Was I expecting too much from my gf?

[DeRetour]

Hey gang,

I could have easily titled this: "Please remind me that she's not worth it." Sorry if I'm a bit melodramatic, I'm struggling with guilt, sadness, anger, and confusion.

I guess I need a little extra words or thoughts. My uBPD-exGF has been texting/calling recently, now that it's been about a month of NC. I'm doing my best to stick to it. But two things make it hard to do this: one, she's texting/calling and breaking my heart with messages like: "You're breaking my heart... . I did nothing to warrant this little respect. I wish you cared... I have nothing to look forward to anymore." and two, I find myself thinking about the things that made me really want her as a wife. She had a lot of things that made being together feel like home.

Did I do the right thing? Was she really not worth it?

I made a list, warning, it's long and ranty. Mostly, I'm trying to remember that this was the same person who:

1) Withdrew and had strong episodes of withdrawing, not letting me touch her, if something didn't go her way.

2) Controlled how I responded to her criticism, by always threatening withdrawal or a display of anger (hadn't hit me, yet, but her temper would rise quickly and she'd often want to hit something like a wall)

3) Push-pull pattern throughout our relationship. Fights often started with: "Are you okay?" Followed by probing my facial expression and making me promise that I was. Sometimes if something was bothering me, I'd have to express it and she'd take offense and, before I knew it... . we were in a "fight" - her responding belligerently, belittling me, and threatening to leave, while I'd do my best to just keep a calm voice and sometimes end up pleading with her and apologizing. Fights were used as reasons for her to "just go home" or threaten to go on break.

4) Took any moment of my being upset personally.

5) Webcam: during the first few months of our relationship, she had a webcam habit. It started with her last boyfriend when he was "showing less attention". She didn't stop and withheld it from me. I found out on my B-day. She cried, seemed to show regret, closed her account, told me she could "just go home" instead (threat?), and insisted that I be done talking about it after that night - rather than let me process. Also, she continued to follow a couple of porn Tumblr pages.

6) Took months to introduce me to her friends. "When I'm READY!" she'd often tell me defensively. Finally did so, but kept her FB status as "single". Bringing this up led to our first breakup - she escalated, told me I'm ridiculous for demanding such a shallow thing as posting our relationship publicly. We got back together and she promised to change this.

7) Used Instagram on a daily basis, mostly posting pictures of her meals, sometimes herself in a new hair style, and sometimes with friends or family. She posted ONE photo of us in the same picture. And it gave no indication of our being together. If I took her out to a good dinner, she'd take a photo of the meal, and put NOTHING about us in the caption :/

8) Claimed I needed to "get better" often.

9) If we had a fight, often it was over something really small, then generally magnified and blown into something way out of proportion. A fight often led to her being "depressed" for 30 minutes, sometimes a full day. Early when we were first dating, it led to her taking a week-long break, blaming it on me.

10) Was very secretive. Kept her phone locked and Facebook closed all the time. She'll deny being secretive, of course.

11) When "depressed" she'd go to her co-workers or others and talk about me. I've often had to listen to her paint others in her life black - her brother, her parents, certain friends, etc. Often there was a threat. She threatened to cut off ties with her brother.

12) Scared me with talk of suicide a few times.

EDIT: 13) Something I should add as icing on this cake: She often re-posted questionable things on her Tumblr page. She'd re-post images that were sometimes pornographic. Sometimes there was strange sarcasm or humor. And she'd always attribute this to just being sarcastic and liking to joke, that I took things too seriously!

Sorry I'm so needy these past few days. But I'm sure you understand. I'm struggling with not giving in to her desperate pleas for me to respond to her texts and calls. Thanks for any words of wisdom, extra encouragement, or sharing your experiences, any feedback.

More later

-DeRetour

[causticdork]

I wish you cared... I have nothing to look forward to anymore.

I have received this text, verbatim, from my ex while I was NC.  I also could have written this entire list, except for 4, 5, and 6.  The rest are all issues I dealt with every day.  I'm guessing your ex is somewhere close to the same place in the BPD spectrum as mine, and I've caved numerous times from those texts, and the results are ALWAYS the same:

First we text back and forth, apologizing and saying we never meant to hurt each other and trying to get back to being friendly. 

Then we talk about some more serious things, and it seems like we really connect and understand each other, and that now things will finally be different because she GETS IT this time. 

Then she decides to push my boundaries.  Usually boundaries that she agreed to and claimed to understand and respect the last time we talked.

From there either I restate and enforce my boundaries and she paints me black and claims I never loved her and she never wants to speak to me again, or I let her push those boundaries and she keeps pushing until I can't tolerate anymore, and then the same thing happens anyway.

She spends a couple days sending me random texts where she either tells me how much I sucked as a girlfriend, or tells me how amazing her new partner is, or passive-aggressively attempts to make me feel like crap. 

She goes silent for a while, the length of time probably depends on what's going on in her current relationship, but I can't say for sure.  When I hear from her again it's something like, "I miss you" or "I still love you, ya know." If I don't respond she sends texts like the ones you're receiving now.  If I do respond, go back to step one and repeat cycle forever. 

Just my experience, but stay off the ferris wheel of suck if you can.

[seeking balance]

: "You're breaking my heart... . I did nothing to warrant this little respect. I wish you cared... I have nothing to look forward to anymore."

What emotion do you feel when you read this text?

[LoneWolf768]

: "You're breaking my heart... . I did nothing to warrant this little respect. I wish you cared... I have nothing to look forward to anymore."

What emotion do you feel when you read this text?

seeking balance, I feel like my heart is in my stomach now, which is to say I'm extremely sad. I used to get texts like this from my ex" I'm sorry you don't love me and want me.", "I'm sorry you didn't want it (the relationship) like I did" and "Most of all, I'm sorry I couldn't  be who you wanted me to be." ALL the texts I received like this were, I thought, heartfelt but then I read between the lines and saw she was essentially blaming ME through these kinds of texts. 

Causticdork, wow... . reading your recent post is like you and I dated the same woman. I remember that pattern like it's etched into my brain now. It during the serious talks, when we would (I thought) clear the air, I'd be on this tremendous high. Then it would start to go south, like the vehicle we just filled with fuel and set on cruise control started to lose its breaks.  In a 15 minute span - sometimes less, sometimes more - I'd go from King of The Mountain to King of The Gutter! And she would wonder why I'd get so angry at her. Well sweetheart, you just made me an emotional yo yo so of course I'm going to be pissed!

[DeRetour]

Causticdork,

Wow.

Your ex really does talk like mine. She would always say: "I love you, you know." Eerie. And it was often after she painted me black. Funny thing I just remembered actually... the first time she told me she loved me was right after a fight we had, when she decided to go on a break! It was right about this same time in the year, interestingly. Stupid, stupid me... . we weren't yet bf/gf - that was something she kept saying she wanted to have (she "wanted to hold my hand," etc.). I don't know how I stuck around for those months without the label! I'll never do that again. We promised each other exclusivity. I made it clear to her that if there is anything outside of us, I would end things. Hm. She kept her phone locked, and silly me... . I stayed in this slow torture, never fully trusting her, but convincing myself every day that I was just being anxious. Ughhh.  Oh... . I digress.


Causticdork, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I hope you're taking steps to get yourself clear of your situation. From what you've shared, you sound like a caring girlfriend. You still really want the best for her. Hang in there and keep focusing on you. You are so worth it! More to come.

deRetour

[DeRetour]

"You're breaking my heart... . I did nothing to warrant this little respect. I wish you cared... I have nothing to look forward to anymore."

What emotion do you feel when you read this text?

SB,

Ah! That's a good question. How did I feel about this? Well... .

Reading this... it pulls at my heart strings. Sorry if this is a bit much, but it describes pretty well how it feels for me... . I feel incredibly guilty and sorry. I feel as though I've taken some vulnerable already-tortured puppy dog, submitted it to some horrible torture while watching it yelp and yelp, then put it back in it's carrier, completely out of control. I feel really ___ty and just want to hold her. That's how I feel.  

Yes, it's torture to deal with, but I need to continue with NC. I can't have more push-pull. I need to get myself well and find myself a real partner.

[seeking balance]

"You're breaking my heart... . I did nothing to warrant this little respect. I wish you cared... I have nothing to look forward to anymore."

What emotion do you feel when you read this text?

SB,

Ah! That's a good question. How did I feel about this? Well... .

Reading this... it pulls at my heart strings. Sorry if this is a bit much, but it describes pretty well how it feels for me... . I feel incredibly guilty and sorry. I feel as though I've taken some vulnerable already-tortured puppy dog, submitted it to some horrible torture while watching it yelp and yelp, then put it back in it's carrier, completely out of control. I feel really ___ty and just want to hold her. That's how I feel.  

Yes, it's torture to deal with, but I need to continue with NC. I can't have more push-pull. I need to get myself well and find myself a real partner.

I am not trying to sound insensitive by this next question... . bear with me... . is guilt the same as love for you?  Can you envision NC an act of love?

[DeRetour]

"You're breaking my heart... . I did nothing to warrant this little respect. I wish you cared... I have nothing to look forward to anymore."

What emotion do you feel when you read this text?

SB,

Ah! That's a good question. How did I feel about this? Well... .

Reading this... it pulls at my heart strings. Sorry if this is a bit much, but it describes pretty well how it feels for me... . I feel incredibly guilty and sorry. I feel as though I've taken some vulnerable already-tortured puppy dog, submitted it to some horrible torture while watching it yelp and yelp, then put it back in it's carrier, completely out of control. I feel really ___ty and just want to hold her. That's how I feel.  

Yes, it's torture to deal with, but I need to continue with NC. I can't have more push-pull. I need to get myself well and find myself a real partner.

I am not trying to sound insensitive by this next question... . bear with me... . is guilt the same as love for you?  Can you envision NC an act of love?

Ah. No this is a good question. Let's see... . yes. On an abstract level I can think of NC as an act of love ("for the better good", etc.). I'm having a difficult time imagining what that feels like to accept, but if I were listening to this as an objective party, I'd probably accept it just fine.

Silly question, but how does someone actually internalize accepting NC as an act of love? Is it something with time? Or, does this also involve the simultaneous work on self-esteem issues? Hm.

Thanks for posing such awesome questions, SB!

EDIT: I just realized I overlooked another important question: Is guilt the same as love? Well, often I find that I struggle still with guilt anytime I start to enjoy something. I think of suffering around me or of other things that aren't so happy.

[seeking balance]

Regarding the guilt... . do you believe you have the right to be happy?

Love as a form of NC... . for me, I believe that nobody gets help until they hit a bottom of sorts.  I also believe BPD in particular requires a partner 100% in, not an ex trying to be there, but not really.  Boundaries are important for a pwBPD, so I see enforcing them as love.  Kind of like when you have a child who lies, you teach consequences to actions because you love them, not simply to punish them... . not sure if that makes sense.

[DeRetour]

Kind of like when you have a child who lies, you teach consequences to actions because you love them, not simply to punish them... . not sure if that makes sense.

SB,

Aha... of course. When you use the parenting example, it totally makes sense to me. I certainly know that when I become a parent (hopefully some day... ) Of course I'll do my best to enforce those boundaries. I'll confess actually, I find myself getting a little frustrated when I see parents who are overly-permissive with their children. They relate almost as a peer rather than an elder and teacher - afraid of squelching. But that's a whole other topic. When I think of my own upbringing, I know there were issues with boundaries. Main problem there: inconsistency. A child needs clear boundaries and consistency to feel ultimately safe.


Okay. I appreciate that you made this connection here. NC can certainly be an action of love in this regard. Thank you much!

deRetour

EDIT: also, to answer your question, do I have the right to be happy? I do believe I have the right to be happy on at least a rational level. Now, on other levels, in other contexts, it's been a challenge. I've gone through therapy in the past to deal with this very thing. It gets so frustrating, because I want to succeed in life and relationships, but it's so effing hard sometimes. In my relationship with my ex, anytime she was feeling "low" or depressed, it was very difficult to do anything but desperately try and help her out of her funk. And if I was the one to blame... . ooh... . things would get tense, my heart would literally race out of fear that she'd withdraw or escalate things into a fight. But yes, more generally speaking, that whole guilt thing just gets in the way of speaking up for what I want. I really just want to be done with stupid guilt so I can do the things I need to do! Thanks for another good question!

[KellyO]

I found out in my journey that for me quilt was love. Love was other feelings too, feelings of shame, abandonement and loneliness. I had named this things as "love", because they were feelings of my childhood. Add pity there too, it was easy to make me feel quilt and pity. It was shocking to realize that whenever I met a person who provoked these feelings in me, I was in "love". And I loved my ex-bf so much it hurt insinde me! And then realize... . it was never love. Not really. Those feelings I thought were "love" were so real. I wanted best for him, but I abandoned myself. I thought that is how love looks like and that is how I must be when I love someone. Then it is "real love".

[DeRetour]

I found out in my journey that for me quilt was love. Love was other feelings too, feelings of shame, abandonement and loneliness. I had named this things as "love", because they were feelings of my childhood. Add pity there too, it was easy to make me feel quilt and pity. It was shocking to realize that whenever I met a person who provoked these feelings in me, I was in "love". And I loved my ex-bf so much it hurt insinde me! And then realize... . it was never love. Not really. Those feelings I thought were "love" were so real. I wanted best for him, but I abandoned myself. I thought that is how love looks like and that is how I must be when I love someone. Then it is "real love".

KellyO,

Wow. You know... . when you named these feelings something just sort of clicked. I think I've held on to similar notions of love to what you've described in your journey. Kudos to you for having the clarity to learn this about yourself!

Yes, I too seem to have somehow associated feelings of abandonment and that "hurt inside" that I'd feel for my gf, as love. Interestingly, I can remember many moments where when I'd think of how much I loved my ex, tears would well up. I never told her about it, but one day, in a tender moment together, she told me the same thing. Interesting.

That said, in my personal experience, I don't know though... . would I necessarily want to completely dismiss those feelings and say... . they aren't a part of love? But yes, it's an understatement to say that so many intense emotions seem to come up when we talk about our BPD exes, isn't it?

[DeRetour]

I don't know though... . would I necessarily want to completely dismiss those feelings and say... . they aren't a part of love?

Okay, brainfreeze moment, haha.

I thought about that for a minute. In a healthy relationship, these feelings (abandonment, that "hurt inside", and shame, etc.) are probably a couple of feelings we don't want to have associated with love. I mean, those are a couple of things that bring us to the boards, yes?

And I totally mean that respectfully, KellyO. You used these as examples of previous ideas of love and I was noticing that I held similar ones. Hope that makes sense! Thanks for your insight.

[KellyO]

Thank you for being so honest with yourself

We form our image of love as a child. That image can be totally wrong and it can be dangerous to us. We, who got this imprinting just have to find it out and dismiss it. Understand it is not our fault, but we are now responsible to fix it in ourselves. Ultimately there are only two feelings in this universe: love and fear. Knowing that I mixed feelings that are actually based on FEAR to LOVE, helped me a lot. Write down what you think love should be, and examine it.

It is definitely not easy to find out our faulty consept of love. The truth that we have given name "love" to things that have nothing to do with love. If you can remember some moments in your childhood where you could have made the wrong conclusion of how "love" looks like it is most helpful, at least it was for me. For example: I had to remember how I got my first beating from my father when I was 4 years old. Child can't bare the thought that she is not loved. So, he had to be doing that because he loved me and I was bad. Feelings I had that moment = love. What he did to me = love. If I could be better, he wouldn't have to beat me, and he could show he love in ways that does not involve hurting me (there comes my difficulty to leave people who abused me, I was sure I could earn their love). At same time I lost all my trust to my father. So, when I grew up I was notorious in my will to love men who could not be trusted at all. If man was honest and trustworhy, I could not love him. Or "love" him.

Dismissing the faulty concept of "love" allows you to find the real love in yourself, and you don't want to anymore be with people who you can't truly love and who don't truly love you back. The sacrificing, all-giving "love" looses all its glory, and you understand that love is not something that is drained out of you so others could benefit from it. It just is, inside of you. You don't even have to react to it if you don't want to.

[SurvivedLove]

I just realized I overlooked another important question: Is guilt the same as love? Well, often I find that I struggle still with guilt anytime I start to enjoy something. I think of suffering around me or of other things that aren't so happy.

I think NC is very much an act of love.

You go NC, because you try to love yourself enough to let go of the toxidity that your relationship with your ex was, despite the random 'shiny moments' you had.

NC protects YOU from doing something that hurts YOU even more.

So with NC, you chose to start loving yourself.

But NC also shows love towards your BPD ex.

Because you're not the only one the relation has hurt, she/he has been hurt by it too. And with your NC, you stop both of you from further hurt by continued contact, until the pain fades to a bearable point or totally fades away.

NC = love. In my book, yes.

[seeking balance]

I really just want to be done with stupid guilt so I can do the things I need to do! Thanks for another good question!

To succeed in this, starts in accepting our childhood caregivers (those that taught us about love and self-worth) likely used guilt as a teacher.  Not a judgement about them, but understanding how this actually happens.  2 great books - Drama of the Gifted Child (not for the week to read) and Daring Greatly can show how this dynamic happens.  Daring Greatly gives examples of successful parenting to reframe thinking.

This is something that requires us to re-parent ourselves and our thinking process.

"I am" statements are powerful for this.  For example, let's say it has been a stressful week of social and work related events.  Friday afternoon you come home and realize the house is a mess.

What do you say to yourself?

"This house is a mess" or

"I am a mess"

It is subtle, but detaching actions from self-worth requires a mindful effort in self talk.  I didn't realize how much I did it until I started paying attention.  Now, I have changed how I talk to myself - as such, I can see a difference in my "guilt" factor.

Another great book just came to mind - The Gifts of Imperfection

Great questions - keep digging!

[causticdork]

I just started reading Daring Greatly last night.  It's really excellent so far. 

And DeRetour, in the time you've been posting on this board it's been apparent that you're excellent at listening and acknowledging and encouraging others.  You are going to be just fine.   

[DeRetour]

So with NC, you chose to start loving yourself.

SurvivedLove,

Thanks for the encouragement. It really makes a difference hearing it from someone who speaks from experience. The detox process in itself is a roller coaster, as I'm sure you can attest.

But NC also shows love towards your BPD ex.

And yes, these past couple of days I've been starting to understand how this is an act of love - simply maintaining this boundary... I think(?). But yes, it makes more sense. I guess it's time to learn how to have boundaries and keep them in life.

Take care!

-deRetour

[DeRetour]

This is something that requires us to re-parent ourselves and our thinking process.

"I am" statements are powerful for this.

SB,

Oh, yes! I do in fact believe there is power to how we phrase things. This is something I have focused on in the past, with therapy, and reading self-help books over time. I thought about your hypothetical self-talk: "The house is a mess." vs. "I am a mess." hm. How would I have phrased it candidly? Probably I would have thought, "Ughhh... . what a mess!" Now, beneath those words, I probably would have had a nonverbal feeling, something to the effect of, "Why can't I be one of those perfectly organized, well-adjusted people who have some system to cleaning?" etc. I'd like to think that all of our levels of thinking interact and influence one another enough to lead to a net effect of improvement. But yes, awesome SB, perhaps it's time to start examining this internal dialogue and the feelings associated with it.

Let's see, you also mentioned some books: Drama of the Gifted Child, Daring Greatly, and The Gifts of Imperfection.

The digging continues. Thanks for this helpful feedback - like I said, something just really clicked when you discussed NC in the context of love. And those questions, I'm digesting them. Thanks a bunch SB!

deRetour

[DeRetour]

I just started reading Daring Greatly last night.  It's really excellent so far. 

And DeRetour, in the time you've been posting on this board it's been apparent that you're excellent at listening and acknowledging and encouraging others.  You are going to be just fine.   

Caustic,

Thank you for being awesome and sharing words of encouregment at such a challenging time for all of us. I think I might start with a download of Daring Greatly. Keep on it too! I know you can do it. Just reaching out here, reading up and seeking out the tools to move forward, it will get better.

deRetour

[DeRetour]

So, I started this particular thread because I was feeling overwhelmed with some deep sadness, sorrow, and guilt. I found myself thinking of the ways my ex felt like "home" to me. And, therefore, the strong need to be reminded that the things I listed were not qualities of a good girlfriend. It was brought up (thanks SB and KellyO!) that sometimes painful emotions, such as abandonment, sorrow, etc., are associated with, even mistaken for what we understand as "Love".

Whereas yesterday I was feeling a lot of sadness and guilt, today I've been feeling (what I think is) disgust when I think about my Ex. I found myself thinking: "Blechh... how could I have thought I was in love with her?" I'm not sure how long I'll be feeling like this, or if this is some reactionary thought, or what.

Can anyone relate?

-deRetour