I might tell her she has BPD, booyah

[goldylamont]

I was just curious, if a BPD has a psychotic break by being triggered (thinking that his partner was unfaithful) and in his state physically assaulted her but couldn't remember afterwards... .  would this be an indicator that he could lose it again? What does this indicate with regards to his BPD if he never had an occurrence like this in the past?

are you sure this never happened before in his past? the reason i say this is b/c i had a big shift in awareness after finding out about BPD but only after the r/s ended. i could see history through a different lens. for example, my exBPD told me that the ex she had before me cheated on her with a mutual friend of theirs... .  sounded really messy. and randomly a friend of theirs mentioned that he had thrown a chair through a window or something when they had broken up. i was just like, wow, she'll never have to worry about me acting that way. and then in our r/s whenever she acted super-jealous or with abandonment issues, i blamed this on the fact that her last r/s ended so terribly. i used to think it was this past r/s that was the issue--but now i see it wasn't. see, she told her friend that she was sure that I was cheating on her; having no evidence of this. i see the past in a different lens and i doubt at all her past bf cheated on her. and he prolly threw that chair because he couldn't deal with being treated so low having done nothing to deserve it. the issue in our r/s had nothing to do with recent events in her life and everything to do with a disorder she's had for decades. i think our r/s was just perhaps a small oasis of relief from her normal state of short term r/s with terrible breakups. all of this is to say, if your ex doesn't 'remember' assaulting you, how many other times do you think he's forgotten about? one thing i had to realize that everything that happened in my r/s with xBPDgf was that all the bad stuff that occurred was *normal* for her; and from what i can gather was not as bad with me as it was with other bf both before *and* after from the stories i hear of her behavior.

CryingWings you mentioned before about how you were strong many times amongst bad behavior from your ex; and i'm thinking sometimes this ability to keep it real with them while not completely exploding and losing it like many normal people would do in the same situation is what elongated and deepened the r/s. i get a sense that even though you probably did some nasty things in retaliation that your own inner strength meant that your reactions could have defused the situations so that now there is still some remnant there which makes him want to (selfishly) keep you as a friend. all of this is to say, and i'm not sure of your situation, but it may be safe to assume that whatever behavior you saw out of him was actually his *best* behavior. and that if he forgot assaulting you in that way that more than likely he's forgotten doing much worse both before and after your r/s. i can see this pattern in my ex. as bad as i got treated, i know others have gotten it worse... .

[Surrender]

Thanks Goldylamont for sharing that because I am having trouble seeing clearly since we have reconnected in communication. The thing that really affects me is that often he seems to 'see' things more clearly than the people all around me.

Apart from his rages, paranoia and unstable mood shifts he is one of the most rational people I know with an acute understanding of human nature. That is what really screws with my head because on the flip side of that is the extreme opposite.

I don't know how someone can have so much deep understanding into the world at large and people while simultaneously responding with scrutinizing paranoia for fear that I will do something to give him an indication that he can't trust me. That is not even to mention his many symptoms on a daily basis yet he has this profound depth, rationale and understanding that surpasses most people I know who are non's.

I see what you are saying however and know that clearly for someone to respond in such a psychotic manner than the likelihood of that undercurrent always being there is rather high in someone suffering this illness.

It is very difficult because he doesn't lie and never did. That is one of the most important things to him is never to lie. The difficult thing about that is that you get the other extreme which is 'the brutal truth' and that is on the other side of the pendulum which is in itself and can be a form of abuse. At least it feels like an attack when it happens.

We discussed more last night and he told me that he wanted to let us both go to give us a chance. He wanted to maintain a friendship but then admitted that would be impossible considering what he feels. It would either be all or nothing. I know this all must seem so strange considering my past with him but why then do I feel so safe with him and how he loves me even in light of what occurred?

Since the calls I have relapsed and am trying to find my way through again not knowing what that looks like for me at the moment, just trying to figure things out anew.

[goldylamont]

Apart from his rages, paranoia and unstable mood shifts he is one of the most rational people I know with an acute understanding of human nature.

i know, if they didn't have such a great other side, why would we deal with them in the first place, right? 

It is very difficult because he doesn't lie and never did. That is one of the most important things to him is never to lie.

i hope this isn't too harsh CW, but i just don't think this is true. i'm sure he portrays himself as mr. honest but honesty doesn't feel like what you've experienced. like i said before, honesty may bring pain or it may feel amazing, but honesty always leads to healing. hmm, but lies? Lies are just like honesty, both are dreams; lies may bring pain or they may feel amazing just like the truth; but lies always lead to pain. what you're feeling now probably feels really good, much better than the painful state of NC, but you will know if it's a lie or the truth by looking at where it is going. where is this leading you? if it's not a good place then it's a lie, he's a liar, and you are complying. even if you do, know you're awesome, stay safe, love yourself, do your best, learn, stay aware. and if you slip to repeat the past keep as much of yourself in tact this time, learn from what happened before, don't let it go so far this time.

i want to add though that as a woman dealing with someone who was physically abusive before, i am alarmed at this. i can only imagine it getting worse. i didn't have to worry about physical abuse so much from my xBPDgf, she made up for it with hersexisaweapon. but, CW i don't know what to say other than please be careful ok? please don't endanger yourself.

last but not least on lying CW, i'm willing to bet there are lots of 'little' lies being told by him all the time, but b/c BPD'ers know so masterfully how to do this you wouldn't even notice. when in the r/s with my exBPDgf, i never suspected her of lying. afterwards though, i started noticing itty bitty cracks in her image of honesty. i saw her lying to her mother... . "oh the new guy i'm seeing, we met while walking dogs... . ", they met at a bar. little lies. she used to keep in touch with this guy she used to date but who lived in Europe, she was so 'honest' during our r/s and told me that he would tell her that he was still in love with her blah blah, finally i asked her to put an end to it, and she did tell him to stop contacting her (she showed me emails). i felt good, praised her honesty. but, i now know that she was reaching out to him and initiating contact, leading him on, only to say 'stop contacting me' and showing this to me much later. little lies. they're very good at this. since seeing the little lies it's easier for me to understand that really, the whole big picture is just a big lie. if she lies to her mother, surely she lies to me and everyone else. as you build your awareness, you'll see through his cloud of 'honesty', promise. you're quick enough now to start catching a little one from him, and when you do you'll start seeing lots more, and then you're like "ooh, this is just the way you are all the time and with everyone! ooh. i get it now" . didn't start with you, won't end with you, it just is

The difficult thing about that is that you get the other extreme which is 'the brutal truth' and that is on the other side of the pendulum which is in itself and can be a form of abuse. At least it feels like an attack when it happens.

please trust yourself and accept this as truth. it felt like an attack because it was an attack. if you are allowing yourself to get closer to this person again it's vital to establish your own truths and your own boundaries. your anger is your friend, your protector, telling you to stop letting others break your boundaries. we have to honor this anger by finding constructive ways to allow it to establish and keep our boundaries in tact. don't doubt yourself ever when you feel attacked, because you are being attacked, ok? honor your anger or sadness by accepting the message they are desperately trying to give you "you are being hurt, you are in danger, i'm here to tell you to get away". just like pain tells us to take our hand away from a flame, and our hand obeys without thought. we have to re-learn to trust what our emotions are saying, and act accordingly.

He wanted to maintain a friendship but then admitted that would be impossible considering what he feels. It would either be all or nothing. I know this all must seem so strange considering my past with him but why then do I feel so safe with him and how he loves me even in light of what occurred?

because he is smart, and intelligent and manipulative. you feel safe now because he's figured out what you wanted and needed--how? well, b/c you told him that for you it would be impossible for you to maintain a friendship, that you would need all or nothing. so now, he's mirroring you. using exactly what you said, and whallah!, all the sudden he feels the exact same way. that's why you feel safe, b/c he appears to feel the same way you do. must feel like you guys are so connected, i can totally understand this... .  but i think you know this isn't true. he's mirroring the deep truths you told him, when you were being completely honest. he's not being honest, unless he's been talking a lot about taking responsibility for his behaviors, admitting he has a problem and has a list of things he's planning to do to make a change (and even then... .  ). his 'forgetting' about abusing you is the nugget of truth to hold onto. i'm sure he's saying a lot of things, but what is he truly doing?

we were talking before CW and had mentioned that it's important to look at a pwBPD's actions, not their words. what real life actions has this person taken that would support you feeling safe? his words aren't powerful b/c they aren't his words--they're your words (for now).

Since the calls I have relapsed and am trying to find my way through again not knowing what that looks like for me at the moment, just trying to figure things out anew.

i couldn't imagine being in your shoes CW, having the one person you wish so deeply to be true telling you everything you wish you could hear from them with integrity. i hope you know that the things in here i'm saying to you is not me being judgmental, i know very well that i could be in the same position and then would need your outside perspective. others here will have great advise on what to do, i just want to hopefully offer some understanding or perspective on what's going on and then you can do what you already knew was best, but what is so damn hard to carry out  :'(  just know that i recognize i don't know you, or him and that these are just my thoughts, and that i hope they help  and that i may need the same from you at some point!

[WillSurvive420]

The exact same things happened to me... .  my ex told me 2 out of her 3 bfs had cheated on her... .  I told her I would never do that, and she knew i was sincere... .  thats my downfall... .  im loyal to a fault... .  esp when i get attached. Now, I wonder if it was just her crazy imagination thinking they cheated on her and breaking up with them for that? WOW.

I was just curious, if a BPD has a psychotic break by being triggered (thinking that his partner was unfaithful) and in his state physically assaulted her but couldn't remember afterwards... .  would this be an indicator that he could lose it again? What does this indicate with regards to his BPD if he never had an occurrence like this in the past?

are you sure this never happened before in his past? the reason i say this is b/c i had a big shift in awareness after finding out about BPD but only after the r/s ended. i could see history through a different lens. for example, my exBPD told me that the ex she had before me cheated on her with a mutual friend of theirs... .  sounded really messy. and randomly a friend of theirs mentioned that he had thrown a chair through a window or something when they had broken up. i was just like, wow, she'll never have to worry about me acting that way. and then in our r/s whenever she acted super-jealous or with abandonment issues, i blamed this on the fact that her last r/s ended so terribly. i used to think it was this past r/s that was the issue--but now i see it wasn't. see, she told her friend that she was sure that I was cheating on her; having no evidence of this. i see the past in a different lens and i doubt at all her past bf cheated on her. and he prolly threw that chair because he couldn't deal with being treated so low having done nothing to deserve it. the issue in our r/s had nothing to do with recent events in her life and everything to do with a disorder she's had for decades. i think our r/s was just perhaps a small oasis of relief from her normal state of short term r/s with terrible breakups. all of this is to say, if your ex doesn't 'remember' assaulting you, how many other times do you think he's forgotten about? one thing i had to realize that everything that happened in my r/s with xBPDgf was that all the bad stuff that occurred was *normal* for her; and from what i can gather was not as bad with me as it was with other bf both before *and* after from the stories i hear of her behavior.

CryingWings you mentioned before about how you were strong many times amongst bad behavior from your ex; and i'm thinking sometimes this ability to keep it real with them while not completely exploding and losing it like many normal people would do in the same situation is what elongated and deepened the r/s. i get a sense that even though you probably did some nasty things in retaliation that your own inner strength meant that your reactions could have defused the situations so that now there is still some remnant there which makes him want to (selfishly) keep you as a friend. all of this is to say, and i'm not sure of your situation, but it may be safe to assume that whatever behavior you saw out of him was actually his *best* behavior. and that if he forgot assaulting you in that way that more than likely he's forgotten doing much worse both before and after your r/s. i can see this pattern in my ex. as bad as i got treated, i know others have gotten it worse... .

[Clearmind]

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