring and could provide an answer to how best to manage boundary setting.

[XL]

As a child she would read my diary, follow me to dances, not let me go places with friends since she needed to protect me from troubled kids in the world. She would question me in detail when I was an adult living in her home about my relationship with my boyfriend (now husband) including sexual questions. She would demand answers. When she found out that as an adult I was intimate she went through my purse. She found birthcontrol and immediately called our Pastor to demand my boyfriend and I confess and seek counseling. She then threatened to call his parents and inform them the awful things we have done. She took the b.c. away and refused to allow me to be with him again.

I'm glad you shared this. I went through this as well. This is some of the enduring 'ick' I can't shake off. The overly intrusive, overly sexualized bullying that extended WAY beyond normal parental guidance.

You could offer to contact hospice services, grief counsellors, or help arrange assisted living or in-home helpers, but hold your boundaries firm.