How to start discussion on big decisions

[Chosen]

Things have been going great for the past 2.5 months- "great" as in things are almost like normal.  No major episodes, once or twice when I wasn't on my top behaviour and he didn't lecture me or get angry.

As you may have experienced, many pwBPDs have problems making decisions, and my uBPDh is definitely one of them.  I don't think he ever knows what he wants.  While it's ok for stuff like having a meal, when it comes to the big things in life, it can get frustrating.

We got married 1.5 years ago, and before marriage, we kind of discussed children, and "decided" it will be a while before we have them, and even so we won't be pushing to have kids.  H loves children but already says he doesn't need to have kids of his own, while I don't like children but I've always thought I would have them one day (i.e. I don't see having kids as a "fun" thing but it's a stage I'd like to go through).

But these days, whenever I bring up the issue (not that I want one now), he will either say he doesn't want kids (definitely), I won't be a good mum (and some days he says I will be a great mum), but sometimes he will say stuff to me which seems like he's thinking of a future with kids.

Problem is, I know that asking him straight out won’t achieve anything, because he will either give a joke answer or his answer changes from time to time.  But I know there will be a day when I need some answers, and even though I’m young, a woman cannot wait forever.  Any tips on trying to understand where he stands, or having an honest discussion so that at least I know what he’s thinking?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[eeyore]

if the pwBPD is born with the condition, would you be comfortable with a BPD child and husbband?  Just asking because 1/2 of that child comes from your H  who currently is your pwBPD? 

[Mike76]

Choosen... .For some reason this aspect of BPD confuses me more than any other.

We happened to have a MC session tonight, I brought I how it is next to impossible for me to start or share verbally in a conversion\discussion.

I asked, and even after the MC reworded the question 3 different ways I got the same answer 

"Can you schedule time to allow you talk?"  My wife would just say " nope, I do not have the time"

the MC said  "what about Saturday afternoons?",  again my wife said "I have too many projects"

The conversation then went by the MC,   "What about just allowing him to talk, even if you tune him out, you can take in what you can or block out every word he says.  This would be a start in allowing him to communicate"  My wife said "I do not know if it was possible"

The conversation then went... .

the MC said "if he a bad day of work, can you let him share"... .  again my wife said "No I can't"

The MC knows of the BPD.   

I can understand some of BPD, but the unwillingness for the NON to ever communicate blows my mind. 

[Chosen]

Obviously there's lot to think about, and even if he wants kids I'm not saying we'll definitely go ahead, but I don't think it's a condition that is completely heriditary; many people may have that tendency but it depends on how the kid (my H) was raised too.  

I know how a lot of people say "IF (because he's undx, who knows) he's BPD, then you should not have kids with him", but then there are also loads who say we must run as well, just leave them.  And many of us didn't, so we have a Staying board.  Tbh, he's very high-functioning and will not have problems caring for a child, so I'm not worried about that.  But obviously I have reservations on whether having a child will cause him to paint me black more (when he sees how inadequate I am, etc.), and whether that is good for myself and a child.

But again, that's not the issue on hand.  The issue is to first have some understanding of where he stands.  For me, unless both parties are certain they would like a kid, they shouldn't have one.  So if he's undecided I'd rather not have... .but I just want to know.

[Chosen]

Mike76,

Argh, that sucks so bad.  That she is refusing to communicate with you, even if you're just the one doing that talking!  I hate it when they shut us out emotionally.

I suppose my H is a bit better when it comes to communicating with me (but say if we go to counselling or just talk with another party, he will not say anything, and will take every "negative" thing I say as a personal attack).  Problem is, sometimes I think he avoids getting serious about anything by using humour.  Like sometimes when I ask him about kids, he will say ":)o you really want your kids to look like us... .?"  And sometimes he will talk about stuff he would like his future kid to do.  So you never know when to take him seriously, if ever.   

[Grey Kitty]

Chosen, I hear two things from you:

1. Your H says he doesn't want children, but says other things that are seem inconsistent. And he can be all over the map depending on his mood.

2. You are somewhat conflicted yourself about whether you want children.

My thought is that having a difficult discussion with your H when you don't even know what you want sounds like the wrong battle to choose.

So I've got a couple questions for you:

1. Do you want to have children or not? Honest answers can be yes, no, or maybe.

2. If yes or maybe, what do you think about raising them with your H?

Knowing what you want makes negotiating it with your H seem much more productive.

[eeyore]

If You want children then it doesn't mean you have to have a husband or a man for child rearing.  There are lots of single parent households.  Do you accept 100% responsibility for your child and accept that you could raise your child without a husband or fatherly support ? 

Unspecific to you, unspecific to BPD, I know many women who want a dream.  They want to meet a guy, get married, and have children.   The women want an equal partner for child rearing if not to be a SAHM.  If that's what they want then women need to discuss this and have an understanding of expectations while dating and before marriage.  I have seen so many that think their guys will come around with time.  Then they are disappointed when the guy doesn't step up to her dream. Couples who always wanted children have a difficult time with their relationships as life can just be hard all by itself.  More often it's the guy capitulates and the couple get pregnant and the husband doesn't step up to the child rearing part to her satisfaction.

The other issue is, If your husband displays BPD characteristics towards you he will certainly present those characteristics to your children.  So I agree environment does help/hinder/play a role in the development of BPD.  And someone doesn't have to be BPD to be dysfunctional in a relationship.

When I read your post I see high probability for the potential of the unhappy scenario.  If you can't even have a good discussion with him about having children how to you expect to make good parenting decisions with him?  And if he's says he doesn't think you would be a good mother then I'd weigh that fact heavily for the probability of success with child rearing with him.

I have a friend who lived in my neighborhood who wanted children and was single when she got pregnant in 1996.  She accepted she didn't need a man to be a family but having a child was important to her.  If she was a single Mom for her whole life she was ok with it but she wasn't going to wait to see if a man would step up as she understood her biological clock.  To her that was healthier than trapping a guy into fatherhood and then having to live in an unhappy relationship for the sake of getting pregnant.  Ended up she met and married a single father with 100% custody of his bio son. 

Really I don't think it's a discussion to have with your husband.  You really need to make decisions for yourself.  How will you raise a child knowing you will get the same wishy washy results from him when important discussions are needed to resolve child rearing and parenting?  How will you deal with his BPD behavior if it is towards your child?  If you figure out you really do want children is he the kind of man that will be a good father that you want to have children with as this is a lifetime commitment.

I read a statistic that many dogs that are brought into animal shelters are brought in because the owners can't deal with the behavioral problems.  Those behavioral problems are due to the owners inability.  Sadly many dogs are euthanised because people aren't capable of caring and training a dog.  They underestimate what it takes to raise a puppy to become a well behaved dog.  So my point is don't underestimate what YOU will have to do if YOU decide to have a child.  You could be doing it ALL by yourself. 

[daylily]

Hi Chosen,

I agree with Grey Kitty that you need to figure out what you want before you talk to your H about this issue.  I've observed from your posts that your H is simiilar to mine in many ways, and mine is generally a good father.  However, that being said, it's also a huge challenge raising kids with a pwBPD.  It becomes even more important to diminish conflict and at the same time, it's harder to do it because there are so many responsibilities to take care of and H likely won't contribute as much as you'd like.  Not to mention, the sleep deprivation and stress of having a family can make it harder to be "on your game" with H and you're more likely to be triggered.

I think maybe the issues for you to ponder are: (1) do you want kids at all?  (2) are you committed to staying with H because divorce becomes immensely more complicated once you have children?  (3) have you worked on yourself to the point that you feel comfortable enough in your own skin to not be triggered, even in times of stress?  I think if I had it to do over again, I'd get myself completely healthy before having kids with H. 

All of that being said, being a mother is the most beautiful thing that has ever happened to me.  It's this giant package of joy, satisfaction, beauty, and vulnerability that is like nothing else.  We as nons are in a more important position than any other parent, in my opinion.  We alone must protect and nurture our children when our partners can't.  It's hard to be up to that challenge sometimes.

Good luck!

  Daylily

[froggy]

Chosen

Just a heads up... my uBPDh got much worse after we had children.

He did not share much responsibility in taking care of them and was quite resentful of the time it took away from him.

He was easily frustrated with them... .and still is.

Refers to them as 'your' kids when they have done something to anoy him.

HE wanted kids as soon as we got married... (didn't have the fist one till 6 years later) feel like I was a single single parent for the most part. .but but always having to do damage control... .I've apologized to them many times when when he's had a melt down and and everyone is in tears... .I've always tried to compensate. .but there is still damage.

He emotionally he IS a child and you feel like your parenting him too.

If  I had it to do over... I would not have had children with him.