Tricky validation

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all,

I've been on a very bumpy road lately with my dBPDbf who's going through some difficult times in therapy. Yesterday, however, we managed to have a good conversation, we both cried and my bf showed a lot of insight. So with this open and loving spirit in mind, I asked him today how I could help him when I see that he gets overwhelmed with emotions/overtaken by his strong emotions, if there's any reaction in particular that could help him, and he said it helps him calm down when he feels that I understand him. BINGO   - the [url=https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation]validation[/b][/url] card!

But now to the tricky part: when he's dysregulated, I still have trouble validating in a way where he feels understood without validating something I see as wrong. I don't want to validate his bad opinion of me. But when I say things like "OK, you think I don't contribute enough" or "I understand, you feel that I don't care about XZY" he immediately throws out "it's not something I FEEL, it's the way it is!" or "it's not something I THINK, it's the THRUTH! This is the way you are!"

So I guess I feel a little stuck. Any good inputs on validating without validating something I really don't agree with? It's usually about me, how I'm not "up to par" somehow and statements I find truly wrong.

I have tried variations of validating the feelings behind the statement, sort of "I'm so sorry you feel lonely" or "that sure doesn't sound like a good way to feel", but somehow he reroutes everything to how I'm just not good enough.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi all,

I've been on a very bumpy road lately with my dBPDbf who's going through some difficult times in therapy. Yesterday, however, we managed to have a good conversation, we both cried and my bf showed a lot of insight. So with this open and loving spirit in mind, I asked him today how I could help him when I see that he gets overwhelmed with emotions/overtaken by his strong emotions, if there's any reaction in particular that could help him, and he said it helps him calm down when he feels that I understand him. BINGO   - the [url=https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation]validation[/b][/url] card!

But now to the tricky part: when he's dysregulated, I still have trouble validating in a way where he feels understood without validating something I see as wrong. I don't want to validate his bad opinion of me. But when I say things like "OK, you think I don't contribute enough" or "I understand, you feel that I don't care about XZY" he immediately throws out "it's not something I FEEL, it's the way it is!" or "it's not something I THINK, it's the THRUTH! This is the way you are!"

So I guess I feel a little stuck. Any good inputs on validating without validating something I really don't agree with? It's usually about me, how I'm not "up to par" somehow and statements I find truly wrong.

I have tried variations of validating the feelings behind the statement, sort of "I'm so sorry you feel lonely" or "that sure doesn't sound like a good way to feel", but somehow he reroutes everything to how I'm just not good enough.

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[lizzie458]

Good question.  I'd like to follow this post... .  

[coworkerfriend]

I have found that when my pwBPD is dysregulated, validation does not work.  He can't hear me clearly in any way and I have been working at detaching and walking away.

Validation works well for us when he is in an ok place - trying to work through something in his head.  Sometimes all he wants is for me to listen. 

Congrats on the good conversation - hopefully that can lead to better understanding between you. 

[bruceli]

First thing to come to mind, and I know this will sound wierd, but with guys, instead of using the word FEEL... .  replace it with THINK.  Was told this awhile ago by a T and low and behold, it tends to really work.  Guys kinda go on the defensive when they hear feel because it goes into a sensitive area for them... .  supposedly... .  

[briefcase]

But now to the tricky part: when he's dysregulated, I still have trouble validating in a way where he feels understood without validating something I see as wrong. I don't want to validate his bad opinion of me. But when I say things like "OK, you think I don't contribute enough" or "I understand, you feel that I don't care about XZY" he immediately throws out "it's not something I FEEL, it's the way it is!" or "it's not something I THINK, it's the THRUTH! This is the way you are!"

Well, once he's dysregulated its kind of pointless to try to validate.  Sometimes you can see it coming and head it off before the dysregulation is full blown.  But, once he's dysregulated its best to take time outs and just try to not make things worse by JADEing.  

Also, I've never had a lot of luck with the "I understand, you feel . . . ." format of validation, especially when the object of that sentence is something other than one of his emotions.  

Good:  I understand, you feel I don't care about XYZ.

Better: I understand, you feel angry right now.

Best: You sound angry.  Is there something you want to talk about?

[lizzie458]

I have found that when my pwBPD is dysregulated, validation does not work.

Good point!  Somehow it never occurred to me that there comes a point where validation does not work, but it makes complete sense.  That helps, knowing that the best thing I can probably do in those situations is take a time out.  I'd been trying to validate and stay calm - but that is really, REALLY difficult when your pwBPD has crossed that dysregulation threshold... .  classic codependent move right there - trying at all costs to defuse the situation when sometimes the best thing is to detach and give some space!

[byasliver]

Before I even knew about validation and BPD, my H would get so bent out of shape if I said, "You think... .  " but now seems bothered by the word "feel". I like what briefcase said and it has worked much better except I use the word "seem". We have to remember that they are super-sensitive (was reminded of this today by waverider) and although it may seem silly to us to get so hung up on a word, it's important to them.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Thank you all for your input 

And yes, validation and dysregulation doesn't really go together! I got a little caught up in the moment of honesty and openness, wanting to help. A little co-dependency coming back to bite me in the patootie

I still want to get a little validation in though, in the moment where I can feel him switching but before he gets out of control.

Good inputs on the words think and feel! I think (!) a combination of what you said, briefcase, and others might be a good sentence: "You seem angry. Is there something you want to talk about?" The problem here is that what he wants to talk about is usually that's he's hopping mad at me for something I did or didn't do. That's where I exit stage left, I guess. It's hard to see him struggle, thought, especially now that he's starting to get a little grip on things and being so sad when he's not able to stop himself!

I also saw my therapist today. So I told her about our conversation yesterday, and she suggested that since he's starting to have some real insight into his BPD, I could actually ask him something like "You seem angry. How can I help? If you don't know, that's fine, and I'm not mad at you." Which puts the responsibility more on him. And then if he's not able to say, then "OK. I love you and I'll go out for a bit until things calm down". So basically a mix of validation and detachment with love. I'll try!