Observations

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Having discussed my childhood relationships with my T, he came to the conclusion that my mother displays a lot of BPD traits in common with my exBPDw. Obviously he couldn't diagnose my mother, having never met her. This was also based on conversations too when my exBPDw was a client of his. It was something I acknowledged to a certain extent but didn't know how accurate he was until this week.

I was fortunate growing up in that I had a very turbulent relationship with my mother. Nothing was ever good enough and my early years were spent trying to please her and then after my parents divorce, I became caretaker for my younger sister. I wasn't affected as much as I could have been because my mother was never really a mother to me and I detached from her from a young age too. My grandmother was the big influence in my life and when I think of mothers, I think of my grandmother. My uncle died at 17 and that was a huge loss to my grandmother, one that always left a huge hole in her heart. My relationship with my grandmother was one where we leaned on each other. She was the mother I didn't have and I was the son that she wanted to see grow up. As a result, I avoided many of my mothers traits. I lost my grandmother in 2004.

Because there was never a very close bond there with my mother, I was always able to step away and keep my boundaries with her. In time, we developed a relationship that works for us, as in a closer relationship where I could offer support, but not too close to be drawn in. That was until last week when my other grandmother (my mothers mother) came up for a visit. I went to stay at my mothers so I could spend time with the family. The little things started to surface and being more aware of my exBPDw, I was able to see these things in my own mother now.

For example, clearing everything away after a meal. I put all the dishes in the dishwasher but forgot a knife on the side. The drama unfolded around the knife being left as though I'd just walked in to the house and smashed everything up. Instead of reacting, I said nothing and just washed the knife in the sink. You would think that was the end of it but 4 nights in a row I was told to make sure I packed the dishwasher correctly because of the forgotten knife. It brought back memories of my childhood and the reasons I moved out as soon as I could.

By the end of the week, the attention had turned to my grandmother and she was painted pretty black. Expecting a 92 year old woman who has never used a computer in her life to suddenly know everything about skype infuriated my mother. My sister had connected to speak to her and caught my mother yelling at my grandmother. It led to some harsh words and I walked in to my mother stamping through the house, having a tantrum and slamming doors. My grandmother is deaf so my mother uses this to be abusive and cruel by calling her names knowing that she couldn't hear her. I had words about that one which led to another tantrum.

The final nail had to be when I walked in to my mother yelling and walking out. I went out to find out what was going on and it turned out, my grandmother had asked if she could go buy a few things before she went home. She asked if my mother could take her and my mother agreed. The anger apparently was because she took her and was being projected on my grandmother. I explained to my mother that if she didn't want to go, she could have said no but there is no need for the outburst because she is at fault for agreeing in the first place. She was also angry that she had to repeat herself several times because of my grandmother being deaf. I was told just how much I'm like my sister and then the guilt trip about how she failed as a mother raising us.

In all honesty, this past week has been just like living with my exBPDw and I still have another week of it. I grew up with this behaviour so I'm accustomed to it and I'm able to detach more readily with my mother than I was with my ex. What I can't understand though is seeing those identical patterns, why I'm able to not let my mother affect me and use the right communication tools but failed miserably when trying the same things with my exBPDw? The other question, going the opposite way is why I was able to see these patterns in my exBPDw early on but although subconsciously they were there with my mother, I wasn't able to see them fully until working through them with the T.

[Murbay]

Having discussed my childhood relationships with my T, he came to the conclusion that my mother displays a lot of BPD traits in common with my exBPDw. Obviously he couldn't diagnose my mother, having never met her. This was also based on conversations too when my exBPDw was a client of his. It was something I acknowledged to a certain extent but didn't know how accurate he was until this week.

I was fortunate growing up in that I had a very turbulent relationship with my mother. Nothing was ever good enough and my early years were spent trying to please her and then after my parents divorce, I became caretaker for my younger sister. I wasn't affected as much as I could have been because my mother was never really a mother to me and I detached from her from a young age too. My grandmother was the big influence in my life and when I think of mothers, I think of my grandmother. My uncle died at 17 and that was a huge loss to my grandmother, one that always left a huge hole in her heart. My relationship with my grandmother was one where we leaned on each other. She was the mother I didn't have and I was the son that she wanted to see grow up. As a result, I avoided many of my mothers traits. I lost my grandmother in 2004.

Because there was never a very close bond there with my mother, I was always able to step away and keep my boundaries with her. In time, we developed a relationship that works for us, as in a closer relationship where I could offer support, but not too close to be drawn in. That was until last week when my other grandmother (my mothers mother) came up for a visit. I went to stay at my mothers so I could spend time with the family. The little things started to surface and being more aware of my exBPDw, I was able to see these things in my own mother now.

For example, clearing everything away after a meal. I put all the dishes in the dishwasher but forgot a knife on the side. The drama unfolded around the knife being left as though I'd just walked in to the house and smashed everything up. Instead of reacting, I said nothing and just washed the knife in the sink. You would think that was the end of it but 4 nights in a row I was told to make sure I packed the dishwasher correctly because of the forgotten knife. It brought back memories of my childhood and the reasons I moved out as soon as I could.

By the end of the week, the attention had turned to my grandmother and she was painted pretty black. Expecting a 92 year old woman who has never used a computer in her life to suddenly know everything about skype infuriated my mother. My sister had connected to speak to her and caught my mother yelling at my grandmother. It led to some harsh words and I walked in to my mother stamping through the house, having a tantrum and slamming doors. My grandmother is deaf so my mother uses this to be abusive and cruel by calling her names knowing that she couldn't hear her. I had words about that one which led to another tantrum.

The final nail had to be when I walked in to my mother yelling and walking out. I went out to find out what was going on and it turned out, my grandmother had asked if she could go buy a few things before she went home. She asked if my mother could take her and my mother agreed. The anger apparently was because she took her and was being projected on my grandmother. I explained to my mother that if she didn't want to go, she could have said no but there is no need for the outburst because she is at fault for agreeing in the first place. She was also angry that she had to repeat herself several times because of my grandmother being deaf. I was told just how much I'm like my sister and then the guilt trip about how she failed as a mother raising us.

In all honesty, this past week has been just like living with my exBPDw and I still have another week of it. I grew up with this behaviour so I'm accustomed to it and I'm able to detach more readily with my mother than I was with my ex. What I can't understand though is seeing those identical patterns, why I'm able to not let my mother affect me and use the right communication tools but failed miserably when trying the same things with my exBPDw? The other question, going the opposite way is why I was able to see these patterns in my exBPDw early on but although subconsciously they were there with my mother, I wasn't able to see them fully until working through them with the T.

[Suzn]

Murbay it sounds as though you may be at step 2 of the Survivors guide, would that be accurate? To the right of your screen. --->

I lost my grandmother in 2004.

I'm very sorry for your loss. 

Because there was never a very close bond there with my mother, I was always able to step away and keep my boundaries with her.

What are your feelings today about not having this bond? It is very difficult for a child to process this loss.

What I can't understand though is seeing those identical patterns, why I'm able to not let my mother affect me and use the right communication tools but failed miserably when trying the same things with my exBPDw? The other question, going the opposite way is why I was able to see these patterns in my exBPDw early on but although subconsciously they were there with my mother, I wasn't able to see them fully until working through them with the T.

Is it possible that you were in survivor mode with your mother while growing up? That you weren't getting your needs met as a child so you became more accustomed to what works with her? Your ex is a different person, with different triggers. Adding in here, she (your ex) may have been more keen to your body language, being that you were in an intimate r/s. I have quoted sometimes as high as 95% of communication is body language, just a thought. Not being able to see the patterns in our parents right away is common, once we start learning more about recovery and unhealthy behaviors there is a period of time we become (hyper) sensitive to others behaviors and begin to see these patterns in our family members, that usually extends to friends, coworkers, etc... . too.

[GeekyGirl]

Hi Murbay,

You asked some good questions, and I think it's worth exploring the effects your mother had on you growing up and how they're affecting you now with your exBPDw. 

It sounds like from an early age that you developed some strong coping strategies, which is great. I'm sorry that you've lost your grandmother--my story isn't all that different from yours and I know it's tough to lose a loving, mother-like figure. It's wonderful that you had that loving force in your life, though, and it's clear that your grandmother was a big source of comfort and affection for you.

Do you see a lot of your mother's traits in your exBPDw?

It's hard to see our parents as flawed; they're our biggest influences as children and it's tough to admit it when your parent has an illness or personality disorder. Do you think you didn't want to see your mother as disordered? Sometimes it's hard to come to terms with the fact that a parent has BPD.

Hang in there, and please feel free to jump into our conversations here. 

-GG

[Murbay]

Hi suzn,

As far as being at step 2, I honestly can't say. In part I am but then I have also been through many of the other steps growing up. As GeekyGirl quite rightly says, I developed a lot of coping strategies on my own and I wasn't as "trapped" as many others are because I have good friends and I had my grandmother. I think for me, it is more the concrete acknowledgement right now. I saw the red flags in my relationship with my exBPDw but stayed through it and now I believe part of that was because because of my relationship with my mother. She will always be my mother and I do love her, but growing up, I saw the red flags and chose not to put up the boundaries because it was my mother. Certain ones I did and when things got too abusive or nasty, I stepped away.

My grandmother was amazing in the sense that if I did something wrong, she would tell me, we would talk it through, would both apologise (whoever was in the wrong) and then move on. My mother would (and still does) hold things against me from when I was little. If I try and talk to her about it, I get the tears and the guilt trip, telling me she did the best she could as a parent and I fell for it every time. I was very self aware of what was going on and through my grandmother was able to develop coping strategies to tolerate what was going on because I always had an outlet in that sense.

It's only now, talking through things with my T and recognising how much of myself I gave away during my relationship with my exBPDw that I see some very wrong things from my own childhood. I have been cleared of any PD's but they did find I leaned more towards Avoidant and that makes a lot of sense. I'm able to see things a lot clearer with my relationship with my mother. For example, in the past when I have had some good news to share, it usually gets put down. Last week I got another promotion at work and when I told my mother, her response was "Good, now maybe you can give me money for the week you stayed here 2 years ago". Same when I joined the army and was so proud of getting through selection, the response then was "You won't even get through basic training". I learned a long time ago not to take it to heart and tune out to those comments but they do still hurt coming from your own mother. What I now understand is that has nothing to do with being a parent so the tears and guilt trip no longer work. It has everything to do with being a human being and being supportive of someone.

It's those kind of things I did see in my exBPDw and I can say it hurt more coming from her than it did my own mother. In answer to your question suzn about childhood loss, I don't think that bond was ever there between us for me to lose so I never saw it as an issue. I was always happier being outside of the house and away from all of that. I guess the relationship we had was that my mother needed me (in terms of taking on the other parent role in the house) but I didn't need her. My bond was always with my grandmother and she was the constant influence throughout my life.

I do believe I was in survivor mode growing up and that's something I recognised early on too. My needs were met though but not by my mother, I took care of my own needs and those I couldn't do on my own my grandmother was right beside me. That's something I believe I was at fault for in my relationship with my exBPDw because I was accustomed to dealing with my own issues and taking care of my own needs that she felt (and often said) that I didn't need her and that triggered her abandonment issues. It's funny you talk about body language, because that was another issue I see in myself. When my ex had a crisis, I was the calm and reassuring one but perhaps a little too calm. I put that down to being conditioned to the things I saw in the army and being able to keep calm under pressure.

I don't get angry or have a meltdown but from my exBPDw's perspective, when she was freaking out she also expected me to as well. Part of me now feels it came long before the military because I know I was the same when my mother behaved that way. If she was freaking out, yelling and screaming, I would take myself to my room or leave the house. At least with my ex, I tried to calm her down and reassure her but it would make matters worse because she would tell me I didn't understand the severity of the situation otherwise I wouldn't be so calm. When she was calm, she would eventually thank me for keeping her grounded which I never knew if that was a good thing or a bad thing.

As GeekyGirl says, there were a lot of traits they both shared but my reaction to each was different. My mother I step back from but my ex I stepped forward to and perhaps that's where I got things wrong too.

In terms of being avoidant, I don't hit enough of the criteria for it to be a PD and I know which areas I struggle in. I'm getting out and meeting new people the shyness and anxiety. Self esteem, I have stopped listening to people like my ex and my mother and listen to my work colleagues as well as my friends. I have definitely been working on using the word "NO" a lot more too  and working on keeping my boundaries up even when it's tempting just to let someone trample through them.

[GeekyGirl]

In terms of being avoidant, I don't hit enough of the criteria for it to be a PD and I know which areas I struggle in. I'm getting out and meeting new people the shyness and anxiety. Self esteem, I have stopped listening to people like my ex and my mother and listen to my work colleagues as well as my friends. I have definitely been working on using the word "NO" a lot more too  and working on keeping my boundaries up even when it's tempting just to let someone trample through them.

Many of us who grew up with BPD parents have inherited traits (we call 'em "fleas"  here). It's pretty hard to NOT pick up BPD traits when we were exposed to them constantly as children. That's very common. The good thing is, as adults we're aware of them, and as you've done, we can work on them. You've already done some good things for yourself. Boundaries are healthy. Good self-esteem will help you in immeasurable ways.

Your grandmother sounds like she was an amazing person, and it's so good that she was around and available for you.   She must have been a big influence on you, and you're the person you are today because of that.

Keep up the good work. You're definitely a survivor.

[Murbay]

Ty GeekyGirl 

Back in my teens, I watched a documentary with my grandmother about Everest. During that documentary I said to my grandmother that one day I would climb Everest and her reply to that was "I have no doubt that you will" it was just something so simple. Filled with pride and a new ambition, I told my mother and her response was ":)on't be so ridiculous"

I have accomplished many things that people told me I couldn't do but that one has always escaped me.

However, training is underway because I'm part of a team climbing Everest in June 2016. I shall be leaving a picture of my grandmother on the summit to remind me that although she is no longer here, she was the inspiration and she will be climbing with me.

[GeekyGirl]

training is underway because I'm part of a team climbing Everest in June 2016. I shall be leaving a picture of my grandmother on the summit to remind me that although she is no longer here, she was the inspiration and she will be climbing with me.

Awesome, Murbay. Best of luck to you in your training, and I LOVE the tribute you're planning to your grandmother. That's beautiful. 

[Asa]

Murbay!

I'm so proud of you! This is indeed exciting news!

You are an inspiration, in more ways than this. I've been reading this thread, but now felt compelled to remark.

Truly very happy to hear this.