NC but still lurking ...

[talithacumi]

This is going to be a long one. Please bear with me.

As a lot of you are already aware, I stopped having any direct contact with my upwBPD 6 months ago after slogging through 2 years of push/pull hell following his decision to end our 12+ year relationship to be with a woman he'd met/gotten to know/been sleeping with for less than a month.

What I haven't admitted to, however, is that I've never stopped stop looking at one or both of their FB pages on a daily basis.

I found out about the affair via a mutual FB friend who messaged to offer sympathy/ask if I'd be interested in maybe going out for dinner with him sometime when I was ready after he saw the pic she posted of him officially announcing the change in her status to "being in a relationship."

Needless to say, I checked her page myself and, well, shamefully, have been doing so pretty much ever since for all the obviously unhealthy reasons it seems so many of us find ourselves doing this kind of thing as we desperately try to understand/come to terms with what happened, what's going on, and why.

His page was OUR page that I deactivated right after the breakup. Three months ago, I received a barrage of emails/FB messages from the family/friends associated with that page wondering what was going on after he reactivated and updated that page with a profile pic of them as a couple whose status was "engaged" ... . but not deleting any of the photos of us as a couple/family or unfriending/hiding his posts from anyone ... . which prompted me to start checking THAT page every so often as well.

Now, before you start clucking your collective tongues and wagging your collective fingers at me, please understand that I already KNOW I shouldn't be doing this. It creeps me out THAT I do it, and it scares me A LOT at this point in my recovery that every time I try to STOP doing it, I go into some kind of panic state that invariably has me smoking too many cigarettes, not being able to sleep, and ruminating endlessly again.

I'm writing about it today because I'm really trying to understand WHY I'm doing it at this point so I can maybe find another, healthier way to address whatever problem/issue I'm having that compels me to do it in the first place.

I want to start, however, by sharing some of the thoughts I've had about how I think lurking like this has actually HELPED me accept, come to terms with the reality of my experience with him, detach, and start to heal.

I've always been perfectly aware that all of the posts on both pages have been selected, as well as manipulated to some degree to create/support the image she/he/they have and need/want to promote about themselves and the relationship/life they share.

Suspect as they are, however, they've also been the single most consistent source of information I've had about what he might actually be doing since our relationship ended/he moved out ... . as opposed to his own even more suspect claims in that regard ... . and, of course, they've become pretty much my ONLY source for that kind of information since I stopped having any direct contact with him altogether six months ago.

That said, the posts on both pages have nonetheless tended to overwhelmingly validate the belief I've come to have that he does, in fact, actually suffer from BPD - which has allowed me to invest more fully/confidently in the information, advice, help, and support I'm getting both here, and from my therapist, with regard to what I've been/am going through.

I no longer feel the driving need to check their pages 100 times a day which, to me anyway, serves as a very visceral reminder that I AM making progress - especially as I uncover/feel/deal with a lot of older, deeper, core issues that can leave me feeling like I'll never get any better at all for a while.

And, finally, I'm no longer triggered by what I find there every time I look. When I am triggered, I spend more time now trying to figure out why/what about it caused me to have the reaction/response I did than simply letting that reaction/response have its way with me for hours/days/weeks on end the way it used to.

Which is how I ended up realizing that, despite how reassuring or otherwise helpful to me it is in a lot of ways,  it also - and for many of the very SAME reasons - makes me keenly aware of just what I and our relationship/family/life actually meant to him, what he perceives/believes/feels/thinks/says/does about all those things now, and how he is or might be compelled to use any or all of those things in the future should the need somehow arise - the possibility, or, based on a lot of the posts I've read here, LIKELIHOOD of which is, I believe, what sends me into such a panic state when I DON'T look/have any idea whatsoever about what's going on/might be going on that could compel him/his girlfriend to act out against me, one of our children, a family member, or friend again ... . or compel him to try to reengage with me and ask me to once again choose between HIS self-esteem and my OWN - a choice I've repeatedly/shamefully found myself making in his favor the entire time I've known him and have very little confidence I wouldn't simply make in his favor yet again at this point.

What I'm saying (sorry for the verbal congestion there) is that I think part of the reason I look is that it gives me a least SOME sense of how (relatively) stable he is at any given moment, and what the chances are, therefore, in that moment of one, the other, or both of them saying/doing something (like the updating of our old FB page) that will directly or indirectly give my still present, still difficult to control, emotionally-immature inner child the excuse it needs/is looking for to get sucked back into all that very familiar drama/FOG that seems so much like love (but isn't) again.

Okay, thinking about it now, I will say this about that particular line of logic: despite all my lurking, I DIDN'T anticipate and WASN'T actually prepared for his update of our old FB page ... . and I WAS able to control my inner wild child and NOT get sucked back in again either.

Crap.

I'm just fooling myself again, aren't I? Lurking - reading what they post - that's the last way I have of feeling connected to him, and indulging in the fantasy that we were actually in fact connected in the first place, isn't it? Take THAT away from myself, and it's ALL gone.

Yeah. No wonder I panic.

Sigh.

Oh, well. Maybe being able to recognize that for what it actually is means my brain/heart is finally willing/able to let it go.

I'll journal, and talk to my therapist more about it next session - see if maybe I might not be able to give stopping another try.

In the meantime, any thoughts/ideas/comments/insight would be - as always - greatly appreciated as I clearly feel like I'm really floundering here.

[seeking balance]

This might be more simple than you want to hear... . but maybe you just are not ready to totally let go yet... . only you know why and when.

What emotion comes up when you think about completely going cold turkey?

[talithacumi]

When I think about it, relief.

When I try to do it, mounting panic.

[seeking balance]

When I try to do it, mounting panic.

So FEAR

Ok - exactly what are you afraid of?  Dig deep - being alone forever, not being good enough, feeling the pain of the loss... . panic is a fear instinct... . typically a learned response to trauma.

Trauma responses fall into 3 categories - fight, flight, checkout/freeze.

Moving through trauma means FEELING the fear and sitting with it.  Are you ready to learn to do that?

[talithacumi]

Thanks for engaging, seekingbalance. This thing has me completely tied up in knots, and it helps more than you know just to be able to share/get some feedback.

What am I afraid of?

Afraid of being hurt/punished by one, the other, or both of them for "making" him miss me (or the rel/family/life we had) so much that she starts drinking too much again, gets crazy, fights with him, ends their relationship, throws him out of the house for a couple of days, makes herself so sick by continuing to drink that she ends up in the hospital, and neither one of them have "any choice" but to get back together til she gets back on her feet again.

Their words. Not mine.

Offered as the justification for why I, any one of our five adult children, various members of my family, and some of my friends "deserved" the kind of harassment, stalking, threats, and other vindictive acts to which we were all routinely subjected until doing so was no longer possible, or, at least really difficult to do - new email addresses & phone numbers around with call blocking just to make sure, personal change-of-anything confirmation requests filed with all critical agencies, our youngest son moving into his own place with no forwarding address, me subsequently moving a thousand miles away also with no forwarding address, and the cat (who was the only one to receive any threats of actionable harm according to the police) finally dying of old age in his sleep.

I've repeatedly felt like everyone was finally safe from harm - most recently back in January which is what allowed me to feel like I really could/finally stop having any direct contact with him of any kind - only to discover that where there's a will, there's apparently a way. Updating our old (and, by me, long forgotten) FB page, for example, instead of simply creating a new one. Somehow finding/getting my new contact info and using a temporary email address to send me a nasty message or borrowing someone else's phone to do the same via text or voice mail in the middle of the night. Or, as I've recently been told by my oldest son, leaving the same kind of messages in his mailbox/on his car for me as well as under the door of the little store where his wife works which, apparently, has been going on since shortly after I stopped having any direct contact with him back in late January.

So there's that.

I'm also increasingly afraid of having him figure out a way to write, text, call or otherwise get another one of the many sad and so seemingly sincere messages to me telling me how much he still loves, thinks about, misses, and hurts as a result of not having me in his life anymore - because even though I know NONE of it is true EXCEPT in the moment he's writing/feeling it - it IS true in that moment, he DOES feel it, he IS in pain, and he's VERY good at communicating that to me in a way that triggers the same emotional response FROM me that it always has - and I am NOT sure I WILL be able to resist acting on that response just like I always have as well - which at this point is absolutely terrifying to me.

So there's THAT.

And, finally, there's the knowledge that REGARDLESS of what happens - whether he contacts or not/whether I respond to any contact he might make or not - I will STILL ultimately be blamed by BOTH of them for "making" him miss me, causing her to drink, them to fight, her to end their relationship and throw him out, her to keep drinking til she gets so sick she ends up in the hospital, and give neither one of them with any choice in the end "but" to get back together until she gets back on her feet again - for which one, the other, or both them will feel completely justified in lashing out to punish/hurt me for in some way.

So there's THAT, too.

I don't think any of these fears are particularly irrational or without some basis in experience/fact.

I don't intend any of them to keep me from maintaining no contact either. It's the only thing that's allowed me to feel safe enough to start detaching, focus on myself/my own issues, and finally start to feel like I just might be able to recover from this thing afterall.

I even recognize that the lurking thing, at this point anyway, mostly just gives me a sense of security or control over his/her/their choices and actions that - well - I know I don't really have but clearly need to at least feel like I have under the circumstances.

I can't, and realize I very probably shouldn't actually stop being afraid of any of those things happening again. But I feel like there HAS to be something else I could do to relieve the stress/anxiety I feel as a result of that fear OTHER than lurking because it really doesn't work all that well in the first place - and it comes with a great deal of self-directed shame/loathing that I don't need/isn't really doing me any good at all.

Writing about it like I did today instead of doing it, for example, has been a lot more effective and, while a little humiliating, much better than feeling ashamed of myself like I usually do, too.

Thanks again for listening/responding. Really appreciate it. God, I love these boards.

[seeking balance]

I even recognize that the lurking thing, at this point anyway, mostly just gives me a sense of security or control over his/her/their choices and actions that - well - I know I don't really have but clearly need to at least feel like I have under the circumstances.

If looking on facebook is truly your version of a teddy bear so you can continue to heal - why are you judging yourself for it?

Do you have a therapist who can help you with some of the trauma this has caused?

[Grey Kitty]

I've got a very basic question I'd ask you about this situation:

Why did you choose to go NC with him? What were you trying to accomplish?

[charred]

When I try to do it, mounting panic.

So FEAR

Ok - exactly what are you afraid of?  Dig deep - being alone forever, not being good enough, feeling the pain of the loss... . panic is a fear instinct... . typically a learned response to trauma.

Trauma responses fall into 3 categories - fight, flight, checkout/freeze.

Moving through trauma means FEELING the fear and sitting with it.  Are you ready to learn to do that?

Well put. Post pwBPD seemed to be checkout/freeze for me, for the longest time... . facing the facts and accepting them is helping.

[goldylamont]

well, i will say that fb lurking is actually pretty normal in any type of breakup... . even in a healthy r/s i believe this is common. and especially in our situation where leaving a pwBPD is concerned it's even more drastic b/c of complete lack of closure or responsibility from this person. seeking balance is giving you really excellent advice and asking good questions. i will try and give you a few tips that helped me regarding the online stalkerishness 

1) i decided if i was going to go to my exBPDgf page and/or her current bf/victims page, b/c i couldn't help myself, i'd try to get something out of it. what i would do is try looking at pics that brought up anxiety in me and then i'd look away, close my eyes and meditate a bit on it. i wouldn't try to push the anxiety away just let it flow through me and see if i could catch a message from it or just let it pass. then i may look again, feel less anxiety, repeat. i'm not sure if this would work for you but maybe it could? recently there were some pics posted of her that made me kind of jumpy... . but it's been a while since we broke up so i'm working on the whole forgiveness phase, so, i would look at the pics again, feel the anxiety, look away and then when i would meditate i'd allow myself to just see the image as random people having fun. does this make sense?

2) i didn't de-friend my ex until a failed recycle where of course she treated me terribly. we didn't even have a big argument or anything (so proud of myself for that) but after getting off the phone, i was just like--"This person is NOT MY FRIEND", because she wasn't. so, i un-friended her right then and there. also i un-friended her sister/mother/family--they were always great but i did this to protect myself from trying to check in on her through their pages. your ex isn't your friend--there will be a time when you are healthily and rightfully angry--grasp this moment and de-friend his ass!  and if you need to un-friend his family to protect you from you then do this also it doesn't have to be done out of animosity.

and, as a side-note, chances are your ex is saving the act of de-friending or blocking you for a later date so he can hurt you more. it feels better if you do this on your terms.

3) un-friending my ex helped me a lot. i *couldn't* look :-) but still i could see some stuff on her page but not much. then, i pretty much stopped checking things out. months later after i didn't return some calls/texts from her i found that she had blocked me, which is hilarious and also a good thing. i would recommend that when you get the strength to block him completely, it does help.

they use fb as a weapon against you and a crutch for their own issues. i totally understand how you may be getting some info from these pages too regarding his whereabouts/doings--but also just know that half of the crap he's putting there could have as much to do with punishing you as it does rewarding his new r/s.

hope some of this helps. don't beat yourself up about fb stalking  if you can't help it for now try using it to your advantage and make a plan to completely block him (before he gets to it first!)

[talithacumi]

Again, thanks to all for reading/engaging.

Seekingbalance - Good question. I'm not sure why I judge myself. I'll have to think about it. I know I feel like I should be "above" resorting to that kind of behavior. That it's sneaky and somehow deceitful. And that it's also somehow tied into the feeling I have that I shouldn't have continually "given in" to being threatened/harassed and feeling scared by "hiding" (i.e. changing my email address/phone number, moving, not having any direct contact with him, trying to block all possible ways for either one of them to make contact with me, etc.). And, yes, I do have a therapist I trust (she's the one who first directed me to this site!) to help me work through this issue which is one of the things we're focusing on right now.

GreyKitty - I chose to go NC primarily because I found I really couldn't/wouldn't focus on anything other than the contact I was having with him up to that point. Couldn't/wouldn't think about, accept, and start to deal with the reality of what was, and had actually been going on between us from the get go. Would find a way to interpret everything he said/did as proof that the fantasy I'd been living was, not only real, but still very much alive. I went NC so I couldn't/wouldn't do that anymore.

[talithacumi]

Goldylamont - Thanks for the reassurance and the suggestions. I'm not FB friends with either of them - just FB friends to a lot of FB friends of both. Her privacy settings allow me to see most of what she posts. His allow me to see nothing but his basic info which isn't surprising considering how paranoid he's always been about being spied on by, well, crazy people like me apparently. I do use what I find when I look now to explore the kind of reaction it elicits (if any) and why it actually elicits that kind of reaction from me at this point which has been really helpful/enlightening. But that isn't why I do it, I know that, and I'd really like to be able to stop doing it without having the kind of ultimately all-consuming panic attack like I've always had every time I've tried to stop doing it up til now.

I know I'll get there. Eventually. Posting this topic, and opening it up for discussion is just another step toward reaching that goal. Think it might actually turn out to be a really BIG step in that direction.

Thanks again for all the help and support, everyone. Really needed and appreciated it today!

- TC

[Rose Tiger]

   Look at my (ha ha) boyfriend instead, I'm a sharing girl... .

www.google.com/search?q=fabio&rlz=1R2MXGB_enUS511&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=WeznUZohw-zJAZrbgNgJ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1386&bih=773#rlz=1R2MXGB_enUS511&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=fabio+lanzoni&oq=fabio+la&gs_l=img.1.0.0l10.2371.3728.6.6583.3.3.0.0.0.0.140.358.0j3.3.0.chm_pq_signedout%2Chmss2%3Dfalse%2Chmmql%3D2... . 0... . 1.1.21.img.sVTUHgxcdh4&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.49478099,d.aWc&fp=5e882ca5f2e9c597&biw=1386&bih=773


Isn't that way more fun than facebook?

[winston72]

Fabio!

It is easy to read the response from SeekingBalance as a directive rather than simply a question:

This might be more simple than you want to hear... . but maybe you just are not ready to totally let go yet... . only you know why and when.

What emotion comes up when you think about completely going cold turkey?

I think it really is a question.  And if the answer is, "not yet" than this is okay!  Something that comes through your posts is a strong sense of what you should be feeling rather than what you are actually feeling.  Those "should" urges don't help us a lot.

It makes sense to me that viewing the fb pages is a shocking sort of reality therapy.  It might be the jolt to your system that you need to lose some of the fantasies.  It is akin to making a list of all the painful aspects to the relationship.  It is, of course, not good to put ourselves in painful situations repetitively... . but maybe it is helpful to reset your view of reality.  And the suggestions from GoldyLamont were quite constructive.

Thanks for posting... . it all makes sense to me.  And please feel free to accept yourself!  Ha, not that I can authorize such a thing, but there it is anyway!

[David Dare]

I skimmed through this post really quick, don't have much time, but just wanted to mention my experience with FB, because I too am/was a lurker. 

When I initially broke up with uBPDx 4 years ago, I lurked all the time.  I did it because I wanted clues that would validate that the breakup was her fault and not mine.  It felt like my fault, even though mentally I knew there was BPD at play (something I was new to and learning about at the time).  There was never any closure to the r/s, as happens so often in these scenarios. 

Eventually, the lurking diminished over time, and over that time period I finally was able to perceive her as she really is, not the fantasy I had in my head.  She would meet a guy, snap, meet a guy, snap, and she published it all on FB.  So, in a way, it was theraputic, although it hurt. 

To be honest, I was jealous for a very long time.  When I'd see a new guy, I'd think about the great sex, the passion, and that she was now sharing that with someone else, her flavor of the month. 

So, anyway, I was thankful that FB was there so I could witness her life after me and put my own form of closure on it, but I wouldn't say FB was the key, it was also the time it took to untangle the knots in my head and heart as well.  Is lurking on FB helpful or harmful?  Who knows, but either way, if you're like me, you're not ready for a relationship at this juncture anyway, so don't let it break your heart too much.

FWIW, my uBPDx is no longer on my FB friends list, and I doubt I will ever see or hear from her again.

[Rose Tiger]

I apologize for my flippant answer, Tali.  I read your post and then was thinking about it.  I imagined if you had millions of dollars and hired body guards for you and all your kids, then what would you say to your ex.  Imagine if you could post on FB some magical way that only he could see your words, what would you say?  I imagined someone like Fabio and other suitors telling you how beautiful and wonderful are and how you ex was such a fool in how he treated you.  I imagined Fabio punching your ex in the noggin if he ever tried to bother you.

Yes, this is so intertwined with my own processing of detaching with the ex.  So when I posted, I didn't want to go into what I needed but thought, hey, maybe you could use a Fabio too, in your imaginations. 

[talithacumi]

Big LOL, Rose Tiger! And flippant is fab, btw. Can't help but go there myself a lot of the time just to deal with/distance myself from all the craziness.

I dunno about Fabio. Jason Statham, though ... . oh yeah!

Met with my therapist Friday, and had a great session talking about this particular issue ... . especially the shame I feel about my compulsion to do it (thank you seekingbalance for pointing that out!). I am working on accepting the fact that I have been traumatized, am afraid, and have every right to be afraid of myself or one of my kids/friends being targeted for more harassment, stalking, threats, or bizarrely insensitive/emotionally cruel behavior so am naturally going to do whatever I can to relieve that anxiety/stress ... . even if it's just indulging in the false belief that, by lurking, I'll be able to anticipate/prepare/be ready to deal with the next assault when/if it ever comes.

As for the lurking itself ... . well, at the recommendation of seekingbalance, I decided to sit with my fear for a bit and realized that it was almost exactly the same kind of fear I have when my also uBPD/NPD major rager mom needs something, leaves me a message, or has one of my sisters pass a message along to me about how much she loves/misses me, doesn't understand what happened/why I don't seem to be interested/love/care about her anymore, and just wishes I would call/be close to her again. Thought I'd dealt with all the guilt/shame/self-loathing I feel for removing myself and my kids to a safe distance from her. Realized that I'd actually just been too busy raising those kids/being a family with my exuBPD SO to even think about, let alone deal with how my decision to do that with her effected me on an emotional level. So now there's that being thrown into the mix as well.

Oh, Jason Statham ... . I really wish you'd just show up in your immaculately tailored white dress shirt, tell me how beautiful/magnificent/breathtaking/loveable I am, and kick everyone's ass who doesn't agree ... . instead of just leaving me here to learn to radically accept all this crap, be mindful, take better care of myself, set some boundaries, and otherwise sort through all this crap myself.

Maybe tomorrow.

Today is 6 months of no direct contact for me. A monumental accomplishment and one I had very little hope of ever actually being able to achieve when I started. So I'm putting on a little mental party hat and breaking my low carb diet vow to my sister  to eat a GARGANTUAN piece of chocolate mousse cake with extra frosting while watching Jason Statham kick a whole bunch of people's asses in "Revolver" as he so eloquently expresses so many of the feelings/thoughts I've had ever since this whole thing began with lines like:

"One thing I've learned in the last seven years: in every game and con there's always an opponent, and there's always a victim. The trick is to know when you're the latter, so you can become the former. "

"The greatest con, that he ever pulled... . was making you believe... . that he is you."

"The greatest enemy will hide in the last place you would ever look."

"The longer you listen, the sweeter the pitch."

"Look at me! Does it look like I care about the consequences? F* him! F* the consequences! F* 'em all!"

"Oh, I know you're still there... . cause I can feel you dying. I can hear you tapping me... . for a little nutrition. Now who's looking for a fix? It's getting a little tight in here, you say? Well, you're not wrong... . cause the walls are moving in. No food here. Not today, sunshine. My eyes are open and the restaurant's closed. Jog on. Slide off. Find someone else to fill your pipe. Someone, who won't see you coming... . or know, when you're there."

It's gonna be a GREAT day!

[Rose Tiger]

Oh wow!  Excellent work getting to those insights.  I love those moments of clarity.  Of course you would be checking and trying to regain some sort of control and protection.  Of course Jason would 'work' better than Fabio.

"I can't believe it's not butter." 

Love this one:

"The greatest con, that he ever pulled... . was making you believe... . that he is you."

That is a mind tumbler.  I believed something that didn't even exist.  I didn't walk at the first sign of non-Fabio-like behavior.  Because with a critical mom, I was dang lucky to have anyone stupid enough to look my way.   I suppose we will need to call in Roseanne to have a little talk with our moms.  Heh heh heh.

[Beenreplaced]

Tali,

Thank you for having the guts to post this and tell everyone that you lurk on FB.  I believe a lot of people on this board do but are afraid to admit it.  I am two years out of a seven year relationship with a UBPD with one year n/c.  I found out so much on fb.  You see, he left me after dinner one night.  I asked him a question, he lost it, called me ugly, ugly names, raged at me for 45 minutes about how awful I was and left, never to be seen again.  His abandonment of our relationship was mind blowing to me; actually it devastated me.  It took all of my strength to pull myself up and move on but, I have to say, if not for fb, I never would have known what he was doing (he replaced me within three weeks) what he was capable of (went hiking with my replacement and back to the hot tub on my birthday within three months of leaving).  When people cut you off with no explanation and you can't talk to them because they won't respond to you, you have to find something, anything that will give you a clue as to what the heck just happened and fb did that for me.  From what I have gotten from this post, my problem is that by peaking means I am still attached... . bummer.   Why? In my defense, I do believe that seven years is a long time and I believed everything he told me, I ate every word so I have to give myself a break and realize that it is just going to take more time but I really want all of this behind me. His posts don't affect me anymore, pictures of his vaations with my replacement, etc., don't bother me at all, actually I am quite used to it.  But, I think because he comes across as the nicest, sweetest guy you ever met that I peak in the hopes of watching his facade crack. Why is my issue and I own it and after reading this thread, I have to explore it but thanks for posting this.  I really needed it.

BR

[talithacumi]

Beenreplaced - thanks for sharing, and, yes!, a big part of what makes me so uncomfortable about it is that it strongly suggests that I still have an attachment to him that I really don't want to have at all anymore because of the absolute lack of reciprocity involved.

I've spent a lot of time thinking, and writing about this issue ever since I first posted ... . and in the middle of it, responded to another post on the leaving board, that (like so many I've written) was something I myself actually needed to hear with regard to the fundamental trauma of being made to feel, in so many ways, like this person really just doesn't care anymore.

That was, and still is, very much my emotional perception of what happened. A perception, of course, that my brain immediately dismissed as an impossibility - an understandable overreaction and misinterpretation of what I was experiencing perhaps - but something no human being actually has the ability to really do. It was beyond me -for much the same reason - to even consider, let alone actually think that he'd never cared. So my brain latched onto the only logical explanation it could come up with at the time: that he actually still did care just like he always had, but just wasn't able to admit/express/act on it anymore for any one of the many very understandable reasons he might feel the need to do that for himself under the circumstances.

Thus began my great two year wait for him to feel safe/comfortable enough with me again to admit/express/act on all that care I knew he must still have for me after spending 12+ years of his life with me - two years of continuing to consistently be shown, told, and otherwise made to feel like he didn't really care at all - and two years of my brain refusing to admit that this was even possible, let alone what had actually happened/was still happening.

It was at this point - after having been subjected to a wide range of increasingly disturbed/disturbing behavior (see above) - that I moved, got a new therapist who directed to me to this site, learned all about BPD, came to believe he very probably was/had always been afflicted with it, started operating on the assumption that this was why he wasn't able to admit/express/act on the feelings he really still had for me, and was able to shift my focus away from trying to figure that out and onto what about me attracted/made me so attracted to him in the first place, allowed me to have a long-term relationship with him, contributed to the demise of that relationship, and was preventing me from being able to detach from/let go of him and that relationship as well.

What I hadn't done over the course of this last year however - and maybe wasn't willing/able to do until I posted that reply a couple of days ago - was connect the dots between what I know about BPD and my emotional perception/experience of what happened.

I never even thought about it.

I just kept automatically dismissing my feeling that he didn't care about me at all anymore (and maybe never had) as the impossibility I'd been taught/always believed both of those things to be, thus preventing myself from fully embracing/accepting my newfound knowledge that, not only WERE there people who could do that, but that there was a very good chance, based on the behavior I'd witnessed, that he WAS actually one of those people as well.

Now, I'm not quite sure why validating my emotional experience/perception of what happened has made such a phenomenally HUGE difference for me, but it has.

It's not just about being "right" - although, admittedly, my narcissistic side does love it a lot for that reason.

It's not just about being relieved of the suspicion, fear, and guilt I've been carrying around that this experience/perception was defensive, reactionary, baseless, immature, petty, and otherwise histrionic either - although , again, my narcissistic side loves it even more for this reason as well.

I think, mostly, it has to do with making everything line up/become infinitely clearer for me in a way it hasn't before.

It's allowed me to see that it doesn't MATTER if he did/does really care but is just being actively prevented by his disorder from admitting, expressing, and/or acting on that feeling anymore - something I've not only always believed, felt, thought, and told myself repeatedly MUST be the case but something most of my family, friends, therapist, and fellow posters to this board also seem to believe, feel, and tell themselves must be the case as well.

What DOES matter - and, in many way, is the ONLY thing that really ultimately matters, is that he DID, very suddenly and for reasons largely his own, completely stop acting like he cared in any way at all after 12+ years of acting like he DID, and is STILL acting like he doesn't care at all some three years later.

This WASN'T something I expected. It wasn't something I thought anyone COULD do. I absolutely could NOT reconcile what I felt had happened with what I had been taught/rationally believed to be possible, and I was/have been/continue to be therefore VERY understandably SEVERELY traumatized on a very fundamental psychological level as a result of that seemingly irreconcilable disparity.

It's THAT trauma, in large part, that I really need, and have been trying seven ways to Sunday to recover from for so long.

And THAT trauma is what I've resuffered to some extent, over and over and over again, EVERY time I've any contact with him, or seen/heard anything ABOUT him and the life he's living now.

Having HAD (finally) this little epiphany - having FINALLY connected those particular dots for myself - I found I really didn't need, and very much didn't want to keep doing this to myself anymore.

So I stopped lurking. Just stopped. Cold turkey. With no problems. No panic attacks. No anxiety/stress.  No more corollary guilt/shame. No more cognitive dissonance/disparity running me in circles inside looking for reconciliation.

For the last two days I've felt very, very clear and calm with a very different sense of certainty/confidence about myself that I haven't had for a very, very long time.

It's still new this feeling. I'm still skeptical that it won't just turn out to be another red herring I've allowed myself to so enthusiastically follow as I work on getting myself out of the place I've been.

But I'm also hopeful that maybe it won't turn out to be that, too.

And, as always, I'm sharing what I've at least felt I've discovered in the hope that maybe it will resonate and/or strike a nerve in someone else who's still struggling with this as well.

Been a great couple of days for me - in large part because of this board, this post, and everyone's interest, support, and comments. Thanks so much.

- TC

[goldylamont]

Tali,

Thank you for having the guts to post this and tell everyone that you lurk on FB.  I believe a lot of people on this board do but are afraid to admit it.  I am two years out of a seven year relationship with a UBPD with one year n/c.  I found out so much on fb.  You see, he left me after dinner one night.  I asked him a question, he lost it, called me ugly, ugly names, raged at me for 45 minutes about how awful I was and left, never to be seen again.  His abandonment of our relationship was mind blowing to me; actually it devastated me.  It took all of my strength to pull myself up and move on but, I have to say, if not for fb, I never would have known what he was doing (he replaced me within three weeks) what he was capable of (went hiking with my replacement and back to the hot tub on my birthday within three months of leaving).  When people cut you off with no explanation and you can't talk to them because they won't respond to you, you have to find something, anything that will give you a clue as to what the heck just happened and fb did that for me.  From what I have gotten from this post, my problem is that by peaking means I am still attached... . bummer.   Why? In my defense, I do believe that seven years is a long time and I believed everything he told me, I ate every word so I have to give myself a break and realize that it is just going to take more time but I really want all of this behind me. His posts don't affect me anymore, pictures of his vaations with my replacement, etc., don't bother me at all, actually I am quite used to it.  But, I think because he comes across as the nicest, sweetest guy you ever met that I peak in the hopes of watching his facade crack. Why is my issue and I own it and after reading this thread, I have to explore it but thanks for posting this.  I really needed it.

BR

Tali i think it was courageous for you to post this. You know i heard somewhere it takes half the time you are in a r/s to recover fully from it. I'm 1.5 yrs out of a 4 yr r/s so i guess that gives me 6 months to get straight!   Seven years is a large part of our lives and history and i think the lesson i'm learning is that i *am* improving, and that things happen in their own time. and, yes, checking fb did give me some info about my ex, in my opinion it was good validation of how i felt to know that her behavior with me was just a pattern for her. i can say that i'm also glad that i completely unfriended her and now we are blocked so there's pretty much no correspondence. i think perhaps getting to the point where you can unfriend and then block the person can be seen as milestones, but it takes time... . b/c damnit we want to Understand! 

[Beenreplaced]

TC,

Thank you for your response.  It is a lot to take in for me but it really, really reasonates with me.  I do believe that my emotional perception versus my brain's perception are still at odds over this.  I never thought anyone could just forget someone without a thought after they supposedly "touched" their lives for such a long period of time but I have been shown this many, many times.  I live in the North East and this past year we had Hurricane Sandy and a snow storm that dumped 31 inches of snow and you know not a word... . are you ok, just checking to see if your boys are good... . absolutely nothing.  You would think that my brain could somehow see that for what it is and this has always been my problem and one of the reasons I stayed with my ex for so long.  I always look for the good in people and dismiss the bad.  You see, due to my FOO, if I did the opposite I would have no family left.  It was all I had.  Keep looking at the positive and dismiss the negative.  But, I have also never had someone in my life no matter how long or short mean NOTHING to me but I am not disordered and I don't NEED people to feel whole.  And like you that is what has kept a part of me attached, I believe in a way I am waiting for the good side of my ex to show again and due to his disorder all good feelings about me are blocked, like my warranty has run out.  This is where (and I finally understand) the "don't take it personally" comes into play.  This is probably is the hardest point to try and process because it was personal to us, unfortunately it just isn't for them and it won't be for the my replacement and the replacement after that.  I think I am starting to understand why so many members on this board actually start to feel sorry for them.  It is a very lonely way to live.  Thank you for helping me see my way through this.

BR