5 Domains of Parenting and where they live in my brain

[qcarolr]

I just can't do this topic justice. Dan Hughes and Jon Baylin can. I found the slides from their keynote address at the ATTACH 2012 Conference. It has the pictures too. Can we build this discussion from this slide presentation?

www.attach.org/resources/forms/conference/2012/hugheskeynote/danhugheskeynote.pdf

Understanding the brain and vagal nerve process, and how it builds safety for us to be able to engage each other, underlies all the methods that seem to work within our families. There is a need for sensitive parenting to help the child develop these circuits. His PACE parenting plan - to build healthy attachment - can open up the neurological circuits that may have been blocked by insensitive caregiving.

Here is a quote from the end of the book "Brain Based Parenting" that sums it up for me:

"Your brain is designed to help you to achieve those goals - the full brain, working in integrated ways and working in concert with your child's brain.Yes, the news is that there is a Wi-Fi connection between your brain and your children's brains. For better or worse. We hope that we have increased your awareness of how this wireless connection - with its open, engaged, intuitive, empathic, reciprocal features - is capable of working. You have a brain designed for parenting. Take advantage of it."

Book review:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=195469.0

Looking forward to hearing back - what are YOU interested in talking about here?

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

I have just flipped through the brain pdf and flipped my poor brain a little too. It is a lot to try to take in. As I was 'reading' it I was thinking, yes, then no, then ok, then, i don't know etc etc. I think I have a bit of a way to go before I get any depth of meaning.

The bit I want to focus on now is the 5 interacting systems of the social brain:

•  SOCIAL APPROACH SYSTEM: Ability to get close to another person without becoming defensive

•  SOCIAL REWARD SYSTEM:    Ability to enjoy interacting with others

•  PEOPLE READING SYSTEM:   Ability to understand the minds of other people ("mindsight"

•  MEANING MAKING SYSTEM:  Ability to construct social narratives based on experiences with other people and to "make sense" of our social life

•  EXECUTIVE SYSTEM:            Ability to regulate interpersonal conflicts between approach and avoidance, pro-social and defensive reactions

It seems to me that my dd can be fine with the first 4, but that last, her executive system, is haywire and that distorts her sense of reality which then affects the other 4 systems. Possibly her (and my) people reading system isn't so good either.

and what 'blocked care' means: “violation of expectations” of reciprocated love can cause the parental reward system to “crash”

When "blocked care" occurs the result is "Stressed out brains (which) constrain the people reading process, fostering hyperfocusing on negative features of nonverbal communication"

So, that can lead to "Parenting with Blocked Care":

PARENTING IN SURVIVAL MODE

APPROACH SYSTEM “OFF”, DEFENSE “ON”

NARROWING OF THE CHILD READING SYSTEM

IT’S PERSONAL: THE REJECTION SYSTEM

POLARIZED NARRATIVES:  ME VS YOU

FLIPPING THE LID:  PFC SHUTDOWN, AMYGDALOID PARENTING

Ok. So, in my situation my dd was difficult from birth and limited in her ability to reciprocate. I was isolated, unsupported and suffered post natal depression. I was aware of my own hyper anxiety (high sensitivity) - couldn't bear to hear a child cry, any child and if it was my dd I was immediately there trying to soothe. Being conscious of my anxiety I worked consciously to reinforce a sense of security for dd. I didn't want her to be affected by my anxiety and neither did I want her to develop her own anxiety. So, when she didn't reciprocate, I still consciously worked on reinforcing a sense of security for her. I suppose though that especially as time went by, my non verbal communication was betraying my intentions. By puberty, the patterns of behaviour were well set into play and I felt powerless to do anything to change how things were. In retrospect some could consider that I failed in parenting. Personally I think I did an especially good job in a hostile environment. If I hadn't done as well as I did, I shudder to think how it would have turned out.

What I didn't have and didn't understand was 'validation' and mindfulness. Back then I was unable to meet my own emotional needs and looked to others for that: this I think was what I inadvertedly taught my dd.

Because the brain is 'plastic' it can change. It is possible to change ourselves and how we think and how we act. Change at a deep level, not superficial. This we know.

It has been a hard journey, as a parent, to change - but I am changing. How much harder is it for my adult dd to do so? Very hard indeed, but not impossible at all.

Vivek     

[qcarolr]

Vivek  - WOW, you plucked the meat right off that bone! Jumped into the heart of it all. And came back to the place that seems to work the best for many of us - validation and mindfulness.

So do we need to immerse ourselves in all the background details - the 'how' and 'why' - to find the path to making things better in our lives? What the heck am I searching for in all the details.

I have just flipped through the brain pdf and flipped my poor brain a little too. It is a lot to try to take in. As I was 'reading' it I was thinking, yes, then no, then ok, then, i don't know etc etc. I think I have a bit of a way to go before I get any depth of meaning.

The best way to unblock my brain is to take care of my own needs -- get myself out of survival mode. I was not always present for my DD when she was young - I was struggling with my own mental illness and in that way the whole world revolved around me. Sometimes I wonder if I needed to adopt a chld because I wasn't really 'supposed' to have any. It is so easy to accept this when DD yells it at me in her anger. Then along comes this wonderful little gd into my care. And I get a real 'do-over' experience from this new place that am at. Then I realize I am also given the chance to do it again with DD in so many ways.

So, is there an inherent limit to the level of change that my DD can make, even given the best access to all the strategies out there? Are we each born with our potential set by some genetic pattern - even if all conditions in the environment inside and out were able to be 'perfect' - we would still be a unique individual with strengths and weaknesses? Something that is beyond our human capacity to control or change?

Do I ask this to make myself feel better - have to take care of more of my needs here? Or is this part of my radical acceptance that I cannot know the ansers to these questions. Can let all the questioning go, and love my D as much as she will allow me to give. Validation and mindfulness -- opens us up to each other in so many ways.


Here is the other half of the story from Dan Huges and Jon Baylin - their version of validation and mindfulness. They call it PACE - Playfulness, Acceptance, Curiosity, Empathy. This is also in their book "Brain Based Parenting". This link is from a workshop on PACE from the same ATTACH 2012 Conference.

www.attach.org/resources/forms/conference/2012/hughesworkshop/danhughesworkshop.pdf

What do you think? Is this helpful only for parents of younger kids and teens? Can it be adapted for our grown up kids? A new language for the same skill set?

qcr  

[vivekananda]

Hey there!

After I wrote all that, I thought - I don't need to try to understand to the depths of all that brain stuff. It is just telling me stuff I sort of understand already, but in a different way. A bit of resistence there.

Now the PACE stuff is a bit different. It all complements what we know and as I see it, tries to develop a sense of a deeper level of communication - where minds/brains almost merge to achieve a mutually pleasurable experience of understanding and knowing.

I think a 'flaw' in it is assuming an understanding of mindfulness. It is the buzz word in psych and has entered popular culture. So 'everyone' thinks they know what mindfulness means... .  I am conscious that in our world, words are bandied about until they almost lose their meaning. You know how hard it is to come to terms with what acceptance means. I have come a long way, but still feel I still have depths that need exploring in that regard. Some think that I am hyper critical of myself, by I do feel that critical self reflection is an ongoing process of learning. So, PACE doesn't seem to demand of the adult that critical self reflection I think is essential for someone in a challenging or difficult relationship.  

I would have taken to PACE like a fish to water when I was a young parent. I would have used it to the best of my ability and done my utmost. I would have believed I was doing it all 'right'. And maybe if my dd wasn't predisposed to BPD, it would have been really good. Not only was my dd more predisposed to BPD than some, she was born into families where BPD behaviours were/are common place (extended family - dh and I have improved out of sight in last 12 mths, still a way to go though). BPD type behaviours are not unusual in my world.

I think the important thing for me to realise was the information I learnt from NVC about being able to identify and to meet my own emotional needs; and that when we communicate, we are in some way communicating our emotional needs. So, I can help others identify their emotional needs and support them meet their own needs, but I can’t meet their needs. This I still need to come to grips with. What does it mean to a parent of a young child? Does it still hold here?

So, I think PACE is not enough in and of itself - for example, it doesn't go into the need to 'detach' and to let go of one's own ego in a relationship, in communication. It identifies acceptance but not the other 2 components of mindfulness (a la Harris).

As for adult children of BPD, such as my situation, PACE doesn't strike a chord. In my situation, my dd's deeply entrenched hostility towards dh and myself, precludes something like PACE. PACE seems dependent upon the idea of a relationship between one person who is 'powerful' or in control or an adult, and another who wants to be understood, who is dependent on the other. Maybe I am not seeing it clearly, but this makes me suspect. It is an hierarchical construct and as such it is not helpful for NVC. My dd is desperate to maintain control and I don't think she can have an ongoing relationship unless it is one where she has control.  

Now I don't think there is a limit to the change we can make within ourselves - but maybe that is relative. You know how we talk about baby steps: developmental, incremental change. That is probably what limits us. My dd has the potential to change her thinking and behaviours completely - so does yours I think. But what stops them from achieving this potential is all of the things that stop everyone from achieving their full potential. Of considerable importance, in my mind, is a world where immediate gratification is the desired result, where celebrity culture reigns supreme, where problems are solved by superheroes who take on the baddies and use violence to solve problems. A world where we are struggling to keep our heads above water economically, where we are working our butts off to make ends meet and have no time for our families, where we are so tired we get sick. Our world is individualistic, materialistic, competitive, not communal, spiritual and co-operative (well in bits and pieces it is).

But qcr, if we, for all our own flaws can do it. Why can't anyone?

too long again... .  sorry,

viv  

[qcarolr]

But qcr, if we, for all our own flaws can do it. Why can't anyone?

too long again... .  sorry,

First - for me - it can never be too long, esp. in this thread of exploration.

Second - why not anyone, the paragraph before this one says it pretty clearly. It takes a lot of hard work, willingness to change, openness to new ways of thinking and doing -- a long view and delayed rewards.  Maturity comes to mind. I am 57 and have been actively working on 'healing' myself since 1989. My DD is nearing 27 and has avoided working on herself until just recently. She is  a newborn on reflection - just beginning to question her own motives and choices - just barely becoming aware that her actions have an impact on others that is coming back to bite her. Just being able to take in and hear the questions others are asking about her hanging out with a couple of ex's - at the same time - like "who are you with". I am amazed a these beginning steps to self.

So, for our adult kids, PACE is not it. And there is a lot of deeper layers presented in the book "Brain Based Parenting" and other books about PACE as part of attachemnt theory/therapy. The link I put up is extremely simplified and we do not have the verbal narrative that went with it a this conference.

I have just begun reading  a couple books - hard for me to read as written by a research guy - that do focus on "conversation model of therapy for BPD". There has to be a connection to doing therapy first. I see links to all the other stuff plus some new ideas. I will let you know how this is going - so hard to find quiet reading time when I am not too tired to take it in. Meares is the author.

I also want to thank you for your thorough feedback. There is work being considered to put the PACE info on the other parents board - for those raising younger kids with a BPD parent. The focus of PACE is to train the parents who then become therapeutic parents for the kids traumatized by difficult starts in life. In our scenario this is the effects of BPD in our historical parenting models.

Gotta go get gd to bed.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

I am suspicious of any 'conversation' model of therapy, or 'talk based' therapy. I think it gives licence for the therapist to indulge their pet theories. Also, this type of therapy I believe places a lot of trust in keeping an emotional distance (I can't remember the right phrase, but it means no validating type of language to avoid seeming to be judgemental I think).

Given my suspicion of therapists in general and psychology too, you could expect that perspective from me. I treat them with a good deal of sceptical investigation.

In the academic world of publish or perish, there is much published for general consumption that has not been peer reviewed and there is a good deal of self promotion and such like. I like to understand the research underneath these theories, what is the philosophical underpinnings... .  

Nevertheless, there has been so much good work done by good people, I suppose I shouldn't be too critical.

Hope the dreams were sweet,

Vivek    

[vivekananda]

by the by, why can't I find this other board you are referring to?

There is work being considered to put the PACE info on the other parents board - for those raising younger kids with a BPD parent.

What am I missing here?

viv   

[lbjnltx]

by the by, why can't I find this other board you are referring to?

There is work being considered to put the PACE info on the other parents board - for those raising younger kids with a BPD parent.

What am I missing here?


viv  

Parenting After the Split

[qcarolr]

I am suspicious of any 'conversation' model of therapy, or 'talk based' therapy. I think it gives licence for the therapist to indulge their pet theories. Also, this type of therapy I believe places a lot of trust in keeping an emotional distance (I can't remember the right phrase, but it means no validating type of language to avoid seeming to be judgemental I think).

There are two books I am reading published in 2012 by Russell Meares. One is the research and history of dissociation, and how he believes this is a primary part of BPD (self based criteria) with the dysregulation emotional criteria as secondary. Lots and lots of good research -kind of hard for me to read as I keep DISSOCIATING  The other book follows this, and is about the Conversation Model. It is really about being validating T with focus on safe environment for pwBPD, and support of T by supervisor for her own triggers with toughness of working with pwpbd. I am reading a case the case study chapter.

So until I get through these all the way, I need to reserve my full opinion. Just very very interesting to me - and also very triggering for me. I have struggled with dissociation and dysphoria in the past and for much of my life starting back as far as I have memory - age 3 or 4. I have moved away from this with lots of different therapies over past 25 years and meds that arrived for me in 1999. Yet I am worrying about it again with increased stress and fatigue. Am going to bring this up with my T - who has been with me since about 1996.

I also keep wondering about how the new DSM 5 changes to BPD will fit into this model. Have not had a chance to look into this yet. It should be relesed in May 2013. Wonder how many new books will be coming out with new criteria and how this will impact treatment plans.

qcr  

[Reality]

qcaroir,

This information about dissociating is very interesting.  My son was in a trance, dissociating most of his life.  I guess that is what shamans are doing as well.  Mystics... .  

I guess that is why RTC's with a focus on re-engaging with peers, adults, hobbies, exercise, nutrition, sleep work so well.  They bring the person back into physical reality.  What happens if you don't eat?  Go to a trance.  :)on't sleep.  Trance.  :)on't talk to other people.  Trance... .  Drugs... .  Trance... .  

I think my poet/trance state, which I honour, was not the best fit for my son.  Practical approaches go a long way.

Mentalization brings the person/persons out of the trance state into word-defined reality, shared understanding of what is really happening, out of the realm of crazed projections back to life.  

qcaroir, I may have missed something. Which of these books would you recommend to read first?

You have given me so much important information in the last year and I am very grateful that you share your findings with us.

There was an article in The Globe and Mail this week-end, concluding that there are genetic similarities amongst people who have ADHD, autism, Bipolar and schizophrenia, just an initial study yet interesting... .  

Reality

[qcarolr]

I downloaded them to my kindle and have been alternating between them. Sometimes the dissociation book overwhelms my brain and the CM book is more practice focus. I am leaning to filter out the endless parenthetical cites mixed in the text to get a better flow of the material. Makes my eyes and brain tired  

The hard copy books are expensive - the digital versions were affordable for me.

I so appreciate the feedback on this thread -

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[oglobaith]

Thanks for sharing qcarolr.  I found the info you shared very interesting. For me, as a 56yr old ex registered nurse, I'm not sure how much to engage with theories like these  - even though they may have some use.  As you've no doubt gathered I really believe that the only one who can truly tell how the human body, soul and spirit (including the mind) work is the Maker and that there are a lot of 'variables' that for me don't resonate with this model.  My uBPDdd 27 certainly had the PACE style of parenting (I know we weren't perfect and I may have at times been over protective but in general there was adequetely sensitive parenting). I still believe that there's a spiritual element to the disorder which could be healed  by the Presence and Power of Father God and through Jesus.  I don't knoe if you.ve read 'Healing the Past, Releasing the Future' by Frank and Catherine Fabiano - this would put it much better than I can.  There's another book I found interesting - Pills for the Soul by Dieter Mulitze - just offers another perspective.  I'm sure we can use what we find of value in these works and mix and match to a certain extent!

I guess my persepctive is that of someone who has found medical science to be wanting in so many ways especially in the realm of mental health, and I wanna see it from God's viewpoint as my Heavenly Father.   Hope that comes across ok x

[qcarolr]

I still believe that there's a spiritual element to the disorder which could be healed  by the Presence and Power of Father God and through Jesus.  I don't knoe if you.ve read 'Healing the Past, Releasing the Future' by Frank and Catherine Fabiano - this would put it much better than I can.  There's another book I found interesting - Pills for the Soul by Dieter Mulitze - just offers another perspective.  I'm sure we can use what we find of value in these works and mix and match to a certain extent!

I guess my persepctive is that of someone who has found medical science to be wanting in so many ways especially in the realm of mental health, and I wanna see it from God's viewpoint as my Heavenly Father.   Hope that comes across ok x

oglobaith, thank you so much for this perspective. My faith in God has given so much strength to my Acceptance of so much in my life that is hard and out of my control. Yet, I still find myself in a place of willful and stubborn resistance. Maybe it is the very analytical mind that I have been given, and a warm but often distant heart.

I have downloaded the "Healing your Past... .  " book and will let you know after I read it. The bit I read online sounds very interesting.

I do think all things are working together for our good - just that I often don't see the part I play.

It is so evident to me reading from so many parents here that some of us are born with a better starting place than others - even the most loving caring validating mom/caregiver does not lead to an easy path into life for so many of our kids. There is a geneitc link here, not just life experiences. I have many spiritual questions looking for understanding and wisdom about, and how they are interelated to the soul.

And then I do believe there is much that is to remain a mystery in this earthly life, even as we are driven to looking for the answers to the mysteries.

qcr  

[qcarolr]

Vivek  put the heart of this topic in her reply. I am finding peacefulness, within my limited experience, from this explanation of how our physical body (body, heart, mind), in all its wonderful configurations, works to connect me in each of the relationships in my life. And this is totally supported by my faith in God in his wisdom of our creation. I am a model made in his image.

The vessel that holds all of this theory is Love - all encompassing, unconditional love. Daniel Hughes permeates PACE, his model for becoming a therapeutic parent, within the pool of love. If a parent is unable to be in this place, this is the greatest Block of all.

You and I come here deep within the love of our children who are in such pain. Those suffering the rigors of BPD are in pain, each sibilng and parent within the family is in pain - in their own unmet needs and feeling the pain of their pwBPD. The parent connection is strongly embedded in our physical body (body, heart, mind).

There are many who live deep in their own pain, apart from being a parent. This is another question - how the patterns in the parent also block their abilities to balance this awesome physical body (body, heart, mind).

When I can be living from within my spritual beliefs, than I am more open to meting my needs and being available to work on overcoming the blocks in the systems of my physical body (body, heart, mind). This comes back around to having access to practicing mindfulness, validation, and taking care of my needs with values-based boudnaries.

Are you willing to share how you get there - grounded in the vessel of love?

qcr