How do they define love?

[Clearmind]

It's "What is love to us?" that is the question I am asking myself!

What is the difference between love, and codependency?

What do you think the difference is undone?

[oolia]

Great question!  I've been struggling with this one, too.  It's tough to look back on my relationship and realize I wasn't really loved in the way I understand it.

I certainly came to realize that I didn't feel loved by my BPD, although he frequently said he loved me.

For him, love meant that I would agree with him, do things the way he thought I should, cater to his whims, make him feel "heard" and "respected" (impossible, it turned out), give him lots of attention on his schedule.

He gave nothing without an expectation of something in return. There were always, always strings.  Even saying "I love you" meant that he wanted me to say it to him right then.

[Undone123]

I haven't a clue clear mind... .

I have had police threats, been falsely accused in a smear campaign that I am physically abusive... . I have had my family contacted (I returned that one though after hearing the physical abuse rubbish), I have been discarded, left with no closure, some possessions sold on eBay, I have have been kicked out of the house a number of times, and am not there still. I have been ignored, and treated like I don't exist. I have been insulted and devalued. I have been stonewalled repeatedly where she insults me and refuses to let me speak. I am pretty sure she's been going elsewhere for her love... . I have been driven to therapy, to question my own sanity, and worst of all I have lost myself. I don't even remember the person I was before her... . But I still think I love her?

I question the love vs codependency a lot. If I love her I shouldn't give up on her, but then it is self destructive to continue?

Is that the difference? The destruction? Love isn't destructive. Codependency is. But then I didn't know about this when I got with her, fell in love with that person so shouldn't allow some disorder change that... .

I don't know what it is? Tell me

[Clearmind]

I haven't a clue clear mind... .

I have had police threats, been falsely accused in a smear campaign that I am physically abusive... . I have had my family contacted (I returned that one though after hearing the physical abuse rubbish), I have been discarded, left with no closure, some possessions sold on eBay, I have have been kicked out of the house a number of times, and am not there still. I have been ignored, and treated like I don't exist. I have been insulted and devalued. I have been stonewalled repeatedly where she insults me and refuses to let me speak. I am pretty sure she's been going elsewhere for her love... . I have been driven to therapy, to question my own sanity, and worst of all I have lost myself. I don't even remember the person I was before her... . But I still think I love her?

I question the love vs codependency a lot. If I love her I shouldn't give up on her, but then it is self destructive to continue?

Is that the difference? The destruction? Love isn't destructive. Codependency is. But then I didn't know about this when I got with her, fell in love with that person so shouldn't allow some disorder change that... .

I don't know what it is? Tell me

Codependency can be destructive because its a union based more on need to not be alone, difficulty setting boundaries (relationships tend to be boundary-less), please others before looking after yourself, low self esteem, reactive towards a partner, avoid closeness, control our own feelings, usually difficulty in seeing that a relationship is unhealthy, care taking, control (attempt to change your partner).

Love is the complete opposite.

Not all of us are co-dependent and in the end its just a label. Undone, there is something in us that loved being idealized, there was something in us that believed we should stay despite the abuse, we ignored the abuse and why we equate the intensity we felt with love. Why? Dig deep to your past Undone - the answers lie back there and not with your ex. We all learn our relationship skills from our parents.

[Undone123]

I haven't a clue clear mind... .

I have had police threats, been falsely accused in a smear campaign that I am physically abusive... . I have had my family contacted (I returned that one though after hearing the physical abuse rubbish), I have been discarded, left with no closure, some possessions sold on eBay, I have have been kicked out of the house a number of times, and am not there still. I have been ignored, and treated like I don't exist. I have been insulted and devalued. I have been stonewalled repeatedly where she insults me and refuses to let me speak. I am pretty sure she's been going elsewhere for her love... . I have been driven to therapy, to question my own sanity, and worst of all I have lost myself. I don't even remember the person I was before her... . But I still think I love her?

I question the love vs codependency a lot. If I love her I shouldn't give up on her, but then it is self destructive to continue?

Is that the difference? The destruction? Love isn't destructive. Codependency is. But then I didn't know about this when I got with her, fell in love with that person so shouldn't allow some disorder change that... .

I don't know what it is? Tell me

Codependency can be destructive because its a union based more on need to not be alone, difficulty setting boundaries (relationships tend to be boundary-less), please others before looking after yourself, low self esteem, reactive towards a partner, avoid closeness, control our own feelings, usually difficulty in seeing that a relationship is unhealthy, care taking, control (attempt to change your partner).

Love is the complete opposite.

Not all of us are co-dependent and in the end its just a label. Undone, there is something in us that loved being idealized, there was something in us that believed we should stay despite the abuse, we ignored the abuse and why we equate the intensity we felt with love. Why? Dig deep to your past Undone - the answers lie back there and not with your ex. We all learn our relationship skills from our parents.

See I don't even know if I'm codependent or just a victim of some really good crazy making... . To be fair my life is a lot better without her. I have self diagnosed! I would have thought codependency would mean there would be a lot of destruction once the addict hasn't got access anymore to the addiction... .

It's all very complicated I suppose and interesting in a strange way. Maybe there is perhaps a side to all of us that is codependent as none of us have just moved on, we are all on here looking for support and answers.

I'm doing the internal reflection a lot! I suppose that's why we are the lucky ones. For them their cycle continues, for us although it is hard and hurts, we can actually learn and have healthy relationships one day

[clover528]

Love is toxic enmeshment... . Interdependence doesn't come into it. You can't have your own friends, space, time, etc. They want the same air you breath. They want you 24 7 and anything less is not good enough. They want to be involved in every aspect of your life, otherwise they stop feeling close to you. But you must comply or else you don't love them.Love is making you suffer for setting a healthy boundary, but then making you suffer more for not upholding it.

It is need.

It is not love. It is enmeshment. To them, they don't want you to succeed, they do not want you to enjoy life,unless they are there with you, you are there for them... . They want every aspect. Family, work, friends, hobbies, everything.

This hit the nail on the head with my uBPDexbf!  Of course this is hindsight, but I can totally relate to this with regard to my r/s with him.

[Clearmind]

Undone, none of us are victims - we chose this situation and chose to stay in it for whatever reason. Everyone needs to find their reason. Victims assume no responsibility and we are somewhat responsible for our part - this an adult privilege.

Labels aside, a Lack of boundaries is one aspect we may need to work on ad possibly our own abandonment issues coupled with some lack of self worth - this comes from somewhere. We are all a product of our past - the answers lie back there not with the current situation we fin ourselves in.

[Undone123]

Undone, none of us are victims - we chose this situation and chose to stay in it for whatever reason. Everyone needs to find their reason. Victims assume no responsibility and we are somewhat responsible for our part - this an adult privilege.

Labels aside, a Lack of boundaries is one aspect we may need to work on ad possibly our own abandonment issues coupled with some lack of self worth - this comes from somewhere. We are all a product of our past - the answers lie back there not with the current situation we fin ourselves in.

Clear mind, I really enjoy your advice. I think in some instances we are victims. In the case of being with an undiagnosed you expect a functional relationship. It's once the damage has been done, and you reflect and understand that we are no longer victims. I think at the time, I was a victim. I expected a functional relationship with a functional person, however I was ignorant and inexperienced... . I think once the ignorance is gone then the choice is ours... . If i had gotten into a relationship knowingly with someone who had a disorder, and was abusive, then I would agree we would not be victims. However, if you are expecting a functional relationship and it turns out to be emotionally abusive, then to say we aren't victims is to blame us for the abuse. We are not to blame for abuse. We are not to blame for expecting a functional relationship, our crime at this point is ignorance. I was completely ignorant ... . But granted once we see the light, we choose our path... .

[Clearmind]

Hi Undone! You are right we do need to choose our own path. And yes while we were in the r/s we did feel victimized. I guess my point is - not everyone attaches to a Borderline - those that are subject to self victimization - after all our pwBPD did not do this for us - tend to be the ones that have more healing to do.

The beginnings of any relationship are just that 'the beginnings' - we dont know the person, we should not claim to know the person - instead we seek, ask questions and watch for actions. With my BPD r/s - I jumped in head and feet first without a thought in the world accept 'Oh Boy this feels amazing' - I equated the intensity for love - then wondered why 3 months down the track it started to feel wrong.

Feeling victimised 'should' be a cue to leave because we have way too much worth to believe we deserve it and stick around. To then stick around has a lot to do with worthiness, work on redefining what love actually is, what we want and seek in a potential mate, what questions, answers can we seek from a mate before jumping into bed/moving in, realize that intensity and control is not love... . and... . find our reason for seeking out a Borderline. This is what is meant to thrive.

If we don't find our reason we could very well choose another toxic relationship.

[danley]

I don't think my ex truly knows what is love and how to give and receive it. Somewhere in his life he has grown a view of love that is one sided even tho he knows it shouldn't be. When I asked if when was the first time he was in love. He said with me but right now i dont truly beloeve it because im in defensive mode. He said he never felt so comfortable and he felt he could always be himself with me. He felt like doing things and being a better person. He felt motivated and loved my spirit. I was flattered but told him that he was doing those things all on his own really... . and that the sky's the limit when your heart is in the right place.

I figured he might answer that it was when he met his wife of 15 years. But he said that wasn't love. He said it was a selfish relationship where he felt trapped and manipulated when he tried to give his all and didn't receive anything in return. He felt they both existed and he didn't feel wanted. He didn't think they were in love and it made me wonder why he stayed. He said it was because he didn't want to be alone and he didn't want people to think he was a failure. He also said that his wife made him feel like he couldn't do anything right. I felt bad for him and his experience and told him it wasn't a healthy example. He has shown he has carried habits learned from his marriage into his thinking. His view of love is warped. He thinks that of someone is being nice that they are out to get him. He thinks that if someone is supportive that they want something in return. He cannot handle too much love because it makes him feel like he has to give more than he can. He begins to feel guilty. All around his view of love is distorted. His wife and his dynamic was basically a finger pointing and being right and never resolving relationship. Lots of put downs to be the one on top. He used to act this way with me when he was angry. It was the worst unproductive means of communication and relation. I used to tell him that he was treating me like when he was with his wife. He didn't like when I said that but it was true. He'd usually apologize and say that It's what he's used to doing.

While together I tried to be an example of love and light. It was productive for majority of the relationship but he couldn't manage being in love and being stressed about his life at the same time. So pretty much his definition of love was... . "when It's right for me".

[Deleted]

Danley,

My BPDex had an alcoholic father and a mother who I strongly believe has BPD or NPD. She told me she viewed love as this chaotic drama. She even went as far as saying "when I realize that you're all I think about, and I love spending time with you I said "oh f**k I'm in love ugh   "

Didn't think much if it until now.