I've had an epiphany

[VeryFree]

Looking at your last post: try to be really honest with yourself when you answer the following question:

Has you wanting her back anything to do with you thinking that she has someone else?

Is it really about her or is it about you?

[Eric1]

Looking at your last post: try to be really honest with yourself when you answer the following question:

Has you wanting her back anything to do with you thinking that she has someone else?

Is it really about her or is it about you?

I'm being as honest as possible here. It's about her.

I miss her, still love her & want to be with her.

Things would have to change on both sides, but it's irrelevant as we are never getting back.

Contacting her won't help, but it's hard not to.

[VeryFree]

It's all quite fresh. You're without her for about a month. 

Have you read the lessons about detaching and grieving?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331263#msg1331263

[Eric1]

It will be 6 weeks Sunday. 5 days no contact today.

I want her in my life. I want to be with her. I don't think I'll love anyone as much as I loved her.

I can't see it going away. I know I must not contact her. I would give my left arm to be with her again. Unfortunately till I can get that out of my head, I'm doomed. Doomed I tell you.

[VeryFree]

Try not being so hard on yourself.

The first few months after breaking up are the hardest. I know it's not really a comfort right now, but trust me: things will get better.

After breaking up, I was totally upset. Didn't know why she did those things to me.

The months after the break I tried to win her back. She didn't bite, but made me more miserable.

After that I started looking back at what happened in the r/s: it was bad... . very bad. And yet I staid in it for ten years. And yet I wanted her back. Did I really believe thing would get better.

At that point I started looking at myself. Why did I stay? Why did I want a woman back that has made my life miserable for so many years? Why did I try contacting a woman, that tried to ruin me?

I went to see a T and it helped a lot.

I now know my own role in the past r/s. I know why I accepted her bad behaviour and I know why I wanted her back. Because of that lessons I also know I don't really wanted her back. It was just an empty gap in me, that had to be filled.

Of course I don't want an abusive wife!

I'm out of the r/s more than 7 months now. I'm looking back at it knowing we had good times, but also knowing there were lots of bad times. Partly because of her illness, partly because of my own issues.

But neither her illness, nor my issues are an excuse for her abusive behaviour. I know she probably never will get better, I know I was living a dream, I know I'm back in reality. Good future here I come... .

Hang in there.

[goldylamont]

... . I'm honestly thinking that being in LC is best because it allows me to see how she really is and helps me take her off the pedestal.

ok, she's seeing another guy and doing her thing. just do yours. be different from the slew of guys she went through before meeting special you. i say 'special you' b/c you had the longest r/s so far with this person there's something special in that. the more independent and strong you appear to her the more likely she'll find some way back into your life. the more you sell yourself short and tell her you still love her the more she'll use you to boost her own ego while she plays games with new men.

what you said above is very insightful Eric1. don't show her love without her showing it to you first. be just as detached and un-clingy as she is. and when and if she does come back around, know that she's faking this 'love' for you b/c truly there's no way she could love you b/c she doesn't even respect herself.

you're correct, if you manage to stay in contact with her, eventually you're going to see how nasty she truly is as a person and this can solidify your boundaries to let her go. everyone here will agree that if you just do hardcore NC that this could be best, but, sounds to me like you still need to see/do things to convince yourself what you already know. Alls i'm saying is, do it with cojones my friend so that when you do find out, by seeing her again or   recycling, you've done it without losing dignity with yourself. ya know? try your best not to do the whole "take me back baby!" texting and whatnot, they loove this kind of attention you'd be making the whole thing too fun for her. imagine her laughing at these love messages from you with her girlfriend or the next guy she's with (i witnessed my ex doing this with her ex after me. poor fella). try not to be that guy!

[Eric1]

Thanks, goldylamont. The reply really hit home. I don't wan't to appear needy or desperate because i do eventually want to be with her again, but if i don't prove myself to be of high value and am able to be independant, then it would never work anyway.

About the LC, do you think it's a good idea? Even if i just send the Odd "Hey, How you doing" etc etc?

[Clearmind]

Eric, it pains me to read your messages because from the outside looking in it appears you feel like its you that needs to change to make it work.  You are holding yourself 100% accountable for it working!

Can you do yourself a favor and go back and read your introductory post you made on the board and answer one quick question? Why do you feel you deserve the abuse? And why do you want to walk right back into it?

Do you feel it would be less painful going back than how you feel right now?

[Eric1]

Because there were things that i could of done differently. At times, i got angry, yes it was in response, but i knew she had a temper & i should of done more to resolve that. For example - There was times when i turned up late to her house, which i knew would cause problems, but i was too involved in working on my house.

There was a time when she came round my house, i had to clear some rubbish from the back garden to take to the tip the next morning. She said "I havenn't just come round to sit by myself" I told her i would be quick as possible, so she went and sat down in the living room. Then i said to her maybe she could start cooking tea whilst im clearing the rubbish, she said no, which started to get me angry. I cleared the rubbish, then went back in and told her that i can be expected to do everything and she's just being lazy, obviously argueing ensued.

I think at times i was the cause of her rages. I need to have better conflict resoloution.

I don't deserve the abuse, i don't warrant the abuse, but if we spoke about it, and could realise what was happening, things could change. We won't get back together, so its all irrelivent.

[Clearmind]

You are asking her to be something she is not... . healthy.

OK, if you were to reach out to her what you would do and say? And how would you go about it?

[Eric1]

She tried to call me on the night of my birthday, but i missed the call. She rang me the following morning and we spoke for a good half hour. She appologised because i said we can't have contact, but she really wanted to talk to me.

What she said in the convo, and she has said it before & i qoute "You're the only person that doesn't judge me"

She is so insecure, she always worries about what people think of her, how they act around her etc She still hates her job, which as always been an on going problem. She is a physio, and every other day she wants to do a different job, or try something new. She seems a little lost.

I care about her so much. I know it's not my job to try and 'rescue her' or change her etc. I just now know who she is, truely.

She still has issues with her parents divorce aswell. She has a very limited relationship with her dad & at times said she hates him. Her dad used to get very angry with her mother and they used to have blazing rows when she was in her teens. She said she used to try and protect her younger brother from it all & i think she takes on the burden of it all, so her brother doesn't know the true story behind it all. I've told her this before & she said i'm the only person who's made her realise this.

She has issues, yes. But, i love her still.

I don't know what i would say or do to reach out to her. I don't know if i will.

[mitchell16]

Eric1, Im in the smae position as you right. Now. Im on about 4 days o NC. Mine tried to coantact me all weekend and i didnt respond. Now its been silence. I to have craving to contact her but I have to ask myself WHY. Ive been on this merry go round for well over 2 years almost 3. At it been the same everytime. I would never do the contacting but just as soon as she did, I was there to answer. She would throw a " im missing you" or " I love you" and that would erase all the bad things she said or did. She would promise that she saw the light and it would be better and it all happened (her melt down) cause of work or some tragedy in the world.

But I cant say for sure but I will bet if you contact her, she will inflict more hurt. It gives them power and I have found they love the power. I contacted mine one time on one of our break ups. She always said I never chased her that she did all the chasing. Which she was right, she in my opinon, caused the problems and always did the breaking up. It wasnt my responsiblity to get her back. But I tried once and she was rude, cold and uncaring and told me she didnt want me back. It hurt. But then a few weeks later her she came around again. So I think she loved the power she got rejecting me. before I knew anything about BPD I told her I felt like she makes me pay for every wrong thing ever done to her. I was like her personal punching bag. which is ironic when we first starting dating the song by pink " please dont leave me" was popular. I used to tell her that song reminded me of her and our relationship at that point I had never heard of BPD but that song really struck something with me. Now I know what it was, was like watching clips from my life with her. One minute fawning over me ( idolizing) next trying to inflict as much pain as she could ( devauling)

If you can resist not calling her You will be so much better off, I know its easier said then done. Its tough but hang in there. In my opinon life can only get better after time.

[Eric1]

I'm gonna stay strong and not contact. We were supposed to go away next week, she still has the week off, so don't know what she's gonna do. Deep down she knows how I feel, it's just at times I don't want to give up hope.

Clearmind, did you see my post about the phoncall and had parents? Make anything of that?

[willtimeheal]

Eric1,

There is nothing more I want more in this world than to hear from my ex BPD and get back together with her.  We have been broken up for 4 and a half months.  I haven't heard from her in 11 days.  This is the longest she has gone without contacting me.  It hurts terribly and I know she is with someone else... . she left me because she thought I was going to leave her (which I wasn't) and hooked up with an old friend from high school and within two weeks he moved back to town and was living with her.  She contacts me and tells me she does not love him and that she wants to be with me and she loves me.  I truly love her more than anything but I also love myself and I know that contacting her would cause me more harm than good.  My girl sounds a lot like yours... . we shared everything together.  Her upbringing was abusive and tough and the burden of her family problems falls on her.  problem in our relationship was she too all that anger and frustration out on me.  She verbally and emotionally abused me.  I took it because I didn't want to be another person that walked away from her and I love her.  But then she just up and left me when I needed her the most.  Do I pray everyday that she contacts me... . yes I do.  But I will not be the one who breaks NC.  I will not give her that power.  I think about her all the time.  I wonder if she is thinking about me and missing me.  She used to tell me I was the best thing that ever happened to her... . well if I was the best thing that happened to her then was was it so easy for her to walk away and move on with someone else?  You have to protect yourself right now and take care of yourself. 

[dangoldfool]

Eric1, Read this article older post 

It really was not even about him/her was it?

Not really. He's a key that unlocks your thoughts about something from childhood. Those thoughts live in the space between hope and fear. For the most part, that's residual thought from a childhood wounding. He just came along and ripped off the scab. As the Buddhists say, it's not the arrow that matters, it's the wound that it leaves.  When an arrow is shot into an old wound, it can bring up all sorts of repressed pain.

When we try to recover from being wounded, we begin by questioning things about the arrow (weapon.) For instance, was the arrow wood or was it metal? How fast was it traveling? and so on... . but what really matters here is the wound that it leaves or re-opens. The focus shouldn't be on the weapon- it should be on the wounding. How deep is it? How do we stop the bleeding? How do we heal? Is this an old wound that needs even more care because it didn't properly heal in the first place?

Being in a relationship with someone that reinvigorates an old wound can you cause even greater distress than a new wound, especially if you thought the old wound had completely healed. For many of us, we thought we had healed, but that wasn't exactly true. We've never been able to heal our original wound- we've just placed a band-aid over it. Many of us here have had no experience with real healing -due to our own neglect and unresolved pain from childhood which we tried to cover up and hide from others. That's what a relationship with a BPD uncovers.

Personally, I wasn't able to see things clearly when I was mirrored and then acted upon. The confusion made my pain so great that I wasn't aware that the behaviors were truly being done to me. I just wanted that confusion to go away- but I returned to the very person who confused me to get answers and in their compulsive lying they wounded me. This only served to create a cycle where I returned to them in order to have them *heal* my confusion and pain. In hindsight, I wanted this person to feel *my* pain.  Choosing people that wound me and who are also incapable of feeling my pain only pours salt into my wound because that excruciating lack of empathy just feels *familiar* to me.

People lacking empathy are my greatest fear. My second greatest fear is that I deserved this behavior and that I must have caused it based upon my own insecurities.  My greatest fears were activated in a Borderline relationship, but (it's not really about him.) It's about me.

Returning over and over again to view the arrow and see what type of weapon it is doesn't address the wounding. That arrow actually lives in the space between fear and hope that another human being will take responsibility for wounding me. This is unresolved *wants* from my childhood and will likely NEVER be resolved by the people who hurt me. I can no longer confuse my *wants* with my *needs*.  Sometimes you *need* to walk away and protect yourself even if you *want* this person to make amends.

I can focus my concentration on *need* to the point where I intellectualize the arrow and return to question it over and over again, but in doing so, I allow it to wound me over and over again unless I retreat my energies and concentrate instead on healing the wound.  The wound was always there- it was just re-opened.

Once the arrow is out, I have to keep it out and prevent myself from reactivating the wound- just to feel the pain and keep myself down. The wound is what's important here- and why I use it against myself. I keep opening it up in order to peer inside, splashing salt and feeling pain because it just feels familiar to me.  Sometimes it's easier for me to do that because I know it so well. The hard part for me is ejecting the melancholy soundtrack music that plays inside my head.  It's purpose is to make me feel badly about myself.

What's really needed here is to concentrate on healing the original wound without crawling inside it and living there. It's not about him- he only reactivated the feelings to arise. They are familiar. Taking the time to heal them means addressing your needs versus wants. Do you want to let those feelings go? You'll have to feel them. Write them down in a journal. Cry. Plead. Throw a temper tantrum. Exercise. Get some fresh air. Wear dark glasses. Cry again. These ghost people still haunt you. They weren't there for you- get mad!

One day you'll realize that it wasn't your fault- and that there was nothing different that you could have done- you'll begin to reach acceptance and purge yourself of these thoughts.  Then you'll uncover something about yourself that you'd never thought of before. You'll realize why your needs seem to get pulled off into dysfunction and who these modern day partners really represent. You'll reach wisdom about who you are and why you respond.

The pain wont be so addictive anymore. You'll be willing to let it go and reach acceptance that you are in control of your destiny.

This really is a life changing experience. You have the ability to heal yourself. It's painful yes, but also enlightening. You'll be able to get an idea of what you want in life and what you really need and that's the best gift a PD person ever gives you- the truth about yourself.

[goldylamont]

Eric1, I'll tell you this--I stayed in contact with my ex for about 10 months after our breakup. I don't regret doing this, in fact I'm glad i did. For me, I got more positive out of it than negative--but, I kept contact with dignity. There's one distinct difference though between our situations--I didn't know what BPD was at all until having complete NC with her for 6 months. So while I stayed in contact with her after our breakup I had intuitive knowledge that she was a nut job but no name for it. I needed to see for myself her intentions, her behaviors, and I got to see this.

Why do I not regret staying in contact? One because I drew strong boundaries, I was living my own life, going out on dates with other really attractive women, having fun with friends, working out, etc. So I was doing my best to lead a positive life--but still, don't get me wrong, I was devastated, and I allowed myself to be devastated and to process (be gentle with yourself). Also, even though I didn't know about BPD I instinctively could *feel* when I was being used (not all the time) and I would push her away then. 2 Weeks after she moves out of our apartment her and her new bf of 6 weeks, of course, are having issues. She starts texting me and telling me how much she thinks about me--it was a big ego boost for me, but totally inappropriate. I knew she was doing this on the sly and abusing the new loser she was manipulating. I soo wanted to hear these things from her, but my instincts told me (correctly) to not take the bait so I told her I appreciated hearing from her but that I needed some time to process things--that I wanted to be friends but that I needed some space. She basically rammed serrated knife through me for resisting her control here, but also I put her in check which is something rarely experienced by someone as manipulative and physically attractive to her--which equaled "respect". I'm putting "respect" in quotes b/c she never truly respected me.

In any case I let her drive herself into the ground with her new guy. They breakup with him texting her all kinds of foul messages and her crying out to the world about how terrible love is and me laughing quietly to myself. I'm glad I saw this demise because it showed me that I wasn't the issue for the fallout in our r/s; and also that I handled ending a 4 yr r/s with much more integrity than the sucker she preyed on when he found out who she was in 4 months. Aaah, the story ends the same--just don't be "that guy"!

Still, after she broke up with this guy i didn't jump on her. I still did my thing and refused to make any moves (although i definitely wanted her back) because i knew she'd need time to heal from this and LEARN (remember I didn't know what BPD was). About 3 months later, we were both dating other people and talking occasionally. And Finally, she came out of her shell and we started having real talks about what happened. It was the most intense discussions I've had, there was a lot of pain and big disagreements but I was able to maintain some level of respect amongst her unfounded trauma from her self deception. Having these talks with her was healing for me, I could see more of the truth. Somehow she tolerated me stating my truths. And in some ways she *almost* apologized for much of her behavior.

In the end, about 10 months or so after our breakup (about 4 months after she broke up with her ex), I made my move and tried to get her back. This was because of several hours of intense discussions between us. It was because I felt she had sufficiently changed and had learned some things to at least try. It was because I still had a lot of feelings for her, and I knew that I needed to find out the truth for myself if the r/s could be started again, on fresh new ground. I wrote her a love letter of sorts and left it on her doorstep. She said she was floored. We had dinner a couple days later, I asked her if she thinks about being together ever again and she couldn't answer. I thanked her sincerely for the talks and told her I needed some time alone to process everything before I could be her friend. As I'm walking out the door she starts crying and telling me she's loved me every single day since we split and wants me back and blah blah. We agree that night to get back together, break up with the people we're dating and give our r/s another try. She's all crying and shaking and telling me she's so happy about us. 24 hours later, after I break things off with the girl I was dating at the time, I get a call from exBPD and she says "I think I just want to be single"! Haahahahahhahahaha! LOL. isn't that ludicrous! so yeah, the next 5 weeks basically we just drifted apart and I called things off when I felt like she was just using me as an emotional crutch until she could start using hersexasaweapon against another guy (i found out later that's just what she did).

Sorry I'm writing so much but hopefully this will give you some perspective. All of this is to say--I don't regret it. I don't regret writing her the love letter. I don't regret giving it another try. Many people do, but I don't--why? Because in my case when I did those things, even though I didn't know about BPD I trusted my instincts, I told my truth, and I expected *nothing* from her as an outcome. Sure, I wanted things to return to being all peachy and us living happily ever after--but I didn't *expect* this to happen. The love letter wasn't just a way to make her feel good--it made me feel good to tell my truth and not care the outcome--and also it was strategic for me because I forced her hand. I had a timeline and I was like--if you still like this beast then you need to find out her true intentions, and soon. So I forced her to show her true colors... . which was vomit pink-green--and which I'm glad I got to see in full light.

If you are going to keep in contact--accept the absolute worst outcome for yourself as a possibility (her using you while seeing other men). And if you can do this and know that you won't regret it then perhaps this is the best way. But, like I said, our situations are different b/c I didn't have as much info as you now do, I didn't know what BPD even was until much later when her roomate calls me up and tells me she thinks my ex is mentally ill and then I did some research. Good luck to you!   

[Clearmind]

I guess you have two choices:

1. Move forward and find yourself a healthy relationship - because you know you deserve it

2. Call this girl and talk reconciliation

Often in the initial stages of the grieving process we believe it would be less painful to go back to our disordered partners rather than heal and move forward. The healing process no doubt is painful and we learn a lot about ourselves.

No one can tell you what to do - the choice is yours.

More information here... .

The breakup of a marriage or long-term relationship can trigger similar grieving responses to the death of a spouse.

There are 5 common stages of grief that a person goes through.  These stages were first identified by the late Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, M.D. when she spoke at the The Ingersoll Lectures on Human Immortality at Harvard University in 1970.

The five stages of grief are:

Denial

This is when we and our partner are on different page about our commitments to the relationship. This stage is filled with disbelief and denial.  

In the Kübler-Ross model, if your partner has died you still expect him to walk through the door.  The equivalent in a relationship breakup is that your partner is drifting away or has broken-up and you still think that he/she doesn't mean it - that it is a ploy or a reaction.  

Often in this stage we are engaged in relationship struggles and are expecting our partner to respond in the way that someone in a relationship would respond. However, they are in a very different, less caring place.  We are confused, hurt, put off by their behavior.

Anger/Resentment -

Anger often the reaction to being hurt and/or fearful, and helpless to do anything about it. The greater the loss, the greater the reaction.

In the Kübler-Ross model, you might feel anger at your deceased partner for dying (Kübler-Ross model).  In the relationship, you may feel anger at your partner for asking for a divorce and breaking up the family. You may feel anger at your friends or family for supporting her and not you. You may be angry for being betrayed.  You may be angery for not being idealized any longer (ego wound).  

Anger is a very complex pat of grieving - many of us stumble in this stage with either unhealthy anger (misdirected, trapping) or no anger (no release).

We need to determine why we're angry and focus our feeling on the true issues - if not, anger can imprison people.  

Bargaining

You try to negotiate to change the situation.

In the Kübler-Ross model, if you've lost a spouse to death you might bargain with God, "I'll be a better person if you'd just bring him back". In a relationship, you might approach your partner who is asking for the break-up and say "If you'll stay, I'll change".  

Bargaining is that stage of the break-up when you’re trying to make deals and compromises. It’s when you start talking about how an open relationship might be a possibility or a long-distance thing could work. It’s when you say to your partner, “if you just did this then I could do that and it would work”. It’s when you say to yourself that you’ll do x, y, z to be a better spouse so that the relationship doesn’t have to end.

Depression

The is the "it's really over" stage.

After all of the denial and the anger and the bargaining have been done and we realize that things really are starting to end and we become depressed. We fell helpless and powerless and overwhelmed with sadness about the loss that we are experiencing.  We realize the situation isn't going to change. The death or break-up happened and there is nothing to bring the other person back.  Acknowledgment of the situation often brings depression.

Acknowledgment often starts the serious process of us trying to understand what happened.

Acceptance – The "This is what happened" stage.

Acceptance is a final stage when we have finally sorting out what happened, accepted it and are more interested in moving forward than looking back.  

Acceptance can take a lot of time and a lot of processing. It involves understanding the situation, understand our role / understand their role, understanding what can be learned, and letting go / moving forward.  

Note: Each person mourns a loss differently.  You may not experience these stages in one fluid order. You may go through some of the stages more than once. Sometimes during the bargiaining stages we recycle the relationship. Or an event will trigger us to experience one of these stages again - like hearing your ex-partner is to remarry.