Not sure... but migt be too late

[just screwed]

Hi... .  I wish I would have learned more about BPD and also found this site sooner.  I am married to a BPD person... .  but she is currently living in our 28' camper on our recreational property and has been for 2 months.  We have seen each other a few times in those two months and spent the night together about 6 times since then... .  but i am really about to throw in the towel.  Not sure if I should be on this board or the one for throwing in the towel.   Here is an example... .  I told her I would call her to say goodnight when she was ready for bed.  She was ready and called me.  She asked what I was doing and I was thinking of doing some laundry.  She said I did it all for you when I was there the other day.  I told her it was some hunting clothes i let my kids wear and they got some mud on them.  Wow... .  then the rant began.  "how could you let them wear the $300 outfits?" To which I replied "the are my old ones not the good stuff" She then kept on about it and I said "is this really how you want to say goodnight?  Is this really important?" Then she replied "none of my kids got new hunting out fits... .  just yours" Implying I give my kids more than I gave hers.  And so I said, "ok this is not what I wanted to do so I am just going to say goodnight and I love you" and then hung up... .  trying to NOT put myself in her ridiculous rants and one that turned into the my kid your kid topic (we are a blended family).  Her resentment, anger, rants have taken its toll on me.  I am depressed, walking on egg shells, and down right sick.  I have read the books "stop walking on egg shells", "I hate you don't leave me" and it all makes sense but regardless that I know about the disorder, I just can't keep doing this.  SHe is in therapy and so am I.  I even called her therapist to tell her that "this is what my wife has... .  have you been treating her for it or does she understand she even has it?" To which the reply was... .  "that is one of the things she is being treated for" but she never said she has openly discussed it with her.  I feel like talking to my wife about it but fear the backlash.  I see no hope that anything will improve... .  despite how much I love her.  She brings up stuff from 10 years ago that I did, or didn't do, or how she got hurt by something and she won't let go of anything.  EVER.  I don't want to let go but good lord, how much can one take?  She is the love of my life and I changed my whole world to be with her... .  now it is just crap.  She hurts me daily only to tell me how I hurt her daily.  She drinks heavily and takes trazadone at night to not think about anything.  Her day consists of getting up around 10:30... .  socializing on Facebook/texting... .  start drinkning around 5:00... .  get smashed... .  take a trazadone and go to sleep in about 5 minutes flat.  She is 41 and I am 46.  I feel like I won't make it to 50 at this pace.  There are a lot of great tips on how to avoid conflict, recognize triggers, empathy and validation and so on.  BUT if she doesn't know she has it and is willing to understand it, what the hell is the point?  How do you tell someone "you have BPD and the sooner you start learning about it the sooner we might have a chance"?  This has been going on a long time... .  fake suicide attempts and one real attempt... .  smashing the car into a tree in the neighbors yard because she was drunk at 1:00 p.m. and got into her medicine (I used to lock it up and give it to her everyday until she figured out the code to the safe).  It is just insane... .  and when I remove my emotions and look at this logically... .  I see NO WAY things will get better.  She will never forgive me for anything of which most I didn't even know I was hurting her.  She will not get off the your kids my kids kick... .  she will not stop hating my ex-wife with a passion (I have an email account that my wife can see all my conversations with my ex... at her request... .  only to be told I am not firm enough, didn't say it right, etc.)  I feel better just talking about this and knowing there are other people out there... .  unfortunately I don't know if I am undecided or just done.  What a shame... .  to love someone so much and to likely have to walk away just to not put myself in the grave.  Well this is a long thread but after the complete blow up tonight about the hunting clothes which is so petty and irrelevant, I had to get some things out.  Comments welcomed.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[just screwed]

Ok so my first post was a bit long and I apologize... just so messed up about this.  Bottom line is should I tell my wife "you have BPD and you are an alcholoic and until you admit both, we will be done"  I have read so much on these boards and WOW how much it is true and how much it will help me.  Too bad... I love my wife to death but being in love with her will kill me... .  I am sure.  The emotional abuse is overwhelming.  Why do I keep hanging on?  I have read some posts that say... ''You have created and lived in a fantasy... .  the reality is that it is just that... .  a fantasy... .  it is not real".  We go on nice trips... .  only to have the last day end in ~ and I sleep on the couch after spending thousands of dollars to try and make her happy... .  it will never happen.  I have told her... .  "I will never be able to meet the expectations you have for me... .  EVER" I give up... .  I can learn all the tools and tricks to deal with someone that has BPD but if she doesn't know it and is actively working on it and quits the abuse of alcohol... .  why would you waste the time learning how to deal with someone that will never admit they even have it?  I really feel that I am at the point that it will do no harm to my relationship with her just to tell her she has BPD... .  what is the worst thing that will happen?  She will not talk to me, be mad at me, tell my how I have hurt her, tell me she is angry with me?  These are EVERY DAY occurences... .  so don't feel like I have nothing to lose.

[GreenMango]

JS I know you aren't too sure where this is all going for your wife but I've moved this thread to staying so you may get some seasoned Stayers advice on some tools to apply in this situation.

Check out the lessons here too... .  they add to the books you are reading with the next steps.

[yeeter]

Hi JS,

Im glad you found us, welcome.   

You will get some great advice here from some that have been in similar shoes.

I will start with making sure you are taking care of yourself.  You obviously have a lot going on and a very difficult situation - do you have family or friends to lean on and get support from while you go through it?  Do you happen to have a T for yourself?

We have a saying:  Put your own lifevest on first.  Meaning, you will be able to make better decisions for yourself if you can maintain your own emotional and physical health.

There are tools here that can really help the interactions.  Start with the lessons on the right, and read.  You did great by ending the conversation when it started digressing.

You said it yourself - you will never be able to 'make' her happy, because she isnt programmed to even be able to be happy.  So one piece of work for your own is working on the notion that its your job to make someone else happy - and why is your OWN happiness linked so deeply to making someone else happy?

Just something to think about.  We call it detachment.  Often times being overly enmeshed in the relationship causes things to be worse.  So instead, start focusing on your own self and your own actions.  It IS possible for things to improve - and a big part of this improvement comes by your own action/work.

More to come... .  

[arabella]

You ask whether to tell your W she has BPD. Personally, I wouldn't. She is not going to be able to cope with that information right now anyway. She clearly also has addiction issues that need to be addressed and she will not be able to put the work in to help her BPD if the addictions are not addressed. Since the alcohol and drug problem are probably more apparent (and probably exacerbating the BPD issue as well) perhaps you could start there? It's a smaller step in the right direction and probably easier for her to understand. If she can conquer the addictions then she may be more receptive to dealing with the BPD but there is no point in preemptively getting her back up over the issue when it can't be addressed right now anyway. It's your call, this is just my take on the situation based on what you've said so far.

Additionally, you mention that her behaviour is out of control (e.g. crashing the car) and that there are children involved - this is very troubling. Is she the primary caregiver for her own child? As much as it would be wonderful to fix your r/s, I think that the children, and safety, need to be the priority. Does she see how her behaviour affects the kids (I'm guessing no)?

Learning the skills for dealing with a pwBPD is not about making them better. It's about making YOU better. These skills work whether the other person is aware of the problem or not. She does not have to participate in any way. The point is to minimize the impact the BPD (treated or not) has on everyone. You can't make her better, but you can stop unintentionally making it worse and that helps yourself and your kids.

[Grey Kitty]

 

You will find lots of support and help and good ideas here. I don't want to overwhelm you with it though... .  

Read the lessons here. (Link on the right) The big slogan is your best friend for now:

"Before you can make anything better... .  you must stop making it worse"

First: Telling your wife that she has BPD (and I suspect similarly telling her that she is an alcoholic, although I know less about that) will make things worse. Don't do it. (Perhaps someday her therapist will say that... .  best that you stay clear)

Second: Don't argue with her rages. She is being completely unreasonable. You haven't been able to "talk sense into her" for the last 10 years. It won't work this time either!

At this point the best thing you can do if she starts raging is say "I love you and I don't want to fight with you. I'll talk with you when I'm calmer." Then hang up the phone or walk out of the room, or whatever.

Just protecting yourself from the rages (and protecting her from your responses to the rages) will help a LOT. It will help her a little, although you may not see it. It will help you much more. These rages take a real toll on you.

Once you have stopped being in the rages, you will find more space to think and be able to do more to improve the situation. But start by taking care of yourself.

Are you getting enough sleep, eating well, and getting some exercise or doing other things that you enjoy (away from your wife)?

[just screwed]

Thanks for those who replied.  I have two boys, ages 12 and 15.  She has three kids, two of which are out ofthe house and don't want anything to do with her, have taken her to court, etc.  The third is 17 and leaves for the marines in 3.5 months... .  mostly to get away from his mother and make his own path.  Mine are with us every other week and my step son is here full time.  Even with her living in our camper for the last two months, the step son stays here.  He too doesn't understand her switches and rants and really wants to stay far away from her.  Today... .  she read an email from my ex-wife where she was once again arguing with me about one of my sons and saying things like we need to work together, etc... .  this TOTALLY sets off my wife.  She routinely says she is my second wife and I should've stayed married to her... .  all because I have my kids 50% of the time, want to remain active in their life, watch them grow up.  My wife hates my ex so much that she takes it out on my kids.  She isn't nice to them, sometimes wont eat with us, and wants me to hold the one son accountable for his grades (some D's) and NOT let him play soccer for the school... .  while the other side of the fence lets him.  Her demands are not healthy for my kids and I should be able to make the decisions about/for them.  I have said many times... .  if I don't totally agree and do as my wife says, then I am automatically siding with my ex... .  never free to have my own opinion.  This relationship is so toxic.  I am an engineer by trade with an MBA and I negotiate large contracts for a living... .  so it is SO HARD to not try to fix it... .  to not try to make her see my side... .  to try and point out how ridiculous she is... .  but I have learned that I am only making it worse.  SO... .  once she read the email from my ex (and yes I ahve to communicate with my ex in a fashion she can see), she has changed her mind about being in the camper and said she is coming back to the house to be with her son the last three months before he leaves for the marines.  She is not coming back for me, for us.  She is not going to work on anything or stop with her demands about how much time I spend with my kids every other week (like helping them with homework).  So I told her then I would look for a place to live... I CANT DO THIS ANYMORE... .  I am NOT taking care of myself.  I drink too much myself now... .  I smoke more than ever (pack a day)... .  I don't sleep at all... usually 2:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. and I started to exercise a bit but gave it up... .  i am just too depressed and just crushed over this whole thing.  She will come back here, treat me like ~, instantly turn on a happy face and laugh and joke with her son... .  soon as he walks out of the room... .  BOOM instant switch and complete mental torture.  Like i said... .  i am just screwed... .  this relationship has taken its tool on me and I feel like I could have a heart attack anyday.  Did I mention her ex died of a heart attack last year at age 43?  Likely from the same heartache/break that I am experiencing.  I never thought of it that way but looking back at things she has said and what I know about it... .  it wouldn't surprise me if he died purely because of trying to deal with her.  They were married 17 years.  We are near 5 years but have been serious for 11.  I love her so much people but I don't see any improvement ever... .  unless I was to give up my kids to my ex then maybe she would stop and actually that is the sense I get from her... .  give up your kids... .  choose me above all... .  ugh.  I am exhausted... .  truly exhausted.  I went to tell her about my discoveries about this disorder.  SHe knows she has a disorder but has never said BPD.  I think she thinks it is just depression and anxiety.  I won't bring it up based on the posts but i feel hopeless... .  feel empty... .  feel betrayed... .  how could I do so much for her yet to only be treated like crap?  Yet... .  SHE thinks SHE is the one who has sacrificed, gave up things, etc. Can't ever win... .  can't even get on first base with her. 

[arabella]

Unfortunately, I think you've assessed the situation very accurately - this isn't viable or healthy for you or your kids. And as long as you 'put up' with it, you're only enabling her. I can tell you this much though - giving up your kids wouldn't help. Even if you could bring yourself to do it (how awful!) and she had a 'moment of clarity' it wouldn't last long enough for her to get help. She might listen, she might even agree, but as soon as she thought you/therapist/whomever was 'trying to change her' she'd be off in an unreachable rage again. She's entrenched in this behaviour at the moment. I mean, she knows she has problems (depression, anxiety) yet she still won't seek help for the addictions that make those problems worse - what does that tell you about her mindset?

The situation is so sad. I always feel like there should be something we can DO. But I keep getting told over and over again that I can only control my own life and I have to leave things be to wait and see how they resolve. It's so hard, but I know it's the right advice. You can only work on you.

[Grey Kitty]

she has changed her mind about being in the camper and said she is coming back to the house to be with her son the last three months before he leaves for the marines.  She is not coming back for me, for us.  She is not going to work on anything or stop with her demands about how much time I spend with my kids every other week (like helping them with homework).  So I told her then I would look for a place to live

That is the best thing I've seen you write so far!

You ARE starting to take care of yourself, and sometimes the first step is the hardest.

Do you have any friends and/or family that can give you a place to live with your two sons until you find something better?

I CANT DO THIS ANYMORE... .  I am NOT taking care of myself.  I drink too much myself now... .  I smoke more than ever (pack a day)... .  I don't sleep at all... usually 2:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. and I started to exercise a bit but gave it up... .  i am just too depressed and just crushed over this whole thing. 

 Wow. I'm so sorry to hear how far you've been beaten down.

Do you have any friends or family that could support you to spend time with?

Do you have a therapist for yourself?

[just screwed]

I have no family in Virginia... .  I am one of the only few kids who left Western NY.  Because of the marriage then divorce and desire to be with my kids... .  I am VA bound until they grow up.  And No... .  No friends... .  been consumed on trying to deal with this relationship.  This site is my closest friend right now.  I talk to my mom daily but she just tells me to be done... which i understand from her perspective.  I do go to therapy every week right now and he tells me the same thing... .  only can control and change yourself.  It is just so heartbreaking and sad... .  I love her with all my heart.  Not enough.  She tells me she is coming back tomorrow and I should be able to "deal with it" until her son goes to the Marines and says we will mutually respect each others space/time with our individual kids but I KNOW that she will continue her mental torture... .  treat me like crap and laugh/love her son almost in a tormenting way right in front of me.  Then when mine come here, she will treat them like crap too.  I told her I understand and respect her need to be with her son the last 3 months... .  but also said I cannot promise that I can stay... .  and likely won't.  Bet I am gone in two weeks.  This week will be without my kids so I can probably suffer through it but when they come back, her true colors will come out.  I can't take being in love with someone and have them be so cold, rude, demeaning, etc to me... .  it is absolute torture.

[Grey Kitty]

I have no family in Virginia... .  I am one of the only few kids who left Western NY.  Because of the marriage then divorce and desire to be with my kids... .  I am VA bound until they grow up.  And No... .  No friends... .  been consumed on trying to deal with this relationship.  This site is my closest friend right now.  I talk to my mom daily but she just tells me to be done... which i understand from her perspective. 

Would telling your mom that you see her point, but you really just need a sympathetic ear more than a kick in the pants right now help your conversations with her?

Well... .  you are in it for a while. Start putting some time and effort into cultivating more friends where you are.

I do go to therapy every week right now and he tells me the same thing... .  only can control and change yourself.

Yeah, I'm part of that broken record. Just the same I'll give you a sneaky bit of hope: If you do change yourself, you can change how you relate to your wife. If you do that, it gives her room to change and impetus to change. Things can improve a LOT from just changing yourself.

I KNOW that she will continue her mental torture... .  treat me like crap and laugh/love her son almost in a tormenting way right in front of me. 

Ouch! I've felt that one, where the hate shines on me, then the love shines on another. Then the hate shines back on me. It is soo painful.

Then when mine come here, she will treat them like crap too. 

Do you have an "escape plan" to protect your kids if this happens the way you are afraid it will?

I was also re-reading something in your original post:

She will not get off the your kids my kids kick... .  she will not stop hating my ex-wife with a passion (I have an email account that my wife can see all my conversations with my ex... at her request... .  only to be told I am not firm enough, didn't say it right, etc.)

Letting your wife do this just seems to make things worse for all involved. I don't know how your wife's "request" for this was done, but perhaps you need to re-negotiate this?

More questions:

What rights does your wife have to parent your children? Legal rights? Did she just end up doing some co-parenting?

What kind of support can you get from your ex-wife? Are you on good terms? Is she sympathetic with your plight? Aware of it? Will she have your back when it comes to taking care of your children?