11 years of a 1 sided losing battle

[Cipher13]

I think emitionally I am throwing up the white flag.  She said she was going to call someone to end this this morning. Just another trigger.  I fight a battle I am not letting myself get any sort of control of. I don't want a win or lose scenario. I just want an ability to have a say.

I am possibly to blame I supose.  11 years ago I was busted at looking at internet porn. Not a proud day. Since then I have ben caught a couple other times. Lesson not leaned I guess. I do not do that very often an not in the last several years. I have owned up and apologized for this. 

All arguments and conversations have this issue as the casue of her not trusting me. (I can see her point). However when asked if this will ever be put aside if she can get past it she says she can not trust me.  No matter whatI have doen since (text every free moment and even moments I'm not free, let he know what I am doing at every single moment, she has looked over my phone records, and made me quite a second job that she and I aggreed I should get becasue it is the perfect cover for cheating since I was not allowed to text.)

She constatly tells me I am not doing anything to fix the problem. I don't know how to answer her. I say I am and she says " The hell you are, I supose I just keep making things up about you treading me with disrespect. You are full of it just stoping doing this to me"...


How can I walk away from almost 12 years and with her always being so vulnerable. Sh has placed a lot og uilt at my hands and with our past she can make me think I can never be forgiven. She has never forgiven me even if she has mentioned it before. If she can put the past to rest and move on we are never going to be healthy mentally.

[frustrated b/f]

Wow man, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. IMHO, your internet indiscretions should not rise to the level of distrust your wife has displayed however, each person IS different. I think once you let it be known that her behavior has warranted serious consideration for separation, she may come around, or may even agree whit you. In general, start to acknowledge that relationship has become broken and you may not posses the necessary tools to fix it. If you are indeed ready to leave, this may be the mental preparation that you and her both need.

[Surnia]

Hi Cipher13

Perhaps it is time to ask yourself the question: Is your rs healthy or not?

Beside the porn issue I hear also controlling issues. Could be she is generally very suspicious or jealous and the p thing is something to put guilt on you, which is a very good manner to control someone.

Second thing: How is for you the porn issue? Is it something from the past and you can forgive yourself? Or is it something that you know that deep inside this is better controlled but not gone? Than it would be perhaps better to address this with a professional?

Generally spoken, living in a rs with always the same guilt over and over is so exhausting!

[Cipher13]

Perhaps it is time to ask yourself the question: Is your rs healthy or not? Beside the porn issue I hear also controlling issues. Could be she is generally very suspicious or jealous and the p thing is something to put guilt on you, which is a very good manner to control someone.

Second thing: How is for you the porn issue? Is it something from the past and you can forgive yourself? Or is it something that you know that deep inside this is better controlled but not gone? Than it would be perhaps better to address this with a professional?

Generally spoken, living in a rs with always the same guilt over and over is so exhausting

Answer to #1. Our relatiosnhip in public seems ok. Privatley there isn't anythign I would say that is unhealthy other than the daily dealings of BPD matters and other complications for that. No  physical abuse or drug or alcohol use at all. No children in the picture to worry about. We never had kids.

Answer to #2. The porn issue I feel is not an issue in the sense that it controls me or compells me to look at it. I have gotten over the need to have to look or find ways to try ot look at it. I just found that it was more prevalant in my youth and more or less phased out of it. Some of my confusion about the porn early in our relationship is that on occasion we watched it together a coupel times. Now she sometimes would sheild my eys and want me to watch her. But htat was only 2 or 3 times before we got married then never again after that. I have this in check personally. I have talked to a professional about it at her request. I never felt it a proplem before and less so as I get older.

She has always asked me why  I did that and why I would want to do that. She is not statysfied with my answer. I myslef am not totally as I can't find one. I mean it started as a young teen. It never engulfed my life. It was always only a minescule part of my life. I woudl say it was no different than most of theother teenage boys got into. I mean it didn't subscribe to websites or magazines. Heck I never bought one before enve. Nor have I ever been to a strip bar before. Never had the desire to to.

[Surnia]

She has always asked me why  I did that and why I would want to do that. She is not statysfied with my answer.

My guess is, if it would be not the p issue, it would be something else.

What about using SET:

S: I love you honey and I like to be with you and support you.

E: I can understand that in the past you were very uncomfortable about me watching porn.

T: Watching porn is for me something I am not proud of. It is long time since and it is not a something which is in my interest anymore. I would like to to wipe the slate clean about this topic.

[Cipher13]

Actually I have used SET many times without having even know about it. I have used it many times espcially when this came up in the past.  Now that I know about it I still use it.  Never one time have I ever seen it work even the slightest little bit.

[Surnia]

 

Yep, sometimes it works and for some of our SO it doesn't. It was the same with my xh, so I can relate.

What about just leaving the room or doing something else?

"For me the porn issue is history." -----> Leaving the room.

[Cipher13]

Since I have never tried to just leave the room I'm sure it will trigger and responce.  I am learning to not fear those responces. I beleive its a non issue. Asking her if it coul dever be put behind us she says no.  There are out lying trust issues that she also says probably will never go away.  Without the constant 24/7 control or eyes on me she says in here mind I can only be doing something bad with someone else.  She wanted me to take a lie detector test... I am not apposed as I have nothig to hide. I said would you beleive it 100% no matter what it said? If it said iwas telling the truth and hat there is no ohter person in my life would you believe it... . "No they can be tricked".  So tha answer is if it says I'm lying then I'm lying. If I am being truthful I am tricking it and still lying.  So don't think we will go that route.

I had a meeting that ran about 20 mins late. I told her I'd text when I was done. She said her mind thinks that when I say I am in a meeting and can't contct her that I am messing aroudn with another woman. I said what if you were conserned enough to call my office and ask for me. They would have told you I was in a meeting.  She said that I could just as easily have them cover for me.

So her mistrust is deep. No matter what is going on her mind is telling her the negative is true and all other explanations are cover up  or more lies.  This kind of thinking is totally wearing her out. I can see it.  It happens even with simpler things liek she emailed her boss awish list of items for negotiation to stay on board. She wanted to quit they wanted her to stay and said give us a wish list.  She did. Since she didn't get an answere back in her alotted time frame in her mind... . about 15 to 20 mins... . she texts me about it and says they probably are telling me no.  Then when she does get a response thanking her for being detailed and that they will consider all of there carefully and get back to her at the training meeting tomorrow she says to me so thats a no from them then isn't it.

She waits for the negative and create it if its not there.  Its frustrating and for here its got to be torture mentally.

[Vindi]

Cipher, have you ever cheated on her in the past? is this a reason why she doesn't *trust* or do you think the porn thing makes her *think you want to cheat*? even though you have not watched it in a while, maybe she just has a problem with letting that subject go. And was she cheated on in the past, that she brings this extra baggage into each relationship?

[Cipher13]

Never ever cheated on her or in any relationship in my past. She sees it as just as bad as cheeating so in her mind it was exactly that.  She cheated on me 1 time before we got married... . I almost for got about that. I don't dwell on that.  I am not even sure if I believe she did even though she told me.  She woul dbreak up with me a lot for strange reasons... . like my voice doesn't sound confident... i act imature when we are being silly... . i am not confifdent enough... . and things liek that.

When she told me she said it was a co-worker that follwed her home and broke in and forced him self. When I was about to call the police she changed the story to she invited him and made it up so I wouldn't be mad.

Now I wonder if even that was made up to get a reaction.  I think the others were tests also. See what I would take to stay and fight for her.  Maybe I am way off but thats just an idea. I'm not so niave that there can't be other possibilities but for now thats where I am leaning.

Now here other realtionships I don't knwo too much about. He first love was a couple years older then her when she was in high school he left to go to college in Chicago. She has had from what I could gather "dificult relationships"  pot smoking losers seem to be a common thread.  Having never even touched a joint or smoked cigarets for that matter I was the only "clean cut goodie goodie" she ever dated to my knowledge.

Oh she mentioned a stalker before to. Nothing ever happened other than he seemed to be everywhere she was for a few months after just 1 date.

[Surnia]

Since I have never tried to just leave the room I'm sure it will trigger and responce.  I am learning to not fear those responces. I beleive its a non issue.

Yes, I agree with this. We give in, we are silent and our own space is decreasing.

OMG, a lie detector test! Honestly, Cipher, so much mistrust from her side  :'(

[Cipher13]

Yes a lie detector. No friends. I can not be alone. I can not go to any even witha co-worker. In a nutshell she is terriefied unless she can put her eyes on me. Anything less is terrifying to her.  She texts me alot at work. She is nervous whe I say I can't i'm in a meeting.

I want to leave but I have repeatedly told her I won't because I love her. I do love her but not this.  Its like when she asks me if I miss her... . I'm in the same room just on the eliptical machine next to her. Anyhting other than yes is trouble. Oh and it has to be a sincer "yes". I hint of anything else is cause for fake yes. She can tell.

[Surnia]

I was there too, Cipher. I could not go for a bear with my co-workers after work without a major blow up at home... . and I did this really not often anyway.

Perhaps you may read this article:

The Characteristics of Healthy Relationships

[charred]

There is a saying that you are only as sick as your biggest secret. For a pwBPD... I suspect that if when you first met her you had been open and said you really loved porn, (and clearly had no issue about it)... that her reaction would have been an astounding... . ME TOO.

However, if you are secretive and try not to hurt their feelings... they grab on to it and don't let go. Its probably just a way to shame you and bully you.

The dynamic with a pwBPD is just like with a parent/child... when you meet them they give you what seems like the unconditional love you never had, and love bomb you and one day you find you have them on a pedestal and react to them subconsciously (transference) like they are your mom. When they switch to being an angry, moralistic hater... . you quake in fear, are defensive and it is like a replay of something out of your childhood... . because below the surface that is what it is. Its not a normal adult r/s, and when you breakup you find out it is far worse than any normal breakup, because of the weird primary r/s position they are in.

People that have a less than ideal childhood (about all of us that get in r/s with pwBPD from what I can gather)... have their own issues, and one of them is sometimes doing things to self sooth that help avoid trouble... . and for us trouble is often being in an authentic intimate r/s. Porn goes along with an inauthentic self soothing substitute for what would fill the hole in the heart many of us have deep down. The pwBPD also fills that hole... . but with bologna... as we find that they are not authentic, but very much ego manipulators, and the r/s we have with them is mutual neediness based, rather than genuine intimacy based.

Anyway, the way to your own sanity is to accept reality, she is disordered, probably irrational and manipulative much of the time. You already see things as a 1 sided losing battle, and trying to fix her is unlikely. I am not defending porn or saying your right she is wrong or vice versa... just trying to point out that both her and the porn are substitutes for good intimate r/s with people and going for those while easier is not in either case going to fix the trauma drama FOO issues that drew you guys together, you can work on yourself and move on.

[Proud_Dad]

Cipher13,

WOW. You just wrote my story almost entirely... . same subject, same guilt, same projections, same control issues, same everything... . The only big difference is the presence of children, and we have only been at this for about 4 years. It scares the hell out of me to think that it could go on for as long as you describe, this has been mental and emotional torture. The irrational demands that are made of me completely astound me on a regular basis.

I would quote the previous posts that relate to me as well but it would all be one huge quote.

I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone in this situation, it is nice to know that I am not the only one living with this issue too.

ProudDadOfTwo

[Cipher13]

So may other people have some of the same issues. I think this dissease has so many similarities that it makes alot of the struggles each non deals with seem as real as there own. Now I have also seent the extreemes that i fortunalty don't have... . ie abuse. 

Its always nice to have support even from complete strangers...

Thank you

[SadWifeofBPD]

arguments and conversations have this issue as the casue of her not trusting me. (I can see her point). However when asked if this will ever be put aside if she can get past it she says she can not trust me

If porn was the definition of cheating and "not being able to trust a man" then no man could be trusted.    Nearly every man looks at porn at least occasionally.

It seems to me that your wife is using porn as a reason to not trust you, but the truth is even if there wasn't any porn, your wife would use something else as a reason... . perhaps claiming that she saw you "looking" at another woman or she knows that some woman at work is cute, etc.

The porn isn't the issue... . at all. 

BTW... . the second job isn't really an opportunity to cheat and your wife probably knows that.  After all, you could cheat with your first job.  More likely is that your second job takes time away from her.

[Cipher13]

BTW... . the second job isn't really an opportunity to cheat and your wife probably knows that.  After all, you could cheat with your first job.  More likely is that your second job takes time away from her.

So true. I knew that she wouldn't want me to have a second job. I knew she would have a problem and that not being able to spend time with her was goingto make her rethink the idea.  I didn't want it in the first place. I did it to try to prove a point that she didn't totally get.  I wanted her to see that I will do what ever I need to do to make sure finacially we can make things work out. I wanted her to see I will take a boring meaningless job ontop of my regualar job and not complain about it... . should have know those aren't what she would notice. She hates almost every jpb she has ever had. She is quitting a job that is practically beggin gher to stay and increased her almost $10k since she started last year.

The porn isn't the issue... . at all.

I agree that it is not. Its is however the situation that is "used" for the rages and the source of our turmoil.  Its mor eof a pawn now rather than a problem. In my mind anyway.  Hers its always the problem and always will be.

[Proud_Dad]

arguments and conversations have this issue as the casue of her not trusting me. (I can see her point). However when asked if this will ever be put aside if she can get past it she says she can not trust me

It seems to me that your wife is using porn as a reason to not trust you, but the truth is even if there wasn't any porn, your wife would use something else as a reason... . perhaps claiming that she saw you "looking" at another woman or she knows that some woman at work is cute, etc.

The porn isn't the issue... . at all. 

I could not agree with this any more than I do. Porn is not the issue, in my case as well it is merely the issue that allowed my fiancé to distrust me. It has snowballed out of control to the point where I am accused of being a pig/dog/pervert/creep/horrible person nearly EVERY time that we go out in public or see something on TV that reminds her of the subject.

I have always known that she is insecure and untrusting due to childhood trauma, but it has gotten out of control. I am painted black over the smallest things that I have no control over and have nothing to do with me or our situation, and it is wearing on me terribly.

I get the same responses from my fiancé that Cypher13 gets; she will never be able to trust me, she just wants a "normal" relationship, she is so hurt by what I have done to her, all of her insecurities are my fault... . etc. I am having SERIOUS second thoughts about marrying someone who sees me in this way.

Not trying to hijack your thread, I just feel like we are side by side in the same boat of crazy.

[Cipher13]

Not trying to hijack your thread, I just feel like we are side by side in the same boat of crazy.

Welcome aboard... . but it looks like its getting crowded in this boat. It feels liek the poor choices I made all be it not illegal just maybe not real moral in a holsome sor tof way seem to be the blite of my existance and what defines me as a husband. At least during arguments... .

I am having SERIOUS second thoughts about marrying someone who sees me in this way.

I won't answer this question for you but if i knew then (before I was married) what I know now (12 years later)  I would not.  I guess I had signs that should have warned me but I was ignornat of them and thought I knew better. But can't go back now. So I will try to make the best and if I can't... ?