Damned if you do/don't...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I was talking with a friend tonight about my BPD ex.

I remembered the old Groucho Marx quote about how "I wouldn't want to be in any club that would have me as a member."

This concept reminded me of something I saw in my BPD ex, a sort of Catch-22 he created.

Specifically, I felt like I couldn't win because the abandonment fears and engulfment fears made it impossible to win. He was terrified he was unlovable, I think, but this became a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby he'd sabotage relationships with an idea something like "I don't want to be with anyone who wants to be with me."

I would demonstrate my love in huge ways (including moving to his country) to prove I wasn't going to leave him or abandon him. But I couldn't win, because then the engulfment fears would kick in, "I don't want to be with someone whose love is that intense/clingy/desperate." And yet he's the one who, basically, set things up so that such intensity was required!

It was like we was a mechanical bull, bucking and shaking to try to "test" your love, trying to throw you off by sabotaging the relationship to see if you'd still love him in spite of his crap. But then, when I DID in fact hold on tight enough to not get thrown off (ie, loved him in spite of it all)... .then I was too intense or clingy! You couldn't win. Either you got shaken off and lost him, or you held on tight, in which case you "must be" too clingy and he'd pull away (and, therefore, also lost him)! In this logic there is no way to succeed with him, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. He tests and you leave... .it's proof you don't love him. Test and stay, and it's proof you love too desperately. He doesn't want anyone who would have him as a partner, basically. He is so ambivalent about himself that loving someone as broken as him is actually a disqualifying flaw in his eyes. But then how will he ever be with anyone?

In truth the pattern he'd run on is this: scare someone away with bad behavior, suddenly start desiring them again when they would show they were strong enough and willing to leave, chase them down begging for another chance, but then being disgusted at them if they did in fact give into "weakness" and agree to another chance, and so chase them off again. Repeat cycle endlessly.

Go away! No, don't leave me! Ew, anyone who would break down and give me another chance must be weak and desperate! Go away! Wait, you're really going this time? Don't go! Why would you come back? You must be pathetic or clingy or something. So go away! Etc ad infinitum.

[UmbrellaBoy]

I was talking with a friend tonight about my BPD ex.

I remembered the old Groucho Marx quote about how "I wouldn't want to be in any club that would have me as a member."

This concept reminded me of something I saw in my BPD ex, a sort of Catch-22 he created.

Specifically, I felt like I couldn't win because the abandonment fears and engulfment fears made it impossible to win. He was terrified he was unlovable, I think, but this became a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby he'd sabotage relationships with an idea something like "I don't want to be with anyone who wants to be with me."

I would demonstrate my love in huge ways (including moving to his country) to prove I wasn't going to leave him or abandon him. But I couldn't win, because then the engulfment fears would kick in, "I don't want to be with someone whose love is that intense/clingy/desperate." And yet he's the one who, basically, set things up so that such intensity was required!

It was like we was a mechanical bull, bucking and shaking to try to "test" your love, trying to throw you off by sabotaging the relationship to see if you'd still love him in spite of his crap. But then, when I DID in fact hold on tight enough to not get thrown off (ie, loved him in spite of it all)... .then I was too intense or clingy! You couldn't win. Either you got shaken off and lost him, or you held on tight, in which case you "must be" too clingy and he'd pull away (and, therefore, also lost him)! In this logic there is no way to succeed with him, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. He tests and you leave... .it's proof you don't love him. Test and stay, and it's proof you love too desperately. He doesn't want anyone who would have him as a partner, basically. He is so ambivalent about himself that loving someone as broken as him is actually a disqualifying flaw in his eyes. But then how will he ever be with anyone?

In truth the pattern he'd run on is this: scare someone away with bad behavior, suddenly start desiring them again when they would show they were strong enough and willing to leave, chase them down begging for another chance, but then being disgusted at them if they did in fact give into "weakness" and agree to another chance, and so chase them off again. Repeat cycle endlessly.

Go away! No, don't leave me! Ew, anyone who would break down and give me another chance must be weak and desperate! Go away! Wait, you're really going this time? Don't go! Why would you come back? You must be pathetic or clingy or something. So go away! Etc ad infinitum.

[Ironmanrises]

Quite simply... .

Hell on earth.

[UmbrellaBoy]

Yup.

Basically he set up an impossible test.

He wanted someone who wouldn't love him "too much." Not loving too much meant being the sort of person who was detached and independent and self-respecting enough to walk away from the relationship "if" he were wishy-washy.

However, that was his problem: he could only know for sure you "weren't clingy" by actually testing. By actually trying to drive you away. However, therein lies the catch-22, as the very "test" of clinginess itself only has two outcomes: either finding out the person is, in fact, desirable (but then they're gone! This happened with one ex he still pined for who is never coming back). Or, the person sticks around in spite of the crap (in which case they're clingy or desperate and so undesirable or engulfing).

So you can't win. Walk away in spite of the crap and maybe he'll desire you (but, by definition, you'll be gone already, so it won't do you much good). Cave to the frantic efforts to avoid this abandonment and you are too much of a pushover or suffocating or spineless.

[DragoN]

He wanted someone who wouldn't love him "too much." Not loving too much meant being the sort of person who was detached and independent and self-respecting enough to walk away from the relationship "if" he were wishy-washy.

However, that was his problem: he could only know for sure you "weren't clingy" by actually testing. By actually trying to drive you away. However, therein lies the catch-22, as the very "test" of clinginess itself only has two outcomes: either finding out the person is, in fact, desirable (but then they're gone! This happened with one ex he still pined for who is never coming back). Or, the person sticks around in spite of the crap (in which case they're clingy or desperate and so undesirable or engulfing).

Yup... .and if you switch that around. You become the sun, he a meteor in orbit. He can do whatever he wants, leave or stay. Scheisse egal.

[Ironmanrises]

That is... .

I hate you... .Dont leave me.

The ever... .

Cruel... .

And... .

Sad... .

Paradox of trying to love... .

The pwBPD.

That test you mention... .

I suffered the same... .

With mine.

There is no... .

Winning... .

That test... .

At the end.

I love you.

I dont love you.

Go away.

Come back.

Our destruction... .

Is in the pause... .

Between... .

I love you... .

And... .(our destruction)

I dont love you... .

And... .(our destruction)

Come back... .

And... .(our destruction)

Go away.

[thisyoungdad]

Just described my life, even more pronounced the past 2 months. Damned if I do, damned if I don't... .my life has been especially hellish because I also have to parent with this.