I'm officially leaving

[coffeeaddict]

Ok everyone, I need some help/insight here,

       I am done with the marriage and will leave, but I need some help as to how and when so that I don't screw it up. In talking with some of you, it seems that I can't simple file and walk away peacefully. I wasn't going to divorce on "grounds" because, idk, sounds too complicated and messy; hard to prove.

       But I'm wondering if the only way I can leave is to file on grounds of "inhuman treatment" and perhaps (ironically) "abandonment". I KNOW my reality these past years. I know she's the one saying to leave, the one saying that "you don't have a spouse, you're not married" the one calling me gay, stupid, mocking me while in bed, destroying family keepsakes, never initiating sexual relations and always coming up with one more reason why not or saying I need to work harder to get back into her good graces, mocking my efforts to improve the marriage (I tried the "Love Dare" and she threw it back in my face and said I "didn't do it right", saying I'm spiritually dark, not a good father, not a good man, suggesting I sleep with my mom for money to pay off bills, calling me on many, many occasions a heartless, souless a+@a# in front of the kids... . - could go on and on. BUT, is this all considered enough for "grounds"? Do I have to be cruely beaten like a dog before I have a case? This is just nuts! HELP

[ForeverDad]

Do you need grounds to file for divorce?  How much would it help?  Many states are No Fault states.  However it might give you an edge, a local experienced attorney would be able to comment on local or state nuances.  If it were me, I'd do it.

Meanwhile, as preparation, I suggest you record some of the conflict if only to prove you're not the one misbehaving or acting unreasonably.  (In my case I did it to lessen the risk of arrest on false allegations, I saw recording as a form of insurance, my special Avoid Jail card.)  Although some states do restrict recording, (1) there are so many types of recording devices out there that enforcement is impractical and only a very few members have ever reported legal problems for doing so.  While it may or may not be admissible in court - and fr most of us it seldom is used in court - it may help the police, evaluators and other professionals to decide who is the one misbehaving and most important it will help us targets feel less vulnerable to have some evidence to back up what we say and report.

Also, make copies - or secure the originals - of as many documents as you can and keep them in a safe place your spouse can't guess, access or break into.  Think passports, birth certificates, SSN cards, licenses, account statements (or at least the company names and account numbers for later subpoena), deeds, titles, etc.  Very seldom can you 'force' compliance and disclosure later, better to quietly gather the information before separation if possible.  Don't forget the various emotionally connected items too, the photos, albums, videos and mementos that would likely disappear later, etc.  Don't worry if you take too much, you know that if court tells you to return some things, you would comply, however if your stbEx had possession, compliance and enforcement would be a very iffy situation.

[GaGrl]

You really will get a great deal of help from those who have experienced separation and divorce from a pwPD on the Legal Issues/Separation/Divorce board.

I hate to say this, because it sounds crazy and petty (although that's the kind of behavior you end up experiencing with a pwPD), but even preparing a notebook telling her how to do all the tasks that need to be done could backfire on you -- she could use it to claim "Look at what he expects me to do that I never had to do before," and it could trigger a rage. Now that's not rational, we know -- she should have been taking on her share of the household responsibilities all along -- but if her thinking is skewed, she will see it as "proof" of your abandonment, your "cruel" behavior, your belief that she is incompetent, etc. etc. etc.  You might hold off and share after the separation, after she can accept it in more of the spirit in which you prepared it.

[marbleloser]

" Sorry if I come off a little frustrated, but how does one in my situation leave without it being considered "abandonment"? Surely there is some way to do it otherwise I'd be considered a prisioner!"

You don't. You stay in the home until you're either required to leave by court order,she's required to leave,or you stick it out during the divorce.It's a difficult thing to do,but it's doable.Many men/women before you have.

You stay for the kids if nothing else.They need a stable parent,right? If you leave,you'll be sending a message to the judge that your stbxw is perfectly capable of having sole custody of the kids and that you're interested more in yourself than your kids.

Appearances mean alot in court.It doesn't matter if you've been the greatest dad ever for years,if you walk away,you're abandoning them.

What if,during one of her tirades,you record it and call the police for domestic violence?You then ask the court for a protection from abuse order based on her antics while the children are around.Don't bait her into something like this,but if she's throwing things and yelling,you have a case for domestic abuse.You then serve her with divorce papers after she's removed from the home. You need a gameplan or else you'll be playing catch up during the entire divorce proceedings.

[Lucky Jim]

Hi Coffee, Divorce varies considerably from state to state and much of the commentary here may be inapplicable, depending on your jurisdiction.  My suggestion is for you to retain a divorce attorney who can walk you through the process in your particular court system.  I find your efforts so far quite reasonable so keep on your path.  You deserve to be happy.

Hang in there, Lucky Jim

[catnap]

As others have suggested, get a good handle on how divorce works in your area.  Some attorneys will do a free consultant, or a small fee for an 30 minute consult. 

Meanwhile, as preparation, I suggest you record some of the conflict if only to prove you're not the one misbehaving or acting unreasonably.  (In my case I did it to lessen the risk of arrest on false allegations, I saw recording as a form of insurance, my special Avoid Jail card.)  Although some states do restrict recording, (1) there are so many types of recording devices out there that enforcement is impractical and only a very few members have ever reported legal problems for doing so.  While it may or may not be admissible in court - and fr most of us it seldom is used in court - it may help the police, evaluators and other professionals to decide who is the one misbehaving and most important it will help us targets feel less vulnerable to have some evidence to back up what we say and report.

You mentioned that she would do her level best to have you arrested for false DV.  She might also try to accuse you of abusing the children.  She is already calling you a bad Dad in front of the children.  She is clearly not taking their feelings into account and a high percentage of pwBPD will use the kids to retaliate--either by making false allegations, through parental alienation syndrome (PAS), or blocking parenting time.

Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by Bill Eddy is a good resource.

Divorce is difficult under the best of circumstances. When your spouse has borderline personality disorder (BPD), narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), or is manipulative, divorcing can be especially complicated. While people with these tendencies may initially appear convincing and even charming to lawyers and judges, you know better—many of these “persuasive blamers” leverage false accusations, attempt to manipulate others, launch verbal and physical attacks, and do everything they can to get their way.

Splitting is your legal and psychological guide to safely navigating a high-conflict divorce from an unpredictable spouse. Written by Bill Eddy, a family lawyer, therapist, and divorce mediator, and Randi Kreger, coauthor of the BPD classic Stop Walking on Eggshells, this book includes all of the critical information you need to work through the process of divorce in an emotionally balanced, productive way.

Turn to this guide to help you:

    Predict what your spouse may do or say in court

    Take control of your case with assertiveness and strategic thinking

    Choose a lawyer who understands your case

    Learn how e-mails and social networking can be used against you

[livednlearned]

If she is a good mom and has BPD, she might be the first ever. Also, demeaning you in front of the kids? Not a good mother. As you get some distance and heal from the awful abuse you've endured, you may see her parenting differently. I agree with marbleloser that if you leave the kids behind, her L will treat it as abandonment (not abandonment of her, but of the kids). You could lose full custody when you have every right to have them at least 50/50.

I'm going to tell you what I did, in detail, but first, before I do that, please know that you will get better when you leave. Your thinking will change. You'll get healthier. And you don't want to do anything right now (while you're weak) that will narrow your chances to get a fair deal in court. Right now, you are thinking like someone who has been beaten down and a bad deal you make now could affect you for decades. Fine if you want to walk away, but do it with as much information from as many Ls as you can afford to consult with. I highly recommend you go see another L because whoever you're seeing is not looking out for you -- either that or you are hella stubborn. At least pay $50 or so to get a second consultation. Tell them your goal is to leave and you want to know what is fair in the eyes of the law. You want a relationship with your kids. Then decide what to do. A good L would read your plan and push back on you, and explain that you aren't taking care of yourself -- and isn't that what this chapter of your life is about? It is not uncommon for some Ls to escalate conflict and make things unnecessarily adversarial. But a good L will, at the very least, object to watching you disrespect yourself this way.

I had to leave secretly. I spent a year planning.

I consulted with two Ls, was in therapy (because someone needs to check your thinking if you're codependent), and had 3 friends who were exceptionally helpful.

Made plans with one of those friends to stay there if N/BPDx became violent. I had a key to her home.

I opened a separate bank account in my name only and began putting funds in it. I got a credit card in my name only.

Bought a pre-paid phone that I used only to talk to my L with. I suspected my ex of tracking me on my phone (which he did, through Google Latitude). I kept my safety phone outside, somewhere safe -- N/BPDx used to lock me out of the house.

I got a storage locker and began moving things there that I didn't want him to destroy. I also put extra clothes, important documents, anything I might need if I had to flee quickly.

I made a safety plan if something happened at night -- that's when things were worse. I also made a safety plan for day. Where I would go, what I would do first, etc.

I kept a log of everything that happened for 6 months, including the nights N/BPDx drank, what medication he took, how he behaved, dates/times when he raged, etc.

I knew my son was going to need therapy, so I got N/BPDx to agree to let him see a T prior to leaving. Admittedly, I used semi-false pretenses (as though I was the cause of S12's problems) to get N/BPDx to agree. Hugely important.

I hid a copy of keys to the house and car outside, as well as a small amount of cash and a credit card (N/BPDx was in the habit of hiding my purse and locking me out of the house).

I also talked to the family specialist at my son's school, and let her know that there was going to be a big transition at some point, and what resources were available for him.

I backed-up all files on my computer, put it all on an external hard drive, and removed anything I didn't want easily found (although N/BPDx has computer skills, and could retrieve that data if he needed. Nothing was too important, though).

I planned to move out while N/BPDx was at a conference out of town. My parents were flying out to help me move. N/BPDx became suspicious of me on a Friday and froze all my credit cards without telling me. One of the credit card companies alerted me.

I left work, went to pick up S12 from school, talked to him with the family specialist and told him calmly that my job was to keep him safe and I could not do that any longer. I took him to my friend's house, then went to the DV shelter to talk about a restraining order. Decided to not do that, and then went to the apartment I was going to rent to see if I could get in a week early. I used my new credit card to pay for the first month's rent, etc. so N/BPDx could not locate me through credit card transactions or bank account. I called the phone company and blocked access so he could not retrieve information about my calls from our bill, and I got a new phone. I called the police to get domestic assistance and had them stand by at the house while I gathered up some belongings for S12. They wouldn't let me take my dog  :'(  because she was considered marital property, but they did let me take my belongings and S12's. I also took half of our savings out of our joint account.

I contacted N/BPDx that night, per my L's advice, to tell him that I was ending the marriage, that S12 was safe with me, and that he could talk to S12, but that we would not be disclosing where we lived. Two weeks after I left, I rented a moving truck. While N/BPDx was at work, I went back into the home and took about 1/4 of the furniture, all of S12's belongings, anything that was mine going into the marriage, the marital computer, and I took my dog.

There was no punishment for doing this -- it's so standard that the moving guys knew exactly what I was doing. It just worked out in the financial settlement.

There's a few more details that are probably more specific to my case, but that's the gist. I really hope you have a therapist, or get one. No one should do this kind of thing alone. You need an angel on your shoulder.

I don't need to wish you the best, because I know it's coming. Leaving that environment was an eye-opener to growth and strength I didn't even know was possible.







I

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, Coffee,

Almost everything you mentioned as having happened in your marriage happened in my marriage, too, in slightly different form, so you are not alone, believe me.  It takes a toll on one's self-esteem, I know.  I thought I was strong enough and resilient enough, and dedicated enough, to weather the BPD storm, but eventually I collapsed under the weight of the stress.   There's nothing valiant about destroying oneself, I learned, so I think you're doing the right thing for yourself and your children.  Lucky Jim

[atcrossroads]

Livednlearned - what an amazing and inspiring story!  Thank you for sharing -- I think many of the finer details you thought of will be a huge help to others.  WAY TO GO!   

[Forward2free]

Coffee - it's all about planning, you are right. It took me about 3 years to exit properly, and the anger and destruction that I had to fight was overwhelming and at times, life threatening.

Even though BPD/Nxh had left the marital home and demanded divorce for around 4 years, citing that we were no longer married according to him anyway, having new partners and abandoning us for weeks at a time, when I handed him the divorce papers that he had signed willingly the night before, he went crazy.

You are right to be cautious and calculated about your departure. I wish I had more of a record of abuse. Until things went crazy, I had never called the police and just cleaned up the mess and got things back to normal each time. He tried to point the finger at me and alleged that I was alienating him from the kids, had ruined his life and his career, stalked and attacked his girlfriend, and was enough to have me arrested etc etc. I had recorded conversations and emails so I was not charged, but it was enough to shake me to my core.

In the end, I realised I couldn't play 'nice' any longer. It became totally about protecting me and the kids and I learnt (the hard way) that his responses and actions were his to own, and I could only control myself and my actions. I cancelled his access to my bank account and had the locks changed to the house, but he broke in anyway, repeatedly.

As LnL said, you should get your ducks in order and try to cover as many bases as possible.

It is true that when you are a battered partner, be it male or female, you have been conditioned over many years to take less than you deserve to keep the peace and probably because your self esteem is so low that you don't think you deserve any better? Please seek further legal advice about property, shared or full custody, child support payments and marital debt. Anything you do to help her will most likely not be received in the genuine way it was intended and is most likely not fair anyway.

You can't treat this as a standard divorce with amicable arrangements, it won't happen. There is no way to prevent the fall out and no way to predict the behaviors with certainty.

Don't worry about the time it takes to leave properly, keep focused on the end-point and the extra few months will not even be noticed when you've made it. This is a time when the grass truly is greener on the other side 

[eeyore]

Livednlearned, yes thank you for sharing.  I can see the benefit of planning carefully and putting your safety first.  If you don't mind my asking but I see a lot of controlling behavior that your now ex was trying to keep you trapped in the abuse. Is that a correct interpretation?  And how did you break yourself free from your own negative thinking to become healthier?

[coffeeaddict]

Kormila and all,

      First of all, a big thank you for all your help and insights. Keep them coming! I do want to respond to some of your concerns about my desire to just "lose everything" and walk away. I do see how it could be seen as me being "beaten down" and not feeling like I desire any better. But to me, it has more to do with the following:

        1. I'm not losing anything that isn't already dead or dying anyway.

        2. I (at this point after years of decline) don't have anything anyway that

            Is worth fighting for.

        3. 95% of everything "we" have is really more hers anyway or is

            So associated with her that I wouldn't want it.

        4. I genuinely WANT to make this as easy as possible for her, both in terms

            Finances and possessions. Money that is given even before the

            Court orders it is so that they can keep living. I don't really care

            It "doesn't count" or will be mocked by her, or that... . etc. Bottomline

            Is that I have been the breadwinner for the home and I have a

            Personal responsibility to do what I can until she gets on her feet

            And more permanent $ support arrangements are made. Money is

            Money and she'll need it to support her and the kids.

So don't worry guys, my self esteem is fully intact (which is why I now have the courage to leave). As Dory from "Finding Nemo" would say, "it's time to let go!"

[livednlearned]

Livednlearned, yes thank you for sharing.  I can see the benefit of planning carefully and putting your safety first.  If you don't mind my asking but I see a lot of controlling behavior that your now ex was trying to keep you trapped in the abuse. Is that a correct interpretation?  And how did you break yourself free from your own negative thinking to become healthier?

Do you mean controlling behavior in terms of how I planned to leave?

[livednlearned]

Livednlearned, yes thank you for sharing.  I can see the benefit of planning carefully and putting your safety first.  If you don't mind my asking but I see a lot of controlling behavior that your now ex was trying to keep you trapped in the abuse. Is that a correct interpretation?  And how did you break yourself free from your own negative thinking to become healthier?

I think I understand your question. I did score a little higher on "demanding parent" than I'd like to admit in the Schema test, so you got me on that one.

Sometimes these kinds of questions (clashes?) happen on the family law board when threads start on other boards and get moved here. I can see how someone on Staying or Undecided might find my post controlling. People here on family law tend to have harrowing stories about BPD r/s, compounded by harrowing stories of family court. Until you have walked in these shoes, you cannot imagine the hell of court. Unless your circumstances have changed from what is posted on your profile, it looks like you haven't been through a BPD divorce with kids involved. If that's accurate, then it helps me understand better where you're coming from.

Coffeeaddict, so as not to hijack your post, back to you:

Where I'm coming from, court gives us no luxury to make codependent mistakes. Many of us are at our most fragile point right before we file -- we hire Ls with narcissistic traits, we let Ls push us around, we don't assert ourselves, we get intimidated by the system and are so worn down by abuse, we give up and give in. By the time many of us have started recovery and gotten our strength back, we have signed documents that can be next to impossible to undo. My son was suicidal at age 8 because of his N/BPD father's abuse. Those documents can be high stakes.

You have a journey ahead that people on the family law have particular experience with. In my experience, what comes during divorce is different than what came before. I ended up getting sole custody of my son and I attribute that ruling to the priceless support and advice that people here gave me, some of it very blunt, most of it highly strategic, all of it extremely helpful. I count this board as one of life's greatest blessings.

Big hug to you as you move forward with your life. Take care of yourself -- I'll be thinking about you. 

[eeyore]

Livednlearned, yes thank you for sharing.  I can see the benefit of planning carefully and putting your safety first.  If you don't mind my asking but I see a lot of controlling behavior that your now ex was trying to keep you trapped in the abuse. Is that a correct interpretation?  And how did you break yourself free from your own negative thinking to become healthier?

Do you mean controlling behavior in terms of how I planned to leave?

No, I meant your ex was a controlling person.  And he controlled you by making it difficult to leave peacefully or to make you stay in the abusive situation.  Many people suffer for years after such and experience and aren't able to change themselves.  How did you change yourself.  I realize you say you went to a T.  Many people go to a T for years with no real results.  So what is it that get a person to having positive change? 

[livednlearned]

Livednlearned, yes thank you for sharing.  I can see the benefit of planning carefully and putting your safety first.  If you don't mind my asking but I see a lot of controlling behavior that your now ex was trying to keep you trapped in the abuse. Is that a correct interpretation?  And how did you break yourself free from your own negative thinking to become healthier?

Do you mean controlling behavior in terms of how I planned to leave?

No, I meant your ex was a controlling person.  And he controlled you by making it difficult to leave peacefully or to make you stay in the abusive situation.  Many people suffer for years after such and experience and aren't able to change themselves.  How did you change yourself.  I realize you say you went to a T.  Many people go to a T for years with no real results.  So what is it that get a person to having positive change?  

Ok, oops! I misunderstood your post.  

Do you mean going to T while staying in the BPD r/s? Or after?

I don't really know what helps someone make a positive change.  

Leaving was the first step.

I was really, really motivated to help S12 become emotionally healthy. I had to figure that out for myself in order to model it for him.

I leaned so far into the pain I was horizontal.

Didn't get involved in a serious r/s for 2 years.

Had an excellent T who really pushed me. I did most everything she recommended I do, even though I hated it and it hurt.

I read books and tried things recommended, even if it was uncomfortable.

Looking back, one of the sneaky defenses I had is that I always believed no one really knew what I was going through. No one understood how hard it was to leave, or stay, or have a kid like mine, or have a family like mine, or have my challenges. Best thing I did was to take in the advice people gave me. They could see my situation way more clearly than I could.

We can be our own worst enemies.

[eeyore]

Had an excellent T who really pushed me. I did most everything she recommended I do, even though I hated it and it hurt.

I read books and tried things recommended, even if it was uncomfortable.

I agree we can be our own worst enemy.  Would you give a couple of examples of what you did that were so difficult for you? 

[Cmjo]

Leaving in secret can be done. And sometimes it is the only way.

For years we have screamed each other you get out, no you get out! But although the house is registered in my name for tax reasons, his father built it, and I felt he needed to stay there more than me... .

I tried to write that I wanted to separate but he would not talk about it just told me to f off and he hated me. World war three would have started in front of the children if I had given him warning.

I packed two suitcases and went to a hotel residence while the kids were at school. Picked them up and took them there that evening. And here I am 10 months later about to move to a real rented house. Still caught up in drama ... . see my other posts... . But I have my safe refuge and am slowly and surely detaching from him... . The kids see us both about half and half, and are starting to come to terms with it.

[livednlearned]

Had an excellent T who really pushed me. I did most everything she recommended I do, even though I hated it and it hurt.

I read books and tried things recommended, even if it was uncomfortable.

I agree we can be our own worst enemy.  Would you give a couple of examples of what you did that were so difficult for you? 

I lied to an old b/f that I reconnected with, and T said I needed to tell him I lied. So I did.

I am dating a guy now that has a different political orientation than me. To everyone but him, I expressed discomfort, so T said I needed to talk to new guy and tell him how I felt. Did that too.

I was upset with my L during mediation, but didn't confront her about it. T said I needed to tell her how I was feeling, so I did.

A lot of stuff she encouraged me to do was about stuff at work, with my supervisor.

Not sure what other Ts are like, but mine is very action-oriented. I hated the exercises she gave me -- so stressful. But I kept surviving them! And then feeling good after the ordeals were over, almost cathartic.

When you flee a r/s like many of us do, I think the growth is double-edged. I grew because I did something difficult -- I left a scary and abusive r/s. But in BPD r/s, you often don't get the growth that comes from asserting yourself directly. Everyone in my life agrees that I left the correct way, which was secretly. It would have been far more dangerous and legally difficult if I tipped my hand.

A lot of us don't end our r/s being able to resolve them in healthy ways, so T kinda helped me with the stuff I hadn't healed.