Can't figure out if I'm a jerk or not...

[RedCandle]

I had a thread a little while back... . my struggle deciding what to do with his "stuff"... . post break-up 2+ years... . during which he's openly enjoyed many other women... . but has kept saying he loves me... .

I finally decided I just need to get his stuff OUT of my home. I was using it to emotionally hold onto him.

I mailed it... . and, given that he's currently sleeping around, I didn't know if he' even respond... . or care... .

Well. This is what I got back:

For years now, I blamed myself for having such a large role... . thank you for that package. Though it appears to be given with cruelty and selfishness... . I  don't know... . but it is a gift.

I did not deserve the way you treated me. I don't deserve to be treated like this now. If you are not ashamed of yourself... . I am for you.

I hope and pray for you.

He seems to be saying that the returned items "releases" him from his accountability to everything that happened.

But now I feel horrible. Maybe I just feel horrible because he probably could care less. Or maybe I AM a jerk for giving it all back to him?

[DeRetour]

RedCandle,

Clearing your ex's stuff out of your place is a major step. How does this feel for you? I'm sorry to hear that he responded with those remarks. Of course those words can be hurtful, coming from your ex. Here's what I have to say about that. He's been out of your life for the past 2 years, yes? Or at least you haven't been romantically involved during this time?

Once you two split up, it should have been his responsibility to take care of his belongings. And the polite thing would then be to have an agreed-upon period of time for him to find storage (or another home) for these belongings. RedCandle, there is nothing jerky about giving him his stuff back.

[RedCandle]

Initially, I was SO excited about getting rid of it. Every time I open the closet... . THERE IT IS.

Let me clarify, these are not things he NEEDS. These are things that are his that I had acquired (gifts or otherwise) over our relationship. Things like his promotion jacket (from work), his t-shirts, his AA chips, his visors... . and a key to his house.

I have held onto them as though they were an extension of him. As an excuse to have hope.

But he kicked me out of the house 2+ years ago... . has been with many others... . and we've gone through at least a dozen recycles.

I just couldn't take it anymore. I didn't want to throw it in the garbage... . it has too much emotional value for me. He could probably care less about it... .

So I mailed it... . and the SECOND I left the post office... . I became so ANGRY.

And I've been ANGRY for DAYS now. I just can't shake it! I don't even know what I'm angry about!

ANGRY that is my reality? Angry that he's never going to be who I want him to be? Angry that he likely doesn't care?

And then I get THIS.

and now I just feel horrible.

[DeRetour]

Also, you've probably thought about this already, but if your if your ex has BPD, wouldn't this explain why he's shifting the blame over to you, rather than owning up to his part?  I know it's difficult though. My situation is probably quite different - for one she was getting ready to move in with me, and kept clothes and toiletries at my place. It's funny though (not really funny, but interesting to think about), from the very beginning, I got this sense from my ex that anytime she'd ask me to hold onto something (her bag, her wallet, etc.) it was as though she was thinking I'd run away or never see her again, otherwise. Hmm.

Well, I just want to say again that there is nothing wrong with re-claiming your space. There was nothing bad about giving your ex his stuff. Good for you in taking that step. Hugs!

[DeRetour]

RedCandle,

Oops! I think I misunderstood the situation here. You had stuff of your ex's that you had held onto for a while, with a sense of hope that he'd return to get them. These weren't really things he absolutely needed, more just extra things that were still special to him. I see...

Well, that said, I think there is nothing wrong with mailing his stuff the way you did. Again, congratulations on taking that step. I'm sure this is hard for you, but you did a good thing for yourself, if your goal is to move on. Extra hugs!

[DeRetour]

Sorry, I don't mean to spam with another response, , but... i just want to say it sounds like you have a good  sense already of what's going on. As you sent his stuff, you began to feel some strong emotions - anger and, it sounds like, guilt. From what you've said so far, holding on to his stuff meant you didn't have to fully face that he's gone. But now, you can have the chance to use this physical/mental space on something that makes you feel happy and strong.

[RedCandle]

GUILT. Yes... . that's IT.

I feel guilty. And I feel lonely knowing that I sent back the ONLY thing I had to "hold on" to him. And... . I feel bad because I got an angry email.

If I wasn't so twisted in around this human... . I would have sent it all to him TWO YEARS ago when he threw me out of our house. Or after the FIRST woman he slept with. But I haven't. It was seven months of zero contact until just a few weeks ago... . and still, all I got was an email.

I think I feel really bad because I didn't send a note EXPLAINING why I'm returning emotional items. This board reminded me that... . I don't owe him an explanation at this point. So I didn't include one.

I'm angry that he's angry. Angry that he seems to FURTHER distance himself from his OWN role.

I'm glad its all gone. I really am.

I need to keep telling myself that HE ended the relationship two years ago... . and I NEVER hear from him now.

I don't really understand why he cares. If he doesn't GENUINELY care about ME... . why care about getting the package in the mail... . ?

[Trick1004]

No, you're not a jerk. I would say he is but it really is the BPD coming out.

You're been broken up for 2+ years he's been out living it up without a care for your emotions, you still had stuff of his hanging around and you decided to mail it back to him (I probably would've just tossed it). This stuff wasn't important enough for him to get and it sounds like he was using it as way to stay connected and keep you from moving on.

So now he's upset. Ask yourself why. Is it because he got his things back? That doesn't make much sense. Or is it because he has lost another way to keep you attached to him? Well, in the BPD world this makes much more sense and doesn't make you a jerk, but rather someone trying to move on from a toxic r/s. Nothing to feel bad about that!

My ex left stuff or hers and took some of my things (mostly minor stuff) when she moved out. While she was moving while I was at work she kept wanting me to help her move "to make sure she didn't take anything of mine" I never did bite but would just text her do whatever you want with moving but I can't see you. Even after she would periodically text or email me wondering if she took anything of mine or left anything of hers by "mistake" (I never responded to these attempts). Well, she did but none of it was irreplaceable and she had ample time to get her things so anything left behind that I didn't want went into the trash. Did I feel bad about it? Initially a bit but now not at all.

[Scout99]

GUILT. Yes... . that's IT.

I feel guilty. And I feel lonely knowing that I sent back the ONLY thing I had to "hold on" to him. And... . I feel bad because I got an angry email.

If I wasn't so twisted in around this human... . I would have sent it all to him TWO YEARS ago when he threw me out of our house. Or after the FIRST woman he slept with. But I haven't. It was seven months of zero contact until just a few weeks ago... . and still, all I got was an email.

I think I feel really bad because I didn't send a note EXPLAINING why I'm returning emotional items. This board reminded me that... . I don't owe him an explanation at this point. So I didn't include one.

I'm angry that he's angry. Angry that he seems to FURTHER distance himself from his OWN role.

I'm glad its all gone. I really am.

I need to keep telling myself that HE ended the relationship two years ago... . and I NEVER hear from him now.

I don't really understand why he cares. If he doesn't GENUINELY care about ME... . why care about getting the package in the mail... . ?

I think Trick1004 has already put it very well... . Giving you some useful perspectives by trying to see the situation from this guys eyes... . That will give you a good sense of why he feels so compelled to write you an angry and abusive email, which it is... .

To add some extra juice to that bone, I have come to believe that the BPD disorder is not an always constant thing but instead fluctuates over time, and in periods the person suffering from it shows more symptoms while other periods are calmer or more symptom free... . Connected to this is of course some circumstances. And being in a from the BPD's eyes stable r/s can prove to be a time of less symptoms showing, whereas times of being lonely leeds to a more promiscuous lifestyle, like the one you describe you ex has been in the past two years since your break up... .

In short, as you can see, he is showing more symptoms of his disorder now judging from his current lifestyle. Tht may from an outside perspective look like he is having the time of his life... . But we all know that what a BPD person fears the most is loneliness and the type of lifestyle you are describing he is indulging right now plainly wreaks of that... . So if that is any comfort, his lifestyle and his note to you shows he is not doing too well at the moment... .

You cleaning your house from his albeit not necessary stuff means to him that you are finally able to move on from him, and that feels like what to him? And the class goes: Abandonment! What does the discomfort of fearing abandonment trigger in a person with BPD? And the class goes: Dysregulation and rage!

It is not about feelings for you to him, but feelings about him and his issues with abandonment that is the reason for his outburst over getting his stuff... .

A normal guy would have reacted, (if at all), by writing something along the lines: Thanks for sending me my stuff... . I had almost forgotten all about them, so I am sorry that you have had to put up with having them clutter you home for so long. I should of course have come and picked them up myself a long time ago, but like I said, I had forgotten all about it... . Take care, best wishes or whatever is their preference on ending notes... .

Do you see a difference?

Your guy makes this all about him, and has to try to assign some blame on you... . and for what? For being kind to return his stuff, two years after the fact, instead of just tossing them, like someone here suggested... . It took courage and a lot of pain for you to send them back. And instead of letting his infantile feelings cloud that you should allow yourself to feel proud of yourself for having come to a point in your recovery where you can handle taking this step! That is part or your new life. A life hopefully without any more PD infected relationships... . ? 

And a bout being angry! Feeling angry is a good thing! It beats the h*ll out of feeling depressed and thrown to the ground... . Feeling angry is an important step towards acknowledging your own true feelings and your own true self and a sign that you are coming out of his spell and into a place where you are beginning to gain some important perspectives on what this r/s has really put you through - apart from being attached to, infatuated with, obsessed with and all the other things we get for free for falling in love with a person who loves with the intensity of a five year old, but who fights like one too, with only the difference of having the tools and the weapons of a full grown man... .

Bottom line - you deserve to feel angry about his immature and annoying behavior, about all the things that he has done to you, while you directed all your kindness and goodness of heart to saving your relationship, and saving him... . He has violated that and has not honored your feelings, and for that "crime", he deserves your feelings of anger - each and every one of them feelings!

So allow yourself to be angry. And then once you get tired of that, let them, like him go... .

Best wishes to you!

scout99

[cska]

Dear Candle,

You did a mature thing by sending him his stuff. In your previous thread you said yourself that you wouldn't want anyone else to throw away your things, so you didn't throw away his.

So now he is trying to guilt you. Its very common strategy used by pwBPD. He is gaslighting you and making you question your reality. And now you find yourself confused and asking yourself whether you are a jerk or not.

In your previous thread, I told you to always examine the motives/emotions behind your actions. The reason for that is so that you would be confident in your reality, and the real reason behind your actions. Remember, I told you to ask yourself whether your actions are driven by hate or a desire to get back at your ex.

So why did you send back his stuff? To heal! NOT because you were driven by feelings of hatred, NOT because you wanted to get back at him! And when he tries to make you feel guilty, you must always remind yourself of that. Keep telling yourself: "My actions were not driven by hate, and therefore I have nothing to be guilty of!" Do't let him gaslight you, be firm in your own reality.

And btw, you're not alone. My ex tries to guilt me all the time. Here is a quote form an e-mail she sent me 2 days ago:

"You purposely did things that sent me into constant anxiety frenzies while we were trying to work things out you provoked me. You abused me."

But in reality, I did the exact opposite of this. I would spend an obscene amount of time to make sure I wouldn't say or do anything that might upset her. And I keep reminding myself that I did all I could to help her, and I will not let her guilt me and make me question myself.

(I'm not gonna lie, that e-mail made me extremely sad and upset, I had to really force myself to snap out of it, it was really hard.)

[musicfan42]

He just got annoyed with you because he's lost control over you. He knew that you were keeping those items for sentimental reasons so the very fact you're giving them back means that you're moving on-and he knows that. It sounds like he wants to keep you dangling, like as a back-up, just in case he ever needs you for anything... he wants to be the one in control. By sending the stuff back to him, it's essentially like telling him to f off really and he knows it-that's why he says "it appears to be given with cruelty and selfishness". The rest of the note is just really him raging at you, lashing out-narcissistic injury really as his ego has been bruised.

[123Phoebe]

I did not deserve the way you treated me. I don't deserve to be treated like this now. If you are not ashamed of yourself... . I am for you.

I hope and pray for you.

RedCandle, he's full of nonsense and twisty ___.  Who says, "If you are not ashamed of yourself... . I am for you"?  For sending him back his stuff?  He hopes and prays for you?  

That's a little over the top.

As others have said, he's losing control of you.  He feels out of control.  Him Him Him.

You've regained your own power  Sounds like you're letting yourself feel your way through this now... . your way.  Anger!  Oh yea!

Anger can be great!  Especially when we can focus and direct all that energy on something constructive, like exercise or doing something physical.  Kick boxing, digging up an old bush and replanting it, heading to the batting cage to knock a few balls around, scrubbing the bathtub until it gleans!

Woo hoo, anger!

You not only sent back some clothes and few trinkets... .  You packed up a world of hurt and shipped it back to its original owner.

You are not a jerk at all   He is, for sending you that vile note   And it's another profound glimpse of what a lifetime with him would be like... .

[RedCandle]

Fully of "twisty hit" INDEED, 123! Ha!

Everyone... . that was awesome... . and just what I needed. And it makes sense.

Every time I have ASKED to return his stuff... . he has sent deductive responses about how they were gifts of "love"... . and I keep them.

You're right... . any NORMAL guy who broke up with someone two years ago would probably be SURPRISED that I still had the stuff and INDIFFERENT to its return. Instead... . I should be ashamed of myself.

This stuff was the last physical tie... . he knew I was still wearing it all. And now it's gone. You're right... . that was the last way to keep a vice on my heart. I understand the perspective now... . thank you!

[drv3006]

I am not really good at responding on these things.  Mainly cause I am messed up myself.  However, that note to me would reassure why I needed to be gone in the first place.   I feel for these peopole with this disease I really do.  But placing unrealistic guilt, constant projection--Wow!   When I read that response to you, it totally helped me.   I got someone who wants his coffee cup back for God's sake.  Really, I have gone NC with him and I feel pretty okay for now.  But if I sent a "coffee cup" back even to be nice, that is the exact response I would get.  Something like how terrible I was and that he couldn't drink coffee for weeks and went through withdrawals.  I don't know, some unrealistic guilt trip.   Thank you so much for posting this.  I am not gonna fret over a coffee cup any longer.   I think I can throw it out.  Kudos to you for sending him back his stuff.  And Kudos for not responding to the anger guilt that he has tried to pull you back with.  Yours sounds like mine.  Instead of sweet talking you in engaging once you are broke up.  Totally tries to make you feel like a piece of crap.   And wonder why we don't engage.  Well I have engages sometimes.  Sigh

[rosannadanna]

All I can say, RedCandle, is YOUR EX IS AN A$$HAT.

I will second all the excellent feedback you have gotten so far and I am glad you are not second-guessing yourself about your actions anymore.

Years ago, when I was moving on a from a nonBPD relationship, I read a little book called "How To Fall Out of Love".  It's by Deborah Phillips and you can get it for like 1.99 on Amazon.  It is a handy little book that guides you with Cognitive Behavioral techniques on how to detach from a romantic relationship.  I remember one section that talked about imagining your ex in an embarrassing or comical way as a way to devalue them in your mind (as opposed to obsessively overvaluing them as we often do and it keeps us stuck).

As I was reading your ex'es response, I imagined him in a school-boy uniform, complete with short pants and knee socks, talking in a very snobbish accent (think Thurston Howell III)... .

[RedCandle]

HA! Rosanna that was awesome!

Yeah... . I am truly lucky to have this Board... . everyone set my head on STRAIGHT.

I will have to come up with a good "scene" to imagine him in. Right now, its a lazy fisherman who just pulled up his line and found that there was NOTHING there besides an OLD piece of uneaten BAIT.

[rosannadanna]

That's the spirit