How do you trust again?

[benny2]

So he said a few weeks ago he wants to work this out with me. All has been going fine except for the issue when he could not get ahold of me a couple days ago. He is constantly bringing up the dates I went on when we were apart, but yet he says it does not bother him. I reminded him that he told me to move on and date. This morning bright and early, his phone goes off. He ignored it, at least while I was there. I mentioned to him, you have a message and he responded yeah I heard it, I'm not worried about it. Then he said would you like to look? He knew I would not. I was afraid it would start something. The last time I asked to see his phone while I was living there started a huge rage. I want to be able to trust him, but I don't. How do you trust them again after so many lies and games? Can someone like that actually change?

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[arabella]

The last time I went through something like this I sat my BPDh down and told him that if we wanted the r/s to work then he was going to have to help me rebuild trust between us. We agreed that looking at each other's phones, etc. was acceptable for at least the first year back together. I told him that it wasn't that I didn't trust him per se, but that many of these things (phone msgs, texts, emails, etc) were very triggering for me and that I needed his help to start feeling better. Obviously I had to agree that it would go both ways, but it did really help. I'm not sure if you could get  your bf to agree to something similar?

As for the trust issue... .  I was going to start a thread on that myself. The last round I managed to pull it all back together, and we were fine for many years. This time is different and I'm not so sure I'll be able to get over it. It's making me really sad and stressed. In my case, no, he didn't change. He got better for many years, but it seems to always come back around. And even at his best, he still lies and plays games - he knows it and even he doesn't like it, but he can't seem to stop. I don't think there's much hope for change without some serious therapy.

[TigerEye]

Can someone like that actually change?

The change starts with you benny2. Have you looked at your expectations of what this r/s can be? Are you hoping against hope that this will stop overnight? When the normal channels of regaining trust are not available to us, are we prepared to undertake the work needed to rebuild it ourselves. I truly wish there was a quick fix to this problem as it is one that I am having to deal with myself.

As a connection is not made between the things that they do and the hurt that those things cause, they see it as "but I'm not doing anything wrong". As they genuinely don't do it to hurt us, they don't get why are we hurt, even if they know that what they have done does hurt, it's all about the intention it seems. Logic that one out!

So it falls to us nons to take the lead, and to do that we have to look at our values and try to set boundaries to protect us, what are we willing to put up with and remain in the r/s? Sounds easy, but you have probably seen post after post from nons who are struggling with this. We have to accept that there are consequences to our boundaries being crossed, especially if those boundaries are something we feel to be a deal breaker, like (for me) emotional and physical fidelity for example.

For change to happen there has to be an acceptance that there is a problem, and for a pwBPD, that is emotionally loaded. They do feel shame and that is why they often lie and deceive, it's like a defense mechanism to protect themselves, they have to believe it didn't happen or they have to face the devastating fact that they have hurt the one's closest to them which will destroy them.

We can't make them change, but we can decide what we are going to do if they don't. Using the tools we can communicate our wants and needs, but then we have to relinquish our control over the outcome, it's over to them. There will be resistance and probably a few false starts, again, it falls to us to decide how much we are willing to accept as work in progress.

As for the accusations about what you did, they are mostly bait put out to trap us, to distract us from our goal. If we pick up the bait and JADE we can be made to feel bad as they do and that evens the playing field. It's best to try and disengage from this and accept it's just words.

Sorry it's a bit long winded, I did say I wished there was a quick fix!

[benny2]

Thank .you for the repies and yes tigereye I agree with you. There is no quick fix, it all takes time and alot of work. I have set boundries with him. I did tell him that I can deal with the anger issues, the mood swings, but I cannot and will not deal with the lies and cheating. Somehow I think he figures he is a master at hiding these things, but I can always tell when hes doing it. In his eyes, as long as he in not caught red handed, he can lie his way out of it. Well even when he is caught red handed he tries to lie his way out, but you are right and I have heard this many times from him. "I did'nt do anything wrong." I really do think they believe that and need to believe that. I'm taking things one day at a time and learning more and more along the way.

[TigerEye]

Even now it still amazes me how similar stories posted on this site can be. Take some comfort in the fact you are not alone in your struggle, I am right where you are. We gain strength by sharing and learning, keep sharing with us, it's great to be in a place where we make our choices and are not judged for them.

My strategy just now is to tackle the infidelity, because if we can get past that then the lies about it will stop also.

One step at a time.

[briefcase]

One of the things that helped me rebuild trust with my wife (and its a work in progress) was simply having clear boundaries about what I could and could not live with.

After living many years with my wife's paranoid accusactions about me, I was stunned to learn that she thought it was fine to secretly call, text and facebook message her former fiance who was very clear that he wanted to meet up with her for more than just coffee. 

I had no trust in her for about 2 years and we were on the brink (again).  I finally made up my mind that I couldn't live like that and resolved to leave if it continued.  I told her so, and I meant it.  And she knew I meant it. 

As far as I know, she chose to end contact with him.  We have spent the last several months slowly rebuilding trust, but it all started with knowing my own limits.   

[benny2]

Briefcase, I have told him clearly this time that if he wants to make it work, the lies and cheating I will not stand for. So I guess we will see, but I think he must have a much deeper problem than your wife because I don't think he can stop. That is wonderful that your wife respects your wishes. Sounds as if she is serious about making changes and thats good.

[arabella]

benny2 - I am struggling with a similar problem, I don't think my BPDh is able to stop either. We've discussed this previously, when he was feeling well, and he is fully aware of the problem and wants to stop but just... .  can't. It really upsets him. He lies about things that aren't even important, things he knows I won't even care about. And then he starts feeling guilty, so he lies more, then he gets angry at himself, then at me, then he's frustrated, etc. The only way out that I can see is therapy. Is there any chance your bf will agree to some sort of professional intervention?

[benny2]

I think he would agree to therapy as he agrees he has problems and says he wants to change however, his current insurance only allows him at certain facilities in which are 100 or more miles away. This is an issue for him as he hates to travel and never takes time off work.

[arabella]

Hey, getting him to agree is more than half the battle! Is there any possibility that the approved facility could arrange some telephone counselling? It would at least be a start... .  

Just thought to add - or perhaps call some of the approved places/therapists and see what they might be able to recommend? Perhaps they have ideas - this must have happened to others previously.

[daze]

I think accountability with phones, computers, facebook, etc. is important for rebuilding trust.  At least for me.

[briefcase]

Briefcase, I have told him clearly this time that if he wants to make it work, the lies and cheating I will not stand for. So I guess we will see, but I think he must have a much deeper problem than your wife because I don't think he can stop. That is wonderful that your wife respects your wishes. Sounds as if she is serious about making changes and thats good.

In the end, we can't control them.  It's hard enough to change ourselves, let alone them.  My wife engaged in this beahvior for two years.  She lied to me (blatantly) and hid what she was doing with great care.  I also thought she couldn't stop. 

The important question is what can you live with here?  And what are you willing to do to protect your boundaries if he can't (or won't) stop?   

[benny2]

Yes I am Briefcase, I believe I have given him enough chances and if things don't work this time, I am out for good. This has to end someday. I think I am slowly breaking down my feelings for him. The push/pull still affects me and puts me into the panic mode, but I know I am reaching the end of my rope. Tonight we were texting and I asked him if his plans for the summer included me. It took him along time to answer, so I texted him back and said you do not have to answer that. He then replied yes they do, and he said the message took a long time to send. It hurt because I knew he did not know how to answer my question and ended up saying what he knew I wanted to hear. I do know there are nice guys out there and I can have the kind of relationship I long for, but that will never happen until I put this to rest for good. I feel he is just keeping me around for a spare or until he decides what he wants. I don't think he will ever know what he wants.